I am very excited for the "Steem Growth Forum" that @aggroed is hosting this Saturday. IMO, this could turn into something as big (if not bigger) for the Steem ecosystem than SteemFest.
There are a lot of great minds on Steemit, and this is an opportunity for us all to get together and discuss our ideas for how to move the platform forward.
The form will be a two hour moderated conversation with anyone from the following groups being able to participate:
- Top 30 witnesses
- Whales (50k sp)
- Follower whales (5k followers+)
- Discord community leaders (500 members+)
- Steemit, Inc. employees
Anyone in the community is allowed to listen in.
For full details, see @aggroed's post:
Announcement: Steemit Growth Forum // Saturday November 18th 11AM NYC time (1600 UTC) held Virtually on MSPWaves Radio within the PALnet Discord channel.
It is good to keep us engaged.
Thanks for sharing
Mild correction. Anyone in those groups is welcome on air, and will be guaranteed time to the best of my ability. Folks that don't meet those cutoffs are still able to attend, participate through the chat, post about it, and make proposals, thoughts etc. If time remains they will be allowed to participate on air.
It's a platform with 450k accounts. I can't give everyone 5 min on air, and it's important to note this is the start of the conversation.
@aggroed thank you for the clarification. 450k is awesome, congrats. I will be definitely participating. There's always room for growth :) Best wishes .... and steem on.
Anything that can boost the growth of the platform is worth listening in on. I will be there.
Thanks tim, for the reminder. I can't make this one but I'll make the next one. We need more forums like this where we can thrash out ideas and get things moving and bring people together.
I just made a note in my calendar to listen in.
well, since the venerable timcliff said I should go... it's on my radar ;)
I will try to be there! Thanks for the invitation!
Sounds like a worthwhile time to learn and grow! I will check it out. Thanks.
Hi @timcliff this sounds like an opportunity to me :) I'm not in one of the groups yet...but sky's the limit. Any other forums for growth ? Best wishes.
This is the only one that I know of.
@timcliff Ok. Thank you :)
suggestion: you might repost this (several times) before the event happens.
otherwise it is likely to get lost on the blockchain.(people forget if not reminded...repeatedly)
Why don't you consider to allow some minnows to apply for joining the show? Discussions should be spread among representatives throughout the Community instead of just the top.
I really like the idea so please don't get me wrong ;) Just my humble opinion to improve it as a live chat just isn't the same :)
See @aggroed’s comment at the top of the post :)
Ah okay wasn´t up there before but sounds good :) Anyways it´s somehow still just "if time remains minnows can join the show". My thought was to include 1 or 2 chosen ones right away to represent the majority of our Community. Don´t make us just listen and text in the chat :P
We'll see how it goes
If your interested in that every Sunday night we have a show where plenty of minnows come on air and discuss their projects and thoughts about steemit! In fact a large part of the radio content is interviews with steemit members both big and small.
I´m listening to MSP sometimes and really like the way it´s done :) My point here is just that I´d like to see 1 or 2 Minnows included into the Discussions so that the whole Community is represented in the show instead of just the top. I know that it´s impossible to have everyone speak but I guess many would appreciate to hear some Minnows taking place in this event on air from the very beginning. It´s just a suggestion from my side and could maybe even be handled via a contest for future shows :)
A contest could be a great idea, I too would love to have some minnows mixed in, maybe not complete newbies but people who understand the platform a bit. My understanding is that this is the first of many discussions to come so hopefully we will be able to arrange something like that for the next round :)
Yeah that would really be cool & I mean according to the Minnow Definition you will still find a lot of people who are here for more than 6 months already ;)
:-)
Looking forward to listening in on this. @aggroed has put a lot of work into creating the @minnowsupport project and forums like this should help out with the forward vision of Steemit. Thanks for sharing @Timcliff!
Everyone should be voting Witnesses on Steemit, including @timcliff and @aggroed!
Great! We need more of these kind of "meetings", so Steemit can grow in a positive way :-)
If you need a mannequin, just let me know, haha!
Big hug
Steemitri The Mannequin
important topic
Heyy Tim I would like to make you a personal GIF !!!! :)
Hope that something exciting outcome will be the end result. Not just mere voice chat.
I will just listen in !
thanks sir @timcliff for upadates and information about "Steem Growth Forum" that is hosted by @aggroed. impressed and appreciated efforts for development and promotion of steem.
