Shorting fiat

in #trading7 years ago (edited)

With great risk comes great reward.

That's a pretty common saying that can apply to a lot of things. Yesterday as the market was bleeding red and everyone and their grandmas were panicking and wondering how low it will go and the newbies asking if this is the crash that everyone has been warning about. Looking at your mainstream media... I decided to try out an exchange that I used to use a lot in the past, Kraken.com.

I had heard recently that it had been lagging like crazy on there for a very long time, making orders almost impossible to be executed and most customers were getting really tired of using it. I was surprised it was working somewhat okay when I logged on after a long time not having used it. I decided to send some funds over and try my hand at some margin trading which I don't really recommend anyone to do, I don't trade that often myself either but I just had this gut feeling yesterday that I wanted to act on.

This is a screenshot from cryptowat.ch. The price had recently hit 10,700. While some were arguing that this was not the end of the correction and that they weren't surprised if it would drop under $8k, I decided to give it a go and set up a few orders.

The reason I chose this exchange and not other popular exchanges such as Poloniex that offer margin trading is that they only offer margin trading against other cryptocurrencies, not fiat a.k.a. cash. Considering over the last month most of cryptos have been moving at the same time with Bitcoin instead of lagging behind like they did when Bitcoin was first seeing huge daily gains, this made trading BTC vs other Crypto less of an option for me. We all know that there won't be a short term rise of $ or € though so that made it a lot safer in my eyes to bet against that and that Bitcoin and Ethereum would recover from this "bottom".

If you are not aware of what margin trading is, it's basically borrowing so you can trade with a higher value than your own coins are worth. There is a lot more risk involved than the usual trading, if you buy BTC at $10k and it drops down to $8k, you would've lost 20% value, but you'd still have your BTC and would just need to wait for the next rise - but in margin you pay a fee for the loan and if you are trading with 5x more coins than you own, it means that if the price were to go down with 20% it would liquidate you, force sell your loan to pay it back and eat 80% of your value. The upside is that if Bitcoin goes up by 20% instead you'd profit as if you had 5x more of it.

The good thing about kraken is that you don't even need to exchange your coin for fiat to be able to short it, any coin you have in your balance can act as any other coin but that means that if you for example are holding 1 Bitcoin and your margin trade goes down by 20% you have a risk of being liquidated before it hits 20% exactly as your Bitcoin isn't worth $10k anymore which you are trading with when you opened the trade.

Anyway, so what I did was send some SBD and Steem via @blocktrades as Ethereum to the exchange, Ethereum because of the fast transaction time and low cost, would be nice if Kraken added Steem to their exchange already but I'll gladly use Ether compared to Bitcoin for now. Maybe @blocktrades could consider adding Bitcoin Cash soon. :)

As the coins arrived I waited for a small dip in the current chart and opened up a few trades. Knowing most of the coins would move up if Bitcoin did, I decided to go for some that you could margin trade with on Kraken which were XMR, REP, ETH and BTC. XMR and REP were only possible to borrow up to 2x with which I didn't mind but would've gone for 3x-5x if it was possible as I was feeling a bit adventurous and confident that they would only be going up from there on out. Then I went for Ethereum and Bitcoin which allowed up to 5x margin. After a few hours I had already profited a bit from the current trades so decided to buy the next dips too at a higher price while trying to refrain from putting my margin level under 130% (if it were to go down to 80% it would liquidate my trades and I'd lose 80% of the balance due to most trades being 5x margin, unless I sent more funds to my Kraken account before that happened to save it).

I stayed up a bit longer checking the charts and the movements and at some point I decided to put on a few alarms on my Bitcoin Checker app that would notify and wake me up from my sleep if anything disastrous was happening to the prices of BTC and ETH. Then I felt confident enough to go to sleep and as I woke up in the morning I was happy realizing none of the alarms had gone off - or at least that I could remember.

I opened up my account and saw this sea of green.

As happy as I was about the profit and knowing I can close the trades now and take the profit back onto Steem, the realization that Steem and SBD had also gone up a lot since yesterday meaning that if I had just held onto them instead of trading them into Ethereum and margin trading with it, I would've probably gained a lot of profits anyway and felt a lot safer than risking it this way.

While this was a fun experience and it happened to go in the right direction this time, I can safely tell others that the best way would still be to just hodl your coins in a very safe place like your Steem wallet. :)


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It is good to know that you made some profits in trading. I always learnt a new thing from your posts.

@acidyo Good for you mate! I love using cryptowatch as well, I see you. If Kraken added Steem that would be awesome (and it would help pump Steem's price as well!).

Regarding low transaction fees, I often use DOGE for instant daily trades via Blocktrades and Kraken. Really low fees and zero transaction times! Not suggesting anything, just stating my strategy!

Cheers

Good to know more about kraken and learn about market trading. Happy that you earned some good deals during your kraken adventure.
I just started investing during the crash.
Will try Margin when the time comes:)

@backpackingmonk Best of luck to you!

