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ESL
8 years ago in #steemit by invisiblegorilla (57)
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Hello invisiblegorilla, we would like to inform you that you have been chosen as a featured author by the @robinhoodwhale initiave. We are currently in alpha testing, if you would like more info join robinhood chat on steemit.chat or pm @repholder.
Great Write-Up - Keep on Steeming!
Deleted my own stupid comment. Do as you please. We might just have different opinions on what defines a "Robin Hood".
Sounds good. I have contacted @repholder to find out more.
Hello! I totally get your point, but I would ask you to consider mine.
I speak 4 languages rather well. German is native, italian is second, then comes english and then french. I recently wrote my first blogpost in italian ever (I am 40) and it felt so liberating. I did it, because there is hardly any italian content, and I had spent 2 months building up the german speaking channel:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@fabio/speaking-of-ants-the-germants-are-endangered-here
I totally agree with this:
"I want the quality of writing on Steemit to improve and I simply don’t see that happening if whales continue to reward poor quality content. Not only does it lower the bar but it signals to good writers that their talents are unappreciated. "
But the cause is that Steemit is currenlty built to reward english only. I have encountered numerous people that keep telling me they were going to write in their native language as soon as there was any perspective for reward.
Change that, and the bad english speakers will switch back to their native language (I have no problem writing only in German).
@fabio
totally agree. At the moment, people are only writing in English because if they write in Korean or other minor langauges, they wont a cent..
But I agree with the articles content, so I will improve my posts to not offend anybody.
Being "offended" by poor language skills by an otherwise well intentioned writer is just snobbish.
It is an undercover discrimination. All the post it´s an elegant way to say I don´t want non native speakers here. Or in a really anglo phrase "latin monkeys out of here". That is what I read inter lines here. That is the reason of my downvote to this post. The cry baby don´t want that no native english speakers earn money here. The reason of a social network is expand, but he want to reduce the network. If I write a bad or broken english I need help. We don´t need to be excluded of the network. If we write a bad english, well my Sir, you can correct us. That is my opinion.
Please show me where I said non-native English speakers should be 'excluded' from Steemit.
That is the spirit of your post. Exclude as of Steemit or exclude us of the possibility of post in english cause you don´t like the way and manners of our "broken english". The truth is that you don´t like non native english speakers earn money with Steemit. You don´t like have non native speakers as competitors. The sun shine for all here. That is your problem.
I totally agree with you fabio, I´d love to write only in spanish, but as you said there are no rewards yet
Build it and they will come. Create inspiring, thought-provoking, and entertaining content. Then share it with communities of the same language. and invite people within those communities to participate. You have to start somewhere. Isn't it exciting to be here, at the beginning, where you have the biggest opportunity to be involved in the rapid growth of a community?
Make your content so damn good that people of the same language rush to see it before any other content on the web.
Oh, I am doing just that, as you would be able to see for yourself if you were'nt monolingually challenged. I also already explained that it is what I am doing and my english might not be up to your standards, but it is said to be intelligible. I honestly doubt you would taste your own medicine on a chineses Steemit. I also am angry at the insulting hubris you keep displaying towards non english speakers here. You have a very unpleasant "let them eat cake" attitude.
Hello,
I upvoted your post. Still all non-native English speakers do not have an alternative than to post in English, as the local languages are too weak on Steemit now. I am building up a network of Local Ambassadors (so far German, Russian, Spanish, Dutch, French, Chinese etc.) so we can promote the local languages, but it will take some time.
For the near future, I will require authors to present me with proof-read versions of their post, as I am not a native English speaker.
My native language is Spanish . I understand that you want to read more qualified post but I think a form of discrimination.
My content in English are not the best . For that you have their voting power . Use it at your convenience .
I think if whales don't support content people who are non-English speaking the steemit not grow everything she could.
If we want steemit be entirely decentralized it can not be centralized in one language. And much less in the natives of that language.
I apologize for my comment on your post . If you see too many grammatical errors can use the flag.
