This video was inspired by @ https://steemit.com/flagging/@krnel/bad-whales-flagging-content-with-false-irrational-and-hypocritical-excuses
Mechanically elected balances naturally selected.... http://craigonesun.com
Steemit flagging to reduce rewards, it's GREAT
8 years ago in #steemit by craig-grant (75)
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I can see your perspective here... another perfectly valid voice in this debate.
It all makes me sit back and consider the possibility that there is room for change to just a strict "upvote/downvote" with the attendant sliding scale from 1-100% in either direction... and "flagging" being reserved purely for clickbait, system abuse, plagiarism, copy-and-paste, duplicate content from the web and so forth. The other day, I came across a post that was nothing but a long string of keyword spam... that should have NO PLACE here.
Sure @krnel is a great blogger (I happen to follow him) but that doesn't mean his style of content is the only thing that has validity. Your videos are "quality content" of a different format. But it's also original content. You put effort into it. It's not "here are 47 memes copied from the web into 47 posts, please upvote and follow me" posting. I despise that kind of stuff.
dude I put effort into my comments too shouldn't I get rewarded too, for spending so much time going around and throwing shit out piled up from some whale. Sure I agree with the above video too. It' a tough subject here is the "original" quoting it since it's not the first time it's been done, this idea goes way back
https://steemit.com/steem/@snowflake/guardian-of-the-steem-universe-a-different-take-on-the-role-of-whales-within-steem-ecosystem
So please guys take some time and read. Go off your trails and into other peoples activity, sure there is great quality posts around the TRAIL is doing a great job finding some shadowspub is another notable curator. Many others. And what do we get apart from the pat on the back every 20 posts or so. Well more shit since it gets perpetuated. I'm really past my bed time so take my comments with a grain of salt plus i'm fresh off the bat with berni and krnel :D but please do your curation the whales should be the most active and not in causing controversies but rather being smart and actually helping as I've said NUKES AREN'T YELPING :)
https://steemit.com/work/@j3dy/re-berniesanders-re-krnel-hey-asshole-stop-working-more-than-us-you-get-paid-too-much-20170225t004118400z
@craig-grant Sorry for bringing up the topic and getting it to spill over here too, but my comment is on point I hope
Cheers we need a bit of moderation I guess the flame is on :D
Several of us have proposed changes such as this including breaking out the flag from the downvoting. So far the developers haven't seen fit to implement it but I do support the idea.
I would agree with this. I think a flag has the wrong connotations due to the name. A separate downvote would be less aggrieving (IMO). I have changed my opinion over time. We need to attract new users and retain them or we are all basically screwed and our investments of time and bitcoins will be worthless. Some pain in the short term may help us all out in the long term.
Yes your videos are entertaining and contain good information!
I also think that a new Instagram style app built on the Steemit blockchain would be good!
@kus-knee (The Old Dog)
Are you willing to help me out. Btw with the new hard fork it might happen overnight :D i they remove the post rule and release the floodgates :| I'm guessing I will unfollow at least some people :D
I think a lot of contention comes from flagging being called "flagging" instead of "downvote" or something else. Flagging to me sounds like something that should happen to posts with bad content, spam or whatever.
I agree with "flagging" rewards to help spread the Steem pie, but it sounds bad. Either "flagging" has to change name, or we need to change our perceptions of the word.
Edit: Although I would rather not have flagging posts to reduce the rewards, and instead some sort of mathematical built in alternative for spreading the pie.
We have curie to help newbies. I think @krnel deserves his rewards, he works hard. Flagging should be for trolls.
deserving rewards should not translate to guaranteed rewards everyday
It's not just about great content from my experience here@Steemit. I see new ppl coming in making $20+ just for an introduction WITHOUT any m0ney but the free S.P. that was given and I haven't even yet made this much lol
I'm not mad anymore however as I just like being here and receiving great content. I finally found a h0me ;)
Those great bloggers also have big m0ney in there wallets which of course helps with there rewards and so, they deserve it! I 100% agree with @reddust @andytherbg, flagging is for trolls.
A lot of trolls here will now hate by flagging someone because they are jealous of what someone else is making. Take this childish app off the APP ;)
It's going to push ppl away from Steemit(some)
Hey, @tradz I think that a whale can reap the same rewards from any user not only from the same users. That's the reason why a lot of new users quit because they try, they earn few cents while others make hundreds of dollars every post they make. So, the new users don't have the nerves and the courage to continue when they see something like that.
I'm not complaining about that, I just share my opinion.
We have @curie that helps newbies, I benifited from this group when I first started posting. Now I am on my own and it's okay, I lost a lot of money coming in when I lost my newbie status and curie dropped me.