Well, while that was probably fairly risky I'm glad it turned out good for you and you made some money off of it. I definitely won't be doing anything like this, as I am a pussy when it comes to investing anyways, lol. Also, this hodl meme sure is becoming widespread. I legit saw a comedy youtuber wearing a shirt based around it the other day, haha.

Hehe, this is where "HODL" originated from in case you didn't know.

Drunk people. :D

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375643.msg4022997#msg4022997

I knew it came from the crypto community, but I didn't understand how/why it came to be. Drunk people coming up with it makes perfect sense though.

Really? Omg, I feel dumb now :)) but he is right! Aaand drunk...

I had to purchase my BTC from coinmama. I dont really like that but none of the other exchanges would accept my bank. It’s really irritating. But that’s ok because it was a one time thing and then closed my account. I got BTC and then went right over to bittrex and binance I believe it is called and traded. Ive heard mixed reviews on Kraken. I’m not really sure what to think about them honestly

@ginquitti I've been using Kraken and I can ensure you that your funds or cryptos are absolutely safe with them. Only problem is that sometimes the website crashes (due to high volume of new users), but then again everything is back to normal shortly. I bet the bad reviews you've heard about Kraken were just based on this fact.

I'm actually satisfied with Kraken. Took a really short amount of time to get my account verified and start trading. It also allows you to deposit, trade and withdraw crypto without having to submit any legal documents.

Best

Really? No documents at all? Ill have to see if my bank allows me to give transfer money to them. My bank is pretty stingy and hasn’t let me get involved in any of the other exchanges

@ginquitti Yeah, you can use the first two account levels without having to submit any documents. It enables you to deposit, trade and withdraw ONLY cryptocurrency, but there are some daily limits in place.

Withdrawing is what i really need to figure out. Ill check it out thanks man

Thanks for sharing your investment experience. I think trading on margin would make my blood pressure rise up a bit. Even if you didn't gain a lot over just holding your steem, you gained some valuable experience in trading during a volatile trading day.

yay!! Glad it went well for you! :) I just held powered up most of my sbd :)

Also first photo looks like Christmas with all of the red green and snowflakes :P

lol all snowflakes are white. :P

Yeah https://cryptowat.ch/ does that, during halloween they had small ghosts floating around. :D

WOWWWWW so much red and green! :P Never seen that site before. Thanks for the share!

Great Post @acidyo. It was not a cryptocurrency crash according to me. If you see other big cryptos (except BTC) they actually did not corrected that much. mainly the correction was seen in the BTC. Currency like ether, ripple, BCH was only down like 15-20%, which is very normal. Just because BTC is the biggest cryptocurrency everybody is like cryptocurrency crashed and all.

Good for you!
Great insights, thanks for sharing your experience.
But you're right, hodling is still the most profitable investment strategy for a lot of coins nowadays - especially long term.

what will be the analysis of the steem do you know or you can explain in next post brother

Damn i dint know there was margin trade for crypto! thanks man @acidyo

Quite adventures moves you did there and the post highlights what we could do if we would envision the direction. Nice gain and that should be just a signal for all of us about how market falls and recovers afterwards. But, i think that most of us are more precautions than others and avoid the risk for a good night sleep :) ...

Old money is on it's way out.Good trades.

Good post bro thank You :) following

@acidyo congratulations on your profit. Business is all about risk. I just put some of my money to buy dogecoin for long time investment. I will stop buying doge free I have acquired 300000 dogecoin and 10,000 ripple

why dogecoin? i mean i love it for its memes, but economically dogecoin has no use or sense.

yesterday everyone is panic... they dont know that it was a great chance to invest....it was a christmas sale... today the sale is over and everything turns into green

Detailed information , appreciable...

Ohh amn everyone is posted about cryptocurrency in steemit what the heck...

What a shocker!

except for the ones posting about people posting about cryptocurrency!?

Hi @acidyo!
To make trading with leverage is high-risk, so an advice from a trader: to put always a stop loss to your trades.

As much as I hate Kraken, I have 3000 Ripple there I still can't get to. Phone died out and 2 factor got lost. Kraken is the only one I have yet been able to reset and unlock. It has made for a great savings account as I bought Ripple at $0.18 each, lol

Hope you get them back!

Waiting for unlock email. Really a pain in the ass since I am as verified as the site allows.

Support Is A1

Yes, this is the second loss of 2 factor, lol.

Hay its good know about your experience with market and help us a lot to understand what you would think about the market. And I also the exchange that you had chosen for you tread ist really looking interesting and it's good to know about why you had chosen this . Your this post is helpful for me in this up and low market.

Its good that you made the choice to trade your sbd and steem to ethereum and not bitcoin. Blocktrades had a problem with transactions where they didnt confirm for a week. It was good because it locked me in at a high price. Did you invest a lot of money in steemit or did you earn it all?

In tune with your conclusion: Happy Hodlidays !

