in defense of vote buying.

in #steemit7 years ago



There are a couple of strategies being employed on Steemit that would be considered foul play. Whether it's buying votes for garbage content, or buying delegation and then upvoting your own content (most of the time it is garbage as well).

We already had a proposal from blocktrades about increasing profitability (rather just making curating profitable at all) for curators by reducing the author rewards from the currenty "75/15" (in reality more like 85/15) to an equal 50/50. 50% to Authors, 50% to Curators.

I think it is a drastic change but still a good one and here's the reason why.

  • Steemit is like a game. It has economic incentives which must reach an equilibrium to make gamification an enjoyable experience such that it encourages more and more user participation.
  • Like every game, there is a certain balance that must be reached in order not to sway too much advantage in any particular actor's favour. If you've played games like Starcraft, then you know that the balance between the 3 races have taken Blizzard nearly a decade to perfect and I believe Steemit will require the same kind of time compounded by the fact that new "gameplay" elements are to be added.
  • Drastic changes set the boundaries or limits. In order to understand the effects of something, we often have to examine what happens at the extremes. Like with the no whale voting experiment which lead to linear rewards, extreme measures must be taken to see the dynamics which emerge as a result. If the results then swing too much in the other direction, then atleast we have a scale (with limits) which we can move between.

That's all well and good for blockchain protocol changes to reduce incentives for self voting, but what about vote buying?

I've been thinking a lot about this element of Steemit and I'm still not sure that it is necessarily a completely negative aspect of the system. And these are the reasons.

  • Facebook, Instagram etc. are centralised corporations which derive value from the attention they command of all the users on the platform. You can advertise, boost, or make sponsored posts on these platforms by paying a certain mount of money to purchase a slice of the attention. Facebook/Instagram stand to gain from this transaction, but not if the sponsored post or boosted content is inherently damaging to their brand. This is why you can't just purchase sponsored or boosted posts on absolutely anything. There is still moderation. This is to protect this service from becoming a detriment to their product overall. So here's the main point.

What if you wanted to boost your content or promote it on Steemit?

Just imagine if the visibility of posts was not attached to a monetary value. Suddenly, spending money to boost the visibility of your posts is absolutely fine right?

People who wish to boost their content without vote buying only have two options.

  1. Spend millions of dollars buying SP, locking it up for 4 months, then upvoting themselves whilst taking slack from the community for upvoting themselves and "abusing the reward pool"

  2. Spend a lot of time building a following and organically reaching more visibility by contenting with the attention pool of the site as a whole.

These two options are unrealistic and make the entry barrier for people wishing to gain more visibility (and yes, as the platform has more and more users, attention and visibility could actually eclipse the goal of making more money on a post) almost completely out of reach. This is not good especially given that they are more than likely willing to spend money to promote themselves else where and by giving them no opportunity to do so on Steemit, they don't want to play the game.

The ecosystem for vote buying

So here is where vote buying could actually work. But there are some big assumptions. Let me try to explain.
Buying votes is one way that a small time, non-whale, non-existing influencer can try to bid their way into having some attention. It is an exemplary use case of the attention economy actually, to input money to gain attention.

The problem is, if the content is below par, and the user can essentially break even (or even profit a tiny bit), they will continue to utilise the way with least opportunity cost to promote their articles. In-fact, it can be argued that they have no interest in promoting their articles at all and are just trying to skim a bit of profit off the top.

The reason they can do this is that the vote buying process is mostly automated and they are guaranteed a vote regardless. But remember, facebook is a centralised entity which will screen and moderate the boosted and sponsored posts to check that it is not damaging to their service and brand. Well, Steemit actually has that ability too, except the power is not in a single entity, all SP holders are stake holders of the platform, and thus theoretically should act in the best interest of the platform.

This means, if each post is screened for suitability, and not just "horseshit one line comments", then there is decentralised governance of the attention economy right here on steemit. Those with power, enable those with the intent to get visibility and a slice of the attention pool on the platform to achieve that through decentralised vote buying.

