STEEM to $10 USD? This is the wrong question to ask or even think about.

in #steem7 years ago

When you consider where to spend your money, you have to evaluate opportunity cost. You only have so much money to spend. The more money you spend on Option A, the less money you have left to spend on Option B.

Suppose I have $10,000 available.   Should I put this money into a real estate ETF for good dividends?  Buy precious metals in anticipation of USD collapse?  Follow Ben Stein's advice and just buy the Spiders (SPY) ? 

Or should I put my $10,000 into cryptos? 

This post isn't providing financial advice, so I won't attempt to answer these questions for your personal scenario.  The answer is complex. And different for every person. 

What is your risk tolerance? How does this $10,000 fit into your overall financial plan? Is the $10,000 play money you can afford to lose completely? Or does it represent your total life savings? How old are you? How close are you to retiring or wanting to retire? What is your family situation and how many people are dependent on you?  Etc, etc.

For sake of argument, let's assume you decided to put the $10,000 into cryptos, since you can afford to lose 100% of your gambling stake.  Stated differently, the $10,000 should be money you would have otherwise been happy using to buy lottery tickets.

Let's assume you had to make a crypto purchase decision back around Jul 19th.  And you had to choose which coin(s) to buy with your $10,000?  

You're probably guessing, correctly, that this question has some relevance to my personal situation.  I didn't invent this scenario out of thin air. Been there. Lived it. More or less.

Since this is a steemit post, let's focus the question on just two coins. 

STEEM versus BTC.

Would it have been better to put $10,000 into STEEM on July 19th?   

Or would it have been better to put $10,000 into BTC on July 19th?

The math is simple.  I'll do it for you in two lines below.

$10,000 in STEEM on July 19th, at $1.22 price point, would have purchased about 8,197 STEEM.  Cashing out today at a STEEM price of $1.11 would net approx $9,098. Resulting in a loss of more than 9%. Resulting in a loss of more than $900.

$10,000 in BTC on July 19th, at $2,372 price point would have purchased about 4.22 BTC. Cashing out today at a BTC price of $3,600 would net approx $15,177. Resulting in a gain of more than 50%. Resulting in a gain of more than $5,000.



I decided to do this analysis now, since BTC price is going through a significant retrenchment.  From a high of almost $5,000 it has recently fallen sharply into the $3,600 range, which is a drop of almost 1/3.

No one can claim that the analysis is fatally flawed because I picked a point when the BTC price was peaking, which might bias the result in favor of BTC.

Exactly the opposite. I picked a point when BTC price has just dropped by almost 1/3.   

The conclusions are stark. And incontrovertible.

As an investment vehicle, STEEM has sucked over the last two months.  

BTC appears to be far and away the better investment. Definitely the better investment over this particular analysis period,

Since May'17, when STEEM started at $1 USD, it jumped up to approx $2 USD, and has since then slowly sunk back down to approximately $1 USD.  Round trip to nowhere. The green line above meanders more or less sideways, but slowly trending down by about 9% over the analysis period.

You wouldn't have lost a lot of USD fiat money investing in STEEM.  But you would have lost some. 

In contrast, BTC price has been relatively more solid than STEEM.  Both have significant volatility, but on average BTC price is trending up. The STEEM trend is solidly sideways. At best. A fair  assessment would report that STEEM is gradually losing value against BTC on a daily and weekly basis. 

Look at the yellow line in the chart. The yellow line, relative STEEM value versus BTC is much more important than the USD fiat price of STEEM, in my opinion.

Over the most recent two month period, the relative price of STEEM versus BTC has been cut in half.

You can ask and ponder the question of whether STEEM may eventually get to $10. It might. It might not. I don't know. Truth is no one does, despite any protestations to the contrary.

But to close out by linking back to the title, asking whether STEEM gets to $10 is the wrong question.

The question you should be asking is, what will the price of BTC be when STEEM price increases by 9X and hits $10?

Will BTC price be higher or lower than $33,000, when STEEM gets to $10?

