As an (amateur) game designer, I can tell you that the whole Steem system sucks from the perspective of game mechanics.
It has to be redesigned from bottom up.
First, flags have to go. No flags. Or if they remain they have to be completely without any material effect. Otherwise we have a dystopian future where someone can quite literally BUY censorship powers. I don't like your review of my product, I'll just flag you to invisibility. People are sick of censorship, that's why they're seeking new social platforms... and here you give tools for ANYONE with deep enough pockets to silence anyone they wish.
Second. Trending and hot pages have to be SEVERELY redesigned. For example, there should be a category for posts which have a lot of votes of small SBD value. Popular vote, democratic vote if you will. One account, one vote.
And this is just the beginning. Of course the system is designed to be cutthroat capitalism, but there are reasons why cutthroat capitalism never worked for the majority of the population, especially over time. It is all fine and dandy in the beginning, when the playing ground is fresh, but it very quickly devolves into a system of eternal, untouchable monopolies, cronyism and all-powerful robber barons, a game where newcomers have no future. In other words, from a game designer perspective - this is fantastic if you're making a game with a definite end. On the other hand, this positive feedback loop is terrible for a game which is supposed to last indefinitely. Really, I have a hunch people who designed this concept never played a MMORPG in their life...
have you ever heard of the term capital accumulation?
With a system based on capital accumulation you must push for the highest rate of profit or eventually be pushed back to the levels of working class. I must stay ahead of this if I ever wish to make change in society, this is just one of the reasons capitalism is destructive. The problem is not that socialism does not work, its that capitalism must destroy everything else to survive.
Yeah, I can understand why you upvoted yourself. What I don't understand is why you did not upvote the post you are commenting on. Surely he "must push for the highest rate of profit or eventually be pushed back to the levels of working class" as well. Why didn't you consider that and upvote his post? Aren't socialist suppose to be empathetic? Isn't that suppose to be the reason why you are a socialist? I didn't even agree with it and I upvoted (as a capitalist) just because I appreciate genuine thought.
I have read socialist books. It's hard to make it all way through most of them. They aren't that good. I do not like Stirner. I can't take someone serious while they are using the word spook.
The Conquest of Bread did a decent job of not being complete shit, though.
"Why didn't you consider that and upvote his post? Aren't socialist suppose to be empathetic?"
wow you are dense lmao.
its because revolution is the only way to save the tens of millions who die of poverty every year. All money that does not go to leads to more death. The most empathetic thing to do is not upvote the post of somebody not fighting for revolution
I stopped following you because of this comment. I'm sorry but you are obnoxious. I simply can't stand rich champagne-socialist hypocrites pretending to weep about the poor. You are sitting on a fortune, which could help hundreds of families. What do you do instead? Sit here on a capitalist social network site and bemoan how you are better than everyone else.
Who said that politicians are good people? ... Difficult very difficult for a good person to succeed in politics .... Why? because to succeed in politics the person must be:
1- Knowing how to lie White Lies.
2- Perverse. Do good actions to the collective today to achieve a personal or individual goal
No feelings. If you have to do moral and ethical harm to someone in order to reach power ... Well, it's done.
Without values. Decisions must be made that go against human and religious values.
I can develop the topic here, but the above mentioned can you reader friend consider it necessary for a person to succeed in politics today ... The world and the way of doing politics is changing, but they are changing for the worse ... Today day a porn actress is considered a celebrity, instead a singer who dresses sexy and sensual dance is considered a vulgar without values ???
It is more profitable to give minutes and news space to scandals of porn actresses than to actresses who do excellent role in independent films ..... Not counting the news of human and natural catastrophes ....
This guy is a supreme asshole who argues with intellectual dishonesty at the forefront of his strategy. He also longs to be ruled by Stalin, almost as if he has a fetish for degradation.
Lolz @ you capitalist oppressors, both of yous!
I see all them dollars flyin around my post and me getting only cents!
I cry for justice! Revolution! :D
"Stand up you victims of oppression..."
Nah, I'm dead serious man. This injustice simply cannot stand!
