New people: Why is my post payout changing? Why is it cut in half?

in #steemit8 years ago (edited)


This is a post that I am writing to address a couple of questions I see new people asking and making posts or comments about. Apparently, whatever introductory information they saw when they created their account did not explain a couple of things well enough for someone that was new, or perhaps they didn't see them, read them, etc.

Payout

Your payout is based upon a reward pool. Let's call that P for POOL. This reward pool is FIXED in size every day.

When you up vote something it takes your steem power and leverages it towards how much of the reward pool to allocate. Let's call that sp.

Well let's assume you are up voting everything 100%. You cast your vote and the current voting curve appears to actually be 4n, when many of us were hoping for just n. That means your vote is worth 4 times your steem power.

So you vote and now 4sp is allocated to take from that pool. If NO ONE else voted for that day you would get the entire pool.

Yet it isn't just you that votes. A lot of people vote and the more steem power you have the more you can influence where things go.

So one thing that can impact your POTENTIAL rewards is where votes are going. If enough votes go to other places that shifts some of where the reward pool is allocated and your rewards go down, along with pretty much everyone else.

This in itself is pretty fair. Why it was thought we needed 4 times our steem power instead of just a flat steem power I still don't get other than still having some force multiplier for when people have more power. So it is now a linear curve, but it's not 1:1 linear as people might think. 1 steem power is worth 4, 2 steem power is worth 8, 3 is worth 12, etc. 100 steem power is worth 400 steem power in terms of votes.

Now if they did change to linear you'd see how much you can reward people drop to 25% what it is right now. So if you could give someone $1 for a maximum vote right now on straight n instead of 4n that would change to $0.25. Yet it would be directly the same as a person steem power.

Value of Steem

Yet that is only half of the issue. The thing that can dramatically change the potential payout of your post is the value of the steem currency on the market. As steem decreases in value then obviously the potential payout which is based upon the value of steem would have to declinge. If steem increases in value then the opposite is true and your payout will increase.

This is based upon a 30 day average for the value of steem.

Now there is a pretty easy way to watch steem value change. You can pull up your wallet and it will tell you the value of your account based upon Steem Dollars(aka SBD), steem, and your steem power. If that value is also decreasing then that tends to mean the value of steem is decreasing.

This happens frequently. It is like a roller coaster. There are disadvantages and advantages to this.

If steem drops to low values that is a good time to buy more if you believe in steem. You also tend to be rewarded bigger chunks of it from your posts.

Then when it swings up again you get a big grin on your face when you see how much your account is worth.

Back in probably as recently as March steem was as low as $0.10/steem. The highest I'd seen it prior to that was around $4.00/steem in July 2016. Then a couple of months after that it went to actually over $2.00/steem. All I know is that my account went from about $1000 in value for many months of posting to suddenly being worth $40,000. Now for the past few weeks it has been decreasing. The rate it has been decreasing has been far slower than it rose. My account is under $30,000 now.

So yes this change in the value of steem WILL impact your payout.

I only get half of my payout!

So now let's talk about the fact you only get half of your payment as something you can easily move. If you read the white paper on the reasoning behind this you'll see that is largely WHY this project works. People could say $2.00/steem and go "WOW!" and sell it all and crash the entire currency. The steem power mechanism and requiring slower withdrawal of steem power protects the currency from this. If you want to do this just tell your account to power down.

Perhaps look with a different perspective?

Finally, you really need to do your best to QUIT focusing on the quantity. You can go back to facebook, reddit, and other social media platforms and not get paid anything. Look for the positive and the silver lining to keep yourself and the community up beat and optimistic. If you focus on the negative that is going to impact your mood, the enjoyment, and the mood you give to others in the community.

So when your post values are changing due to factors that are beyond your control (unless you are wealthy and want to buy a ton of steem and thus drive it's value up) don't focus on them. Worry about the things that you can do something about.

EDIT: I realize this post is a bit rough. I'm not in the zone today. I can feel it. I kept seeing questions and reactions so I felt the need to write something. I don't feel like my writing here is up to my normal level, but I'm just not feeling it today. So my apologies. I thought I'd try to help anyway.

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It's kind of like hash power. Only when you're mining the hash power remains constant depending on your machine.

Yeah we don't need that here. We also can't be beat out by some guy with a more powerful rig. We don't have to pay for more electricity.

We mine steem simply by using the platform. Pretty awesome. :)

Excellent content! This is very helpful. Thank you for sharing this. This helped me a lot to understand things about steemit. This is a perfect guide for newbie like me. Followed and upvoted! looking forward to see your future great posts 🙂 Very well explained!

I think it is actually kind of poorly written. I'm not in a writing mode today. It is a struggle. That is unusual for me. If it helped you though I am glad.

No its not. Checkout mine. I sucks in writing. Lol. you are very good at explaining.

