Talking to investors and hedge funds and being an investor myself, we've identified two key issues that are currently hurting Steem.
The two issues are Liquidity & The Hard Lockup (locking up Steem with no way to get our early).
In the investing world, you have hard lockups and soft lockups. In the crypto world, being so volatile and risky, hard lockups are very unusual. Most hedge funds or traders get into crypto for the volatility, which creates huge volume and demand. When Steem starts to pump, there simply isn't enough supply supplied fast enough for a big whale to accumulate sufficiently to make it worth their time to trade.
What happens is an artificial rally with noobs chasing the burning end of a wick until it inevitably goes out. The volume is nothing spectacular for long, quickly fleeting up then disappearing.
What I propose is a 5% fee that is burned for powering down instantly any amount you want. If the price of Steem pumps 50%, what is a mere 5% fee to catch dem gains? Keep in mind, Steem currently has around 8.5% inflation, so 5% burns on large amounts of stake can add up quickly. (I would have powered down 1mil Steem when it ran up to 10k Satoshis, poof 50k Steem burned from existence, and guess what, I'd bought twice as much on the dip).
People think 5% is high until Steem pumps to $1 overnight and you can't push withdraw fast enough xD
source
Allowing people, the scapegoat to power down early should increase the confidence for more people to power up. The sell pressure that comes from large whales instantly powering down is met with large buy orders looking to pay a reasonable price.
This all creates much more liquidity, which in turns makes Steem more attractive to exchanges. More exchanges mean more liquidity. More liquidity means more speculative investors. I can do this all day. It's a nice conveyor belt to solving two issues that currently plague Steem with its 1mil 24hr volume and thin ass sell walls, making volume even lower.
With thin sell walls come thin buy walls, who wants to lock up a lot of capital on a centralized exchange in hopes someone decides to sell. Traders want action, and when Steem moons, we'll get a lot more speculative action if there is a healthy supply of Steem on the market for sale.
I know it sounds crazy, but when you combine a healthy supply with a burn, the result on paper equals more liquidity and a lower total supply of Steem, which equals: insert rocket ship emoji
I'm a fan of burning, any way you can think of burning more Steem? Any way you can think of to add more liquidity to Steem? - Please post your suggestions below.
This seems like a great idea. I would support it. (Barring some security protections are put in place in case of stolen accounts)
Also I think we should be reducing the 3 month power down window to something like 2-3 weeks, even that would be more attractive to investors.
Great ideas overall by the way and keep up the great work you are doing with steem!
Great idea, but I want a 1 week lockdown option or a whitelisted powerdown withdrawl address incase someone steals my keys.
Also, a slopped slider would be great here. Kinda like post office. 13 weeks in 13 pieces is 0%, all after a week is 3%, all after 24 hours 5%, all now 7%.
Burn 50% use 50% to fund sps and reduce the 10% take based on posts.
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A one-week lockdown option + a whitelisted powerdown withdrawl is fckin amazing dude, that would solve it right? If someone had your account, lets say you can only change the whitelist with your owner key. If someone gets your owner key (you are fcked anyway, at least I am pretty sure you are unless you do some quick ninja magic) you can still have that one week lockdown option.
I think account recovery is still possible if someone nabs your owner keys and changes PW. It has a lockdown to be changed something like a week after PW reset.
But a 'default' safe setting would be good like instant powerdown is 1 week locked to enable if default whitelist isn't set.
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I like it. Seems bullet proof to me.
BRING THIS COMMENT THREAD IN FRONT OF @elipowell
Well, Queen Liz is amazing xD but this is a consensus witness thing, we need 17 of the top 20 to agree to add the fee burn.
I like the 1 week lockdown idea as well to go with @theycallmedan's proposal.
Resteeming this.
We are getting rekt
I disagree. With the overwhelming amount of sell pressure we have, (great coins have burns every quarter, STeem sells stake every month) and we have held steady at 30ish cents give or take. If you compare to bitcoin, sure missed opportunity cost, but if you watch my last video you understand how I feel about opportunity cost. Bitcoin is helping all of crypto but battering us out of the bear market. Once the door is knocked down, great alts won't just limp out, they'll run out.
