[Condenser] Show Payouts In SBD and STEEM as well as other changes
STEEM? SBD? What's that?
Hopefully by now you have at least a fair understanding of what STEEM and SBD are. If you do not, however, there is no need to worry. When a post is made on SteemIt, there is a displayed payout amount represented in dollars ($USD).
Example From SteemIt.com
Example From SteemLiberator
If you take a look at the screenshots above, you will see that SBD pays out 50/50 unless the author chooses otherwise. Due to this, a $100 post actually pays out 50 SBD and $50/STEEM-Price STEEM. If we say STEEM is worth $5, then this post would receive 50 SBD and 10 STEEM.
Now, SBD should be around $1 in value. However, it has been hit by several ways of trading pumps and is valued at ~$7.25 at time of writing.
Using our example above with the $100 post, the value of the SBD would be $362.50 and the value of the STEEM would be $50. The total post value would be $452.50.
You read that right ... a $100 post with STEEM at $5 and SBD at $7.25 is actually worth $452.50
Due to these reasons ...
... I believe removing the $ value from the post is wise.
Perhaps putting the post values behind a drop down, while showing more financial information, will help encourage users to look at the posts for their content instead of just how much they are valued at!
Technical Details
Something you may not know about Steem is that when a post is paid out, the conversion factor is determined from the average Steem price throughout the payout period of the post (currently 7 days). What this means for developers is that we need to maintain a living history of the Steem rates to properly show value of posts made at a given time.
To solve this, I opted to use a local MongoDB microservice that keeps a historical record of all filled conversion requests. These operations are used to get a close estimate of what the STEEM rate would have been when the post received payout.
Feel free to visit https://condenser.steemliberator.com to see it in action
Links
Posted on Utopian.io - Rewarding Open Source Contributors
I plan on playing around with the design to make it feel good on desktop + mobile. For now I decided to put the payouts under the dropdown, but I do not think it will stay that way.
The main change here is to actually display the proper amount of crypto being paid out for a post
Glad to see some people actually understand how the reward system works.
Last month, I had an argument with someone (not mentioning names) running a vote bot, they were basing their calculations on a 75/25 reward system for some strange reason. Users of the bot were barely breaking even due to his lack of understanding of numbers.
I'm still not sure if they got it right, as on the bot tracker page their advert states that their votes give 135% profit, highly unlikely unless they're making losses.
I think one day it will rise up to $100.
I appreciate your comments @netuoso
This is great to see, glad to see the community stepping up. I switched over to the site to make this comment and will likely continue to use it. Great work @netuoso, please keep it up and the community will continue to support you.
Agree man !
That was a very good idea and i have found it useful so a lot credit for @netuoso. We actually need him to continue presenting us even better and better solutions
To be precise 25% of the payout goes to curation. If we use the same example of a post paying the equivalent of 100 SBD (per the price feed) at $5 Steem then the payout would be:
The total payout would be in USD 25.00 + 37.50 + 271.875 = 334.375 USD (if SBD = 7.25 USD). Of those $309.375 would go to the author and $25 to curators.
It would be necessary to clear up if we are referring to a post with a pending payout, or one that has already been paid out.
A post with pending payout will include the curator amount.
A post with past payouts will not; the author payout and the curator payout are clearly separated.
So yes, your point is true for a post pending payout but not for one with past payout. In my example I was using a post that had paid out $100 and you viewed that by clicking the dropdown and checking author rewards.
For example:
A paid out post makes it clear what the author payout was (even though the value is wrong)
The pending payout includes the curators payout
(there was another commenter that brought this up and I said i will probably show the curator/author split even on pending posts)
Splitting the pending curator payout from the pending author payout is on my to-do list.
Thanks for clarifying. Either way the topic of your post is on point...Condenser does not reflect the true value of a post.