I feel that on another day I could have done this better. Perhaps in the near future I will. :) Thanks again.

I've done 63 posts that have paid less that one dollar, so all is amazing to me since hardfork 19!

I probably did that many posts that paid $0. :) Time and effort. some of them do great, some not so much. Posts I thought wouldn't do well would often do well, and ones I worked hard on and loved might make $0.

So I get it.

Great post for people who are new to the platform and a mindset that I try to keep while being on here.

I've been here for a while and still don't understand the different between STEEM SBD and SP. Oh well, I keep posting and collecting these imaginary internet dollars because its fun

Steem is the true currency of the blockchain. It Is the crypto currency and it is what drives all other aspects of this platform.

Steem Dollars also known as SBD or Steem Backed Dollars are an additional currency designed to be pegged to the US Dollar. The idea was that if people were paid in half of these they could be relatively sure it was worth $1 per SBD. For the past couple of months the peg was broken and it actually went to $2 or more per SBD at times. So SBD at some points if you exchanged was actually worth double what the idea for it was.

So SBD could be viewed as a COMFORT currency. It is currently pegged to the US Dollar. It could be changed to be pegged to something like silver, gold, or something else in the future.

SBD is useful for promoting posts (which actually destroys the currency, which increases value of overall supply). It can be converted to STEEM by several different means. It can be converted to Bitcoin or other crypto currencies via an exchange.

A lot of people buy more steem and then power up their steem power faster as well. I've done this before in the past.

At the moment I leave my steem power alone and don't plan on ever tapping into it unless it is an emergency. I tend to exchange most of my steem dollars for bitcoin and power up things like a bitpay.com/card visa card which I then buy and pay for anything I want.

It is confusing... but really STEEM drives this project. STEEM POWER is an invested version of that which cannot be withdrawn fast. You get 1/15th per week if you go into power down.

STEEM DOLLARS are just a for ease of understanding pegged to a common fiat currency.

In reality SBD should not be something you'd want to play on the market much. It shouldn't vary much from the US Dollar in value if it works correctly.

If you are a speculator or investor then that is where STEEM comes in.

Do you have any idea how that peg is maintained? For regular currency, the currency is steadily bought or sold to maintain the peg.

It is pretty complex. The Witnesses adjust their nodes to setup some percentages and some such which I am no expert on and their activities can increase the price. If the price of Steem Dollars drops too low it will switch to rewarding you with steem and steem power and no steem dollars until it is back on peg. This has happened before. All of this works pretty well... where they have encountered difficulties is when the steem dollar goes above peg. That is apparently not as easy to counter act.

They also added the promote feature back when it was low. When you promote you actually send Steem dollars to NULL which is like burning them. They are no longer in the supply. So the use of promote can help increase the value of steem dollars by burning some of the supply.

As to the rest... still learning. :)

I find the whole thing fascinating from a systems perspective. Appreciate the time you always take to answer my questions. Any idea if there is some central repository where I could find these answers myself? I read the initial steem white paper, but that seems to be somewhat obsolete now and doesn't really go into detail about the mechanics of the whole thing.

Really steemit here and digging into it with Google searches or other searches is the closest you'll find to that. You could also perhaps find some answers from people on the SteemSpeak discord server as some people from Steemit Inc. do hang out there as well as other developers.

It's a lot to keep up with. If I were developing for it I'd be paying more attention. My knowledge just comes from being very involved here for about a year. I do jump into SteemSpeak sometimes but, for me that can be very distracting and before I know it I can lose a day.

The @jerrybanfield post I just resteemed covers most of it.

good Guide

Great post. Really helps to clarify things for us newbies. This is a great platform but it can be confusing. Thanks for helping to clear the fog a little.

Nice informative post. I was wondering why my upvotes had decreased in value from the previous day.

Bookmarked that I can forward to new friends asking

¿Why just bookmarked @mammasitta? and not give to this post a resonant & booming resteem to show some true support? ¿Huh?
Yeah! I simply wonder!! :)

I am not a big fan of resteeming steemit how to do related topics. I only resteem if it fits on my blog and topics I write about : music, inspirational, about Bali and Vienna to be visible and therefore helpful for my airbnb guests in various areas.
So, if we could have 2 sections ( our own blog split from resteems) I would resteem more articles

Fair enough answer, I reckon. :)
¿But what if it's just matter to create & spread more awareness at a given moment about things a little bit away from our main scope which nevertheless also affect us all equally as a whole?
¿Would you resteem a "steemit how to do related topic" regardless you currently don't have your own blog split for resteems?

I use our @welovesteemit FB group , my Twitter and many other PR tools to spread awareness and since day 1, I am supporting and helping newcomers with my votes and links I send to personal messenger services. I also have my own channel in steemit.chat. I think that everybody should find their own ways how to support and what to resteem.