Because if you are planning on making money, or getting rich, or even retiring on your "winnings" when STEEM hits $10, you'll potentially feel a touch foolish if BTC is at $100,000 per coin at that time.  You'll have left an additional 300% gain on the table, by placing your bets on STEEM instead of picking the winner BTC.

Alternately, if BTC is only $10,000 when STEEM gets to $10, you'll look like a genius since you will have made an additional 300% by betting on STEEM vs BTC.

When STEEM gets to $10, what do you predict the price of BTC will be? $10K? $33K? $100K?  other?

If I'm still around when STEEM hits $10, I'll send one STEEM to the person who most accurately predicts in their reply below, the BTC price at the fateful moment when we see STEEM trading at $10.

Comments welcome.

STEEM On!!

DaveB

image from coinmarketcap.com

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What if you bought $1000 worth of Steem or BTC on March 19th? Steem has been a much better investment so far in 2017 than BTC. Too bad I first heard about Steem at $2.5:) Answer: Steem $10, BTC $10000.
But, honestly, I do not know. I am contemplating writing a post about this: The X value an entity creates, is independent from the Y% of X it captures. I do think Steem creates a lot of value, at lest for me personally. I have no doubt that blockchain technology will revolutionise the world, but it is difficult to say how much a given token will appreciate.

You are very bullish no STEEM. 9X increase in STEEM in same time that BTC only gets to $6K.

Will need some big catalyst to see that type of STEEM price increase

Just some food for thought.
Firstly, if you are not bullish on Steem, why do you buy it?
Secondly, I am actually not that bullish on Steem, but being on this site has given me so much more than money can buy. I have managed to utilise my creative sides and I have also learned a lot. That's things that money can not buy! But truth be told, I am also somewhat sceptical of Steem. BTC is per definition valuable, whereas Steem seem to be kind of free money, especially for people in the third world, which we compete against. It is not profitable enough to own SteemPower imho:) Thanks for your post davebrewer. Steem on!

Why buy it? It was an experiment. Learned a lot. Which is the definition of a successful experiment.

What a thought provoking post. What to do with ones money? People often look at the profit/loss without realizing that one can lose even when profiting. Opportunity cost is something that is rarely discussed. Of course, we all know things are much easier in hindsight.

I guess the question is where can one find the better growth rate. Obviously, over the time frame you discussed, BTC had it Steem did not.

Now for my guess....since you are looking for a 9 fold increase in Steem to get to $10...I am going to say that BTC, with so much money set to enter the crypto world, will have a 15 times increase....

BTC $55,500.

A little more than Dimon's rise before the fraud crashes.

Full upvote for giving the answer that matches my opinion, LOL

Not allowed to grade papers this way if you are an elementary school teacher.

But this isn't elementary school, so I get to grade however I want.

There is some merit to your point, but I don't completely agree. STEEM does have built in inflation. At around 9% per year. So supply is increasing. But in a predictable way, that everyone knows in advance. After all, the rewards pool has to come from somewhere.

But to compare it against USD fiat is slandering STEEM. The printing presses for USD are turned on and off in an arbitrary way, and the amount of printing of USD is criminally large. More than double over last 10 years.

Full upvote back at you although yours is bigger than mine.

You made me laugh with the I get to grade however I want.....

It is your post on a non-moderated, decentralized platform...damn right you can grade how you want.

Although I will say the union wont be too happy with you....

You guys and gals have to remember, Steem is an infinite supply currency, and it is very difficult for it to increase in value, and even harder for it to maintain an increased value.

Think of Steem as you would a dollar, it actually decreases in value over time, because so much of it is printed in a continuous fashion, and the same could be said with Steem.

The only reason why Ethereum has increased to an unrealistic value, as an infinite token supply, is due mostly to hype, and the fact that you could buy into initial coin offerings with it. So, do keep that in mind the next time you get frustrated that the price of Steem always seems pegged to the dollar.

There is some merit to your point, but I don't completely agree. STEEM does have built in inflation. At around 9% per year. So supply is increasing. But in a predictable way, that everyone knows in advance. After all, the rewards pool has to come from somewhere.

