Steemit's Cultural Standards: How To Deal With Sociopathic Trolls & Abusive, Potential Criminals...?

in #steemit9 years ago

My day started with a question posed in a private message:

"Have any ideas on how to deal with crazy, sociopathic fucktards on steemit?"

While I had a dozen other articles lined up to complete, THIS took priority, as it's a matter of great importance to be addressed.

While there may be no direct answer to the question, there are some very important points, perspectives, and questions to be raised in regards to the matter that are critical to invest our time in discussing at this point, early on in the formation of Steemit's cyber-culture.

The question was raised due to the abusive activities of an unreasonably aggressive, sexist, disrespectful, abusive user harassing a number of users, putting a significant segment of the Steemit community at great dis-ease. We're not talking just a harmless troll. Rather, serious concern was expressed over what damage this guy has done or might do - having demonstrated the textbook characteristics of a harmful, criminal sociopathic.

It's been clear to many who have been investing their heart & souls contribution to Steemit's growth that the core philosophy the venture was founded upon placing Integrity, honorable character, respectfulness, and positive reputation amongst its highest guiding values, principles of acceptable conduct, and ideals towards which community members shall continually strive towards. However, it is inevitable that people will come onto the site who embody the total opposite and create waves of hatred, bigotry, and all-around nastiness.

While Steemit also places value on the freedom of speech and absence of censorship, and everyone is free to downvote/flag posts & comments they find abusive - having members of this site so deeply disturbed by simply-unacceptable behavior raises the valid debate of how the Steemit community is best off responding to such users.

Can we stop it? Probably not.

Might we be able to instill certain cultural codes within the community that minimize, detract, and ward off such individuals that threaten the safety, comfort, and dignity of Steemit's members? Perhaps.

Concrete solutions as to how we are to deal with such matters may never be possible. Yet, it is viable to come an understanding and agreement upon cultural standards that enable us to adapt to ongoing conflicts like this responsibly, maturely, and wisely in order to maintain the integrity of Steemit's evolving culture and its commitment to serving, supporting, and empowering its members in their health, happiness, and shared wealth...



While it'd be possible to draw attention to the offending individual, who has instigated a state of disturbance by stalking, threatening, and playing mind games - classic trolling behavior taken to extreme incompatible with the vision Steemians have invested in - I choose to keep his identity anonymous for two reasons:

1.Out of respect for him, regardless of the inappropriateness of his behavior.

2.So as to not draw attention to him in particular and stimulate more engagement in his dramas.

Without diving too deep into psychology - such hostile, hateful, disrespectful individuals often try pull shit like this off to gain attention, for the thrill of upsetting others. To feed this and respond to their provocations only gives them what they want, fuelling the fire.

Sometimes ignoring them might not work either as a means of disarming their misplaced aggression. So what is an effective middle ground, to set appropriate boundaries and establish clear guidelines to make it 100% crystal fucking clear that being a complete fucking asshole is simply un-fucking-acceptable in this community, and they had better crawl back under their lowly, shit-encrusted bridge if they aren't willing to upgrade their character to show some basic human decency and honor the dignity of fellow community members...?



The sociopath in question is not the problem. If he were to choke on his own word vomit and drop off the face of this earth tomorrow, there will still likely be other trolls who may make their way onto this site and attempt the same B.S.

As such, the question becomes: how do we - as a community committed to upholding the values of respecting & honoring our members with the most basic of human decencies - establish a transformative environment in which such offensive individuals are either respectfully confronted and offered the non-negotiable choice of playing by fair, integrity-based rules (and perhaps even influenced to change their fucked up ways), or dismissed due to their inability to mature enough to cease exemplifying the behavior of a rude, revolting psychopath?

(It may be difficult to put ourselves in the place of someone who has encountered such horrific treatment. While I'm committed to respecting the privacy of individuals involved in the specific situation, I promise you the members on the receiving end of the sociopath's attacks have been significantly shaken up.)

What agreement shall we come to on what is an appropriate cultural protocol to adhere to in such cases: do we leave these people to fend for themselves against emotional & intellectual abuse within our shared cyberspace? What can we do to discourage bullying, sadistic behavior which severly compromises the dignity and safety of our fellow Steemians?