So there are what 100, maybe 150 people who fit those criteria of the maybe 30k ish actually human daily users and 300k ish alleged accounts? (If that many even?) Interesting threshold choices. Even as some of those people rarely show up to work anymore or just bought their way in and a good bit of the most exciting future work is being done by newer arrivals. Forgive me for not feeling your excitement here Tim about the steem equivalent of the Bilderberg meetings. I guess I am going to fire up a meeting that is really for the people by the people and get some fresh ideas instead of hearing from the same old fat wallet crowd some more. After all, they have had nearly two years and things are going downhill around here, not upward, so, maybe we should hear from someone new now and then?
The ideas is to try and get a large group of 'movers and shakers' into a form together to chat. Input from "the people" is important too, but it would be difficult to have a productive conversation with 30,000 people.
Ironically, we have this blogging platform where people can put forth ideas and share them for discussion, that supports tens of thousands of users :D
I understand the "goal" but I feel a lot like it's barriers to entry will mean pretty much more of the same we hear from these people anyway.
But we both know even with maybe 25K users a day logging in, the movers and shakers list includes a TON of people who can't make these thresholds. Not to mention, I will reiterate that these same movers and shakers are largely split into those who move and shake, and those who move funds and shake hands. The truth lies more in this post from @pharesim than most want to admit: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@pharesim/call-for-witness-support
Because to be frank, YOU and a few others are anomalies at the top. Ones who got there on merit when you still could without a giga vested backer or two in your corner. The ones doing things like Pharesim and GTG and a few others who produce for the whole blockchain and not just their club members are the least likely to show at this and saying as much on the aggroed post about it in the comments. The most hurrahing going on over there is the other PAL witnesses who all stand to benefit from the "altruistic" exposure here.
I'm not here to be popular, I'm here to help people all over the world with the borderless transparent power of the block chain and crypto and to do so with the love and generosity of the entire community. Now that it is underway, I'm finding that love and generosity is coming from mostly the ground up, not the top down. And I expected as much. But it's a bit disappointing.
I was in the in club for a bit, and checked out of my own accord, because I don't want to play those games. This smacks of more of the "let's do something splashy and keep our names in lights" approach than a real game changer.
I'm already brainstorming now, on a plan to get this kind of town hall going with the middle tier, not the total noobs who haven't figured the place out yet, but not the 1%ers either. The real meat in this sandwich is in the middle.
For example, @elear probably fits the 500 member community threshold NOW, with Utopian.io, but he would not have even maybe only a month ago, definitely not 90 days ago. And some of the biggest contributors I know of in terms of delegations and curation and so on, again, dolphins and super low tier whales, many with names that are decidedly not name brands around here.
Heck even I am pretty well known but make none of the cut-offs and as far as I know, I'm running the only global block chain only based world humanitarian aid foundation that exists. It's getting a ton of attention and traction for only a few short weeks old and I've had to neglect it during an interstate residential move for a couple weeks of it's young life.
Projects like mine are not alone, there are lots of them, after all, the platform isn't THAT old, and the folks who make these cut-offs ARE the old guard mostly, and well, they haven't gotten us very far to date, really. If you are brutally honest about it.
There are practical limitations to the number of people that can go on a 2 hr radio show. There are minnows, dolphins, and whales that fit into these categories. It's unfortunate you haven't met any of the minimums, but I think the audience will appreciate hearing from these folks in our first round of this.
It's not a Bilderberg meeting. It's a public access listening and chat experience for the entire community, and a public discussion of issues central to the platform by those that have earned significant platform stake weight in a number of ways live on air. Again it includes lots of types of people.
Everyone in this community is welcome to attend and participate through chat in the public Discord channel, unless of course you're banned from it for routinely breaking community standards and rules, which as it stands includes you. For the rest of Tim Cliff's audience I look forward to having them attend and participate assuming they can abide by some pretty low bar community standards.
I have already made a note in the witness channel that my plan is to create a similar forum for folks that haven't made quite as much progress. For members that meet those requirements they'll be able to participate live on air, but of course a minimum standard for all will include not being banned by the PALnet community.
Steem has risen 5x in the year+ that I've been here. It's grown 4x by account. These guys are doing great. Facebook wasn't built in a day.
That was a long winded jab for sure. It's important to point out that I QUIT before I was "banned" arbitrarily by the starry eyed hypnotized lover of someone I was totally right about, that some of your best leadership left for the same reasons as me, and that you ended up following through TWO MONTHS later on the reasons we left and eliminated the toxin anyway, then went on to keep doing business as usual, while the radio crew still wanders over my way to say hello and wonders about their futures there. Just sayin.