I'm not that great of an artist or writer and I work very hard on my art. I'm not hurt at all when someone's art that doesn't look as good as mine makes triple what I make. Art is so subjective and it's also about networking, luck, who you know, whose hand you kiss that wears the kings ring, which I loath doing. But I am trying to be more social I really am...🤑
Yes, I know we have @curie to help the newbies, but do we really need someone to tell us that we must the new users? This is what everyone should do in the first place, to help the new users to adapt and, they should do the same with the next generation. Like family does, but there is something else involved like money and people forget about everything when it comes to money.
@the-future, I worked as a paralegal in probate, family is the worst for being irrational and greedy over money and power. We need a free market with a large middle class to support The minnows and dolphins and be able to combat greedy whales.
@the-future I respect your opinion but I feel that by not having this flagging power it will make ppl actually invest into STEEM//Steemit with their own money . Getting 0nes rewards up f0r investing into the platform(becoming a better blogger 0r investing ones own money) can be a good thing!
IDK I'm 0ver it! I'm happy here regardless, Steem-0n!
I respect your opinion too man and first I also believed that without flagging system will be much better, but how you fight against plagiarism or people who make a post to say only bad words about a person. There has to be a system to protect people from this kind of things.
Plus, I have seen lately that people are using 1% of their power to upvote a post( to make a good thing) but they are using 100% to downvote ( to make a bad thing). I believe that should be vice-versa, but it's only my opinion. It will be amazing to see a platform where people only helps each other and they try to prosper all together at the same time, not only a few of them.
I've made that much on my 4th month and 2nd if you count when I started posting, around my 20th post because of val-a and company built up everything from the ground up even below the ground if you take into account that I was waiting on curation rewards for months I agree with you we all do I guess or most of us at least :)
Cheers @reddust and @abit for holding the conversation although a bit is somewhere sending the drops :D
@tradz it's been pushing people the whole experience needs a bit of a uplift.
I don't know about that, if you create great post every day you should be rewarded. However, I think the problems is huge sp whale votes carry too much power, which is surely abused because no one is a Saint.
The steem power vested by huge whales is why bloggers can earn rewards, without the whales there are no rewards, those whales flagging to reduce rewards is how the system is designed to work, it's not abuse
I don't entirely agree. The rewards will go out to someone regardless. If whales don't vote (or as is the case here, vote opposite each other, effectively canceling out to a degree) then the power devolves to dolphins and below, but the same rewards are still paid (though probably more spread out).
I agree that was being discussed before , I don't understand why you guys can't have a consensus and "conspire" why do we need the whale fires and the flag fields.
Either than that many don't get what you have said and whine away.
Still it's not helpful to anyone to have such massive drawbacks and downtime every week or so it's taking a massive amount of attention and creation way from something productive. Sure I like the discussion. So actually it's good it's happening after all, as long as something comes out that actually gets us past these child playground politics.
Anyways thanks for being here and not actually adding flame moreover thanks for not going into the vortexes with the other fish :D You seem like a smart guy after all I'm a bit stumped on bernie, he seems ok but I'm not sure, then he lashes out at somebody. You do too sometimes but at least you are smooth at it :D
I agree, but I do not feel this is sustainable in the long run. Right now it works, but I can see a storm brewing. The reason I don't think this will work is there are not enough middle class to balance the power of the elites.
I think because the price of steem is tanking, the elites need to make changes to stop the downtrend, and flagging to reduce rewards from users who earn huge rewards everyday while not garnering the attention needed for steemit growth, is a good move to increase the price of steem. In an economy based on attention, and user growth from that attention, a meme that draws attention from hundreds of users on and off steemit deserves more rewards than a well written blog post on a topic nobody cares about
@craig-grant I think steemit is too complicated a platform for meme lovers🤓 The currency is complicated, the way rewards are earned is complicated, guilds, bots, and whales, oh my!
I love philosophy and science, I'm biased.
Those elites are in their position because they know what they are doing, and flagging to reduce rewards from bots pilling onto bloggers who earn high rewards everyday no matter what, is flagging to steer steemit in the right direction
@craig-grant, I Enjoy talking to you by the way. I must do this more often!
From what I know about people, elites or anyone for that matter, they all have an agenda that is in their own interest. I do not trust anyone because of that, especially those who hold a concentration of power. If you can flag to reduce someone's payout than you can also vote someone to the trending page every day if you wish.
@craig-grant I think steemit is too complicated a platform for meme lovers🤓 The currency is complicated, the way rewards are earned is complicated, guilds, bots, and whales, oh my!