The supplier of the vote, carries their proportional responsibility to upvote content that does not damage the brand of Steemit because the larger their stake, the more they stand to lose as the price depreciates from continued support of sub-par content.

TLDR;


  • Other social media websites offer their version of vote buying. Facebook has boosts, instagram has sponsored posts.
  • The posts are moderated by the websites themselves before being accepted for promotion. This protects their brand and service.
  • Steemit currently does not give people with small budgets to promote themselves many options to gain a slice of the attention and visibility.
  • As more attention is added to the attention pool (more users on the platform), more people will want to bid for a slice of that attention. Vote buying supplies this demand. Instead of Steemit Inc taking money for upvoting content, any SP stake holder can take money and thus it is a decentralised way of providing promoted posts. Whales and by definition more incentivised to act responsibility as their net value of their stake increases or decreases the most with their actions.
  • Vote buying is not inherently bad, infact, it is possibly a very lucrative model in the future for all SP stakeholders. It just requires moderation.
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well said bro.. @honeybee i love your content, very informative about vote buying..it will affect the system environment on this community, thanks for sharing your personal thoughts on this..more power to you @honeybee

Nice post keep it up

Hey pretty new here and was wondering if you could elaborate on why people buy votes? By doing this their post would be seen by more people ( I assume) but wouldn't any money spent on buying votes be similar to any profit made on said post, making it seem rather pointless to me.

Currenty, people buy votes because they see it as a profit venture which they can skim a couple of bucks off the top whilst perpetuating this activity. The hopes are that the post sees more visibility from the boost, and some organic voting comes in.

I'm trying to argue that the attention economy is actually defined by people who spend money to get attention.

Thanks for the info mate!

We can grow community using this like a ad! "Make money on steem" not everyone is like a journalist. You got 100 $ from post so easy for you to write about this. But not everyone have. Dont be selfish. People who created those Bots invest huge money in so they growing steem. Blockchain is a technology for people who dont like controls from banks/ governments so why you would like change that?? Couse you afraid that you account dont be that strong ?? Or you jelous that someone is buying votes from bots ( investing money ) you all taking that steem will be worst but You dont need to use them. Anyway you making already money but dont be selfish. I can not see you other point. What about groups of steem users that giving like only each other couse they have a lot SP?? Thats ok for You? You have some person that you are voting couse you cauting vote back ! So it's not fair to make post like this in my opinion. Be free with steem and other crypto and do whatever you like thats why we have blockchain!! Dont like dont use it - everything

You are sound very misconstrued and I cannot formulate an answer to your illogical comments.

This is meant to be a starting point for further discussion. I am presenting a case where vote buying is a healthy eco-system which can bring more money into the system, and even help the discovery of good content.

(One example would be if people had so much confidence in their content that they were willing to bid a lot of money for the attention)

He thinks that you support for 50/50 @honeybee, and he simply opposed it and see it as greed in favors of lot sp! Or the whales

However, I dont see this proposal as effective to change curation rewards, still it favors to a friends and traits as partners in crime and profit together,

But, lets see if the result were more people come to steemit or more steemian simply stop steeming specially minnows!

It is perfectly fine from all points of view IMHO.. Great content, upvoted.

The unleashed power of the atom has changed everything save our modes of thinking and we thus drift toward unparalleled catastrophe.

- Albert Einstein

Thank you for your post. I am fairly new still and I think people need to be a little more patient. I feel a little bit better reading your post now as I have been some what apprehensive and not as active as I was in the first few months of posting on this platform. I have more bad posts I suppose than good, but to get noticed does seem to take forever. However I have not been posting for even a year yet, and I still see huge potential. I believe I am a lifer and true advocate to the platform and would recommend it to anyone.

We do need to solve the promotion aspect of it. If facebook are a central entity which can control the visibility of posts which people are willing to spend money promoting, then steemit can do the same with it's decentralised network of stakeholders.

Exactly. I belief its not bad if contents are promoted to achieve more results via visibility.

As someone new iv found the whole bot ecosystem to be rather daunting. It adds another level of those unspoken rules that I won't get fully until iv interacted with it enough. I guess its its own evolving thing so it might be hard to keep track of...

