Anyone who has been around Steemit for awhile may have noticed a certain "veneer of fakeness" that goes around, particularly in the comments of posts. Sycophancy is a good word for it. You get the distinct impression that many users are walking on eggshells to avoid saying anything that might rock the boat.
It's just the way humans are wired. Nobody hears a bunch of criticism about themselves and then thinks "yeah, I'd like to help that person." Steemit, however, takes this phenomenon even further.
Unfortunately, this is a natural consequence of tying people's economic interests into their ability to express their opinions. Unlike Reddit, where an unpopular opinion can only cost you meaningless karma, on Steemit you can make an enemy who will follow you around and damage you financially for as long as you are using your account.
If you are a witness, you can lose critical support necessary to maintain your ranking, leaving you in an even more severe variant of the prisoner's dilemma.
This makes both real criticism and unpopular opinions rarely worth expressing, unless you don't care about your potential earnings. Why write a post or comment that could get you flagged, when you can simply do nothing?
Authors are often placed in the middle of confrontations between two whales, receiving flags over disagreements about rewards allocations they had nothing to do with.
I often find myself placed in the position of either having to remain silent on the many culture (flag) wars happening at Steemit, or risk drawing the kind of attention that nobody wants to their blog. Given the time and stress involved in wading into these issues, it's simply easier to ignore them.
I fear such silence may set a grim precedent, but hey - they haven't come for me yet, right? (Well, at least not recently.)
We also have a Radio Station! (click me)
...and a 5000+ active user Discord Chat Server! (click me)
Sources: Niemoller
Copyright: Chappelle's Show, Flickr
I am of the opinion that as long as we are stating facts, we can't really lose in the debate.
It's also important that we address behaviors when we criticize and not someone. If I was to say @soandso is an asshole, that says nothing about the behavior, and thus fixes or addresses nothing.
If we talk facts, and we catch flags, the real "loser" is the person/user who had to resort to flagging because he/she ran out of arguments.... and in that case, I would take the flag as an honor badge.
"I am of the opinion that as long as we are stating facts, we can't really lose in the debate."
Have you not been watching the course of culture and politics in this country? Facts are now borderline irrelevant to the average idiot.
"honor badge."
Not much of a badge, tbh, considering they already attacked your rewards.
@soandso is an asshole and @cantstandthatguy is a prick ! (-:
I hate that guy!
I am John Galt!!! Just waiting for the right time.
I've already passed my "gone Galt" moment, I'm afraid.
Haha Dave Chappelle, love and miss that guy. Anyways, you have solid point and you are probably one of the first people I have seen that talks about this and keeps it real.
On the bright side, we have a hater free environment that is not always the most objective but at least if anyone wants peace and quiet they can come over to Steemit where people are sensitive :)
"we have a hater free environment"
I'd love it if you could direct me there, as I haven't seen one.
Well you can never have a hater free environment. I was just using that as a figure of speech. I have seen many forums where people are just super toxic. Everything has it's ups and downs. While Steemit might have a lot of fake people at least they are encouraging a more positive environment. I am sure we could still find ways to disagree with each other without being toxic.
Thanks for this, Lexiconical. This phenomenon is something I have been pondering for months. Not sure of all the implications and I'm not sure what to do about it (if anything).
I don't think there's anything for us to do to collectively make changes. You can either pander and avoid flags, or say something real and receive them.
I've pretty much lost my patience for it, tbh.
Yeah, I get this. It's hard to have patience in situations like those. sigh I still hope something will shift to make a positive and effective solution possible
I love the expression: "veneer of fakeness." Nice thought-provoking post as usual.
I avoid conflict most of the time to stay in my lane and focus on having fun. I don't need abusive faceless people with excruciating ego disorders meddling in my "blogging experience." It's not healthy, and it's terrible that interacting with them can ruin peoples' accounts if you disagree loudly enough. Some flagging is necessary, but most is not.
Some people confuse abusive voting power as authority and righteousness. The irony of their own history of transparent rewards pool abuse is comical, and pushing a downvote to silence or hide conflict is extreme weakness. It's more than bullying. These people are simply toxic and harmful to the community, despite their opinion. Herding sheep to support their hysteria makes the problem even worse. Leading by a terrible example is not leadership.
