Today was supposed to be spent writing up an article I have been mentally preparing over the last few days. However, every time I sit down in front of my computer with the intention of typing some words, I find myself typing nothing at all. My mind is currently far too distracted by its attempts to make sense of the events of last night, and the growing division among the community.
Last night's discussion seemed to get rather heated-- to say the least. I have since had the opportunity to process things and find some clarity in regards to my thoughts on what has been going on. I briefly considered rejoining the discussion on @dantheman's post, but I decided that it would be a lot more productive to express all of my thoughts in a post. The method of conversation used last night did not get us anywhere, so hopefully this will be a more efficient means of communicating my concerns.
To begin, I will admit that I am unfortunately not as early an adopter as some, so my perspective is somewhat limited in relation to what started all this madness. It is evident however, to me and to any one else who spares a moment of observation, that there has been a long standing animosity between @dantheman and a number of whales, including @berniesanders and @smooth. I am oblivious to what event, or series of events led to this bad blood, so I shall not comment on who is in the right and who is in the wrong. I haven't the basis to make such an assertion.
My perspective is limited to that of one who has been on Steemit for a few months and watched as the lack of unity between the most influential of us, has led to a growing division among those of us who have less influence. Things have gotten so bad that I have had several family members ask me what all this is about. I speak of family members that do not even hold an account on Steemit, but merely view the site on occasion to read my novel and articles.
If this growing tension is visible, even to those that are not yet a part of the community, then it does not seem like much of a stretch to believe that this may be dissuading a fair amount of potential users from joining us. Couple this with members of the community leaving because of flag-abuse, perceived whale-collusion and unrewarded content, and we have a serious problem on our hands.
Whether you are motivated by a desire to attain more wealth, or a hope to see Steemit succeed, you all must realise that those agendas are one in the same. A high value STEEM is a successful Steemit, and will draw an influx of users that will sustain the economy and the community indefinitely. Just as a thriving community and economy, will ensure a high value of STEEM, and increase the already tremendous value of your wallets to a point where you will be able to guarantee your descendants financial support for generations to come.
I regret to say that I'm becoming doubtful that this will come to pass unless a lasting peace can be achieved. I know it is difficult for one to extend an arm to someone who they believe to have wronged them, or to someone who they dislike on a personal level. Considering this, it is a big ask, but I ask it nonetheless: If one of you are able to be the bigger man as they say, and bury any past transgressions and make a true effort to move on for the sake of Steemit and all of us who have come to love it, then I believe that we can begin to rebuild the bonds that have been severed among us, and promote a community of unity that will exhibit a natural magnetism towards attracting new users.
In writing this, I expect that this prior paragraph may provoke a response akin to, "I/We already tried." If this is so, I ask that you try again. Make a public gesture, one that the whole community can see, and then if it is denied, at least we here who have a limited perspective will be enlightened, learning who is really to blame for the division. Perhaps you feel this is not important, but let me share with you why I think that it is.
Steemit changed my life. This statement is not an exaggeration. Before discovering this platform, I was losing the ability to trust in any type of organisation. Not long prior to my discover of the platform, I had taken employment in charity fundraising, as I felt I had some redeeming to do, and this I believed, would be an excellent way to do so.
Having gone into this job, already fully aware of the abuse of corporations, governments and many other seemingly useful organisations, I was rather wounded to find that even this charity fundraising was somewhat of a scam. Whilst the charities were making money, I was making far too much on bonuses, money that should really be going to the alleged causes we were promoting.
After this, I took up employment at an energy company. The scam I found myself involved in this time was even more insidious, and before long I was forced to leave due to my unwillingness to betray my morals in order to eat. I had found myself in a place where I could no longer trust in companies, or businesses of any type, which is a difficult place to be in when you live in this consumer-driven world. Then I discovered Steemit, and everything changed.
I was of course doubtful at first, sure that this must be some sort of scam. But, as I did my research and learned of the transparent nature of the site, I became moderately confident that this place was conceived with the best of intentions. Upon joining, and becoming a part of the community, that confidence began to grow, but it is starting to dwindle as I gain a better understanding of the platform and am beginning to see how the system is being exploited to make the wealthy wealthier, just like the society outside of Steemit.