Should anybody be granted access to this playground of ours with the right to emotionally torture others with the extreme opposite of courtesy, expected from only the most severely mentally-ill of the lowest human degenerates?

If its clear that "trolls" displaying such extremes of prejudice, disrespect, and hostility are in fact mentally, emotionally, and spiritually ill - do we hold any responsibility at all for how they impact orhers in the community? While they may not abide by our cultural codes & philosophical ideals, would it be upholding those ideals by condemning them for the effects of an illness they may have no control over? Or where can reasonable boundaries be drawn while maintaining a commitment to the value of compassion for them and their pain & conflict driving such behavior, just as we might maintain compassion for the "victims" of their irrational, misguided hostility...?



The challenge is, there are no clear-cut answers to these dilemmas.

Yes, we can downvote the shit out of these twits. But that clearly has not proven to be a solution. Flagging hasn't worked, and if it's to be effective in preventing serious abuse, there need to be some sort of upgrades to the flagging algorithms.

One suggestion was offered by @recursive:

"Steemit needs some equivalent of the Reddit karma. It doesn't have to be on-chain and can be computed by Steemit.com based on the number of downvotes other posts from the poster have garnered in the past. Comments of posters with lower Karma would appear lower in the list, and comments from posters with consistently negative karma would appear collapsed by default or would not appear at all. To avoid blacklisting indefinitely a poster, karma can be computed using an exponentially weighted moving average applied to a sliding window over a specific period of time (a week or a month for instance). This would allow the poster to redeem himself by posting constructively once his past offences are old enough to have less weight in the karma calculation. However, due to the lack of past positive content diluting the penalty, should the poster keep posting offensive content after being rehabilitated, the algorithm would blacklist him again right away.

Level of blacklisting can be tiered in three tiers depending on the level of karma:

sent to bottom of thread
bottom of thread + collapsed by default
not even displayed
This would only apply to steemit.com, and not to the blockchain that would remain unchanged."



Though aside from that - could we perhaps implement a process for voting out users who repeatedly violate the basic rights of community members? While we don't want to censor anyone - might it be acceptable to establish rules protecting the most fundamental human rights of our members from such offensive attacks (regardless of the particular group being harrassed)...?

Do we leave every community member to defend them self against potentionally psychopathic stalkers?

Are we to avoid interfering, expecting victims of unacceptable behavior to do "their best" to just ignore such crazy motherfuckers, as though it's not a serious matter?

Do we step into discussion and engage the sociopaths' desire for drama? If so, with what approach might we be most likely to firmly set boundaries, in a way that would be received & respected so as to either influence a change in the offender's behavior or drive him away from the community?



Regardless of the crudeness anyone might display here, I do feel it's important that regardless of how we respond, it is done so with respect and compassion.

Trying to preach or convince anyone clearly not well may not effective, nor is logic likely to work when dealing with trolls bent on their own egoic domination over a conversation.

Perhaps ultimately, the best thing we can do is to lead by example.

For all the reasons a bitter, spiteful person might attack, harass, and abuse anyone else - none are an excuse for compromising our own integrity by biting for their bait.

Sometimes total non-engagement might be appropriate. At other times, a conscious, mature, insightful remark - given to someone expecting their hate to be thrown back at them - might go a lot farther in transforming the dynamic of the interaction than one would think.

Perhaps a workable solution might be to just throw nothing but genuine love at the guy, creating such a massive pattern interrupt that it snaps him right out of the behavior - confused, humbled, and defenseless.

Or maybe there's times where some tough love is needed.



I really don't know the answers.

But sooner or later, we're likely to deal with people who test and challenge us to come up with and implement the answers.

Unfortunately, it already has been happening. Or perhaps, fortunately - as dealing with it at this point while the site is still young may enable us to establish cultural standards and protocols for effectively dealing with such behavior, before the floodgates open and an army of trolls arrives thinking they can get away with the same behavior they're used to on Facebook or elsewhere.

Either way...