Your comment is, indeed, full of grammatical errors. As I suggested in the article, please proof read or get an editor to help you. Your poor English has not only negatively affected your ability to communicate your viewpoint but it has also led you to misunderstand what I have written. I never suggested Steemit should be an exclusively English platform.
If you want to appeal to English readers, write in English. Broken English is not English. It requires a level of empathy to realize how insulting it is to be presented with something written so poorly. Personally, I understand that my Mandarin is not good enough to publish posts in Mandarin. It would be ridiculous and insulting of me to try to appeal to a Chinese audience with my limited Mandarin writing skills - unless I stated explicitly that I was a non-native writer and that readers should expect to see plenty of errors in my work. This relates to my suggestion to develop a tag specifically for non-native writers.
Voy a tomarme la libertad de responder a su comentario en español a riesgo de que no me entienda ya que no me gustaría en absoluto herir su sensibilidad con respecto a mi falta de conocimientos de la gramática inglesa. No veo porqué si yo puedo molestarme en tratar de entenderle en su idioma usted no puede hacer lo mismo para entenderme a mí en el mío.
En primer lugar he de decirle que estoy absolutamente convencida de que he entendido todo el contenido de su artículo y todo lo que usted quería transmitir. El problema es que usted no entiende hasta qué punto sus opiniones resultan insultantes y discriminatorias.
¿De verdad le parecen más ofensivas las faltas gramaticales que los contenidos exclusivos o discriminatorios? ¿Dónde colocamos exactamente la línea de la censura? Desde que cree mi cuenta he tenido que leer opiniones muy diversas que en ocasiones me resultan muy poco aceptables. He obviado ese contenido y no me he sentido con el derecho de juzgar a otras personas. Creo que se puede mantener una buena convivencia sin discriminar a nadie (ni siquiera por su idioma o por la falta de conocimiento en el campo que sea).
Muchas personas que hablan y escriben en inglés (no todas, afortunadamente) creen que su idioma es el mismo ombligo del mundo.
Dígame, si una ballena vota un post con faltas gramaticales en inglés y eso le da a su autor el poder de reforzar la comunidad en su propio idioma, ¿en qué se ve usted perjudicado? Yo le sugiero no entrar en contenidos que no le resulten de su agrado. Puede usted incluso votar en negativo lo que no le guste.
Lo que realmente me molesta es que haga una alegoría de las personas que están luchando por hacerse un lugar en una red que presume de descentralizada pero que se centraliza en un idioma. Ente otras cosas resaltando sus errores y ridiculizándolas (enlace incluido). ¿El concepto de anotar los errores de otros como un profesor en una pizarra lo he captado bien? Por si no era eso lo que pretendía. ¿Es posible que usted estuviese ayudando a la comunidad de habla no inglesa y yo, con mi falta de comprensión, le haya juzgado mal?
De verdad deseo y espero que las ballenas hagan caso omiso de su mensaje.
Mientras tanto yo, y presupongo que muchos otros autores no nativos, seguiremos escribiendo como nos dé la gana sin pedirle permiso a usted. Por muy insultante que pueda resultarle. Más insultante me resulta a mí, le aseguro, que se ría públicamente de personas que comparten sus contenidos con la mejor intención.
Marta, es discriminación lisa y llana pero disfrazada con muchos argumentos. No quiere latinos aquí el señor y por eso se gano mi down vote.
I understand enough spanish to totally agree.
Thank you very much for your support, fabio
Este artículo, no me gusta nada. Espero que cambies tu postura.
I feel deep anger in your writting. You should stop complaining and help those, like me, whose posts can be corrected improving the overall plattform quality - also formally.
You should feel blessed by non-native english steemians putting effords to let you even basically understand their thoughts.
Just one question. How many languages do you speak?
What I absolutely don't understand is that you feel insulted by someone trying to express his/her thoughts in English.