I still believe that this place can be something great, and that it can do for millions of others what it was able to do for me--show me that it is okay to entertain the possibility of a benevolent system. For this to be achieved, some changes have to be made. Whilst you guys are the ones that hold the most influence in terms of STEEM power, you have to recognize that your influence does not stop there. You influence this community in ways that extend beyond your holdings of STEEM, and it is your examples that will set better ones for everyone else. I hope that you take the steps necessary to find common ground and promote the right message to others who are looking in, wondering whether to join or whether to invest.
On a personal note;
@dantheman. Many have a very strong opinion about you, but I have yet to observe enough of your actions personally to form anything of sustenance. I do find your choice to decline payouts amidst a time of low reward-pools to be very admirable, and some of your writings certainly speak to that of a high moral standard.
Yet, your last post, while I agreed with a lot of what you said, definitely contained some passive-aggressive undertones. The troll image imparticular was an unnecessary addition to the message you were portraying, and I think may have cheapened it somewhat and provoked @smooth and @berniesanders.
I am still trying to make up my mind about you, but am leaning towards your intentions being honourable. But, if they are, and if you are really as moral as your writings suggest, then you can demonstrate that by desisting with the disguised provocation and making a genuine effort to be productive towards re-establishing peace between stakeholders.
I know this is difficult, I have struggled with it in the past, as I am quite a smartarse and when I dislike someone, though that is rare, it is hard not to take a little cheeky jab at them. Nevertheless, the effort must be made if you are true to your word on your hopes for this platform.
I hope that you prove me right here and turn out to be the moral, mature, visionary and role model that I think you can be.
@berniesanders. I think you will agree with me that our conversation last night, if you could call it that, got us nowhere. I still don't agree with the motivations behind the upvoting of your comments to $8, but I am willing to forget about that. I realise that the system here, while a great one, certainly has some vulnerabilities to exploitation and while they are in existence, I am going to choose not judge those who choose to make use of them.
I had mentioned in my comment on @dantheman's post that in spite of hearing a lot of negative things about you, I wanted to make up my own mind, based on my own observations. What I feel is important when it comes to you, is that whether you are genuinely a cunt or not, there is a growing sentiment among the community that you are.
Users are living in fear of your flags and it is silencing the voices and the opinions of too many. Is this actually what you want? Do you want everyone to be afraid of you? It takes a very insecure person to be craving the fear of others, so I would pity you if that was the case. Your actions last night, not your words, gave me a glimpse of you that leads to me believe you may not be the cunt that everyone thinks you are.
You could have easily downvoted my comment about you, with both your accounts or more. You didn't, and that is an action that I did not dismiss. If you're not the person that everyone says you are, and if you do have the community and Steemit's best interests at heart, then I would have to encourage you to be more public in your decrying of the allegations against you.
I imagine that you might feel you have nothing to prove, and that others should think what they want--fuck them. This would be my mental position on the matter, if the situation was of no consequence to the community. However, this situation is of serious consequence.
If you're not who they say you are, and you just have a bad rep for unjust reasons, remaining silent on your innocence is going to hurt the community just as much as if you really were who they claim. You are, whether rightfully or not, the primary source of this ubiquitous fear of being flagged that has overshadowed the community, and so it falls on you, whether it is fair or not, to help negate the fear.
If this means giving your flag a rest for a couple of weeks, except in extreme circumstances, then why not do it? If it means over turning some other flags with your hefty influence, so that others will associate @berniesanders as the man who saved them from a flag, rather than hit them with one, why not do it? You have every right, given the current guidelines and innerworkings of the site, to do with your influence what you please. I am merely asking that you use that influence to restore the community's trust in our whales, and bring a much more inviting atmosphere to Steemit in the process. This will benefit you and your wallet greatly in the long run.
One final thing, @berniesanders. You said to me yesterday, "Open your eyes." You imply that there is something I am not seeing, yet offer me no enlightenment as to what that something I'm missing is. If you disagree with everything I am saying and feel that it's because I am missing a key piece of information, then please, share it with. Either here or on steemit.chat, but throwing riddles at me isn't going to help me find clarity on the situation.
@smooth. For the most part, you seem to keep your emotions in check when discussing issues, and I have respect for you in this regard. That respect takes somewhat of a blow though when I see your actions. Your flagging of @krnel's post the other day was, though within your rights, a cuntish move. What will bring people to Steemit is diversity, and I see very few others posting the likes of what @krnel is sharing. To downvote his post in an effort to hide it from the trending page because it's overvalued, in my opinion, is really backwards thinking.