Please set a positive example. Here and elsewhere in your life.

Be respectful. Be honorable. Maintain your dignity & integrity. Be a genuinely kind, good person.

If someone steps out of line and needs a reality check, deliver it maturely with compassion and wisdom.

If we ALL commit to such conduct, this simple act will go a long ways in establishing an environment here that is warm, welcoming, safe, supportive, and empowering for all.

That may be an unrealistic ideal, given human nature. But it's one worth striving towards...



#steemit #steemit-community #flagging #steemit-safety #steemit-culture #steemit-sociopath #steemit-sociopaths #sociopath #sociopaths #sociopathic #respect #cultural-codes #steem-culture #cultural-standards #steemitabuse #steemit-abuse #steem-abuse #steemit-voting #steemit-votes #steemit-downvote #steemit-downvote #downvote #down-vote #downvoting #down-voting #steemit-politics #voting-politics #steem-votes #steem-voting #trending-votes #trending-downvotes #steemit-security #steemit-psychology #steem-thought #steemhelp #steem-help #security #steemit-safety #member-safety #safety #steemit-integrity

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I had to wind myself down from this previous conversation I was engaged in. In my case, it wasn't an abusive troll but a couple of guys wondering aloud if homosexuality is inherited from a past life as a consequence for too much sex.

By the time it was clear that not even a modicum of reason was to break through, I took the tact of just politely ending the conversation. I'm hoping we can all do this for each other when we come across conversations that challenge our patience.

For reference, this was the post. I'm not sharing to flame the guy, but just to share my first face palm moment on Steemit and how I think we can still (sometimes mistakenly) engage and are justified in disengaging.


The "discussion" goes down in the commentshttps://steemit.com/homosexuality/@miguel12/the-cause-of-homosexuality

Nice that you didn't insult them for not supporting your view! Upvoted. This is what the STEEM whitepaper espoused.

I probably should not have initiated conversation in the first place, but I spent 7 years in the military having to lie about stupid things like what gender I was approved to like. Since I don't know him or the culture and environment he's from, I didn't want to attack the person, just talk to them and try to get them to see me as more than a consequence of a past life. I figure this is what Steemit is going to excel at, crossing cultural boundaries without fear of censorship

What is reason? You call your belief system reason and his a mistake.

I was one of the people involved in that conversation. You think you are right just because the majority agrees with you. I asked you to please provide evidence of his beliefs being wrong and you completly turned around my question.

How is it that majority is right?

Added: If the majority had been always right you wouldn't be able to be open about your sexuality anytime in time. Do you see what I mean?

At no point did I say I was categorically correct and he false. I tried to converse to sway him to my opinion that our lives are more than just payback for "past lives".

What you wanted was for me to provide evidence for his opinions as though his were fact and it was my job to prove them wrong. That isn't my job. He could no more prove my opinion wrong than I his, and I didn't see you ask whether he could provide proof or evidence against mine.

The next time you feel you know what I think, please come with something better than the fallacy that the majority agrees with me. I never said that and it is clearly a red herring. The conversation became intellectually weak and could no longer support my participation. In part thanks to comments like yours that are less about the discourse and mire about being combative and putting words where none existed.

I "feel" I know what you think because you stated it in your post.

--------quote----

So you're calling homosexuality a defect that comes from the adulterous behavior of the parents? With all due respect, no. Just. no.

There is nothing wrong with gay, just with the people who think it's a negative thing, like you. There may be something wrong with you if you truly believe that a person becomes gay as a punishment or because their parents were sluts. That being said, there's nothing wrong with sluts either.

What is wrong is that your idea assumes that gay is incorrect somehow, without any evidence.

----- end ---------------

That "feels" like saying you were categorically correct and he false, to me.

dude we got to the bottom of what he actually believes and it can summed up by the three points I made at the end of the post in question.

He believes Hollywood is gay, being gay is a punishment for bad sexual behavior, and rape victims are responsible for their own rape in this life because they raped someone in a past life. It took several replies to get it clear, but go ahead and cherry pick my first post. Anyone who blames rape victims for their own rape and thinks gay sex is a punishment is bound for difficult conversations

This is my final post about it here, I don't want to hijack the comments section of this thread.