I saw @blocktrades post against buying upvotes. I got his points as well but your points totally displaces his. I just wish I could upvote this post more than once. Well articulated!

As I mentioned at the beginning if this post, I don't disagree with his proposal. In fact, his proposal deals mostly with the renting delegation and self voting issue and not So much vote buying. I'm trying to stir some discussion towards making a viable vote buying system which doesn't encourage posting crap.

Ok, and that will be the best as it will make steemit a home of great contents!

Yes that is the desired goal we all should strive towards.

I stopped on using any type of vote buying for almost a month now and I find it more enjoyable than to look like pathetic on buying votes. only those who sell their vote (mostly bots) really earn a huge amount than those who buy votes.

It's not about making money. It's about finding a solution to offering promoted posts as a service without destroying the integrity of the platform. The attention economy needs more discussion to get the parameters right eventually.

If you add a 50/50 split you are taking away 25% of a chance to a minnow to grow on the site, and giving whales 25 % of extra earnings, on the other hand it may encourage them (whales) to vote more for quality content. Just my opinion.

It's a double edged sword. Authors don't make anything if curators don't curate. Block trades argued that with better duration inventive, organic good curating will make renting delegated power not just about self voting "horseshit" posts.

Yeah! Its all about investment and upvoting own post right,
I will lease sp and profit from it! So its all about money,

What do you think that from 50/50 first rewards system but we upgrade to 75/25 and then lets go back to level 1 again for 50/50 would work better?

I think I agree to this. If there ate no great contents... There is no steem. So I think the authors deserve more. 75/25 is best!

People have been spoilt beyond belief, they also feel an unjustified sense of entitlement. Adjusting the rewards to 50/50 split simply means more curators with significant power have more incentive to vote. This is probably a net positive for authors who actually post good material, as they will be the become the benefactors of more votes from better curators.

They could use Steemfollower, manually curate and get profits from their votes while curating.

Wow I think I buy your point . Nice one!

nice post and good work

Very informative point

What happen before as this 50/50 was the original rewards system, why they change it?

Finally I see a sincere post about buying upvotes, not an upstart that is defending the good quality without doing it. Of course if we want to be noticed we need to boost our posts. If this is the only way to do it so why not. Especially it's our money and we can do with it what we want. We are free to spend our steem dollar, we can buy resteem or upvote or even find someone to write the post for us and pay him, or we can pay for translating our posts, or for someone to make for us good video or a picuture. What the problem, and as you said in other social media also people pay to advertise themselfs, why we on steemit shoulds make that, it's internet marketing that a lot of people don't understand.

I do not see the project sustainable. The only source of income can not be the speculative purchase of tokens.
Other companies with similar operations have other sources of income such as advertising.

Sigh. The reward pool is fixed. How much a token is valued is determined by what people are willing to pay for said tokens, this price directly affects the dollar amount distributed daily and thus the value projected onto the articles. The market is young but has self corrective mechanisms built in to eventually reach reasonable pricing equilibrium. Bitcoin has an even larger emission schedule by dollar value each day and hardly has the same number of transactions per day as steem. Steem is much more geared towards being a currency than Bitcoin and yet I don't see you complaining about the "income of bitcoin being reliant on the speculative purchase of tokens".

Finally, steemit is a decentralised autonomous corporation, it's development is in the hands of its stakeholders. It is not the sole responsibility of steemit Inc to make progress on its own. This is the whole point of having an open source DAC.

I agree that it's not all about speculation. Besides just trying to earn curattion and author rewards, there are people posting who want to promote their own sites or businesses. In that sense, buying upvotes probably isn't much different than paying for visibility/ advertising anywhere.

I'm new, but I'm sure that newbies (newts like me?) who think quality content is enough are like webmasters who think that quality is all it takes to rank first in Google for competitive terms.

Here's the problem: Paying for upvotes ins't transparent. Playing for ads or promotion is. I don't have an issue with people paying for visibility, but I do have an issue with a lack of transparency.

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Also visit my blog too, Thanks!@honeybee please I don't really understand how this works ,how you put me through, possibly via a direct message?

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