It's also hypocritical in the sense that you jump to @ozchartart's defense, on request or not, for @dantheman downvoting his posts for essentially the same reason. Out of all the whales I have observed on this site, it is you, @smooth, who I feel most confidently about wanting to see steemit succeed. You seem very passionate about the survival of this platform, and it's a pleasure to see that in all honesty.
However, if you are truly passionate about Steemit, and do truly want to see it succeed, then you have also the need to recognise your role in this society, and the damage that you are doing in regards to depleting the minnows trust in the whales and their intentions. As I said to @berniesanders, whether it's fair or not, if this platform is going to succeed then we need to have trust in those of you with the most influence, so you need to be more mindful of your actions and what message they send in future.
Before you flag a post for, being over-valued, I ask that you consider a few things.
What message am I sending to the others who have upvoted this post by my downvoting it?
If there is a lot of complimentary comments on the post and a number of people who valued the content, then your downvote will only lead them to believe that you are another whale abusing the system, lowering payouts on posts so that it can be added to your buddies posts instead. You care about Steemit, so if the community finds value in the post, is that not already enough for you to also to consider it valuable?How hard has this author been working to produce content for Steemit?
As a minnow myself, I can speak to this site(currently) being somewhat like a lottery. I can spend a whole day on a post and receive pennies, repeatedly, until finally I get 50 or so dollars from a useless post that took me minutes. Before being so quick to downvote someones post, consider that they may have had many of their previous posts heavily neglected, and the expected payout on the one you are thinking of downvoting, could be considered recompense for the valuable content they have supplied in the past that was both overlooked and underpaid.
If you do these things, @smooth, I'm sure it will help to bring unity, as well as a much more positive atmosphere to the community.
The road map has finally been released, and I'm very excited about much of what I read in there. In truth though, none of it will matter if we don't start to take steps to heal the wounds of this community.
The most important message here, is let's put the bullshit behind us and try and come together, for I expect we are all going to be here for a long time. I love Steemit, and more so what it represents. I think we are underestimating the potential for this platform to make worldwide and lasting change. We owe it to the world to do our best to make this place a success, for when the rest of humanity looks up one day and sees a decentralized block-chain based site and currency doing more for the people than any centralized power system ever has, they will finally realise the abuse of the system that dominates this world, and will force for it to be changed into something more akin to this.
I have declined payout on this post because I do not want to cheapen the message by it seeming like an attempt to cash in. I simply wanted to share my thoughts with a clear mind before having it clouded with emotional discussion, and this was the best way to do that. To any reading this, I do not think any of these three follow me, so if you could give it a resteem so that it finds them, that would be much appreciated.
Now that I got that off my chest, let's see if I can have any luck writing that article...
Much of this "animosity," so to speak, began long before any of us Steemit.com users came to the platform. My understanding is that there has been tension between at least two of these parties since the initial mining of STEEM began. But I don't know all of the intricate details, so I won't comment any further on that, other than to say that the tension has not been solely based on topics or commentary on this platform.
I believe that this is the biggest mistake that we non-whales can make: Choosing sides in a perceived "conflict" that most users are completely unaware of or do not understand. I'm sure there have been mistakes and regret on both sides but it is not up to the average user to try to resolve conflicts between the founders and other initial/large stakeholders. And taking sides in it is pretty pointless and rather risky as a small stakeholder. It's really not something that you want to be caught in the middle of, unless you don't like receiving rewards or simply want to be a pawn in their battles. It's best to just keep to yourself and do what you think will benefit you in the long-run.
I'm not sure how much you pay attention to voting on this platform, but @berniesanders, @smooth, and many other whales have absolutely supported people who were flagged for less-than-honorable reasons. Likewise, @dantheman and @ned have done the same thing. It's not as simple as "us vs. them" or "good" whales vs. "evil" whales. There are a lot of dynamics at play here. When @berniesanders says something like, "open your eyes," that may be what he's referring to - the fact that, often behind the scenes, you'll find that some of these "evil" whales are in fact funding development, supporting multiple initiatives and other projects, donating money to charities and contests, and are actually receptive to users and their ideas of how to grow and market this platform.
In the case of @berniesanders and @smooth specifically, they are both heavily involved in multiple projects and have donated a lot of their own STEEM/SBDs to fund them. We're talking about thousands and thousands of SBDs that they easily could have pocketed for themselves. How many of the "good" minnows and dolphins can say that, while they continue to criticize and blame these "evil" whales for damaging the platform?
To be clear - I do not agree with everything that they do. I also do not disagree with everything that @dantheman and Steemit, Inc. does either. I spend a lot of time here on Steemit and in the chat channels. I like to think that I have a pretty good understanding of what goes on - at least a much better understanding than the average user.
