We all know that steem is open sourced, but steemit.com is very much not.
Steemit.com is a centralized website owned and operated by Steemit, Inc. while the steem blockchain is an open source project with many apps built on top of it.
Some interesting things have been coming up lately in regards to the intellectual property rights of steemit.com
There have been several "clones" of steemit.com popping up over the past few months that look almost identical to steemit.com with only some minor changes in colors and a logo/name change.
The rest of it, almost identical.
I won't name the ones I am referring to here, but just know that there are more than one out there.
My question is, can they do this?
I am no attorney and not at all up to speed on intellectual property rights laws, but from doing a quick google search it sounds like these clones may be breaking copyright laws.
This is from the steemit.com website:
“Steemit,”, the Steemit logo and any other product or service names, logos, slogans that may appear on the Service are trademarks of Steemit, Inc., and, may not be copied, imitated, or used, in whole or in part, unless explicitly permitted or without first receiving written permission from us to do so. The look and feel of steemit.com and the Service is protected by copyright © Steemit, Inc. All rights reserved. You may not duplicate, copy, or reuse any portion of the HTML/CSS, Javascript, or visual design elements or concepts without express written permission."
(Source: https://steemit.com/tos.html)
This last part is of particular interest to me:
"The look and feel of steemit.com and the Service is protected by copyright © Steemit, Inc. All rights reserved. You may not duplicate, copy, or reuse any portion of the HTML/CSS, Javascript, or visual design elements or concepts without express written permission."
Reading that, it sounds very much like these clones are violating intellectual property rights unless they have received permission from Steemit, Inc. which I highly doubt is the case.
(Source: https://steemit.com/steemit/@mariannewest/would-i-start-a-steemit-clone)
Hmm... what happens next?
If that is the case and copyright laws are being violated, will Steemit, Inc. be taking legal action against any of these clones that pop up?
What do you think, are my readings and interpretations of this correct, are these steemit.com clones violating intellectual property rights?
Hopefully someone much smarter than I has some insight on this interesting development.
Let me know in the comments section below.
Stay informed my friends.
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I would like to see some of these steemit clones. If they have original code than it would be much harder to make a case.
Condenser (the software running Steemit.com) is indeed open source.
https://github.com/steemit/condenser
https://github.com/steemit/condenser/blob/master/doc/LICENSE.md
Basically they can use the code in the above repository, but not the logo or name Steemit.
So "the look and feel" are not protected in any way?
"The look and feel of steemit.com and the Service is protected by copyright © Steemit, Inc. All rights reserved. You may not duplicate, copy, or reuse any portion of the HTML/CSS, Javascript, or visual design elements or concepts without express written permission."
https://steemit.com/tos.html
Copyright law doesn’t protect “look and feel”. It protects text, images, sound and video.
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So, is the wording wrong on the steemit.com website then? See the link above.
I think it is common to claim more than copyright law actually protects. Patent law can protect "look & feel" but copyright is pretty limited in this respect.
Did an expert copyright lawyer actually look at this clause or did they just copy it from somewhere else?
Of that I have no idea. Just been going off of what I can find doing a few google searches and steemit searches.
Presumably they're not allowed to imitate the look and feel outside of the code which is in that repository. If there's code on Steemit.com which isn't in the condenser repository and they copied it, then they could be violating copyright.
There's two ways they could have gone.
If steemit.com and STINC will begone, will STEEM be gone with them?
I ask because in order to register to busy.org one should authorize it throgh steemconnect, and have a steemit.com account prior.
You're already registered with Busy.org, it's the same Blockchain and same account system. SteemConnect is just a way to grant the application the authority to post with your account (an alternative to using your private keys directly on the site every time).
I remember that there was a time when only steemit was down, and only people whom had already registered to busy when steemit was up could use busy, because steemconnect was down too.
Those whom wanted to register to busy could not do it.
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That was because SteemConnect was down. They were using the same RPC node IIRC, when we should have apps using different API endpoints ideally.