You can’t disagree that we are getting rekt cause we are, hitting new all time lows in satoshis all day, and we are around 30 cents and were around 44 cents not too long ago... that’s a big dump...
We just need steemit to finish dumping and for smt’s to take off...
I am hopeful, hence my continued investment
I’ve been trying to watch your video about steem price but the video isn’t working
Will try again from home
Why not make SP transferable?
If I'm going to buy STEEM just to power it up, I'd rather buy it at a discount from somebody who wants liquidity.
Big wave of FUD hits, I can get more SP for my STEEM.
Instead of a flat 5%, we let the market decide.
Security's still a concern, though.
Really like the Idea.
maybe with a Sp tranfer key can it be secure?
You can already transfer SP. THe issue is there isn't a market built for it and having exchanges trade in SP will be something that would take work/time. Without exchanges selling the SP it would be peer 2 peer, and you won't catch me sending large trades first xD
Plus we need a burn IMO, well not need but it sure as hell will help with the price.
I wonder if the Steem-engine guys could incorporate.
Wondering though, if you can already transfer SP, why don't hackers do that?
Take over an account and quickly dump all the SP into one they control to avoid the account recovery process?
The only issue I have is that this could Affect a person if their account was stolen but I think Steem now does better when it comes to account security so it's brilliant for me however let's say 5% for larger stake and 3% for lesser, theoretically it may still work. This way people will power up all their Steem cuz they know they can get it anytime either Small or large stake holders
This is very true. I never thought of this. Maybe someone could put a lock on their account of x amount of days if they know they won't be trading. However, you are right, it would decrease security. Maybe we can have a withdraw password or even 2fa on Steem? That would be amazing.
2FA would be a great addition. But I think for security reasons, instant withdrawal should never be possible. I am okay with 5-7% burn for a 2 week powerdown. 1 week is not much time to notice that you have been hacked. What if you are on vacation (usually without your active key in pocket)
Recovering your account is kinda useless, if the STEEM is already gone...
Maybe only let mater key use for this operation.
What do you think about "Great idea, but I want a 1 week lockdown option or a whitelisted powerdown withdrawl address incase someone steals my keys." - @abitcoinskeptic said this above.
One week probably would be too long of a time to wait for 5% burn fee. Because of the volatility in the markets, one might deem not worth losing 5%, since the opportunity sought may not exist in a week.
In combination with the whitelisted account if instant transfer to that account is allowed it could work. But now it complicates things a bit with too many operations.
I think there could be simpler solutions. 1) Users can enable/disable this feature on their account where changes apply after a certain period of time - 3 days to a week. 2) Power down the funds to savings, which is locked to 3 days by default.
I am sure devs can come up with much better solutions.
2FA would be nice.
Yes we could create a window really and from this window there could be something like a 2fa system which could prevent thieves from stealing funds to account
Yeah, instant power downs would be a serious security risk. That's always been one of the selling points of Steem, that you can recover your account with funds intact if it gets hacked due to the long 13 week power down period. I've seen it in action with @surfermarly, her master key was phished, but she was able to recover her account in time with no monetary losses. So this needs to stay.
But you could add to it, like an option to enable an instant power down if you're willing to take the risk. That would have to take some time as well though, like a month. That's plenty of time for someone to return from a vacation and stop any hacker activity. 2fa wouldn't hurt either in enabling this feature.
I like the idea. I was just thinking the same thing, instant power down may create a security risk if account is compromised. There should some sort of security implemention. Maybe instead of instant pd it can take 24 hours.
If active key is leaked or stolen, nothing would stop perpetrator from trasfering funds to another account quickly.
7%. 5% gets burned, 2% goes to other existing SP holders.
My man playing 4d chess.
I'm into it, check witness lol!!! That was a 4d move tho, u sunk my battleship!
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this sounds more reasonable IMO
I really like the idea but it may negatively affect voting as people could shell out “free” votes. Power up, vote ten times, power down. Sure it would cost more than it’s worth but it may mess up the algorithm.