While I feel terrible for unjust victims, at this stage, they know what they're getting into, and what's at risk. As more people adopt the platform, the abusive folk will become more absurd on a global basis, less relevant/popular, and likely have to remain faceless for their own safety.
"I don't need abusive faceless people with excruciating ego disorders meddling in my "blogging experience.""
As Colbert would say, this is hitting me right in the Truthiness.
"It's not healthy, "
Particularly psychologically...ever observe how an author new to getting flagged responds when getting dog-piled? It always escalates.
"These people are simply toxic and harmful to the community, despite their opinion."
I see no solutions other than forking these people off, which is really no solution at all.
Thank you for your dedicated and high-quality comments, and forgive the late replies.
Steemit is mostly the platform that fights against human nature. I hope in the future there are more limits to account for it. There probably needs to be something in place that prevents one person from just flagging one account on every single post.
"Steemit is mostly the platform that fights against human nature."
I call it ignorance of human psychology and game theory.
No idea how to implement your suggestion, unfortunately, without centralization.
Yea no one has time to get flagged. Steemit does need some changes. It's lost that 🔥
Unfortunately, I do not know what to suggest that would meet with stake-weighted approval.
so true i can find at this post...!!
This junk comment only barely lost to your buddy one comment down for "worst spam comment of day."
We are all trying to earn something here on steemit and being flagged and not collecting your reward is a heart breaker. I wanted to write about this flag of a thing but i did not because of the fear of being followed aroung and FLAG!.
I hope flagging will be restricted to some delegated people who the main reason for flagging will be known and not everyone while some will be miss using it.
@seyiodus.
"I wanted to write about this flag of a thing but i did not because of the fear of being followed aroung and FLAG!."
This is exactly the kind of conversation stifling my title refers to.
"I hope flagging will be restricted to some delegated people who the main reason for flagging will be known and not everyone while some will be miss using it."
Unlikely to happen, but it would certainly stop most opinion flagging, which I find to be one of the most distasteful kinds.
Its the people with the most steem power isn't it? Flagging is essentially nothing more than a negative downvote right?
"Flagging is essentially nothing more than a negative downvote right?"
Correct.
Also, thumbs up for the Doom Guy. Finally got around to playing Doom 2016.
I think anyone can use it but those with the most steem power benefit it from it as i heard. Well, I don't know much about it but I think it affect the reputation of the person and the payout will be denied.
It's just a reverse upvote. It takes away rewards and reputation instead of adding them.
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Oh boy I've Never gotten in between of any arguing on steemit and I never will I also ignore it like it didn't happen, you are so right if you make an enemy they will try to ruin you I've seen that on here but I'm just a tree hugging loving hippie lol stay out of trouble! Lol
I fully endorse this strategy, but if you are successful, remember that eventually this problem will come to you, rather than vice versa.
I know exactly what you mean. I try to 'keep it real' and sometimes have controversial views but I am also very aware of how detrimental it can be to be too outspoken on here. Making friends can really boost you up, but making enemies can bring you down fast.
I'm not familiar enough with the community and inner ongoings in Steemit. I do catch some of it from the sidelines, but don't really do my best to follow it indepth. I do think it's a problem though. Not so much right now (even though it's sad that it happens), as these are incidental occurings, but if STEEM is to grow this behaviour is going to be inevitably copied by larger whales (institutions, corporations) to do exactly the same thing to content which they do not like.
Wether it's a case of 'That's how STEEM is supposed to work' or not is up for debate, but from my own perspective it's not a sustainable situation for the long term.
Honestly I am a bit disappointed in the fact that it's so hard to figure out what's going on with STEEM development. I'm not sure Ned is paying attention to these issues, there is little communication. SMT's are great, but let's fix the core concept too where it's necessary.
" it's not a sustainable situation for the long term."
This is exactly my concern.
Things have escalated gravely in the last month, to doxxing and sending the FBI to each other's house, law suits, etc. It's gross around here and I'm mentally checked out.
Thanks for commenting despite the late replies.
If more and more minnows keep getting caught in the middle and losing rewards over quarrels they have nothing to do with, what will happen?
I can't say I know for sure, but I can say that nothing left to lose is an emboldening place to stand.
"what will happen?"
Well, I can tell you what happened for me. Between the flagging attacks and rampant abuse from all the communist reward-pool-apparatchiks, I simply quit posting any quality articles. I'm too good for this shit.