Good explanation here bro

Great Guide @dwinblood, @blockrush will be following!

Congratulations! This post has been upvoted by @alex-icey because you are a great content creator as well as a person :)

Great info, I was wondering about my reward going down. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for explaining that, I'm still new to steemit but I do believe in it. I plan to invest my time and money in it (unfortunately not much though but surely every little bit counts)

Yeah I don't expect everyone to invest their money. I don't have much money either and have been poor most of my life. So I invest time and effort instead.

Omg finally thank man! And you explained it in plain words so a newbee like me can understand whats going on. Today was the end of my first week here on steemit and I've made around 100$, and when rewards kept coming in, I saw that I am not getting all of the money and that other people are sharing my rewards as curators. I am still confused about the power of my vote and why should I chose carefully who I upvote and why it matters. Also I saw that its not good to post more then 4 post a day, that somehow decreases your reputation. I am still learning about the system, but yeah I totally believe in Steemit and will power up as much as I can in the future, I just need to purchase new sneakers at the moment, and see that this money is real :D

More than 4 posts per day shouldn't impact your reputation at all. We used to have it so there was a penalty on your earnings if you did more than 4 (you could do 6 in 24 hours if you planned it right) posts per day. As far as I know they removed that restriction.

The main thing people don't want is to fell spammed. So only if you are blasting out tons of quick posts and someone decides you are more spam than quality might it impact you. Yet the system itself will not penalize you for that.

I saw that in a video from 2016, so I figured. Can you explain why I should cleverly choose my upvotes, and nobody mentions resteeming.

Some people fixate on making money from how they curate and vote. I personally think this is a bad idea and it also doesn't really work too well unless you have a lot of steem power.

I believe a lot of the trending being so often the same things over and over again is sometimes people piling on "popular" posts hoping to improve their curation rewards.

If you have a lot of power then curation rewards do matter some.

Otherwise you'll make more just finding things to write and share about that you are truly interested and knowledgeable about.

As to your vote. I can tell you what I do. As far as posts. I vote on things that I either want to see more of, they engaged my mind in some way, or I can see a lot of effort went into it.

So vote on the things you want to encourage and see more of. That seems more important to me than trying to maximize your tiny curation rewards.

As to resteeming. When it was implemented I personally made a statement that I was going to try to treat resteems like posts. I did this not because I have to, but so I wouldn't spam my followers.

So I try to shoot for 4 or less per day, though I am okay going up to 6. I've maybe done 7 once or twice in a year of being here. This is my personal system.

You will need to find what works for you. :)

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am not governed by money here, I'll resteem posts that I find useful to others, upvote what I like and post about what I find interesting, I just want to know all the mechanics to maximize my reputation. So thanks for clarifying a lot of things :)

Yeah the only thing that actually impacts reputation here is up votes and down votes... and those ONLY impact you if they come from someone with a higher reputation than you.

Awesome explanation

My mother just asked me today some of these questions because she got into steem a few days ago and was wondering why her reward for her posts change. I will refer her to this post, it is nicely explained. Thanks! :)

If steem drops to low values that is a good time to buy more if you believe in steem. You also tend to be rewarded bigger chunks of it from your posts.

Really? I thought the rewards awarded in terms of STEEM tokens would be invariant under market fluctuations. Suppose you get 30$ for a post when Steem is 2$ , that is 15 Steem power, but let's say the price of Steem has decreased to 1.5$ (average) at the time of payout , you will not be awarded 20 Steem power instead of the 15. Instead, the payout shown underneath the post will reduce to 22.5$ .

At least this is what i think happens, correct me if I'm wrong

It is based upon how much of the STEEM is in the reward pool as applied towards a rolling 30 day average of the value of steem.

T = total reward
A = Amount of steem (vests) voted towards this post
P = Total pool of votes (vests) total of ALL votes at this time
V = Value of steem as a 30 day average.

I believe this would be the equation...
T=(A/P)xV

So A and/or P changing can change T, but V does as well.

Yea, V can obviously change T. but I'm talking about whether A can change with change in V, change that is caused DIRECTLY.
.
Value of Steem would have a bearing on your earnings in $$s but not on the amount of Steem token you earn. Correct?

No A is fixed based upon your steem power.

A could actually be this on the 4n curve.

X is your steem power
P is the percentage of your vote power you chose to allocate
V is the actual percentage of your voting power you have remaining based upon how much you've been voting.

A=4x(XxPxV)

Yet it appears that instantly allocates those vests. So once you cast the vote you've SPENT that. It is out there and won't change.

The total of all votes though can change which will decrease how much power A actually has.

Yeah technically the AMOUNT of STEEM should be the same. You're getting a chunk of the pool. All that will change is how much that STEEM is actually worth.