It might be a difficult thing to plug in.
I would gladly let people make 10 votes, power down and take a 5% hit then do it again. It may rekt the algorithm but it would rekt the person doing it much quicker, and burn a lot of steem off the market. Plus if the person is found doing this, which large stake, free downvotes would quickly take care of someone doing that. But that is something I didn't think of and is something someone could do.
Its not the faucets that give crypto value its the sinks.
Having such a major sink that would burn large amounts of Steem could possibly do wonders.
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Not saying I disagree. Just saying they’d have to extensively test this one.
I actually like this idea a lot. Put a dent in the inflation, which creates an upward pressure price, when you liquidate, which puts a downward pressure on price.
On the other hand, heimindanger has pretty well convinced me that staking in and of itself is kinda pointless.
I am interested in hearing more on why staking is pointless. Are you talking about staking on Steem?
The conversation was on this post: https://steempeak.com/steemleo/@nealmcspadden/leo-voting-windows-the-usual
Does it matter if we have more users succeeding here? One area I am concentrating on now is the dApps.
We have at least 20-30 now where people can post niche content, play games, gamble etc. I am testing them, polling about them, reviewing them, and helping others to get started withthem. I'm also promoting them on social media.
All of the dApps I push have big sp and vote for people who post with them. STEEM dApps are all at the top of the lists at thestateofthedapps and other similar lists.
So if you post random photos for free on fb, post here with appics. Pro shots go to ntopaz. Free restaurant reviews are paid at tasteem. Get your video paid at dtube instead of posting for nothing at yt. On and on we go.
Next up - is steem-engine a game changer? The ability to trade many coins and tokens while on steem seems to be to be a great step forward.
And as my last idea - does it help when people buy in at the dolphin/orca level to USE steem for their own work? The are not trading investors, these are small to mid-sized companies that invest to get promotion with steem posts and interaction. If we has 500 companies such as coingecko, would that help the problem you are talking about?
I wonder what you would be investing in if people are not blogging here. I try hard to ignore the price and just keep working. I find incredible new options many times a week. STEEM is a whole new world compared to when I got here two years ago, and far superior to that time.
Of course, I think everyday on how to onboard people and give plenty of Steem to help get new people on. I am not a professional marketer, I know people that are and try to get them to get involved with Steem.
Everyone has their skillsets, and mine is from an investor's POV. How can we get more people buying millions of Steem? How can I sell the vision I see in Steem that made me power up. That is my strength; thus I lay into that perspective with ideas to make Steem more investor-friendly.
I love the game theory of economics and investing and I wanted to stimulate getting new ideas to burn Steem, which will help the price. Never underestimate speculation, there are coins out there with a billion dollar market cap without a single platform built or user.
I understand your point, but STEEM's niche is to be a place where users can come. We do not need to find them. We get 1000 or more each week with a 95% kill rate. I promote, but mostly I try to help the little guys that are already here and trying. I think a vibrant community would help draw investors in.
What vision was that? Has it changed since you got here? I know you are a huge booster, and we all appreciate that.
My thought on coming here was that the beautiful posts would draw people to my weight loss coaching, and some of that happens. But my primary focus changed to Minnow Tips since I see such potential for great communication and such need of people who can do it.
Trust me - I want your investors here as much as you do. But I do not know if this is a good place for the pumping and dumping crowd.
But why not both? You keep doing what you are doing and good at, and I'll do the same and we can support each other? Your strengths are helping minnows, which is why I delegated SP to you. I would love to find more people like you so I can invest in them as well. If you need any help with minnow tips, feel free to reach out.
Sure let's throw that in this hardfork too!
While I don't think it is a bad idea, no one is going to buy steem until they hear about it.
Keep playing with little details that bug our own team... and it might make a few people happy and stop some of the bleeding, but it doesn't fix anything.
Saw this conversation today, in another place also. ;)
Everyone has their own POV and how they believe it can help Steem. As an investor, these are two issues that hurt Steem pretty badly. I have talked to a handful of bigger investors then me, who are currently not invested in Steem and when we talked these were the issues. When I presented this idea to them, they liked it. So I do see this as a bigger deal than just our own team.