It seems to me then we can switch to the other site to try it out. I popped over to condenser.lberator.com and found it rather annoying having to click on the payout drop down. Maybe I would benefit from feeling less envy. Software is like a pair of shoes. They may seem comfortable at first but you really have to try them out and wear them in the store until the sales person wants to kill you to be sure.
@netuso "You read that right ... a $100 post with STEEM at $5 and SBD at $7.25 is actually worth $452.50"
Dude, I was wondering about this! I recently got a payout, and then had roughly about 60 SBD, I then went to the market and bought some STEEM . My idea behind it, was to power up into steem power, is that correct? My question is, if the price of Steem comes down, and you buy low, is that good? Get more Steem and Power up and as the price rises so does your steem power or is that a negative? I have some questions in regard to that if someone or maybe @netuoso can break down for me, I would gladly appreciate that.
My account value was close to 150.00 after buying the STEEM at roughly .62xxxxxx on the Market here on steemit, it went up to 200+. I am a little confused as to why it didnt show that before as all I did was buy Steem with my SBD here on the market.
Thanks again for this breakdown by the way!
Right now, condenser is displaying SBD value as if it were $1.
When you receive SBD and go buy Steem with it, your value goes up so much because it shows the value of Steem according to 3.5 day Steem average.
For example, if SBD is $10 and Steem is $5. If you have 10 SBD only in your account the value will show as $10.
Of course, 10 SBD would really be worth $100. If you go buy Steem with that SBD, you would get 20 Steem. This is because SBD is worth twice as much as Steem (in this example)
Now your account will show a value of about $100 because you have Steem instead of SBD.
Despite not showing the right value SBD is worth more than Steem. SBD is a debt asset that is supposed to be pegged around $1. Due to this, I would not recommend buying SBD to speculate on the price.
But I definitely recommend buying Steem with SBD while the SBD price is high. SBD should return to $1 eventually if the system works as intended.
If SBD should return to $1 then maybe we should leave the payout displays as they are?
Well we can currently see the confusion that creates.
DUde wow your ide ais so important right now, we need to start changing teh way we show the rewards so peopel can see exactly how much mre theyre getting apid, because right nwo its lik a secret society of peop who arei the know, getting all the rewards, when newcomers are not beingtold outrght how much money they could be getting paid... BUT maybeits ok like that; we really DO deserve this bonus! its ok I will welcome these nw changesyou propose. they are EXTREMELY fair an accurate,a nd why NOT show the ACCURATE price instead of this much smalle rprice? yes you are right we should just show people the real SBD and SP price, and maybe show some Dollar values but get them more accurate.... wow this is such a godoidea
If i was working at Steemit Inc I would consider delegating you a Lot of extra Steempower you do REALLY good work man...
Youre really doing something obvious here by making a mockup of what it should look like.... Good job visualizing the future man! I cannot wait to see more amazing projects from you I JUST WISH I had the Money to PAY you to get some new projects done I ave planned! i bet you have the network of peope who could get my new steem projects off the ground... honesty they are all no brinaer ideas that think of themselves so I hope to see them soon!
(So your post says this is from SteemLibrator ... is that a real website?)
But anyway man WOW your idea here is SO nice GOOD job getting this Mockup man! Here is a nice animated GIF as a Thank you!
Thanks for your kind words, but a mockup implies it isnt functional.
https://condenser.steemliberator.com
The code is live
Yes, I agree, it does create confusion.
Thank you again for that breakdown, although @bbrewer, made it a little confusing haha j/k but I understand now 100%! If It wasn't for this post, I would still be scratching my head. lol
I will continue to buy STEEM with my SBD! Thanks again! #YOUVEGOTMYFOLLOW! @netuoso
good comment
I have been an advocate for keeping potential $ rewards displayed on active posts as a marketing tool for a long time but I have been recently coming to the idea that it may be more detrimental than beneficial, as others have said before.
The UI of Condenser needs to do a better job of conveying a post's potential payout as something less solid, more ephemeral, less belonging to the user before it's actually paid out.