He wasn't offensive

He was just stating his beliefs. It was you who told him there is something wrong with him. So you need to prove that.

he said it was a consequence. not that it was wrong.

And you come and post about your comment there, here, because you think/know the majority will agree with you, and look down on him

He didn't say it was wrong, he said it was consequence, just like you stated

>> a couple of guys wondering aloud if homosexuality is inherited from a past life as a consequence for too much sex.

He also said later in the same way, he doesn't believe begging is wrong, but he believes beggars were greedy and rich in past lives.

Anyways, all the time we are talking about what he said or didn't, we are referring to actions. He talked about actions

On the contrary, you state that there is something wrong with him. That is why I asked you to prove it

Don't feed troll, that's all. He'll die quickly. There is no need to downvote him because he sees it as sign of attention to his person.
But another problem appears here - posts with porno, nasty ads and all. For these - downvote as fast as possible, otherwise this shit will be everywhere. I did it already.

Oh but down voting is fun! This is a good point tho.

""Have any ideas on how to deal with crazy, sociopathic fucktards on steemit?"

This language is abusive and shows you to be no better than the abusers.

You can't talk about treating them with "respect" when you're already casting them in a negative light, like they're wrong by default and you're right.

If you believe their behaviour is inappropriate, ask them to cease or you will press charges. Or simply ignore them. Or debate with them and show them why they're wrong with logic.

That's how problems are solved with civility.

If you notice the details, it was a quoted question.
Thanks for this perspective, @positive . I see the validity of it and can agree with you on it.

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Tell us how your really feel. :)

I have no idea who this person is and I have no doubt he is is the degenerate you describe him to be but please practice what your preach. In your words.:

Please set a positive example. Here and elsewhere in your life.

Be respectful. Be honorable. Maintain your dignity & integrity. Be a genuinely kind, good person.

If someone steps out of line and needs a reality check, deliver it maturely with compassion and wisdom.

If we ALL commit to such conduct, this simple act will go a long ways in establishing an environment here that is warm, welcoming, safe, supportive, and empowering for all.

You were dropping f bombs about this guy calling him potentially mentally diseased and essentially called him sub-human. Not much compassion.

I get really worried when people who want to be the gate keepers of polite behavior, quality content and rules of conduct sometimes don't apply those rules to themselves.

I know you hold great power here and I have very little but won't the algorithms of voting down and ignoring them work so much better than creating algorithms of censorship? We and particular you have the power to vote everything these people down to nothingness to make their experience unsatisfying.

I truly do appreciate your opinion and did enjoy your take on the matter.

thanks for this, @coinz. I agree with you on this.

Great write up Rok. Personally I believe we shouldn't engage these type of people. In my life I have learned to live by the rules that irrational people can't be rationed with, so don't even bother.

This is a big problem with the internet in general. Otherwise normal people sometimes turn into monsters behind the veil of anonymity. One solution would be to have everyone use their real names. This would deter a lot of people but could be misused without some means of confirming identity.

It could also discourage people from talking about certain subjects which they for various reasons do not feel comfortable doing without being anonymous e.g. things which they are ashamed or which they don't want family to know about.

Hard as it is the one thing that really "hurts" trolls is ignoring them. I know there is already a MUTE function - perhaps an IGNORE function like Bitcointalk may prove useful in this sense, particularly if it is apparent to the troll that they are being ignored. As the ignores pile up they might be forced to change their ways.

Steemit Trolls are no different from any other troll. The easy way to deal with them is just pretend you don't even notice them and they will go away.

I always hear this response, but the trolls never seem to go away. I am fairly positive it will take a public dialogue to get rid of the nonsense, as people use the Internet as an excuse to lash out and express the worst things that humanity can come up with. "Ignoring" doesn't work.

What about a "troll-bot"?

They would never tire.

oh God, please no. lol :-)

Although, such much provide excellent training in how to respond...