But to compare it against USD fiat is slandering STEEM. The printing presses for USD are turned on and off in an arbitrary way, and the amount of printing of USD is criminally large. More than double over last 10 years.

Hmm, I suppose I was referring to Steem's performance over the last six months, not it's actual capabilities. Over the last six months, it sort of kinda just averaged back out to around a little over a dollar, hence the opinion.

I really do hope it gets better, because I too believe in it, but so many people are always selling it, and with such a large supply, that it is difficult for it to keep any value in my opinion.

BTC: $43,258

I totally agree with you @davebrewer. I especially thank you for being frank about Steem here on Steem itself. Unfortunately, many people chose to ignore that we have a problem here.

I would like to add some comments:

1 - After investing for some time in cryptos I realized that the $ gain is not the right metric of success here (except for BTC itself). What is important is how much have earned in terms of BTC? Oddly, most cryptos have not gained in terms of btc.

2 - Steem is not an exception. However Steem is not doing well in terms of $ value neither! I think that the main reason for that is that the Steemit, Inc. is not doing its job well enogh. I have explained my concerns in these two articles:

3- I was planning to power down and sell my steem, but the dev team promised they are rolling out some major updates and marketing plans soon. So, I decided to wait for some time and see.

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I am going to say 70,000 because I was the 70TH upvote.

Big upvote for a choice way above $33K.

You got my attention. I'd struggle to even call this an educated guess but...STEEM=$10 & BTC=$60,000. Thank you for not asking for rationale behind this number :)

Directionally accurate. Good answer.

Glad you don't think it's outrageous lol. I got in the game late and I'm glad I got some more coin this week.

you should also analyse in march to may :) while price was like 17 cents so it was like x5 , and bitcoin like +70%, so all depends what dates we choose :)
but bitcoin for sure is strong

Sure. Picking different analysis period will give different results. But my question is looking forward, not back. STEEM is $1.12 today. BTC is $3,600 today.

Which coin will be first to record a 9X increase, relative to today's price?

STEEM On!
DaveB

i think steem have more chance to make x9 because they got a lot less market cap , plus we increasing in traffic every month, and problem of bitcoin they have too big fee and if it increase again then fee will be more than and more.

I can agree with that based upon the points you made.

However, with so much money entering the arena from the institutions, wouldnt bitcoin get the largest share since it is so well known? Do you think that an investment adviser will say you have to diversify, pick up some steem to balance your portfolio?

bitcoin is very well known, but his marketcap is huge so it will be harder to make double up each time than steem with small market cap. Also to diversify its good to buy not only steem but other crypto that have real activity not just in paper .

LTC has a lot of real use cases, for actually buying stuff. So that should be a positive for LTC.

Market cap for BTC is actually still small, if you compare against total supply gold, or total supply USD, or total supply Euro, etc.

BTC is going to open up for more mainstreet investment in the next year, and then all the mutual funds are going to come pouring in with lots of investment dollars to park.

An investment fund manager that doesn't have money in BTC will be fired if the fund is underperforming. Per TM4450 point, no investment fund managers will be fired for not holding STEEM

I'll give it a shot. I think Bitcoin will be at $26,500.

You are betting that STEEM outperforms BTC. I am not so convinced

Me either, but I think that Steem hasn't had a large surge yet and that Bitcoin has had several. Bitcoin is going places, but I don't know that it will do so exponentially. Steem still hasn't reached a high level of saturation yet. When that happens, it is anybody's guess where it ends up.

I will say I'm not staking much of my own money on my prediction ;) I'm very curious to see the results though.

Interesting post. I used the same rationale when trading the dips. For example when BTC hit a low of $3000 Friday morning, instead of buying BTC @ $3000, I bought NEO at $15. My belief is that NEO will bounce back to $30 (price point it has crossed before (in fact NEO's high was $50) which is 100% gain before BTC can get to $6000 (which would be a new all time high). I'm only doing this for short term trading. For long term hold, I see your point.