I'm not opposed.
I'm more amused. :) The price went down we have to do all the things.
I do think it is a good idea.
It isn't a bad idea. We need this kind of stuffs to be incorporated in our #newsteem...
Actually shared a few ideas on #newsteem...
They will look into steem when it has any real volume out there on the market.
Money talks!
I'm all for this idea, do it now lol !
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Great idea you shared on Instant powering down with a 5% fee. We have to deliberately grow steem with burns.
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Having an option to burn to speed up power down sounds like a great idea! I mean, if you don't want to burn, you don't have to do it but you wait your 7 days and if you want it now, burn 5%!
Would this burn you are proposing be 5% per cycle or 5% for the whole 13 weeks?
I was thinking there would be the normal powerdown option, then you add the new instant powerdown option. Whatever you decide to instantly powerdown will cost you 5%. If you are currently in a powerdown and want to power down the rest instantly, it could be either just a flat 5% or a swinging scale where the % gets lower the amount of time you have been in powerdown.
That makes it more clear! I was trying to frame this to the current 13-week based cycle! Yeah makes sense, it's still a pretty good amount to burn down!
So big investors are willing to invest on Steem and power up but only if they can power down immediately. Makes me happy that they understand the value of the platform but what keeps them back is not any faults but the speed of power down, I guess since they depend on every cent they invest, they need to be able to move investments quickly.
I am a hardcore Steemian and Steem believer, but even I have to think twice when I hit powerup. 13 weeks with no way out is pretty rough. Just speaking from my own POV, I'd feel better knowing I could get out anytime for a fee.
I feel this can be a fear factor too, cuz steem may just hit it and you feel the need to pull out
never powered down so did not do real research on it. if you start power down in the first week you would get 1/13 of your stake?
someone wrote in the comments maybe the option of not burning steem but "giving" it to all that are not powering down would be an interesting option.
I like I can
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Sounds like a great idea to me. What would need to happen for something like that to be implemented?
If it would require a hardfork, which I am pretty sure it would, it'll need consensus of 17 of the top 20 witnesses.
Super easy! Ha ha.
I totally like this idea. Waiting for such a long period of time before your power down completes is really not good for investors considering the unsteady state of coin prices. 5% isn't really that much I must say...
More so, I feel another problem investors face is the fact that curators' reward is somewhat too low and this discourages many investors who do not feel it's fair to start blogging before earning.
Great post with interesting and useful discussions.
A lot of people have been talking about this for a long time. Its a decent idea.
The biggest issue though would be the reward pool size fluctuations.
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I think it may disintegrate the community, which I think is the most valuable thing we have. Steem doesn't have big money behind it (like Binance or EOS), it's a more genuine grassroots ecosystem, and this gives it much more resilience. The more centralized blockchains/cryptocurrencies may be doing a lot better in terms of price, but they can die much more easily because of the lack of resilience.
Respectfully, I disagree... if instant power down were suddenly available, this platform would be a ghost town already.
The "delay" is what has kept everyone from acting on hasty and impulsive fear.
There are 100 million of liquid steem stored on exchanges. Sell walls are there and they will be very tough to crack. The issue is the lack of big buy walls. There are way too many sellers in our system, not nearly enough buyers.
It would be neat to have a quick powerdown, but that will only create more selling pressure making steem a coin with destructive downward pressure. It would be devastating for Steem price, a total reset of market cap. It would almost mean a total waste of time for everyone who grinded for 3 years and decided to power up. It is quite possible to go there without this insane proposition if btc dumps to 6k, back to 10cents. With this proposition Steem could go as low as 2-3 cents if btc dumps, and that would be a total and utter disaster.
100 million liquid Steem is not much at all. Coins have billions in supply, and we are a social network where you actually need the coin to be on the platform. I am on exchanes everyday, there are huge bull walls all the time (might be me, might not be) @acidyo can attest to this. There will be 500k buy walls on the regular accross all the exchanges.
Let me break it down for you. If I wanted to buy 2 million USD worth of Steem, it'd take me a month OR I could go pump the price to 60cents because the sell walls just aren't there.