All of this condemnation of certain whales simply because they don't see eye-to-eye with the founders is ridiculous. And condemning one set of whales for downvoting while praising another for doing the same thing is equally absurd. I think both sides have valid reasons for it and both sides also have what I think are not-so-good reasons. None of these people are 100% right or wrong any time they act. I think it's silly to believe that these are anything but normal people just like you and me who just happen to have a larger share of STEEM.
If we really want to better understand things around here, we need to first understand that we are all people with our own opinions. Some of us have better-informed opinions than others. Some of us have a larger stake in the platform that can make our opinions "more influential" than others. But this notion that one person is right or wrong based on the size of that stake is a little wrong-headed as well. It doesn't matter if the stakeholder is @dan, @ned, @smooth, @berniesanders, you, me, or anyone else.
In the end, none of this really matters to us as regular users on the platform. The only time you're going to draw the wrong kind of attention to you is when you get involved in matters that are related to these whale conflicts. Other than that, you might catch a random flag if your post has a relatively high potential payout. It happens to a lot of people. Just keep in mind that, when it does happen to you, "calling out" the whale that did it in a new "shitpost" is only going to make things worse. Your best bet would be to let it go or to try to contact the person who flagged you - respectfully.
My only other advice would be this: Don't make posts about whales and how they ought to act towards one another if you don't understand the history between them. You don't know the full story. They're not asking you to moderate. And there is plenty of blame to go around - including for the "good guys" who have done plenty to disappoint and even anger many users through their behavior on Steemit.com and elsewhere.
I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't speak your mind, but if you do so, you'll want to make sure that you have a lot of the facts straight. Otherwise, you could end up on the wrong side of flags that you would probably have earned. And it wouldn't be the first time that happened...or likely the last.
"Your best bet would be to let it go or to try to contact the person who flagged you - respectfully."
I wish that worked it would help to understand the reasoning of what happens around here. A simple answer to a (respectfully asked question) could help many understand the actions of others. I think some fail to recognize the importance of communication.
Edit: rephrase. I wish that worked all the time. :)
Yeah, I agree with you there. The way that things are set up currently makes it hard for users to understand why they received a flag if it was given because of "rewards being too high." It's a subjective use of the flag, which, in my opinion, should be accompanied by an explanation. It doesn't need to be a novel, but a quick note wouldn't hurt.
I encourage you to pull data on my flagging rather than making ridiculous assumptions based on the bullshit you hear from others. Until you pull REAL data about my flagging (it's all in the blockchain, right?), including how many account I have taken down to 0 rep or below, I will not entertain any more of your questions. When you have such data, feel free to post it and then we can have a conversation.
This is an excellent response-- to an assumption I did not make.
I was clearly objective and stated that I don't know whether you have done this or not, so what ridiculous assumptions do you refer to?
The irony in this, is that you are making an assumption that I made an assumption. I now wonder if you even read anything I wrote.
Anything? Yes. Everything? No, I generally avoid rants...
Have fun, if you want to have a conversation I'm on steemit.chat. This BS exchange is a waste of my time.
It was not a rant, and there was no anger at all portrayed in the post. If you had read this, you would know that.
I'm going to sleep but, perhaps at some point tomorrow I will.
I'm now going to upvote this with all of my accounts because of the flagging. Feel free to criticize that one as well.
Why are you being an arsehole?
I can attest to the immaturity of setting up bots to auto-downvote a post or a comment without viewing the content, but it is your actions that have led to this happening, not mine.
The image I shared on @dantheman's post shows you upvoting a post--sorry, three posts--to $8 to counteract(apparently) a single minnows downvote? I spoke only on this observation, with good cause. And I also, in this post, said I'm willing to forget about that, but you seem to want to bring it up once again.
I see no reason for you be taking this hostile attitude with me when I am making the effort to start again and see you for who you are, not for who they say you are.
This is hardly doing a good job of convincing me that what I heard was wrong.
I started powering down last night. I done here.
The whales take the heat and the blame for being human and expressing their individual rights and beliefs.
The voting trails are gaming the system. My next and final post will be a break down of that.
Can you elaborate on your second sentence?
i will. it will be my next and final post. promise
I'd rather you did not promise that. I am not a fan of seeing people leave, when I am adamant that things are going to improve.