Steem and voting are at the lowest they have been since I found the platform. User signups are down, and were nearly impossible for weeks this fall, just now rising up to reasonable 2k a dayish numbers now, and more folks that end up having significant presence on the platform leave PAL than stay, lately, Yes, you get the bot dependent redfish, but you cater to the 1%ers and in crowd. Most of us out here know it. That's why all the Huzzahs on this post are either PAL incrowd big fish or generally really small fish people we never heard of yet.
Such is life.
I wasn't going to air this laundry publically, but hey, you failed to "deescalate" this time.
Don't just take it from me, take it from someone you always seemed to adore unless that's just tactical adoration, of course.
https://steemit.com/deathspiral/@stellabelle/is-steemit-in-an-economic-and-social-suicide-death-spiral
You're a discord community leader aren't you @sircork. Thought you had a discord for your charity if I remember correctly :D.
I'm a little ole minnow, but I feel the winds of change. Just keep doing what you're doing for your charity and the steemit community. The old guard never stays around forever.
I agree. I am a discord leader, for my @YouAreHOPE Foundation project. But its really only been open for about a week, maybe less, since I began really telling people it exists and I only have about 60 members - most of them from PAL, looking for a new home :)
Totally agree - There are so many people putting in the work to actually build projects/tools/communities of value both on Steemit and Cross-chain that will never meet the threshold to be directly included. The "inner circle" at the top of Steemit has already been established. They have their own agenda, we just have to hold on and hope for the best.
We the newcomers must rise to the occasion, adapt, improvise, and overcome!
There is SO much good being done by people who do not meet these thresholds and the whole thing is just more of the same. Like has been said on this thread, the old guard just gets older. We are coming, the new, the fresh, the strong and we will make HUGE differences for the community, the platform and the world in the coming months. We too will get big, but since we didn't come here when there was nobody around to "compete" with last year, we will have to work harder, and as such, I suspect we will lift those that come after us, rather than parading around congratulating ourselves and preening with the other old guard that had no competition for visibility or ever scarcer big votes back then either.
So, you still voted our witness up until about two minutes ago, when I unvoted you for continuing to disparage legitimate work because you believe that anyone and anything with even a cursory tie to MSP or any whale you don't approve of is the death of the platform. Do you believe that we have gotten where we are because we haven't done any work? As 'new, fresh, and strong ' - because that's what we are - who spend all day, every day, in Steemit Chat and Discord helping in any myriad of ways, who have worked to contribute both directly to PAL and to ALL of Steemit, do you believe that we shouldn't have a shot to rise as well? You seem to be saying that you simply believe that only new witnesses should be considered right and true and useful, but then also shun any who rise TOO quickly, even when they've dedicated full time careers for almost half a year now. Is it enough? It's starting to be. All of our tools are publicly available for use by any Steemian, and built for those who want to find and use information that they may find difficult as new users to the platform, so I'm curious to know why getting some large votes from accounts who are starting to see that worth makes those contributions any less valuable.
This is one discussion of many, which invites this specific "untouchable group" to be willing to come talk openly in a forum where questions can be asked and minnows can actually listen in. Your complaints about the old guard are that they don't listen to or want to discuss the needs of this evolving platform, yet get upset at the first attempt to ask them to willingly come together and speak directly to the minnows and middle class who normally don't have access to them. You seem to be assuming that some massive decisions will be made or something of the like. Why would you NOT want these people to step up and actually speak? And why would you believe that other cohorts wouldn't be involved in this and similar discussions by chatting along and holding these people accountable, or having the next discussion with a different set of participants? You're painting with an awfully broad brush
Most of the biggest ones are commenting they don't plan to attend. I unvoted your witness because I did in fact make the assumption it was your counterpart who unvoted mine, not you Jeff, and it surprised me, but i needed some open slots to add some other witnesses anyway, and you handed me a reason. Your partner calls them spite votes, Id call yours a spite unvoting, to be honest.
You and I always got along, but you DID decide to stay and support something ive seen from the inside and its not entirely pretty and rosy in there, and you darn well know it. I really feel like you could do SO MUCH more good untethered from them.