Entering your contest:
BTC will be at $30,000 when Steem hits $10.

Upvote for providing a price estimate. Your conclusion is STEEM is a better investment than BTC, in terms of the next 9X price increase

There's also another factor that has affected the price of Steem tokens negatively over the past few months: the inexplicable halts on Poloniex. Steem deposits and withdrawals have been halted on Poloniex for more than a month now!

I think Polnx has had lots of issues with many coins

I think it's been at LEAST like 2 month and it's totally lame lol 💩

Yeah, I lost count already. There are a lot of big, deep-pocketed celebrity investors on Poloniex, and Steem being disabled has a major impact on the valuation of the token. If Poloniex re-enables Steem, watch out for a big rally as the whales start to accumulate tokens at depressed prices.

I think thats why steemit is more for content creators, not for investors... i for myself are just happy with the money earned here. Of course it helps a little if you invest, but not for the reason of price value speculation. Lets hope for 10 dollars or more with steem you made with your content, not your financial investment. Steem on!

I believe you are on the right track. Steemit will turn into (or already is) a great blogging platform. That just happens to be based on STEEM and you have some side effects from that that are generally positive for the bloggers, even if not so amazing from an invstment perspective

Another winner Dave, love the personal touch.
I think youre spot on comparing steem to BTC instead of USD.

To answer your question though, the answer is NEVER. As in Steem will never make it to $10.

Ouch, i know. I showed up late and threw cold water all over everything.

You said it yourself:

  • Steemit has a built in 9% inflation.
  • The USD I'll wager averages 5% over long periods of time.
  • BTC meanwhile is deflationary.

It seems to me, that they are moving in opposite directions.

Also after reading this, you've convinced me to periodically sell my Steem fo BTC...

Hmm, it appears I've got about a dollar so far... too soon?

In my opinion BTC will be near USD 50,000

Feels about right. BTC should go up faster than STEEM is my conviction

What a great post to go to sleep! ;-)
Right, BTC is the gold of cryptos and so we should hold to it... In my own experience 40% of my holdings should be kept as BTC (so hard with all those ICO's)
So, what would I do with the 60%? Stay close to the 20 top volume trade crypto.
Steem is doom to be great: the world will embrace it and Big Companies will follow increasing the overall price.
Similar things I could say of ETH, ripple, etc...
Price of BTC when Steem reach 10$??? 45785$

Higher than $33K feels right to me

Hard to predict!
If steem price stays steady @$10, BTC could jump easily @ $10k.
At that stage it will be amazing for a steemian to position himself to reap the reward.
What an intrinsic timeline !

Nice logic and insight. I buy steem because i believe in its potential. And i wil grow. Maybe not as much as the next altcoin in the short run, but in the long run it wil be way more stable.

I think you are right in the long-run. STEEM will be fairly stable. It will rise very very slowly in relation to USD fiat, pulled up a little bit by the big boys like BTC and LTC. Investing in STEEM will be like getting interest on yur savings account in the "old days". 6% in a good year, 5% in a bad year.

Indeed, but a growth none the less

So many words while I could also just look at the graph

I gave you two options. 1000 words. Or one picture. Your choice.

BTC = $34,450
Steem will only spend a short time at $10....>

Pretty safe kinda prediction. You are saying STEEM and BTC are locked hand in hand for price increase. There is nothing about STEEM that would cause price to rise faster than BTC.

it was going great in the pricing but suddenly fell down too much tried to pick up the pace but couldn't whereas the btc hold onto the pace and went to the moon so yeah it all about timing even if those 105$ you would have spent a week ago they would have profited you for example at a rate of $1.50 per steem

LTC price will recover

I have hope , because it seems to climb at a good rate and drop slowely which is good . It doesn't just climb high all of a sudden leading to a drop. I've been quite impressed with Steem the past month and I feel like it has potential to hit $10 maybe in a year ?