There really isn't enough Steem to go around. Steemit isn't attracting money, it's attracting people who want money. I had two great posts this week that did awful and they earned very few rewards. I'm tired of watching the guilds control the success of a post and the whales being blamed.
I have 2 websites, one is parked making more in add revenue by typo google searches than the posts I worked hard on. My other is blog which I have neglected for far too long. I would have made more money if I had focused on that rather fighting and stressing over a few dollars on steemit.
I have made more than two articles in the past week, that I would consider to be very good, that have seen less than a dollar. In fact, in two weeks, only one of posts have exceeded a dollar in spite of most of my free time being spent preparing content for Steemit.
I am not thinking about leaving, because I know this wont last forever. I may not have earned any monetary rewards, but I have earned many followers whose support will ensure that once the price rises, I will then see the rewards I missed out on in this early phase.
I also am building connections and having insightful conversations on the platform, which is a reward in itself.
If you have another blog, then why not just post on both that blog, and steemit as well? This way, you will continue to feed your current followers content, and gain new ones while doing it. Then, when STEEM rises in value, you will have a large enough following to be making payouts worthy of your time.
That would be my advice.
I cant reply to your last message cause it's run its course.
Maybe after you read my next post you will understand why that is.
I will give you a follow and look out for it.
I believe having a thorough understanding of people's motives for leaving will be the best source of innovation on how to prevent it from continuing.
don't do it. we should talk in steemit chat
final post ?
I agree.
My only question for you: why do cunts always get a bad rap?
No but seriously, this is the best writing, most honest thing i've seen in a while. I learned something valuable about one of those you mention. He admitted that he didn't 'care'. I found out who it was that no longer cares. There's your answer.
Kuntz Rule.
Lol. I don't know if this is a serious question, but if it is, it's far too difficult to answer. The word cunt is a subjective one to say the least, and I tend to use it synonymously with both person and inconsiderate /rude person.
I think my being from the UK has something to do with it. We have, for the most part, a much more relaxed interpretation of so-called cursed words, and do not feel that they should necessarily be interpreted as offensive.
I think by my definition of cunt, when I'm not using it as another word for a person, it is certainly not something one should aspire to be.
That wasn't really an answer, because you didn't tell me whom you were speaking of. Lol.
Regardless, I don't want to know. I hope to come to my own conclusion on this matter through my own observations and interpretations of the people involved.
Thank you for this. It is a great compliment. I have noticed through a series I have been writing, that when I write an article or a piece of fiction, it garners few comments specific to my writing-- but, when I write something that is true to myself, and carries an opinion rather than objectivity, I seem to get a lot of compliments on the writing.
Perhaps I should write less objective pieces and more personal ones..
This is in demand. We need souls here.
I was teasing you by being on over-the-top female, also pointing out that being a vagina is not a bad thing.....tis where we all came from....
I nominate you for THE CONFLICT RESOLUTION SPECIALIST!
I think I would be great at that. I was forever having to stop my mates from kicking the shit out of each other in my younger years.
i knew it
We are making changes to Steemit to minimize damage of flagging comments of users with good rep.
We still will need a Peace Oracle moving forward. Some things take a special human to accomplish, and peace is one of them.
This is good news and something we desperately need. Would I be correct in presuming, based on your wording, that it will be a case of the higher the rep the less damage a downvote inflicts? Or will it be only users over a certain level of reputation that receive any level of protection?
I read the arguments yesterday, and frankly I didn't see any agreement on a solution, if you think someone is getting too many votes off of his 4 daily posts why don't you reduce the maximum posts to 1? I don't see how anyone can make a reasonably good article 4 times a day except if he is like Hemingway and I haven't read anyone that good on Steemit (maybe @lordvader's articles, but that's because I like his type of humour and he doesn't post that often because making a good article takes time) the only reason people post so much is to make as much as possible, perhaps because they know a whale or two will vote for them.
Also I don't like bots, even though of the few articles I have made I only get about 10 votes and at least half are bots. But if bots don't vote, you would have less flagging, which is what people are most upset about. I also don't think anyone should have more than one account.
That's the way I see it, maybe I am just being dumb.
I disagree. Lowering the post limit is a bad idea. I post articles that I spent a lot of time, that took me the best part of a day. But, I also post shorter ones that are meant to engage my followers in discussion or laughter. Then there is bounty posts, they only take a few minutes.
And as far as quality content, if you're a productive person like @krnel, @thecryptofiend, or @aggroed before he stopped posting(probably because of his shit) then you can get more than one, or even two quality pieces of content up in a day.