I could buy 10 million USD worth of bitcoin in about an hour, for ETH it'd take me an hour and for EOS I could get it done by the days end. I can't do that with Steem, and that is a big problem if we ever want lots of big whales speculating on Steem.
This is true, but keep in mind that $2 million USD is roughly 2.0% of the entire market cap of steem while $10 million in bitcoin is only .005% the market cap of bitcoin. To really be apples to apples here you would need to try and buy $4,000,000,000 (2%) worth of btc. Not quite as much liquidity for that amount in btc either. :) Though I get what you are saying...
On that note is there much interest from hedge funds for steem (if there was better liquidity)? I talked to one a while back and they were more interested in investing in steemit.com then they were buying steem tokens...
Calculating by marketcap when talking market buys isn’t the right way to go about it. Investing has a range before it jumps a level. When talking about crypto that range is 2-10mil - regardless of the marketcap of the asset. This is the range most investors feel comfortable investing. So if your crypto can’t provide enough supply to fill the 2-10mil range, you are missing a whole level of investor that is very important.
I’m not sure how long ago you talked to hedge funds but ICOs have died off. IEOs are too small for anyone to care about. Investors are looking at older coins with solid fundamentals. Investing in the right coin has always proven to out perform investing in the businesses built ontop of them. Hedge funds worth their salt know about steem, mainly due to EOS but also the fact there was no ico, which clears Steem from the SEC coming after it for a illegal ICO.
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Yes my point was that when putting in that kind of money and to adequately compare tokens, the market cap does seem to matter.
I get your point on missing out on a whole class of investor though, and that very well could be the case.
Regarding the Hedge Fund, I met with them back in late 2017. They liked the idea of steemit.com and the potential and were looking for some kind of equity stake in it, but didn't go much beyond that. Said that was more interesting to them than buying the tokens. Steemit,Inc never responded to them either way though.
All that steem stored on exchanges is not in order books, they are waiting for better prices, then you will see hard resistances all over the place, my guess the first huge resistance will be at 1$ steem which will be very tough to crack.
I agree liquidity is very low compared to other coins, I just don't want to see that black swan event where the price of Steem goes down to new all time lows.
First we need to create positive investment attitude for big speculators to come, but I feel we are not even close to that attitude, nobody writes positive articles on Steem, only we are. We shill steem to ourselves. No marketing still, no changes. That is how I see things.
I can tell you if you go to EOS telegram people say the same thing. The bear market took a big bite out of everyone. And EOS has billions. More people know about us then a lot realize. We just need to keep marching, that oasis on the horizon is not a mirage.
Staying cool trough this altcoin bear market truly requires balls of steel. Let's see how it goes, HF21 should make things more interesting for everyone.
Big whales speculating isn't what's needed... having "uses" that draw in regular people is what's needed. Otherwise this is more pyramid scheme than useful blockchain.
Love this idea @theycallmedan, and I certainly agree with you: a burning mechanism is vital for steem to thrive!
Power down is always a headache for any investor in steem because it takes to much time to recover all steem to trade that’s really not a good idea to attract investors. Because ath comes only for two or four days not for three months so every wants to sell but can’t because of power down features.
So why would any investor invest in steem, when they can’t sell when they want.
Really this idea can work 5%fee for power down.when we don’t have any transfer fee for any amount of transfer and This can also help to fight with inflation of steem supply
It was always my desire to have an internal SP/Steem market, but your suggestion seem to be much easier to realize.
We do need more ways to burn Steem that essentially doesn’t equate to user fees ..... hmmm.
The best idea for steem I've heard in a year
Woah, this is a seriously cool idea. However, I think a flat static 5% may be a bit too small of a penalty. Maybe make it bracketed? Maybe have an option to dump to project funding instead of a burn? This is something I honestly haven't thought about and I like it.
One of the best idea I have read this week. Burning Steem in exchange for instant liquidity is a game changer. Good point of view dan you always shared!