I assume competent minnows will eventually come to their own similar conclusions.
it is a steem steemit creacter.i like this post
This is one of the poorer-formed throwaway comments I've had to admonish today.
Yeah there is definitely something to this for sure. Its one of the reasons I find the content on steemit to be so boring. Not always, but fairly often. People are more willing to post pictures of birds, beaches and sunsets than they are to comment about the rising of the proletariat or fascism or something along those lines. lol
I have been VERY critical of Bitcoin lately and have experienced some drama but not quite as much as other places. Frankly I would be fucked if people started flagging my content because I am pretty dependent on my income from here right now.
The problem is, if your content is too watered down then nobody is going to really care about what you say anyway right? We are forced to balance on this razor edge whether we want to admit it or not...
" Its one of the reasons I find the content on steemit to be so boring. "
It's like every post is written by a politician. Most of it is lacking any real "edge", such that even boorish losers like Bernie can get "fans" for blurting out blunt nonsense.
"I have been VERY critical of Bitcoin lately and have experienced some drama but not quite as much as other places."
If you point out BTC's huge flaws, Steemit's SJW-abusers like Transisto will find you, and opinion flag you, in between upvoting themselves thousands.
While I understand the worry about this trend in behavior, I don't think it's all bad. Given the polarized state of the world and everyone thinking they are right, I think some people need to walk on eggshells for a while to learn to engage in productive conversation rather than always reverting to shouting matches and belittling those they disagree with. If you believe in a cause enough, it wouldn't stop you. I still voice my opinion freely and my opinions aren't exactly popular. I just try and voice it soft enough where it doesn't enrage anyone.
Voicing opinions while also being sensative to others should be norm if we want to make any kind of progress and actually convince anyone of the value of our opinions. People are not usually convinced by others arguments anyway, they are convinced by their own experiences. So I see as much good coming from this as harm.
But yeah it can be a little fluffy sometimes. I admit I fluff my answers when dealing with certain people that I worry can't see things my way, but I'm not really here for them anyway, I'm here for people who want to understand my point of view, not those who want to shut it down, so it doesn't bother me much. It might if I felt all my comments are fluff but that's not the case.
I think It's much better than a regulatory force trying to take down unopular opinions, or everyone at each others throat.
"I think It's much better than a regulatory force trying to take down unopular opinions, or everyone at each others throat."
Agreed on the former, although I'm afraid we are seeing the latter play out now on the Trending page, with increasing ferocity.
I had to Google to discover this interesting gif reference...
It's "Glow"!
Oh yeah!
Comment withheld ;)
Haha...good one!
Interesting point, and something I've thought about a bit. I think the majority of people who would take the time to write a comment in disagreement think to themselves, why would I post a comment on this post when I could go find someone I agree with that would more likely upvote me, and definitely wouldn't become an enemy. But without opposing views its hard to have a good conversation, so I think people need to have the courage to still speak their mind, as long as it's done in a respectful manner. It's the same with downvotes, there is no reward and puts you at risk of making enemies or people downvoting your content because "you did it first."
PS. Are you on a poker team?
"why would I post a comment on this post when I could go find someone I agree with that would more likely upvote me, and definitely wouldn't become an enemy."
Bingo, hence my title - it's not game theoretically correct to be real on Steemit.
"PS. Are you on a poker team?"
Way late on this one, but yes, thank you - I've had a team since season 1.
I find I only censor my more insulting impulses and tend to focus my attacks on their arguments rather than whoever I'm disagreeing with and so far this has been win/win for me.
Yeah, that was working well for me until I hit about the 60s in reputation level. Then the "jealous haters" start to opinion flag you.
Merry Christmas!!!
Well, I guess you successfully hit the one day a year where I'll let this slide as "not spam."
Well, I guess thats very gracious of you 😐.
I find that the comments on Steemit are meant to be civilized and add real value to the discussion and the community. Whether I agree or disagree with a post I find myself asking the question “is this reply valuable enough to leave as a comment?”.
I find that the other social media platforms are plagued by insulting trolls. I, for one,don’t mind a few somewhat sycophantic comments with a veneer of meaningful engagement so long as it’s mixed with the truly valuable and sincere comments. It’s much better than me going on YouTube and being called a “nigg@r” by a 14 year old for no reason. Let’s not forget how extremely rude and useless people can be on the internet. It may be “keepin it real” to be contrarian and worse insulting (which people equate with being critical) but kudos to Steemit for incentivizing people to choose valuable cordial commentary.