(gief upvotes lol, nudge nudge)
And besides I got a warm spot in my heart for the song. We sang it at school almost every day. I kinda have some first hand experience with these themes...
What, a joke? You actually downvoted the post because you a) don't get the joke and b) don't agree with it politically? And this carries real material damage to me?
You feel that you are justified in doing physical, material damage to my wallet just because you do not agree with me, because you "think" that I am doing "a very bad thing"? I don't recall internationalle being illegal, and I don't recall that making jokes is illegal. It is your opinion, and you exercise your power to materially hurt me because I have a different taste in humor?
Now imagine a person with opinions that you feel the worst possible - and that person buys a few hundred thousand dollars worth of steem and goes after you and your posts. Just because he can, he doesn't like your sense of humor, your political opinions or just doesn't like you personally. Just imagine that.
You just perfectly illustrated what is wrong with the downvotes system as it is now.
And now for something personal: I LIVED through a goddamn communist dictatorship and I know what goddamn censorship and getting bullied for your opinions really is. My great-grandfather died in a communist "reeducation" camp for making "wrong jokes" and writing "wrong poems". And you DARE to downvote and therefore materially assault me for posting a "wrongthink" tongue-in-cheek joke about communism??!
Can you even perceive in that pea-brain of yours how "ironic" that is?!
Don't argue with this asshole. He is a troll/agent provocateur designed to wear you out and waste your time. Don't give him anything to play against. Just totally ignore him. Mute him.
I have no problem whatsoever with negative opinions. The problem appears when you give everyone a gun and completely free license to use it in order to enforce their opinions.
Downvotes and flags should stay imo.. but they have to be defanged, deweaponized. Otherwise you achieve completely opposite effect from free exchange of opinions. Would you be as vocal with YOUR opinions if you knew that everyone knows where you live and if they chose to they can blow your brains out, with no liability whatsoever?
That's a great system for one thing only - total self censorship. Everyone posts only what is "safe" to everyone. In other words, inspirational quotes and pictures of cats. A social network which fosters this kind of community through its mechanics will not survive the upcoming realignment of the market.
Personally, I prefer systems which do not add up upvotes and downvotes but keep them separate. This creates a nice derived indicator of how "controversial" (in other words, interesting) a post is. In Steemit downvotes could be recorded, maybe even their steem value, but not deducted from the value of the post. Users could then filter to not see posts which have too many relative downvotes or are too controversial (difference between upvotes and downvotes). This would allow giving negative opinions through voting system without creating an ideal playground for actual cyber bullying. (No, I do not consider someone saying something nasty to me "bullying". But if someone directly and materially damages me just because he can then it is real, actual bullying. In their attempt to create a "self regulating" platform, steemit creators have actually constructed a bully's paradise, a place where I can BUY the power to take away your income and shut you up)
But all this is actually quite old discussion. Early MMOs went through exactly this phase almost 20 years ago with harsh death penalties in PvP and gear loss through death. They quite quickly realized where this is leading long term (hint: no, it's not prosperity and steady inflow of new players) and that's why almost no online games today feature this mechanic. As I said, under the hood all social networks are MMORPGs. Ignore the expensive lessons learned from decades of development and research in these games at your own peril.
That's a great system for one thing only - total self censorship. Everyone posts only what is "safe" to everyone.
I can't think of a more safe space than a place without those "weaponised" flags. Steem is a shared social space. We are social animals. Play the game, and be smart about it. If you really want to say something so much (hopefully it's not hate speech, because many supporting freedom of speech usually fail to understand the difference) - just say it? Of course in a place where it's a shared social space, you're guaranteed to have opinions flying in. I wouldn't run into a random village, taking a piss everywhere, spraying graffiti all over without expecting consequences? Plus, you said "everyone posts only what is safe to everyone". Who is everyone?
Edit: had my points jumbled up, might come back to this later.
This would allow giving negative opinions through voting system without creating an ideal playground for actual cyber bullying. (No, I do not consider someone saying something nasty to me "bullying". But if someone directly and materially damages me just because he can then it is real, actual bullying.