9X price increase on one year will be big. I don't believe BTC will do a 9X increase in the next year

To be hounest, buying BTC just doesnt feel comfortable to me. Steem on the other hand just feels right to me (even if I miss out big gains)!

Dont buy BTC if you can't sleep at night after the purchase

You can't compare BTC and steem. Btc is money and it's not practical for an average person. Steem is also money, but masses will accept it through social media aspect. When they'll realize its potential and usefulness it will become rear and expensive. And also posting and curating rewards are on top of price rise.

I disagree. I have to compare STEEM and BTC. Because on Jul 19th I had to choose to move $10K into one or the other.

So the choice and comparison is absolutely real. I was there. I lived it.

Your analysis that STEEM is money but BTC is not is very curious. There is nothing to spend STEEM on otherthan to convert into money such as fiat or BTC.

At this time, STEEM is a lot less like money than BTC is.

That's why steem have much bigger potential. Btc has nothing new to show to people. Steem is not started it's mission yet.

I see you are "all in", so your money is where your mouth is. Your timing was great. $140K input in Mar and April. Then you could cash out enough in May and June to payoff a substantial portion of your starting stake based on STEEM going to $2

So you're almost playing with house money at this point. VERY NICE.

Almost a can't lose situation.

Given your awesome track record of timing, perhaps I should listen harder?

I'm still skeptical of price going to $10 in near future.

But if it does, you'll cash out your $1M and be able to afford life time tickets to the Oilers.

Super sweet !!!

But if you cashed out a big portion of your stake at $2, how will you have patience to hold until $10??

You thinking too much. Buy and hodl. Set your target price at $100 so you don't get impatient. That's it. $10 will come. Sure like death. Time flies and before you'll know the year is over. Steem will spread like a plague. Mark my words.

I have to agree with @oldtimer... You just are being impatient and making a no sense judge and comparison for your personal experience on jul 19... The fact that someone make profit from investing BTC is not an argument, there are many many MANY others that have made investment when BTC was 5k and now they are on big loose, while keeping their money on STEEM would have them avoided losing that money...
The thing is, if blockchain and BTC is revolutionary, steem and steemit is revolution within the revolution, this is a game changer and will moon soon or later, we are still highly undervalued...
But i still would not compare it to BTC, as i thing BTC will raise much more too, cant bet about the timing though...

Spot on. Thanks for your time.

You didnt HAD to choose, you only choose because you wanted to... you could have chosen between eth and riple etc... this is only your choice, and not a valid mandatory decision for everyone... this argument makes no weight...

Each scenario can play out but I believe Steem will head there, it's just a matter of time as long as users continue to increase. If I had to guess.. BTC 20k when Steem is $10

BTC up by 6X in same time as STEEM is up by 9X.

Not sure I understand the market dynamics that could trigger a move in STEEM that is 50% more than the move in BTC.

Pure speculation by a giant whale I suppose could be one scenario that would lead to your result

Why could it not? Does it follow BTC solely? I just see the value in Steemit as it increases it's users and won't matter if BTC moves up with it, just my thought though, I am no expert by any means.

So far, the $100 that I put into Steem is money I made when my counterparty tokens increased by 75% in 6 weeks. So I'm playing with somebody else's money. That's the only way I would risk that. :)

You're cautious on the price of STEEM. Seems reasonable

You get STEEMs for this article, how many Bitcoins did you get from this article? Steem is a vehicle that encourages creativity while Bitcoin is a revolutionary idea that lead to the idea of STEEM. Any comparison between the two as you have stated may be unfair. Afterall this is still a STEEM is still a beta that has helped a lot of people make money, Bitcoin ultimately makes profit for big miners and large buyers in the long run.

Some say BTC is digital GOLD. And that is value in and of itself if enough people believe it and place value on it.

In practice, there is no place to spend your STEEMs you earn on steemit, other than to cash out to some other currency that has value to trade or use for purchases.

So I'm not sure I buy your argument as valid rational for STEEM to be more valuable than BTC.

Exactly my point, steem is not the same as Bitcoin. On a lighter note you cannot use gold to make any purchases unless you're a government.