The way it is and has been since almost the beginning has contributed to user confusion.
Steem's killer app, or sweetest honey to attract more users, is obviously the post rewards. But at this point I think user growth from word of mouth is much bigger than someone stumbling here and seeing $ values on active posts.
Now does that $100 figure include the curation payments the author never sees?
No, the example $100 I used was for a post that had paid out and $100 was displayed for the "author rewards"
Keep in mind, if you self vote your posts you earn some of the curation, so the value would be even higher.
As I (mis)understand it, presently on steemit.com when a post reward is displayed it includes the curation rewards. That leaves $25 to the curators, $37.50 is given as SBD as it is calculated at 1:1 and the remaining $37.50 is rewarded as Steem.
If I understand you correctly, with these changes applied, the reward displayed would be 37.50/37.50. Is that right?
Just checked this out but it keeps saying undefined for the value of steem. Why is this??
I think that might be due to the fact that if there is not enough data to determine the average Steem rate the fallback is used. The fallback is pulled from the Steem API using https://api.steemit.com
It is possible the server had issues at that time. Everything seems to be in working order right now.
Thanks man, but i think the problem is from network availability in my environment.
I still keep seeing this,
I wish someone can help me check it so i know what I'm earning.
Hi @netuoso ! Thanks for the info..i remember one month ago i was thinking "hey, my article made 2.30$ in 3 hours time..that's a good start but i was hoping for more:)" and when talking to my friend he told me "those are SBD dollars and one has value of almost 8 american dollars now"..i was like " YOU'RE SERIOUS?? MY POST JUST MADE ALMOST 20$?? THAT'S INCREDIBLE" but i didn't know about the sp/sbd dividing and the curation rewards, i found out after a week and half:D
There is no "should" in an open market. SBD is trading as a regular crypto token now and market forces are deciding its value. Saying it "should" be capped at $1 US Dollar is going against free market behaviors. Please don't do that. :)
@netuoso your analysis is absolutely right. "You read that right ... a $100 post with STEEM at $5 and SBD at $7.25 is actually worth $452.50"
Steemit proves very helpful for many people, in fact, for students who are getting reward through this prestigious platform for living a better life.
Yes, noobs are having a very hard understanding how the steem economy works. Ive always thought that the estimated value for everything, posts, wallet, upvotes should be in real time value based of exchanges.
Using the average price gives us protection from the volatility. Using the live price (not averaged) means that if your post pays out at $4.00 per Steem today when yesterday it was at $5.50 and tomorrow it is at $6.00 you had really unlucky timing. People would complain big time about this even if sometimes their posts paid out at the higher price.
You forget that most posts payout with SBD as well as Steem. Ignoring that is the reason the payouts are way off in my opinion
I am not ignoring that. I think the high price of SBD is a major bonus and makes me and others very happy. I am afraid that if the higher price of SBD is factored into the displays people will adjust their upvotes down because they will realize how much it is worth and want to conserve their voting power. My point about protection from volatility stands in regards to both Steem a SBD.
Let's hope you are wrong.
Yeah, I hope so. You know there are people that a re a lot smarter than me working on this stuff, you and @netuoso included. I may come around to new ways of displaying payouts after all.
Aww. Another question answered! I was recently wondering if the payouts were at the rate of steem on the date of payout or if they were retro back to rates at which they were upvoted. Thanks!
This article was so helpful to me in so many ways! It really helped me understand the payout of STEEMIT so much more and gave me ideas on how I can effectively use this platform. Thank you for taking the time to explain this so thoroughly!
Very cool stuff ! I've wanted to have that for some time now. Are you sure about the conversions ? some other websites like steem.rocks give a way more conservative estimate.
edit : I realized that it shows the total rewards not the rewards that the author gets.
Although I kinda dislike that you have to click on "reward" to get the value, it would be better to just set the price clickable and then if you click on it you get the sbd/steem value no ?