Whilst one can discuss whether content needs to be upvoted by a whale if it is written incorrectly in terms of spelling and grammar, I do find it pretty arrogant to feel insulted by people only learning the language.
If someone moves to an English speaking country and is only learning the language, would this be insulting, too?
As a translator, I know about the very poor quality of Google's translator. If someone simply runs his/her text through GT, okay, that's a point.
But if you only feel insulted by someone trying to write content in English, due to simply not havig the faintest chance of being seen, that's simply a pity.
I do write German as well as bilingual posts - I bet my English is not perfect, even after having been learning it for more than ten years. I do see writing in English as a good chance to practise my skills. Instead of feeling insulted, you could try to make people aware if they make mistakes.
It makes me sad to see that steemit is becoming just another platform where people are ranting about others. In my opinion steemit should be a place where nobody should be descriminated because of his/language or even opinions.
We should help each other building a friendly place, where everybody is welcome, instead. If you don't agree to the grammar or content of a post, feel free to leave a comment but keep in mind, that your comment might destroy the authors efforts of being an active member of the community.
Sometimes it's just better to skip the content you don't like. Also feel free to promote the content you like. Build networks. Become a dolphin or whale. Raise your impact.
But please stay positive and please don't destroy the friendly and liberal spirit in here. Thank you!
Maybe someone can point out the mistakes in the comment and the author who is trying to improve their English corrects it, then maybe they get ptsthen? Just a thought to add.
That is the reason while I am offering the proofreading/translation service for the Russian posters that wish to continue posting for broader English speaking audiences. Another reason is that is is actually painful to read articles with the language like that. :-D
Upvoted. Great post.
Spelling and grammatical errors are often a sign of something more damaging than broken English, i.e. spun or automatically translated articles.
Because they won't easily come up as duplicate content in Google, these can be harder to pick up by the likes of @cheetah or even @steemcleaners so it's important the community is extra vigilant.
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks, @condra.
I don't see a problem with all the grammatical errors though your wall of text was a bit much ;)
I added bullet points. I hope that makes things clearer.
I would like to see more users form groups and write in their native language as well as English. I think that some feel that they are forced to post in English or go unnoticed.
I'm a whole lot more tolerant when I read a google translated post or a post that is written in both a contributor's native language and English. Though doing both can make a post exceptionally long.
Hey patrice,
I started organizing exactly these groups. I never realized that it would offend you English natives if there were grammar mistakes in posts.
I wouldn't say it offends me. It makes reading difficult at times. Sometimes the google translator does a better job than someone learning to write in English.
This isn't a criticism of their skill, but an observation on readability. It is extremely difficult to learn new languages for some. I'm hoping that we will see more foreign language groups here and that they become successful. #cn seems to be doing well sometimes posting both in Chinese and English on the same post.
Maybe there is a need within these groups for someone to help edit/improve users English posts? I don't know that I could help, not speaking a foreign language myself. Communication might be difficult, but maybe not. Some learn by example. Just food for thought.
Nice posting, I glad you make this posting, really my first language is not English, so many article which use bad grammar and words make me confuse when I read it :)
Thanks for the feedback, @happyphoenix.
An author's use of poor grammar is very frustrating. Another bad habit on my list of gripes is poor pronunciation. Especially when someone is talking about pronunciation and they say : proNOUNciation..........
Are you for real? I really need to calm down not to write here what I want to write
Agreed, and it's funny how the same conversation is echoing in different venues the past couple of days. Carol Tice (The Freelance Writer's Den) just posted a similar "hard truth for ESL writers" message. Essentially, why not write in your own language? Or use the ESL tag? I can't even imagine how hard it would be trying to 'compete' in a non-native language. To have and use an ESL tag would prepare readers to be more gracious, too.
No whales upvote spanish content. That´s a reason right there..
Thanks for the feedback, steemitpatina. I wasn't aware of that. Do you have a link?
Broken English or Engrish as I call it shouldn't be promoted.
You have my downvote good men.
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