Maybe firing squad of anti-troll bots? But there is danger of friendly fire

Ignore - this is the most effective way

Just ignore those who envy and jealous. If we keep entertaining all these fellas, time will be wasted. Steem on guys!

I already wrote something about this argument and in a couple of words, trolls are to be ignored completely even if they keep posting and posting. They will get tired of doing it eventually.

apart from the mute button and downflagging (silencing) I don't think other measures are needed unless someone is engaging in criminal behaviour (as defined by law and not by your personal interpretation of morality) , in which case a bot could be allocated to perma-silence the offender or in extreme cases even reported to the police.
I've seen people's posts on steemit being silenced all other the place. so the downflagging is working. infact I'd say it is way too effective and being abused to silence posts which are not in any way offensive but simply some whale didn't like. silencing of posts should only be for abusive or offensive tweets, not for arbitrary censorship !

Not everyone's going to commit to such noble conduct. I mean, maybe some will, but not many are going to live up to it. But you are absolutely right, it's something we must strive for.

Meanwhile, any time you come across a troll, flag them, and them ignore them. Remember, a troll only loses if they are ignored. If you see a troll causing a lot of issues in multiple threads, make a post about it so the good steemers know who to flag and avoid.

The short stoy : Help pleople,that's all.do it

The good and loyal will stay and Steeeeeeemmmm. The rotten ones will rotttttt away. Keep up the good work, guys!

I was wondering if the really big whales are setting themselves up to be harassed since everyone can see their account value, and have posted pictures of themselves. Seems like a recipe for disaster!

Oh how we long for some good ole' Political Correctness!! Like it was on Facebook, that was so nice! How can we bring it here too? Damn it, we can't. But how, perhaps, could we still do it by wording it differently so we appear really pitiful and abused emotionally?

This absence of proper Political Correctness is bad for our health! Cmon Steem, it's the year 2016, do something!

I really don't know the answers.

Honesty.

Thanks for your article , I did not read the full article but I will read it to the end , I just want to thank you first

Not only women do this, you know

But women do it best.

Welcome to world without laws without police without lawyers . everyone is faceless here or faceness lol how do we call someone with lots of faces , yea that right faces hahahaha :p

So needed...thank you!

Trolls will never die... unfortunately

trolls are sometimes good and sometimes bad. it is sometimes good cos, i have seen newbies appreciating other for great assistance, and sometimes bad cos, some come to the troll to talk nonsence

A cognizable post :)

Everyone always responds "ignore it"...that doesn't work.

It hasn't worked in the past, and it doesn't work now. We have to stop pretending these people are harmless. They are ruining public dialogue and discourse. It's not that they shouldn't be "allowed", but to not acknowledge them as a problem does more harm than good.

"Ignoring" a problem has never worked in the history of man for "solving" a problem.

Not with that attitude.

I say we abduct trolls and abusive members to send them to Area 51 to be blasted off into the galaxy.

https://steemit.com/area/@steve-mcclair/area-51-steemit-has-arrived

Or we can just "probe" them.

My brother has a tendancy to drive anyone up a wall and he does so with pride. If you don't acknowledge the behavior it stops. It usually gets worse at first but then stops. These people crave attention. If the do not get it through trolling they change their behavior to accommodate their needs in a different way.

Great article. For the most part, I think the design of the Steemit system does a great job at discouraging trollish behaviour.

There's always going to be a few scumbags though, and they will figure out ways to create new accounts when they get banned.

My idea:
Perhaps there should be a daily "Sin Bin". I've read others talk about this idea before, describing it as a sort "correctional dungeon"...

If an account gets enough negative attention (relative to its positive attention) it would be muted for, say, 24 hours.

Note though I said relative to it's positive attention .. the point being that it should be perfectly acceptable to be a controversial figure that gets similar doses of positive and negative attention (think Milo Yiannopoulos or any other vocal celeb)

The sin bin would presumably also be public. Anyone could go into the sin bin and choose to mute people in there.

Something like that maybe.

thanks for your input. I'm a bit shocked as to why it got flagged. guess we can't see who flagged, versus used to be able to see who downvoted. too bad, as it's a valid contribution to the discussion.

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