Part of the idea was to remove the intense reliance on price when voting a post. Vote for content, not for curation rewards.
If I do return the payout amounts, it will at least show the proper amount of USD value, not some horribly incorrect version that is assuming SBD is $1 as designed
This is brilliant ,is there a chance it will be considered by the steemit front end and show up like what you did in steemliberator ?
Use the other site. It is the same blockchain.
Well that’s good information because I was a bit confused, thanks mike
I have always been wondering why the push of SBD. Is in't the case that when the price is like now, inflation of it will increase because everybody opts for the 50-50 option?
Inflation of SBD also increases rapidly as the price of Steem rises, that’s why Steem and SBD rising in tandem also has weak fundamentals.
Since SBD is the blockchain issuing an IOU for $1 worth of Steem, the blockchain always calculates its value at $1. Therefore the ratio of SBD to Steem paid out on a 50/50 post is directly related to the price of Steem. If Steem is at $5, a $50 payout will give 5 Steem and 25 SBD, a 5:1 ratio. If Steem climbs to $25, a $50 payout will yield 1 Steem and 25 SBD; a 25:1 ratio!
I think those holding SBD for speculation will be hurt. Steem has more utility and a sharp rise in price could really inflate and devalue SBD back in the direction of $1.
Thank you for this explanation. What I am still missing is how exactly the value of a vote is being calculated. I can see that with the Steem price rising, vote values increase. This makes sense as the total number of newly issued Steem is not changing. Does this move linear with the Steem price? So, if my vote is 1$ today at Steem at 4 USD, does it increase to 10$ with Steem at 40 USD. If that would be the case, the number of SBD for 1 vote would increase from 0.5 SBD to 5 SBD.
I am speculating here, I really do not know the answer, but I think it would be interesting to understand the full picture.
BTW, I wish my vote was worth 1 USD ;-)
That raises an interesting question. Mine is supposedly 0.12 SBD but what is that in USD really?
I think the formula goes like this:
Vote value in USD = (Value in $ / 2) + (Value in $ / 2)*SBD price in USD
So at the moment 1 $ = 0.5 + 0.5*7. = 4 USD.
Correct me if I am wrong.
From this value you have to deduct curation by the way.
Your welcome, and basically... yes, vote value will increase or decrease in step with changes in Steem value and your understanding of how that would increase the SBD rewards is correct.
The only thing to note is that no ones votes have a “set” value. Voting steers the reward pool, so your votes are always influenced by what everyone else is doing! For instance, if the weekly rewards pool was $100,000 and for some bizarre reason no one voted but you... you would have a $100,000 vote!
If many people who have been inactive start voting you can see your vote value decrease. If whales abstain from voting or are embroiled in a major flag war you can see your vote value increase... all with no change in the underlying Steem value.
Got it, thank you very much. But does the SBD price also have an influence on the vote value? Or is all that matters the steem inflation, while SBD inflation is a separete account? Sorry for keeping asking ;-.)
Lets say there is a total reward pool of 100,000 Steem and the Steem Price is at 4 USD. What would the total vote value be in this scenario. Doing a reverse calculation I would guess that it could look like this:
The 100,000 Steem will be used for 50% of the author rewards value (75% of the vote value) and for 100% of the curation rewards value. So for a 1$ vote, 0,375 USD worth of Steem plus 0,25 USD worth of Steem for curation would be issued. So in total 0,625 USD in Steem. At 4 USD per Steem this would equal 0,15625 new Steem.
Considering that we have assumed total Steem available for votes is 100,000, this would mean that the the total vote value available for Steem would 640,000. Considering that Steem amounts for 62.5% of the total rewards, the total vote value might be around 1.024m (640,000 / 0,625).
This is purely based on what I think it would make sense to calculate it in order to make sure that the right amount of Steem is issued. It could be completely wrong, I simply do not know it but I would be highly interested if this goes in the right direction. And srry again for asking, but I think it might be interesting also for others.