I love philosophy and science, I'm biased.
It's not exactly guaranteed and I guaranteed vote for him because I like his style and his commitment, can he improve probably, but I like the reasoning he brings and the ideas we share sometimes.
I agree with you! It's the same problem as it was with @steemsports and @ozchartart.
I agree about @ozchartart, but not @steemsports, because steem sports provides a high level of value for the steem blockchain, and entertainment for users
Yes, I agree with you, and I also think that steem sports provided a high level of value, but for other was a 'bad thing' to see steem sports on trending with 3 or 4 posts every day. I don't know if I was ever in trending, but to be honest I don't want that. I just want to keep is simple and have fun how long I'm here.
Yes, back in the day that was a problem with steem sports, but the current implementation of steem sports is perfect, thanks to changes being made after users (myself included) complained and started flagging steem sports to make changes and become what it is now
Yes, they have made good changes and I think they are doing great. The reason why @smooth is downvoting those users, that were too much time on trending page is very good because there are so many people who provide a good level of value and people miss them because the whales are too busy to upvote only those users.
Become a Whale and you will reap the same rewards, $imple as that! This world is ran by the Big B0ys Playb0i!!!
Agree if a professional blogger create good content and gets good money he should get reward
people today do not value hard work
The problem I see is people feel whales favor certain people and they feel slighted. This is how our world works, so weird to see this played out in a closed system like Steemit.
its not the whales who favor certain people, it's the bots of whales that upvote users who consistently create great blog posts, the bots follow the easy money, and after months of seeing that happen, it's time for a change
You are right, we also need more middle class to balance the influence of the whales.
@andytherbg, There are many people here that work very hard on their content but their quality of content isn't worth much. But quality, besides proper grammar and formatting is so subjective. If a whale wants to support their favorite artist, as this is the system we have on Steemit, they have a right, it's their power to do with as they wish.
In the old days, when the monarchy ruled the world, those who had talent and many times connections were picked to produce art and music. As an artist without a benifactor you would starve to death, back in the feudal days.
Maybe there should be a steady income for @krnel and others, like weekly pay. Keep everything as it is and only add that
Perhaps.
Thanks so much for all your support over these past 7 months on steemit ! Your awesome ! 👍😊✌🤘
The way I see it, seeing a good blogger being flagged doesn't incentivize me to be a better blogger. Makes me think if I become a better blogger and do too much posts, I will be flagged for "overrewarded" post. The whales and bots are the one that gives the high rewards. Krnel is just posting 4 posts a day. If the autovotes are set to vote every post from a user, that's their fault.
Everyone is going along the side of the whales and not want to be on their bad side. Krnel has a valid point. The behavior of this particular flagging is based on the individual that judges and says a post is "overrewarded." I find it "underwarded" like everyone else's posts on Steemit. Don't we all think the content we create ourselves is valuable? otherwise we wouldn't create it in the first place right?
Now we have to post and vote the way the whales want us otherwise, you will lose rewards. This is not how a community should come to consensus to determine what to flag.
Edit: Doesn't incentivize me
Your video has a lot of assumptions as to the way krnel feels about his rewards and steemit itself based on no factual evidence. @krnel is a hard working member of the steemit community and I think it is wrong to punish him for it. Using your argument of flagging to reduce rewards to make others want to strive, if a new user sees all this drama between whales and big bloggers on the platform how do you think they would feel? I personally don't feel comfortable working towards something just to be downvoted and hated for it. In the real world hard work is matched with rewards, and as you said yourself bots follow the money so how is it his fault bots are upvoting him (i read @berniesanders talk about the flags being a result of bots upvoting him)? This whole situation is terrible for the community, we should stop acting like little kids and accept that someone is more successful than you.
@krnel started all the drama, so new users can have a bad impression of steemit, this action discounts any previous hard work put in.
I'd like to ask you just a couple questions. The first being, if @krnel was never flagged for having content too good in the eyes of whales would the drama have started? and the second being, would you enjoy being flagged on something you put a lot of hard work into creating? I think you are having trouble looking past popular opinion and you are letting it blind your judgment.
the flag is a private matter between krnel and smooth, no need for all that public drama. I have been flagged many times before, and my reaction is to agree and accept the flag, as denying would only dig a deeper hole for myself. I never work hard on blog posts or anything in life. All I do is have fun 24/7, so I'm not the right person to ask questions that have to do with the idea of "work"
ok :)
I like your clips. Thank you and your opinion for me sounds to be right.
Craig I love how you are start to pick up on your timing and picking better subjects to cover! Good job mate!