SteemConnect is used to make a transaction which grants an application the authority to make posts on your behalf. If it's down, Busy won't work until it's back or it finds another way to let you post (either use another app to create the account-update transaction which modifies your account authority settings or start letting you use your private keys on the site).
If you have granted the authority before, there's no need to wait on SteemConnect.
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Interesting. Thanks for the explanation.
Well that is easy enough to find out. lol. https://github.com/smokenetwork/webapp
The problem with your "licensing" claim saying not okay. Is with enforcement. How can steemit enforce this, if an app is released on IPFS? they can't. seed nodes = you cant take it down. Once enough people request or demand an app it will be seeded no matter what. Pirate bay's example rings true. Kazaa, Or usenet, whatever else you want to point to. they all violate IP and exist.
That would be a matter for the courts. The courts can absolutely shut down websites in certain jurisdictions. Again it seems like we are arguing two different things. Steem is open sourced but steemit.com is a website built on top of steem.
That's what turns me off about those sites.
The creators have no ideas of their own, they can't create so they shouldn't even be called creators or founders.
Dang bro that’s a bit of information I did not know about the web interface, so we are good to duplicate the chain but when it comes to the front end we are not?
Now have they released a github including the web interface? I’d imagine that would through out the claim for intellectual property being open source?
If it is so and they can file a claim I would think it could be a good thing, legal standings if ruled in favour would work towards building reputation of the platform as a whole. Yet I wonder about complications of censorship after that point then return charges for Steemit Inc for liability of the content published on chain?
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I have no idea, but it seems like a pretty important issue, especially with all the clones starting to pop up now.
Looks like it will come down to the finer details. When you say clone I assume you mean an exact duplicate or hardly distinguishable or am I wrong there?
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Yes, there are several that are almost exact duplicates with less than 10% of the website changed.
Is smoke.io a clone of steemit.com? NO. Smoke.io is a front end. Smoke blockchain INNOVATES off what steem is. Because they removed delegations (the toxic bidbot culture) and SBD (market manipulated garbage). Just my 0.02.
SBD is good because it allows to internally short STEEM.
Delegations are also good, because they lower the level of trust needed in order to temporarily transfer SP.
The main 2 evils of STEEM are:
There are more evils in STEEM, but delegations and SBD are not among them.
Still, good to know about smoke.io.
May be worth a try.
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Delegations enable bidbots to infect new users claiming ROI % that are not true. SBD, was manipulated to 14usd, that isn't safe or healthy for anyone.
Why was it not "safe or healthy"? Just because it didn't stay pegged to a dollar like it was intended doesn't mean it wasn't safe or healthy. It was simply what happens when a coin enters the free market and its price is dictated by supply and demand. In fact, elevated SBD prices could be argued to be one of the best things to happen to steemit.com in terms of user growth.
If there was no STEEM premine, there would not have been so much STEEM to delegate to bidbots, at least not to the biggest ones.
When SBD peaked, it was very healthy for those whom sold it near its peak.
I never delegated any of my SP to any cause and never paid for a delegation.
Still, delegations are a good concept and a good feature to have.
Agreed. The steem premine is one of the biggest obstacles to making steemit.com work like it was designed to, though there are other issues as well. Account inequality at launch was a big hurdle that has been very difficult to overcome.
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So it would be the differences that make it none intellectual property theft?
I know Smoke has many differences but was it built off the supposed protected property or was it completely designed from the ground up? Does that matter? I’m still confused about the exact details of what would be protected by Steemit Inc if everything has been publicly released?
I assumed that we were talking about weku as I have not looked into it, figured it was a direct duplicate or something.
Smoke to me feels like it’s own thing with a entire culture around it getting back to what I imagine Steemit to have started off with, till the investors started figuring ways of maximizing profits and pushing for development changes to make them possible. It has its own branding and differences on nearly every piece of the front end, though small they are still not a duplicate by any means IMO.
