So flag abuse has been a hot topic of discussion for some time. I've started to change up my posting style and get more involved in posting video into the mix of posts I've been sharing. @Reseller I couldn't get anything going on DTube unfortunately man.
The point of this is to generate discussion as to how we could improve flagging and why it's not working currently. Flagging in it's current form allows for censorship which commonly refers to institutional censorship, but in a way this is very similar if not the same. A private entity is able to use their money to buy SP and then be able to effectively silence opinions they don't agree with or want to go unheard. This doesn't help anyone. Eventually Steemit could just be owned by one religion who persecutes everything. There are so many terrible outcomes with this model for control. I think it should be fully revamped. Flagging should be relative to your reputation. It's obvious to me that trustworthiness and the influence you should have on others should correlate with how high your reputation is because you could only get a high one if you don't cause problems to begin with. This would be a more realistic way to do it fairly. Now we have the issue this presents where how can we choose how much to take away from a posts earnings, well I think you should be able to do that, BUT they should be separate.
The idea I had in mind is having flagging which for abuse, spam, etc. where you take away earnings from someone but not hurt their reputation. Not agreeing with someone shouldn't ruin their reputation because then we have a bunch of people going around just trying to please whales and no one is writing anything original or value driven. We do not want this type of community. How can we avoid that? Well, my answer is downvoting and flagging separated via steem power and reputation. I'm sure a lot would have to be worked out, but I'm open to hearing other ideas and suggestions!
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Also I realized that my audio was weirdly unsynced. Will not happen on the next video
Can flagging be reduced to what the name implies, a flag. Meaning something is unique about a particular user. Different colors of flags for different reasons. For example, if I happen to have a strong opinion on the use of bots, one way, and someone else disagrees, that person could throw a “purple” flag. This would indicate to others my position at a glance rather than them wasting time on me. I also think each persons quiver of flags be limited as to number and color. That would, in theory, put value on them and make one think about frivolously using them. Furthermore if a number preceded a flag icon in a users header it would indicate the number of users that agree with the flag “thrown”. Then, we as free thinking, self governing individuals can decide whether or not to follow, mute or just move on.
I agree fully with @cpnjacksparrow and his view of “digital property” and what gives “you” the right to mess with it. The US Constitution guaranties freedom of religion, aka my personal beliefs. Also theres the whole freedom of speach thing. This doesn’t guarantee you to be heard, only to say what’s on your mind. I realize that Steemit is global and the US Con. isn’t the ultimate, but there is a reason why people from all over, have, do, and will flock here.
As is, the flag, has way to much power and something needs to be done. Maybe just one per customer. I know there are bad actors who may have more than one account. But when there is a will there is a way, and multi account users could be known. Perhaps they could have there own flag color. I suggest baby poop green.
I appreciate your desire to open conversation on this issue. And hopefully we, the mature adults, who don’t respond with knee jerk reactions, can find a solution that works for the platform. Keep up the good work.
Yeah I was worried I may be penalized for bringing it up but hey it's about improving and free speech. I only want to make things better for everyone, bottom line. I do think tiered flags would make sense. Also I want to just say that multi accounts isn't really an issue. Some people differentiate their content. For example here I try to do only useful value driven content with the occasional change up with like philosophy or something. On my music account @scottychams I ONLY post music more or less. This way people can follow either account based on their interests. Actually not only is multi accounts not bad, it's more challenging for me as a user because my audiences are spread out and I have much more work to handle.
An absolutely solid reason for someone to have multiple accounts, gives me ideas as I face that dilemma.
its easy and inexpensive to make one. I've got articles on different ways you can if you'd like a link that I've wrote
Yeah the link would be appreciated. Thanks man!
You can do it via blocktrades easiest or anonsteem. https://steemit.com/steemit/@scottcbusiness/bypass-steemit-signup-use-multiple-accounts-or-get-verified-faster
I thought I had a demo for blocktrades so today I'll write one.
Just uploaded it, video plus article :)
https://steemit.com/steemiteducation/@scottcbusiness/9t03y7li
Thanks Scott, seams simple enough.
I strongly agree with the above opinion, because I myself have felt the "Flag" of one of the Whales, just because I made different comments about their writing and it was very painful for me.
For this solution I agree, but only limited comments are not within the scope of posts.
Thanks and yeah I've seen it happen and it's wrong and I think we can figure out something better
Even the idea of reputation-based flagging can still be abused. I think aside from not harming your reputation, flagging should be based on number of downvotes rather than SP. Some whales just go around downvoting people for not agreeing with their point of view. Very childish behaviour. Some even brag and taunt people openly.
If 200 people downvote your post because it's racist or abusive, it's a better indication of bad content than one person cancelling all your rewards out of spite.
Exactly 100% I think at the very least make downvotes more representational to what people actually feel. You make a great point that 200 downvotes would make a lot more sense to tell something was wrong. Also there should be a difference between thinking it's earned too many rewards and lowering their rep because they've abused in some way.
Nyc video dude keep it up and dont forget to subscribe my channel
hahahaha we will
ey cheers!