Speculator are markets for term to term . Crypto currency are in term phase, its not going end without making proper hype. Till that we can play trading game and minting gains. Even long term investment is more rewarded. Just we need to bit cautious and always play with level to level with stop loss terminology.

So detailed information brother

Man you got some balls, I'm not sure I'd ever do that. Wayyyyy to dangerous imho. But I get where your confidence comes from since I made a few bucks too by trading the ups and downs on btc yesterday :)

I think it will grow well

Congratulations on your trade, I made a small overnight profit too shorting BTC on the 'big crash day'. You're right about hodling but sometimes it's fun to just do a little trading with some spare cash, as long as it's not more than you can afford to lose it's all good!

Well, while that was probably fairly risky I'm glad it turned out good for you and you made some money off of it. I definitely won't be doing anything like this, as I am a pussy when it comes to investing anyways, lol. Also, this hodl meme sure is becoming widespread

I made money just from people panic selling! Woo!

I loved yesterday’s panic selling. You can really see that most of the people here just bought in bitcoin and cryptos with no clue of what the technology and the future will be like. I was pretty excited but I didn’t manage to get my buying orders through GDAX...

It is good to get rid of weak hands every now and then. Bitcoin went from 8k to 20k in less than a month, we are at 15k now...that was certainly not that big of a crash, mainstream media just creating FUD catastrophic imaginary scenarios.

Thank you for sharing this @acidyo.

As I was reading this, I was asking myself, before we got to your numbers, if the price of SBD and STEEM offset any gains. It appears you came to that same conclusion.

It is a wonderful lesson in margin/technical trading.

With the volatility in crypto, it is a traders dream. Of course, catch yourself on the wrong side and watch out. I was watching my account value yesterday and I intuitively called close to the bottom. I saw my account bottom out down about 40% from the high and said that is it. Sure enough, it went up throughout the day.

Unfortunately, I has no more powder in my keg to add to my positions. That is okay, I will just acquire more steem by posting and commenting.

I Wish I had your luck,Margin trading is pretty scary. An investor friend told me how he lost all his money in one night. It's not advisable on my opinions unless you really know what you are doing.

It would be great to have Steem added by Kraken.

I was very keen on selling my voins a week ago when the market was at it’s tops and wait for a dip to buy back but I’ve made up my mind about a month ago to just hodl and look the profits as time goes. So I just moved everything on cold storage and to be honest I am happier this way and don’t deel bad about making bad trades. :) Congrats on the trades though! :)

Sadly, I was one of those who panicked because of sudden dip, I lost about 100 dollars because of this sudden crisis. However, when I compared the amount that I got thanks to steemit, it is just a gift to the crypto world from me :)

I was right too, my trades were set at 11,200$. For just now it is up 20/30%? I don't even bother, my point is to get as much cryptocurrency I can. Why people feel fear whene btc goes down in relation to USD?

BTC amount doesn't change when it falls in USD!

Wonderful publication Thanks for the referrals

Well, it kinda makes sense, everything went back together with steem.
But it's not a bad idea either to diversify part of your stack with other few good coins.
So you did right!)

You are a true trader @acidyo?

I haven’t start to purchase other coins with my steem and I think I will just keep them here for the time being.

I believe steemit has a lot of potential and it should grow nicely next year.

This is the same conclusion I took after trading my SBD two months ago. I managed to increase my sum of money with more thsn 10% when SBD and Steem had a ratio of almost 1:1 which made me happy and proud. Then the price of SBD rised over 5 times the price of Steem and I was about to cry. If I just have held that money as SBD... but this is how we learn :)

Now unrelated: what do you think of flags war between berniesanders and haejin?

Thanks for the great information @acidyo

Worth noting to that you can do the same thing in bitshares without having to pay any fees.

Hey. I understand the concepts explained of leveraging and margin trading but I was wondering if anyone would explain it to greater lengths or even link a post about it. I don’t understand the whole loan concept explained here. I would gladly do it but I this current moment I have no high speed data and even loading this took 5 minutes. I understand marging watching is incredibly risky and to be honest I don’t have the money to be risky. I have been investing in ripple and was happy when it dropped yesterday. I’ve been getting advice from my girlfriend older brother about the crypto world and when he first mentioned it was like explaining black magic.

I want to learn more on my own with the help of this community rather than asking him a 1000 questions.

This would have fitted-in into a travel blog with few pictures and the title "a day journey into the world of trading cryptos'. I followed it through and through....

@acidyo I've been thinking about the same thing myself, a few people I know in the finance sphere have been doing the same thing but our assets onthe blockchain are volatile enough as it is. I think you have come up with the right solution in the end. Its not worth risking more than you are willing to lose and when it comes to CFDs and margin trading that is exactly the type of risk you expise yourself to.

Expectations went askew in the early days of #Bitcoin when the network was tiny and market cap was small. These conditions no longer exist. Any public blockchain that achieves this level of usage and market cap will experience high on-chain fees. Block size will not really help.

The screenshot of your profits is a beatiful sight. 😍

I wish it was mine. 😊

Interesting endeavour.

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