I agree that bots can be a problem though, especially auto-downvote bots. These should be banned.
Ok, sure, see we agree on one thing I think that's the way things can be fixed on Steem.
As for the posts things (I guess I only speak for myself, I am not not much of a writer), then how about a person only voting once a day for a specific author? Actually I personally don't care if a person makes a lot of money on not so great posts, I am just trying out ideas that can help Steem overcome this problem.
Again I think that would be a bad idea, because people would just vote for their friends or their alt accounts and none of the STEEM would be distributed effectively.
All ideas are good ideas, for they serve to eliminate the bad ones and give cause to create better ones. So this is why I think we need a lot more discussion like this, and those with the means to implement change ought to pay attention-- at least to the refined, finished proposals.
You are "receiving pennies, repeatedly" because too much of the rewards are going to posts repeatedly and consistently overrewarded and upvoted by whales including both @ozchartart and @krnel. (FWIW, until recently I do not believe I have voted for either.)
Respectfully I disagree on this point. I evaluate the value that the content brings or demonstrates. "Effort" alone (whether it is digging holes and filling them up or writing long posts that won't attract a large user base to read or compete with) is not evidence of value, only cost.
I'm glad this post managed to find you.
I'm not complaining about my pennies, just making a point that there are tons out there who are receiving next to nothing on most posts, so when they finally have a successful one that then gets flagged, it can be quite a blow.
Also, I haven't a problem with good content being rewarded, even if it is at my own expense. I don't attribute my low payouts to the success of others, but rather to an undervalued price in STEEM that limits the amount of people that can currently achieve success. The undervalued price of STEEM, I attribute to the less than desirable atmosphere which is repelling new users. If we can work on that, then we may see more people adopting the platform, and a rise in the value of STEEM. With a larger pot size, we can all--that are deserving of it--get paid for our work.
On that note, I respectfully ask that if you are ever considering downvoting a post that you feel is overvalued so that I might get the opportunity to receive a payout, please do not. I think downvotes should be reserved for plagiarism, spam, and hate speech. Opinion based flagging is ruining this environment.
I think you have influence and you should have a right to utilise it, but if you try to be more positive in your use of it, by rewarding good content rather than punishing content you don't approve of, we will see the fear in this community subside and the bad vibes felt towards whales negated.
You appear to have misinterpreted me. I was not stating that all effort should be rewarded. I meant that, someone who you downvote, may have posted ten great posts that were very valuable to the site in the past week, but because of the small reward pool and large competition, received no reward. The payout on the post you are thinking of downvoting, could be deserved for previous posts that were valuable but underpaid.
Think of it this way.. If someone has been working hard on here, putting in a lot of effort to no avail, they reach a point where they're thinking, "I'm only going to have one or two more goes at this, and if I don't make something, then I'm out of here." This is an understandable position, if someone is putting in the time, as if it were a job, and not being rewarded, then obviously they're going to think about leaving.
Then on that last post when they're feeling disheartened, they finally get some results. This restores their faith in Steemit and they plan to make more and more content to get that feeling again. However, a whale comes a long, and despite that person posting content in the previous week that the whale may have upvoted had they seen it, this whale decides that this particular post is undeserving, and so they flag it.
That enthusiasm takes a blow and the user leaves the site. This is not a far fetched, nor a non-existent instance on this site. I myself was feeling disheartened before @curie showed up to give me a much needed kick up the arse. The point I was attempting to portray is that when considering a downvote we should, at least while the pot is limited, not look at the value of an author on a post by post basis, but on their value to the community as a whole and whether they will serve to produce content that will in future be of value to new comers.
Am I making any sense to you at all?
I'd suggest debating that with Dan. He's far more influential when it comes to Steem/it than I am. He and others believe that downvoting based on value and rewards is essential. Perhaps you can change his mind. If there is a general shift on this, or possibly design changes in the system to address the issues another way, then I would be happy to adjust. But for now I do think it is needed.
I recognize and to some extent agree with what you wrote about not disheartening brand new users who finally have a successful post, but frankly I don't see that as even happening. Certainly neither @ozchartart nor @krnel fit that description.
Well, I have seen it happening. My memory is not the best, but I'm sure in one recent instance the username was something like @tim. It is happening, and it's disheartening not only the ones who suffer it, but people who will in turn put less effort into their posts because they think, why put so much effort into this when it might get flagged anyway..
