"....and when you start to realise that the majority of people under the age of 50 will likely never see a pension, or have a retirement age lower than about 80 (due to the huge amount of unfunded liabilities).."..!! I could not agree more. I have been banging on about this for years to a hail of abuse saying that Banks have it all under control. When I tell them that Derivatives are running the show and will implode soon, they think I am from outer-space..!! See you on Wednesday. Stephen