Very well put
We can expect the changes.
This whey will be much better!
Been finding a hard time to understand it all.
But now I found the answer. Thought sbd keep changing in values nowadays. Coz last week I checked when it was $11.5.
Yes it was $11.5 but since this week, it's been running down and up. And been checking when it was $5,$6,$7 and as per now it's $7.16.
I think one day it will rise up to $100.
Holy crap. What exchange do you use?
Bitfinex
I'm super new here. I had 8 days at least and this is a great information, is perfect because until now I didn't understand the difference between SBD and SDU. So, now your post was really useful for me, many thanks for what you do.
I have been here for over a year and I don't know what a SDU is.
This is a very informative post! Keep it up! thank you for sharing.
** This is a HUMAN service, no bots! :) **
Esteem change to sbd ..Resteemit done.
Well reading all the comments and replies from this wonderful people,
There are people who say that cryptocurrencies do not work because they lose a lot of money, but as I say, whoever does not risk does not win
nice..
I am new to the community, and these issues still confuse me = (I hope to continue reading this type of post to understand these issues well!
Nice post...
Thank for sharing information 👍
Steemit.com is a very good alternative to other social media sites because it pays so handsome as well especially for the people like me who belong to third world countries like Pakistan.
Wow.. amazing post i.. Like it thanks for sharing this post best of luck..
I would agree 100 percent. This becomes even more convoluted when you include the fact that the amount changes based on market prices...for instance/
A post worth “$3.00” goes down to $2.96 when the market goes down ..
This makes it even more misleading and confusing considering that the post is paid out in two cryptocurrencies. Even if the post automatically converted it to actual USD based on market value of Steem and SBD- it would be more understandable.
I definitely think that this should be addressed.,great content.
this is very helpful, keep sharing.
That's cool. Makes it a lot simpler than doing the math every time to figure out how much the post is actually worth. Well done.
Someone might know something we don't. Still were there news I would expect a rise out of STEEM rather then it's pegged asset SBD. and it is great though but it's no use to new users they can't even make $1 in their own due to reputation and less followers.
Still great share @netuoso looking forward for more ☺
helpful post, carry on bro
I think a lot of the Steemian is confused in calculating the rewards he receives in a post. models from SteemLiberator are quite helpful and stay converted in accordance with certain currencies.
How helpful you are! I think you are doing a great job.Keep shairing and get support brother.....Thanks
Finally something that makes sense and removes all this reward confusion.
At least until the next hard fork and people contradict it . 😆
How about adding an S before $? E.g.: S$433. Then it is clear that not U.S. Dollar but SBD are used.
When not using SBD but S$, it is also clear that the result is the sum of SBD and converted STEEM.
Seriously speaking, many newbies here on steemit have been working hard to really understand how the steem economy works, u just broke down this thing. I used to have this misconception but right now, it is crystal clear. I also agree with u that the estimated value for everything should be in real time value based of exchanges.
Nice one @netuoso
I don't understand why the earnings on posts have to show up on $.... I was a huge confuse to me in my beginning because I thought he had earned ex 5$ but then I understand that is SBD and no $.
Steemit should change this and the best for me is just to change it to SBD, i mean, instead to shows up 5$ just show 5 SBD...
It's simpler.....
As I described in the post, you get paid in both SBD and STEEM. Showing the payout only in SBD is just as confusing as showing it in USD
But it is Steem Power. Not really liquid Steem.
Thank you for the contribution. It has been approved.
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thanks, happy today
thank you, your post. upvoted!
This is a needed change and the Steem Teem needs to make some big interface overhauls like this to grow the platform.
Congratulations @netuoso, this post is the fifth most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Hero account holder (accounts that hold between 10 and 100 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Hero account holders during this period was 426 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $12773.09. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, click here.
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very nice.go ahead