Things to work on after HF and SMT's
5% is a lot man. If someone wanted to powerdown 1 million sp, they'd have to burn 50,000 steem? If steem was $1, thats be $50k just to have steem liquid. I dunno man, but that still sounds way to expensive.
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I would like to see this but with 2 factor authentication. With the advent of google Authenticator type apps, this type of thing would be great.
There would be a sliding scale; the faster you want your money the more you burn. It requires an owner key as well as the 2 FA and burns 6%; 3% to go to the new pool for projects, 2% to existing SP holders over the standard 15 SP account creation (perhaps goes only to those who have non-delegated >16 SP staked, though this could get tricky since some would just create accounts in order to benefit any time a whale cashes out) and 1% gets burned from the reward pool.
I also think a 6 hour period would be required; if someone has access to all of your 2FA things such as the app on your phone, your owner key and your email/phone number then you should have some serious security concerns and this shouldn’t be your top priority! 6 hours would be enough time to do this type of thing without being a burden on the investor, because when markets move quick you don’t want to wait >12 hours to do these moves.
Hope this can be incorporated into a future update, you’ve invested quite a bit so will they listen to one of their investors?
Congratulations @theycallmedan!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:
the lockup period is what keep many investors away the team has to consider that thing to be change soon
I've been saying this for very long time. My idea was to bring power downs to instant with no fee and let the market flow freely. Many of us warned of these dark days of liquidity back in january with ned's mass powerdown to exchanges . Some deal was made with witnesses but it was never public. If we forked steemit Inc out then they would have been forced to actually get profitable or die right then. I think forking a danger out of the chain is acceptable. Today, on July 6 months later, We are past that point and can never return to edit any transactions in the chain for any reason in the future. The only option is to let steemit sell millions of coins.. forcing the price down... and the problem of liquidity gets worse. Bit of a shit situation I'm afraid.
But we can fix it all. Here's how.
We have to build decentralized repository on steem for steem, then vote this code in with community support. Steem becomes unstoppable. Bitcoin is our dad but it will seem like our grandpa once this phase of governance development is complete.
Brilliant.
I love your line of thinking: solutions to some serious hurdles.
Never would’ve thought of this. Really hope this gets proper consideration and perhaps implementation, if it’s serve as well as the theory suggests... :-)
I really like the burning of tokens idea, we clearly have to find more ways of pulling STEEM out of circulation other than just powering it up, its clearly not a motivation for people to have strong hands or see any benefit.
I think the instant trade for a 5% burn fee seems fair and it will also discourage users or rather allow them to think twice about powering down to sell if they have a smaller stake while whales can do their thing
I would like to see more ways to burn STEEM. I like what LEO is doing with burning bid bot bids and promotion tokens are burned, I think those are viable options too.
I'd also like to see with SMT's and SCOT tokens creation of Smart contracts for services that also burn a small amount of the tokens
whats about 4 weeks for powerdown and you can get for 1 week powerdown instant for a fee? This fee can be use for onboarding for example, like it creates some Tickets for wallets? if Someone powers down 100k fo he can get 25k instant.
So 25k - 5% =1250.
So there are 416 new account tickets avaible. Its also important for a bull run :)
it is great 5% fee on instantly powering down ....
Not just that, EOS has set standard as 3 days. We need to massively drop it from the 13 days that it's at. I like the fee system as it does help reduce supply as well, but why not both? Take it down to a 2 weeks, 1 payout each week. Want it now? Pay current inflation price.
When I read the first three Paragraphs of your post my mind instantly went like we could have a split system in which an Investor can lock in 10000 STEEM as Steempower and is eligible to withdraw 25% of it instantly but once a week.
But going further into the Post the 5% Fee sounds amazing as this Burns STEEM which makes it more alluring.
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eso e sbueno saberlo, gran analisis,
I'm late to the party here @theycallmedan, but couldn't you just build a bucket (e.g. savings) conforming to those rules? You could keep the slow power down for people who want the peace of mind and have the 'rainy day' bucket for people to withdraw instantly with a penalty. Hell, I might keep some percentage of my SP in that rainy day bucket for emergency beer money. I don't know if technically it would be the easiest solution, but conceptually for me it is.