Flagging is a NAP violation unless it's actually against aggression. It's financial aggression against private property that was given to them through upvote from private individuals. You should allow people to do what they want as long a it isn't hurting anyone else. You should allow people to be free. If you don't like a post, ignore it. If it's not up to par for you, then ignore it. Don't try to hurt people because they didn't spend all day writing a post. Some people just want to throw down some thoughts like they do on facebook! Some people have a life outside of Steemit and don't spend every waking minute on it. They're actually outside doing shit with people. They're living, having fun, getting drunk, getting laid. Maybe you need to get laid if you're so concerned about posts on Steemit.
I'm not interested in trying to control what other people post. This is cryptocurrency. It's Decentralized. It's generally where you find Freedom-minded people. It's where you find Voluntaryists.
If you want to control what people post and how they spend their money, that's communism or socialism. I hear about whether people should be allowed to buy votes from bidbots. If a person voluntarily spends their money to purchase a service from another person who voluntarily takes their money, that's Free Market. A person voluntarily uses their own money to buy something from someone who voluntarily used their money to fund a bot with Steem Power. That's Free Market. That's free association. That's Freedom.
If somebody voluntarily uses their money to buy votes and then you try to hurt them because you think it doesn't deserve to be that much, you are aggressing against them. It's financial aggression. That value was bought by them, and it's their property. You're essentially stealing their property that they paid for. It's digital property, but it's property. The Non-Aggression Principle says that aggression is only moral in defense.
It's no different than if someone paid someone to paint their car, and you don't think they deserves to look that good so you smash it up and scratch the paint. You've just destroyed their property they paid for. It's like somebody paying for someone to plant flowers in their yard, but you don't think they deserve to have that many flowers in their yard so you go kick their flowers and smash them. It's like you buying a new laptop, but somebody doesn't think you deserve that laptop because (insert dumb ass reason #242) so you shit on the keyboard when they get up to get a drink of water. How many more metaphors do I need? You're violating other people's property that they paid for from a person who voluntarily sold it to them. It's Free Market. It's Freedom. And, some of you are fucking it up. It shouldn't even be a discussion. It should be Freedom. Period.
At least on facebook, I don't see people financially hurting anyone. They just ignore stuff they don't like. The flag should very rarely be used if ever. The only legitimate and moral use of it on OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS is if somebody threatens violence either physical or financial or they actually do financially hurt you. That's the only legitimate use of it on other people's posts. On your posts, you can look at as your property. If you think spam makes your post look bad, then that's a legitimate use. When you post on somebody else's post, you can assume that they may not like what you wrote on THEIR post. If they do like it though, you may get some rewards.
So I have a Radical Idea. How about we mind our own fucking business if we don't like something, leave people alone, stop damaging other people's property. Let's be Free
Well said. Unfortunately there aren’t enough like minded people here. But those that are should stick together.
Thank you my friend! I put a lot of thought into that and this subject over the last few months. I try to apply Voluntaryist philosophy to every area of life. I've had several discussions about it too. This is the inevitable result of more adoption. Adoption is good. But, it brings in more people that have been conditioned with certain anti-freedom beliefs. But, it gives us a chance to share the message of freedom to those who may have not heard it yet.
I never really thought about steemit as a way to “spread the message of freedom “ but you are right on with that statement. Thanks for the enlightening.
You're very welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read
Well written haha you are right. People need to be more sparing with their flagging and I think because we can't force anything we should atleast have different versions of the flag. I think the best solution so far is to have reputation lowering and the lowering of someone's payout be a separate thing.
I think that would be much more fair. A flag that lets you express your opinion without financial harm and taking away what other's have given them.
Exactly. It's impossible to not take it personally when your finances are under attack. It's your livelihood
Exactly. And, it's also a moral issue for me too. I believe in Voluntaryism as a philosophy and believe the NAP is an essential practice to attain a peaceful and prosperous life and, in turn, a peaceful and prosperous world. The NAP is basically the golden rule in practice. Or in action
Yeah 100%
I agree with you 100% on separating the downvote away from the reputation to preserve diversity and free speech.
Thanks I think it's super important! I have another article talking about it too
Im pretty new to steem and still finding my feet 4 months in, but the more I engage, the more I am committed to the idea of voices other than my own practised comfort zone, difference of opinion and even following and supporting people waaaay outside my comfort zone and even areas of interest. Could you post a link to the other one? :) munching on my lunch here in Thailand. :)
https://steemit.com/steemit/@scottcbusiness/the-downvote-proposal-a-solution-to-the-flag-crisis
Thank you - shall read a little later with interest. :)
Awesome! Let me know :)
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Thanks! I try to keep it real and do my best
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I agree that there should be a form of "flagging" that doesn't hurt user rep. However, there's always going to be the spammers that need real flags IMO
yeah 100%, I think we need to be able to take away funds separately from lowering someone's rep. Because someone could have earned too much and you just disagree but don't want to lower their rep
I totally agree, the reputation is much important than steem power. Reputation is our hard work and nobody can buy it, but steem power is easy to buy. I will vote for you as witness, you deserve that. ☺
Thank you I appreciate your support! A lot of what I bring to the table is an honest open discussion about important topics here on Steemit :) My main goal is improving communications between end users and witnesses