I want to take a moment to thank you for being able to converse in a mature manner. In responding to other messages, your adult demeanor becomes more evident.
I'm pretty sure that it happened to me back in the week of August 7th, unless there's another explanation for how my reputation reached 55.59 that week and was down to 40.24 by the next week (data pulled from steemwhales.com).
I can see that you still haven't regained your lost reputation as of yet.
I feel you should have responded to @smooth's comment with this rather than mine, because I know this is happening. It is he/she that seems to be unaware of it.
I will give you a follow and resteem anything you post that I enjoy so that you might get back some of your lost rep at a quicker rate.
EDIT: It appears I'm already following you. You must have impressed me prior to this post.
I think you both make good points here. I wouldn't ever suggest rewarding "effort" or "hours" put in on any job if it was unproductive. But I can also agree that there are productive users who get rewarded essentially nothing. That's why I proposed the "hindsight average rewards" for early voters on the posts of users who go on to become succefull in a later stage.
I also want to say that while I respect krnel and a lot of his work, I also disagree on how much he should get rewarded because I think the information he puts out is often faulty or at least not of the same value to Steem as such as many other posts. @ozchartart I've defended to some extent because of how his content has been argued against, but I also don't think it ought to be valued very highly.
I still think that the flag icon should be removed ASAP and downvotes should be reformed in order to curb some of the soft "censorship" imposed by a single or a few large whiles, usually just because of a disagreement on rewards. These issues should not have to be discussed as a single topic called "flagging", but there should ultimately be either only a downvote button, or both a downvote and a flag available for different purposes.
I think you have a lot of good ideas from what I have been reading. Perhaps you should make a post compiling them all together?
Was too confusing wasn't it? ; ) haha, but thanks! I'll try to make a post about the more important issues if I can fit it into the overall agenda for my blog.
My blog is all over the place. My username is son-of-satire and I haven't written a satirical piece in months. I think i produce too much diverse content on the one blog, I should probably look into have multiple accounts with different types of content, so that people will more easily be able to decide whether or not to follow me.
I look forward to reading the refined proposals of your ideas.
Beautifully put @son-of-satire , we all want to progress ... nothing to add which will enhance this generous and self-deprecating honesty.
Can't we all just get along?
I think we can. We just need to find that common ground that each and every one of us share in one way or another.
Can't help but agree... Whilst we have whales squabbling over rubbish, we have minnows and dolphins cashing out. This sort of thing just damages a community, and everyone loses.
There are fully 7 billion people that just don't care about this subject.
When those billions get here to find out about it, they still won't care, but may be amused/entertained.
Let those boys vote however they please, we are just dust in the wind,...
Is this meant to be comforting? It's only out of top-down lack of empathy and compassion that we we develop bottom-up apathy, IMO.
It's only through a lack of empathy and compassion that there is a top or bottom.
There's a real "parent-child relationship" that will almost always exist, at some level (if only subconsciously), for everyone - some may call it "looking up to a role-model" and some may not even realize, consciously, that they're framing someone else in that manner.
Of course, the actual parent-child relationship is what really impresses one's mind. A lack of compassion from one's own mother, or legal guardian, is almost a sure way of leading to psychological suffering in that child, which will continue to manifest until the moment that it's met with adequate compassion (either from within or from outside). And a continued display of lacking compassion from other authority figures, such as school teachers, will only compound those problems.
I agree!!
This is some heavy Steemit related shit going on, I feel I just read the script for the geekiest soap opera ever lol. I hope this post help you vent out things in the air and nothing but positive things to all people mentioned in your post.
I wish your comment could be considered outrageous, but it genuinely is soap opera-esque. I have a lot of optimism that it will be resolved before long though.
I detect somewhat of a condescending tone in this particular writing of yours, especially the use of certain, choice words ("cunt" comes to mind, here).
That having been transferred from grey to white, I'm not opposed to having some of the aggressive behaviors, passive or not, between the top community members fleshed out and hopefully, ultimately squashed, as I fully share in your sentiment that it's unhealthy for the Steemit community as a whole.
Cunt is a much more offensive word in some countries while in others it's a frequent part of conversation.
I didn't feel @son-of-satire was being condescending, but that he was pleading from the heart for someone to make a conciliatory move. In NZ, cunt would usually mean that someone is being more unpleasant or aggressive than is necessary.
Thanks, I was debating editing the text but, this allowed me to be lazy.
I think if I had used my voice there would be no one perceiving it as condescending, but a lot can be lost in translation without tone of voice.