How much has PAL paid you to support what you do and pay for, for them? If its like the radio, they will post and profit off you, but you will pay for your contributions to $100 dollar bragging posts on your back, without seeing much help to pay for your RPC, and the Radio bills you pay and so on. Delegations to the radio don't count, when the bills are a couple hundred fiat cash per month out of pocket. I dont know why you do it, and that is your call, but it smells like others making post money off your work to me.
Tell me you are being repaid for all you pay for, and I'll stand down on that, but you are not, and yet the brag posts from your leaders routinely bank big bucks for shit posts about going on the air on the station you work hard on and pay for.
But hey here's 5 bucks for writing a love juice commercial to the best writer who makes us back 100 on the announcement post for promoting the pornographic profit bot.
Whatever Jeff, I have no idea why you choose to donate so much, but what you get back, aside from visibility, doesn't measure up, and the minute you shun anything, watch that visibility fail you. The family is not that tight after all. Except for the ones who play both sides or left completely, and we all seem to having a grand time post-PAL out here in other communities.
End of the day man, I still like you, but I don't know why you put up with it.
The whales who come to this will all paint a rosy picture like Aggroed tried to do up there in his comment, but it's not the reality of the platform's numbers right now.
Heh, either way, I kept my mouth shut, but Mr Deescalator up there poked the bear and you did too by unvoting, and thats cool I get it. True colors will eventually shine on Agg, but i didn't see it coming from you.
Actually, he came to me and let me know he un-voted you along with his reasoning, and while I told him I didn't want to until you answered his questions first to get the benefit of the doubt, I fully supported his logic. However, you didn't, and your instant assumption he was coerced to "spite un-vote you" is...telling, wholly incorrect, almost martyrish in it's insinuation of personal attack...and a little bit pot-to-kettle, frankly. You didn't answer his question about whether or not being new witnesses who work incredibly hard, both at MSP, and on our own ventures much moreso, is enough for you. You didn't address why you're so mad about people outside of the old guard rising relatively quickly, because in reality, all of our large, moving votes have come in direct correlation to the free tools and scripts and other work that we've pushed out into the Steemit ecosystem with Steemistry.
You are so fixated on the performance of others on the platform and how they generate profit, which is on a sliding scale of importance directly correlated to the reward pool drain. The rampant abuses that drain thousands of dollars a day, the bot accounts racking up thousands of dollars a day, the proliferation of thousands of copy paste shit posts a day — this is where we need to start focusing our efforts as a collective, and part of that is looking at how to make curating good content as lucrative as going out and buying a vote among a million other things. The only way to change that is to get up to the top, and to do that on merit. You seem to be angry with us both for actually rising with verifiable non-MSP work (with no begging or bullshit), but also for NOT making money.
Half your response is about others making money, and why not us?! We donate a number of services both to MSP and other projects. That's our prerogative, because we set out clearly when we started that we would donate to development. Just like we don't charge subscriptions for the stuff we build (and there are competing services who do) we don't begrudge how people choose to make their money on here, provided it doesn't represent a significant imbalance to the reward pool by unethical means like spam and scams — not just because of dirty limericks. (As for lovejuice, I don't really care either way; I just looked, and minnows can afford it, unlike most big bid accounts now. It pays $5 to minnows who contribute, and usually makes less than $2 on each post it paid for. Choose your battles. I made $100 in three posts. Come for me, then.) We are not questing after money; you can look at our wallets and see that clearly and fairly. There are a million roads we could take to get rich which would launch us beyond witnessing and MSP, and they would be shitty and harm the long term viability of Steemit. We don't need to be paid back for donations freely offered. We make them to MSP, and even more frequently, we make them to the Steemit ecosystem overall.
There needs to be competition to build a fatter middle class — and that does mean profit. I'm quite altruistic, but also believe that you need to grow to exert influence, and that both my art and my business work deserve to be paid. That doesn't mean I chase the people donate to in a guilt-trip, or scam the people of a platform I love. It means I put my fucking head down, do the work in ALL of the pots on the stove, and earn it by rising to be a high level witness. It is all deserved, despite your continued passive suggestion we do not. Competition between witnesses, devs, and even Steemians, if you frame it between the bot-nets and shit posters and the people who come here just looking for a chance and something new, is growth. We've done that WITHOUT shilling for money, and asking "what's in it for us."