You need steem to have visibility on this site and make money... the more steem you have, the more you earn, it is the only coin out there that do this, social media have the potential to reach more people than BTC... The only reason BTC is the most expensive coin (and profitable, by now) is because its the first, but technically it is the worst crypto-currency out there (slow transactions, high fees), once crypto gets enough popularity things will change...
Soon or later we will be able to buy on many online stores with steem and many other altcoins, just like you can buy anything with BTC on purse.io...

I personally feel it is easier for "50 to become 100" than "500 to become 1000" .I would predict Bitcoin around $25K when steem sells at $10 .

You realize of course that the logic makes no sense, when cryptos are priced to 8 decimal places.

And even ignoring the 8 decimal places, your logic would suggest that one of the worst possible investments is Berkshire Hathaway, due to its price being over $100K.

You need to call Warren Buffett and explain to him that he doesn't know what he is doing as an investment manager.

Please let me know what Warren tells you when you are discussing your analysis.

Great post ! My bet is bitcoin at 25K and steem will be enough to press a couple of my nice shirts.

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Dang right it was under valued. LOL

you have a big point made there :)

This is certainly a topic I've been looking into a bit more diligently recently, but there's so much information to take in. I'm pretty sick right now but saved your article to re-read it once I'm feeling better. Thank you @davebrewer

I hope the price will come today for that.

I will say that it will be at 17,500 when steem hits 10, or if haha

"Steem is a fraud. It will go to zero although it is possible that it hit $10 before crashing." Jamie Dimon

Good Post. Thanks for sharing this post.

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Very interesting @davebrewer ...Bless

Great post there. Cryptos are here to stay.. But it will take a while before most people will get to know. Check out my new post @jakemore. Thanks...follow back

No on the follow. Begging isnt becoming,try to avoid, you'll do better in the long run.

steem is still highly undervalued for many reasons... Its hard to tell when it will moon, but it will, and it will be much more than 10$, once steemit gets really mainstream, there is no limit...

OK. Hope it works out for y'all

You are completely right!

I now sell the earned Stems and buy Bitcoin. Then btс will grow twice, and I can buy twice as much of the same Steem, if I want. And it will definitely be earlier than Stem will reach 10 dollars :)

@davebrewer,
One of the greatest price analysis I have ever seen! I did this type of analysis before invested on XRP :D And I was lucky it made me a millionaire :D And still keeping a huge bulk of it! Yeah pay less, then we will loose less. That's what I believe! STEEM is a good option for it and keeping SP means you are having stake of the steem, so additional revenue is there also!
I think STEEM price is under valued so far. So, in near future it will rise up to $3 and then step by step it will reach $10. According to your maths then you might be a millionaire :D Yeah it will happen! Definitely it will happen! What we should do is not to be panic and HODL!

Cheers~

$10 that seems nearly impossible to me in a short period of time there need to be more development around it

To be honest no one knows where the price of BTC will be once and if Steem reaches $10 but the significent improvement on BTC says so like the way you are seeing it might cross over 10k who knows , only time will tell ,let us hope for the best and choose wisely :)

straight coming to your question mate i guess if steem goes upto that much high then bitcoin will be up in the range of 20k$ to 33k$

steem had fallen badly in between during the phase shift how it will perform now will determine and i wish that steem trade at 10$ soon

A brilliant set up of post this really cleared all the dreamy bubbles i think its more practical now to imagine where things stand off now.

Great post Sir . Thanks for share it

ok will give it a go, I predict that BTC will be at $27,000 when Steem hits $10

Hello, You have good writing style. :)

How are you? I am new here at Steemit. Let's be friend in steemit. I hope to learn from you....

Lets follow each other and have fun.

This is my 1st Post: https://steemit.com/blockchain/@pkswe9/today-s-crypto-currency-is-lagging-holistic-approach-to-information-security

Best Regards.

Quit it.

Thanks for the assistance. I felt the lips on my butt, but didn't fall for it, LOL