How is it materially damaging? Post payouts are not even paid out before it's finalised by the end of X days.
And then you mentioned about MMORPGs - don't they have items where people can buy to become more powerful and be utilised in part of a game? But okay, besides semantics and drawing parallels to MMORPGS , guns, cyberbullying, and censorship (which always gets twisted around here, because content actually stays on the chain regardless, and downvotes are not even exercised wholly by one single authority), flagging is just a tool for a decentralised community to self-regulate the supply distribution. Of course it can be abused like anything else.
But as a game enthusiast, you're actually proposing the total inability for community members to reduce potential payouts, leaving out an attack vector for exploits on so many levels. So what if flags are "defanged", giving everybody else ways to exploit the game up to "unlimited" earnings? With a community board just stating inconsequential opinions.. then what happens? It's not likely the relevant community members that are adding to the abuse/exploit gonna correct themselves - they're the ones doing it in the first place. This is will kill the entire system. Even worse is that it allows self-voted spam to go unchecked.
As for your perception that flags create a "cyberbullies paradise", consider these:-
Power have to be bought into - this improves the value for everyone else.
Downvotes are just as much a scarce resource as upvotes. Sometimes I even downvote comments that I don't want seen at the top of my posts, or anyone else's just to arrange the ranking. Is that cyberbullying? That's just perception.
This creates a nice derived indicator of how "controversial" (in other words, interesting)
Controversial does not mean interesting btw..
I've likened Steem as an MMORPG, but like everything else, even if we can reason out intelligibly that X = Y, doesn't mean that it's all 100% the same, like how you're trying reason out that what worked or didn't work for MMORPGs is entirely applicable to something like Steem. Not nearly the same thing.
Your last paragraph answers your own arguments. Steemit is cutthroat capitalistic, and it will never change to be any other way. Any hope for a more "socialized" Steemit is played out on deaf ears. Like most things, someone else will have to design something similar to Steemit, but not for personal profit, and released as totally open source. And neither EOS nor SMT are true solutions. So I'm still waiting. In the meantime there's Steemit. ;)
We have had no problems because when someone is illegitimately censored large stakeholders get involved.
"Trending and hot pages have to be SEVERELY redesigned." I agree with this, your idea is ok but a lot more than that can be done. I think we should be able to follow tags as well.
"And this is just the beginning. Of course the system is designed to be cutthroat capitalism, but there are reasons why cutthroat capitalism never worked for the majority of the population," this is dumb.
"into a system of eternal, untouchable monopolies, cronyism and all-powerful robber barons, a game where newcomers have no future." even dumber. god forbid that the early bird actually get the worm.
Of course it is. It's a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It is Massively Multiplayer Online and it is a Role Playing Game. Your account is your character. You are roleplaying it. All social networks are MMORPGS. No difference in the underlying reality whether you're an axe wielding Orc in Wow or an artist on imgur. From the systems perspective it's the same thing. And the most fragile and complex mechanisms in MMORPGs, by far, are their economies.
But it's not like these things haven't been studied extensively for almost two decades now. There's billions of dollars in these games' economies. Virtual moneys way before this crypto wave. To ignore all this experience and knowledge and just plunge ahead with your whitepaper written on a piece of toilet paper and no knowledge whatsoever what happens when you introduce a currency into a heterogenous, anonymous population following an arbitrary set of rules is... not smart.
But ok, let's start at the beginning... 1999 to be precise. Yes, almost 20 years ago.
He who doesn't know history is doomed to repeat it. http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html The In-game Economics of Ultima Online
Zachary Booth Simpson, Origin Research Fellow
7 Apr 1999
I mis the days when one could write a short blog post with little effort and easily earn hundreds of steem dollars. It's so sad everyone has abandoned the project, it looked so promising. Then again, the graphics are not very good are they? The game mechanic is supper hard even if you are a pay to win player with deep pockets. I suppose all games not publishing expansion packs are doomed to be abandoned. We all log into our steem accounts for that nostalgic feeling and all the lovely memories from back when it was a thing. A window in time for us to look back to the golden days.