"Whether I agree or disagree with a post I find myself asking the question “is this reply valuable enough to leave as a comment?”."
If only the 65% of the platform that are pure spammers applied this rule...
"It’s much better than me going on YouTube and being called a “nigg@r” by a 14 year old for no reason"
True, but I have always avoided all other social media for precisely these reasons. I am forced to admit that Steemit appears unlikely to change this tendency.
"but kudos to Steemit for incentivizing people to choose valuable cordial commentary."
It's definitely an improvement to anonymous Twitter trolls.
But that is the beauty of the digital world. Isn't it?
A bunch of digital animals wearing masks.
But at the end of the day, will anyone be listening to those wearing the masks? Sure the sheep will follow, but the sheep don't listen because they can't hear.
But for those who keep it real, in the long run there will be one or two people that listen. And slowly, over time, these underground ideas begin to permeate into the mainstream.
And for those that kept it real. People that we'll never know. While others took to play with the sheep. They actually got stuff done when nobody was looking.
Sure, it will be someone else's name in the history books, just grasping floating ideas from the abyss and making them their own.
Sure it pays well to feed the sheep.
But the real people that change the world blow the bubbles down below.
"Sure the sheep will follow,"
Problem is, this is the majority of the people.
"And slowly, over time, these underground ideas begin to permeate into the mainstream."
Unless authors like me just quit because, hey, fuck it.
"But the real people that change the world blow the bubbles down below."
Adlib joke about underwater gaseous anomalies.
I avoid saying nice things just to say them in my comments here and everywhere. I'm blunt. You can get your niceness elsewhere.
I used to be The Fat Lady in Accounting and I still am even though I am thin now and don't do people's numbers now. Being obese since I was four years old means people weren't nice to me, so I never developed that skill back at them. Plus I went to 16 schools before graduating HS and have kept on moving since. I'm always the new kid, and I'm probably not going to see you again.
So, basically I have no time for your nonsense; time is valuable; let's get to the point.
And I'm deciding to stay out of the big kids fighting here. I have no power except to help those around me succeed in this nuthouse and so that's a better place for my efforts.
"And I'm deciding to stay out of the big kids fighting here."
You and me both. Even more so this week, now that I see it has escalated into sending the FBI to each other's houses and specific threats of violence.
How much worse can it get before something changes?
I suppose in any social group there is the conformity or group think that occurs. I am usually pleasant on steemit and use humor usually in a positive way. There has been a certain someone posting pictures and claiming huge rewards, but for me the pictures are pretty lame and I poked a bit of fun, but yeah in general I'm not too contrary.
"in general I'm not too contrary."
Probably a game-theoretically correct adjustment to have made, but none the less stifling.
As for me, the tactics of ignoring are ideally suited for this. Happy Christmas holidays. Good luck to you and good.
This is a very good point. It's often best to ignore the drama and personal attacks.
If only humans were wired to make that a more natural reaction for us.
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This sounds like just the kind of problem that needs a capitalistic solution.
To wit:
Since I'm powering down already and couldn't care less about my reputation score, I'd be willing to ghost write critically needed posts for a direct "Tip" into my wallet.
Of course I'll dumb them down.
Steemit isn't the kind of platform where I fit in.
There is far too much "networking" required to get any remuneration for creating content. And unless you want to create bots or run contests, your only real option is to buy assloads of SP which will instantly make your shitposts or cryptocurrency updates a work of art.
Dan must have never heard of the concept of sweat equity because, IMHO it is virtually impossible to start from the SP you're vested when you create an account and build into something without any outside purchases of SP.
Unless you've been lured here by the promise of easy money and have brought your 100,000 followers from FaceChat or Twaddle.
I'll have to work on a name, perhaps Rent-an-A-Hole or nom de plume-hole?
"Steemit isn't the kind of platform where I fit in."
This is how I previously felt about all social media, and I can't say that I'm yet disabused of this notion.
"virtually impossible to start from the SP you're vested when you create an account and build into something without any outside purchases of SP."
Tough to fix this in a DPOS framework...
"Rent-an-A-Hole or nom de plume-hole?"
Sounds like A Modest Proposal...
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Seems like you're doing alright all things considered.
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