Yes, that's very much the drawback in written communication.
There is no condescending tone--at least not an implied one. That is simply how I talk. Though now I worry that my message shall be perceived in a manner other than it was intended.
I'm glad you agree.
I agree, in America, you very rarely hear anyone say Cunt. It is not part of our everyday conversation at all, and is used generally only in very vulgar movies. But I do notice it used a lot more with a couple of my british friends.
Well, I never use the word in terms of a vagina, unless I'm intentionally trying to be vulgar.
I feel it is perhaps the anatomical connotation that leads Americans to find it distasteful, but in the UK, I'd say 9/10 times the word is used it is not in reference to a body part, but merely a person.
What would "cunt" mean if it didn't mean "pussy"/"vagina" in the same derogatory sense as "dick" or a"asshole" are used? Just curious...
I'm not sure I understand the question..
Steemit isn't a lottery, as much as it is a scratch ticket. There was about a two month era, when just about anyone could take a medium sized crap on their keyboard and pay their rent for three years, but I missed it by a week.
I tried to come up with something to say about saving Steemit. All I could muster was "meh". I'll probably try to continue to post things that benefit my core followers, but other than that, it doesn't look to me like very many people care. If I can find something better to do, I'll probably do it. I definitely won't be trying to talk anyone else into joining. Whatever, Lates.
Well, your opening paragraph speaks to your predominant reason for being on Steemit as financial, so I can understand your apathy towards making an effort to help.
I on the other hand see way more value in this site than that of a monetary nature, and so, I don't plan to reduce my efforts to help this platform any time soon.
I hope that you change your mind here, because I feel a successful Steemit could benefit so many people. At the moment, Steemit is the community. If this sentiment you express continues to grow then we are surely doomed to failure.
Financial is not remotely the only reason I've been here. If it was, I'd already be long gone. Most of the other reasons have been rendered moot. Financial is one of only couple left. The other reasons can be much better served elsewhere. I would be wary of jumping on a quip and assuming volumes. When I do it, I usually don't come out looking very good. Some of my favorite people have already been driven away from here. I think it's funny how smooth thinks that flagging people's hard work is going to help attract a large user base. It's hilarious. Predictable for someone whose blog looks like an empty parking lot. He says curation is more important than content, but without content there would be no purpose at all for curation. Here is the reference.
https://steemit.com/knowledge/@krnel/is-this-quality-knowledge-i-put-out-not-helpful-to-steemit-flagged-for-quality-getting-rewarded#@smooth/re-lifeworship-re-the-ego-is-you-re-lifeworship-re-krnel-is-this-quality-knowledge-i-put-out-not-helpful-to-steemit-flagged-for-quality-getting-rewarded-20170115t220116000z
I will continue to try to benefit the, approximately, two dozen people who seem to think my content is of value. I won't be able to spend as much time on here as I'd like, because time is still money, to some extent, and I'm not independently wealthy, and entitled, like some. Don't fret, though, if the most powerful people on Steemit only log in to sh*t on people, it won't be around long.
I didn't realise last night but, I had already seen this. And I mentioned my distaste for it to @smooth on @dantheman's post a couple of days ago. I hadn't read the comments until now however, and was very surprised by what I found there. It seems we have a bigger task on our hands than I initially though. Still, I'm not giving up so easily.
I'm glad I was wrong. I'm going to have to read that tomorrow because I'm simply too tired and my eyes are starting to fail looking at this bright monitor.
Have a good night-
I will keep my comment very short here, but I flag only based on the current rules/guidelines laid out by the rigid part of whatever platform I use.
I simply don't have time for a platform where users always have to ask around what is currently an acceptable way to post, upvote or downvote. I don't support traditional "anarchism" in that sense, because it leads to collectivism and chaos for anyone who is not in on the cults rules. I support anarcho-capitalism, contracts and practical social agreements.
If Steem and Steemit.com combined can not promote such an enviroment, then there is no chance that most people would abandon a "safe" alternative such as Facebook or Youtube.
Are you up for an idea? Something I need to discuss with you.
You have piqued my curiosity now, so sure.
are you on steemit chat?
Yes, I logged in after your comment and responded to your message on there.
ok i'll go there soon
How do you make that leap? Why should we automatically assume that site drama dissuades people from joining? A counterexample: drama causes people to give movie theaters their money.
There is a difference between viewing drama on a screen and becoming a part of it yourself.
You have to signup to be a part of it. :)
Exactly.