I'm joking of course. This MMORPG never had golden days and lets hope it will never get any given that the pie was sliced up in advance.
I'm here not for the money but to see a content ranking system build in the wild. I consider myself able to produce content of some type of quality. So far the system has not been able to populate my postings with an audience with a single exception.
While a poor data sample the interest in this posting suggests the community is up for debating the building of a more challenging game.
I suggest making up and down voting cost a percentage of the wallet and taxing each transaction of the kind. A huge account can still pump up a smaller secondary one and that account can pump up an even smaller one and so on. The whale will have to again pay the tax every step of the way.
Be serious for a moment? Give me 1 cent for my effort? Are you fucking kidding me?
If you see a street performer, do you ever give him 1 cent? What kind of response do you expect if you did? Oh ghee thanks man!?
No guys, you better hold onto that 1 cent if it really means so much to you.
Even the dumbest MMO randomized rewards. Valuable drops are things one can use in the game. Preferably consumables.
Well it's survival, innit?
It's the old wolves' dilemma from game theory.
Wolves want to eat sheep. But if wolves do eat all the sheep, they themselves will starve...
As wolves are, by definition, selfish they will have to eventually go against their nature and feign altruism to stave off extinction.
I don't know what's the retention rate for the platform, but steem $ value is dropping. If the whales want to retain their gains they will have to make concessions otherwise they will quite literally melt away.
Whether they are capable of this, I don't know. Saint Darwin will judge them in the end, just like all of us. There is no cheating natural selection.
Game theory applies here also, but like at prisoners dilemma.
Since uninformed players are trying to maximize their income, the optimum solution is missed.
No other explanation of flagging while it is a sacrifice of VP that can be used for, at least self-upvote.
Prisoner's dilemma is fallacious for all practical purposes. It presupposes that both (all) actors are perfectly selfish and therefore sociopathic (aka "perfect" according to Chicago school of economics at least). However, dominant sociopathic tendencies are statistically recorded in only 5-10 % of population, the rest being "abnormal" "sheep" or just plain normal folks who juggle selfishness with genuine altruism. (I guess there is a proportion similar to that of the wolves of "super-sheep" or "martyrs" who are overwhelmingly altruistic but I couldn't find any research on that, I guess self-sacrificing saints are not as interesting as serial killers and sociopaths next door)
Anyways, Game Theory is very interesting and even practically useful but only if you take into account the realities of human animal.
As for flagging... I've done some thought experiments on it and I can't say I've found a truly satisfying solution - IF our goal is a stable, permanent social system (And that is an assumption. It is perfectly possible the original purpose of steemit is to fleece as much as you can and run, a classical pyramid scheme - but not a social space of any permanence). Anyway you turn it, it is introducing weapons into anarchy. Never a good thing unless you're into Mad Max style juvenile dystopian fantasies. Kindergartens function only because children are forbidden from having knives. Primate group dynamics take hold very quickly and Lord of the Flies scenario becomes inevitable. Primates are a nasty animal order in general, better not give them guns if you don't absolutely have to. And if you do, at least give them toy guns.
For me, the prisoner's dilemma is tested and proved here with facts and data.
There are 2 people, Person A and Person B.
Person A : Greedy and selfish but totally legal ( not fair ) according to the system. Posts 10 times a day with discussable content and self-upvotes all his posts with maximum power. Consumes %6 of the reward pool alone with approximately 3000SBD. If he didn' exist, everyone's income should be theoretically higher by %6.
Person B : Rejects this situation, knowing that if Person A is stopped, everyone's income should increase by %6 including his.
With above conditions, the game starts.
Person B requests Person A to decrease the number of his posts to 4 times a day which should mean %60 decrease in Person A's income.
Person A rejects this and Person B starts downvoting Person A stripping approximately %20 of his income back to the reward pool. ( 600 SBD )
The pay-out table of this game is as below :
As you can see, there exists a much better solution for both parties ( reject-not flag ) but the parties, trying to maximize their income, applies the non-ideal solution.