Always appreciate your 0.02 💪
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Yes , and the entire whitepaper is different, the front end smoke.io has a different use , it's not a test bed. They have advertising planned as well, so you tell me, is this the same IP, i don't see it as the same.
@jrcornel Steemit.com is centralized and owned by Steem Inc, but block chain , cryptocurrency technology is totally decentralized network.
Correct. We are talking about the steemit.com website.
In order to really infringed on a copyright, I think they would need to prove damages and since Steemit Inc does not receive any benefits from the users posting on their frontend nor does it have advertising I don’t think they suffer. Actually, I think they have tried to state in the past that their focus is on the Steem blockchain code and that other should develop alternatives to engage with the blockchain accordingly. Their largest incentive is to increase adoption given the stake they hold on the protocol.
Though if someone forks the steem blockchain and clones steemit.com on their new blockchain, then promotes/advertises it properly (like steemit.com has never done), there is the possibility of this new player eating steemit's lunch in a very real way.
That's called innovation, not IP infringement. For example. Bitcoin is crap so steemit had a huge pump up, Steemit stole ideas directly from open source bitcoin code. This is the reality we live in.
I get that, if code is open source then others are free to build whatever they want with it. My questions are more geared specifically towards the website steemit.com. Are there no rights to a website someone builds on a blockchain?
No, there is no rights to tell people they can't build on a blockchain. The system is trustless. Did you notice smoke.io doesn't list account USD values? This is for a reason. The code isn't even the same, steemit inc can learn from this code. Innovate or die.
Like a doppelganger? If you see yours then you die in a short amount of time afterwards? Also one is evil and the other good.
!popcorn
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Yep, but what if there are more than one of them?
Someone's about to form a gang then.
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The way open source code works, is if you made your code open, then you accept forks of this code as long as changes are given back under licence terms. Now, majority of people do not follow or have any way to enforce licensing. Add in decentralization, witness structure, much more rigid system as far as decentralization as bitcoin. And you end up with there is not a thing bitcoin, steemit or any other company can do or govt for that matter about this issue. Similar to how thepiratebay still operates. Actually forks are good for steemit inc because the majority of front end and other innovations are cross compatible unlike litecoin and the other coins without the same address structure.
I agree that front-ends are good if they are also running on the steem blockchain, but I fail to see how forking the steem blockchain and then copying steemit.com almost to the "T" and running it on their new forked blockchain would be good for steemit or steem in any way?!
Steem needs to adapt and innovate. The model innovate or die is a common theme i've seen in a decade of technology investment. Smoke does something that works, Steem can fork to this new code. it works in benefit of steem. a sister coin. Smoke.
Now the "look and feel" is indeed interesting. Since the source code for Steemit front end is not open source, anyone who would like to make a new front end base on the Steem codebase would have to design their own interface. If they have to create something new like that, why copy the "look and feel" from Steemit.com and not come out something unique? Sounds like a waste of effort to me.
Nobody would support them right?
They are breaking ip law, but it doesn't matter. Stinc has much better things to do than start a legal battle with some Podunk site.
Steemit.com will eventually be phased out for one of the other frontends anyway. Why waste time working on a frontend when you can focus on the backend to attract hundreds of developers to the platform who will basically work for "free". SMTs will be amazing value creators.
This is a very good point. If they ever intended steemit.com to be big and eventually challenge other major social media sites it would make sense to protect what is theirs, though like you suggested, perhaps the plan is to let steemit.com die on the vine... shame.
Things are still a bit ‘Wild West’ in the world of crypto right now. Until, cryptocurrencies become trusted and recognised mainstream brands with a true sense of legitimacy, they will struggle to enforce these claims, I fear.
I think it would be a good step to open-source Steemit.com as well. Protecting the logo or name is kinda ok, but the website should be open-source too.
Thanks for linking to my post.
As to your question, I am pretty sure they are using what is legally available through open source coding.
Thanks for the links. Most of this looks like it pertains to the steem blockchain though...