Yep, that's what i was getting at. Thanks for clearing it up

In practice, many more people will be active and the reward pool will get depleted faster if Steem price is doing well in the markets and the opposite when Steem is low.

Hence easier to earn "bigger" chunk of Steem when it's low

So what you said will most likely be true, but not a rule

Yep, I also think I had some luck. I had some big people like @dantheman who occasionally voted on my stuff. I haven't had that for awhile and that could actually be why I had steem power growing so fast.

I'm pretty sure the type of people voting for me was a big factor.

Back then I was commonly posting things that were about 10% of whatever the top trending posts were. So if I had continued that then I should have been mostly writing $100 - $300 posts for the past couple of months. I've had a couple do that but my average % versus trending is actually quite a bit lower. This could actually explain WHY my steem power was increasing faster. Oh and I am not complaining... I'm content and satisfied... just sharing my observations.

For example, it was not any easier to earn (NOT buy) Steem tokens when it was 10 cents as it is now, given that people were as active and spending the reward pool as they are now. Which is unlikely to be the case, but supposing this is the case, theoretically you're really earning Steem with the same rate now as you were when it was 10 cents

This could be true and I just had more powerful people voting on me because I was making steem power way faster when the price was low.

This is because steem value is a 30 day average. That's why when they switched to the 30 day average and did not pre-calculater the pool that the payouts and prices really sucked for about a month. So a sudden change in price of steem will not have an instaneous dramatic impact on the payouts... it will pull that 30 day average down. If the down tick lasts for a bit then the average will trend down as well.

HF 19 had the 4 x multiplier on voting power so that people who only vote a handful of times per day could still have a good amount of influence. So it drains 2% of total power per 100% vote whereas it used to only drain 0.5%. I think it's on a 5 day cycle too so if you vote today you won't have 100% until 5 days from now even if you don't vote any more. (I could be wrong about that part..it may scale baste on a time waited calculation)

Yeah and it really made it challenging for the rest of people that are very engaged and voting frequently. :)

Don't apologise dude. It's a good response to questions that many new folk have been asking. I think you will help a lot with this.

Yeah I just know on a day it CLICKED I could likely make it better. :)

Ach, we all have them days :0)

Example... today writing for me feels like those days when you pick up a guitar to play and you just don't FEEL it. You can still play and people still hear it and you still have skill, but you are painfully aware something is missing.

Today that is writing for me.

Yes, I know that feeling, where the music is mecahnical and lacks that certain oomph

I know those days...............

You may not feel like you're in the zone, but this actually helped make things more clear for me.

Good I am glad. That's why I went ahead and wrote it anyway.

Your payout is based upon a reward pool. Let's call that P for POOL. This reward pool is FIXED in size every day.

There's no fixed daily reward pool, and that is in fact why the payouts are fluctuating. Starting with HF18, there's a reward pool balance which looks back over the last 30 days and evens out the payouts. So, a single day with a lot of activity can have a higher payout than another lull day.

Unfortunately, with significant changes in voting behavior, it has been a challenge to find an equilibrium using this system. I'm sure you'll remember how long it took for the payouts to build up over HF18. As it turns out, the reward pool balance was way overfilled right before HF19. So, for the first few days, 2x-3x the expected rewards were generated, further compounded by the fact that people went on a voting frenzy seeing their newly found influence. Things are starting to balance out now. No idea when an equilibrium will be reached, but we're getting there.

Read more here from the developer behind it - https://steemit.com/circlejerk/@aggroed/autovorotic-asphyxiation-the-mega-circle-jerk-is-choking-out-itself-through-the-rewards-pool#@vandeberg/re-aggroed-autovorotic-asphyxiation-the-mega-circle-jerk-is-choking-out-itself-through-the-rewards-pool-20170628t125153226z

For me, I figure it is the cost associated with the learning curve and pains. Since I am new to "blogging" and Steemit, I am using this opportunity to increase my abilities, in writing and creative thought. I am excited that I am finding my voice and that I am getting faster at getting the voices in my head to communicate to my fingers in a manner that works. The rewards are internal, which no one can ever take away for me. Besides, had I posted the same material in other social media sites, the monetary rewards would have been zero for me. Not only is it stimulating my mind due to the audience, I am gathering new friends who I didn't go to school with or work with. This platform invites more interaction beyond the superficial surface of a thumbs up.

That is a good attitude and approach and if you keep it and persevere you should go far.

It's important to have a destination in mind, it keeps you focused and committed. It is just as important to enjoy the journey.

Thanks for the info Dwinblood. I'm honest to say I didnt get this platform at all but just simply started posting. This cleared up quite a bit for me!

It is alien as is the case with most "new" things, but it is very cool. :)

Great info, thanks
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This post has been ranked within the top 25 most undervalued posts in the first half of Jul 03. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $41.60 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.

See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Jul 03 - Part I. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.

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