Pulling some whales into discussion is a step to take towards that, just like we're also encouraging follow-up forums of different groups as well. It makes sense to put those who will talk in front of an audience to prompt them to listen, instead of just blindly up-voting a post full of lies they will never read. I don't understand why you're threatened by trying to gather a group that normally stays out of the light and away from the people who are asking for this. I also don't know why you think that the same thing isn't being prepped for smaller influencers and the smallest users as well, since that's already been addressed. These are the sorts of things that need to happen to get everyone moving, and I'm sorry your giant slew of assumptions has you casting aspersions on my partner. Perhaps you believe he or I don't deserve a voice either?
Last week we started declining any witness post payouts unless it was a tool that killed us with a significant cost out of pocket. People could profit from that by posting about us and our stuff, but that doesn't change our reasoning nor our efforts; please don't bother getting enraged on our behalf about that, either. Whatever true colours you think you see in Jeff, because he and I continue to both work hard for ourselves, Steemit and for other projects — including MSP — in the way we have always promised to...well, I posit you need your eyes checked. Jeff is one of the best Steemians out there, which is why I stand with him and work with him every day.
Funny, everything Ive ever seen you do is for PAL and PAL doesnt really pay you back, been there, paid for it, ate it and know it all too well.
And if you can stand without PAL, why do you bother there?
Anyway, nice of you to respond, first words from you in a long time, and I'll take them, even if they are not particularly nice. Yep, I was right about sam, and that will never be admitted, and I'm not real wrong here either. But time will tell that too.
Sucks you've chosen like you do, I operate off things that come true though, and you mostly just operate on something I can't figure out. Some kind of loyalty to something that has only marginally been loyal to you, and at least USED to upset you daily and I know this from your own mouth.
Why? There is no /shrug here, but imagine it happening anyway, just for moment, just to see how it feels.
I miss the shit out of you. I still love you, and I respect you, and yet, we will never agree on the merits of the same people that youve supported even as you told me in private how much grief they caused you.
Marginalized, mysognized and still you cling. I don't get it. I have more respect for you than you think despite you breaking my heart every single day. And so it goes. Im all good out here. People love the project Im building and its getting more attention and traction than i ever dreamed of.
Surprisingly losing all the PAL witness votes didnt even move my number at all. I truly was surprised by that, but it allowed me to change some votes too and give them to people trying in earnest to give more than they keep.
I kept you two till today, because I like Jeff and I love you, but when he, or both of you agreed to, drop me, well, it did "speak volumes" about the value and loyalty behind your vote there.
Its not for whats good for the world and whats good for the block, its what visibility and politics it causes for you.
Keep sticking with a ship that is losing relevance and important members all the time. I guess it works for you.
But neither of you need them, and its my belief they end up holding you back, costing you income and preventing your real freedom to be yourselves and contribute as you wish to the chain.
Steemistry is still associated with PAL, so what are these projects you two do, that are not PAL. Its not the rpc node or the steemit fork or steemistry or your other tools, so what are they?
While we are at it, I am ABSOLUTELY not against people making money on the chain, but those that do so while in part taking advantage of others (pay for my radio station while i make $150 shit posts and eat chips on the air) or who do so while pretending they are all about giving while at most delegating which is not giving up shit at all, are fakirs and snake oil and no better than your recently outted senior mod last week.
There are people here who admit to making money, and offer good services, like someguy and reggae and i keep them voted, but others who just "take what they can and burn the rest", or who wont remove a mod because it might cost them money and suckup value, can suck it.
Thank you so much! However I cannot attend, because despite all the posts aggroed has written about all my contributions there and the fact he wouldnt even HAVE a radio station for this if I HAD NOT built it for him to eat potato chips on and play the same six songs every week, I am banned by the girlfriend of the guy I left over, who later ended up fired for all the reasons I cited anyway.
This is why I don't trust this forum. The players involved are not known for being entirely truthful.
have you every head of the communist concept called a mass-line? 30k is child's play
Downvoting a bit just to get the drama off the top comments in my post.
I'm really really sorry this happened here @timcliff but this had take place on DMZ turf, because these people won't talk anywhere else. :(
I knew even as it was unfolding it was costing me credibility with you, that may have not existed in the first place. You know how much I admire you, we've discussed it live in public. That has not changed. I am ashamed to be involved in chats like this one and its been months ive kept my mouth shut, until today when Mr Deescaltor, chose to jab jab jab and some truths needed to be aired. And that totally sucks :(
Moving on... :)
Exactly. :|
great
nice post.
Awesome
Your posts are very interesting.....
Congratulations @timcliff!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following category:
Can we powerless minnows submit questions or topics for discussion somehow?
Yeah, there's a live chat. Come participate!