I have written a more detailed post on the reward pool and flag wars.
I am really happy when I find intelligence on this planet.
100% vote because you are 1000% correct! Steemit platform is made so that Whales earn more. They are free to do anything they want because they have the steem power to do so, but if it's someone like me, a new guy, they will flag you and accussed of spam etc. Flags need to go! The only reason they flag is because they get pay for it. Otherwise they won't fucking care. Steemit is full of greedy assholes acting like they are here "because the technology"
Well it's sort of like with politics.
No matter what idiots or how corrupt they are...They are chosen from the majority ;)
Of course not every politic is an idiot.Don't get me wrong!
Who said that politicians are good people? ... Difficult very difficult for a good person to succeed in politics .... Why? because to succeed in politics the person must be:
1- Knowing how to lie White Lies.
2- Perverse. Do good actions to the collective today to achieve a personal or individual goal
No feelings. If you have to do moral and ethical harm to someone in order to reach power ... Well, it's done.
Without values. Decisions must be made that go against human and religious values.
I can develop the topic here, but the above mentioned can you reader friend consider it necessary for a person to succeed in politics today ... The world and the way of doing politics is changing, but they are changing for the worse ... Today day a porn actress is considered a celebrity, instead a singer who dresses sexy and sensual dance is considered a vulgar without values ???
It is more profitable to give minutes and news space to scandals of porn actresses than to actresses who do excellent role in independent films ..... Not counting the news of human and natural catastrophes ....
Agreed, the game theory on Steemit is a mess, but I've given up making suggestions.
"Otherwise we have a dystopian future where someone can quite literally BUY censorship powers."
You mean a dystopian PRESENT? This is just how it works, and it will work this way here. No flags = no way to combat abuse. Death knell.
"Second. Trending and hot pages have to be SEVERELY redesigned."
We've all been saying this, some of us for years. Almost nobody disagrees. Nothing is done.
"cutthroat capitalism"
This is just the default state of nature and default "optimal" game theory strategy in any game. Take the max you can get before the price is too high.
Beats the hall out of massive-tool Anarchyhasnogod's lust for being ruled again by Stalin and insistence that "all property is theft."
Hey man! I'm working on an idea that I think works with better game mechanics. I'm also starting a YouTube / Dtube series of conversations with strangers from all over the Internet and I think you and I could have a great discussion about the hypothetical design of a better system. Would you be interested? Hit me up on Twitter https://twitter.com/technoplato/
Your democratic vote system wouldn't work either.
Buy 100 Accounts (only 300 Steem and you don't even "lose" it it's just gone for a while).
Or buy upotes. Ever send like 0.3 to smartsteem? You get like 50 votes.
There is no perfect solution for this.
Also I do not agree with your first point either.
Flags are costly and there is little value in flagging besides going against spam.
You spend 10$ silencing somebody? Well he can just as well spend 10$ to be visible again.
Also it isn't censorship it's still accessible for everyone. (or you would miss most of bernies posts ;) )
I'm too new to have much of a handle on the ins and outs but the biggest drawback to the whole platform is clearly that it's so open to abuse. Without going into the gaming angle (of which I have zero knowledge) yours strikes me as a great and constructive response. Don't know if the suggestion in your para 3 is original but it sounds brilliant. From what I've read elsewhere people are quick to scream 'censorship' when the idea when the idea of curtailing freedom of action is raised, but as you seem to imply, what's going in the form of some getting a wildly disproportionate voice and say is itself a form of censorship. What a pity it all is. This could be such a great platform and it seems it's being thoroughly subverted. This, humanity, is why we can't have nice things.
@berniesanders Noted! But you should be more specific, what is consider "Trash"? Because every day I checked on Trending and all I see is trash so I joined the bid bots party. @ausbitbank downvoted 1 of my post and told me that it was shitpost which I have to admit it was.
So please do take a look and let me know if that is trash too?, Could you please show all of us at least 10 posts that are not trash?, this way we all can learn from "Quality" content 😀
I'm willing to do my best to not post trash, but Im not sure what is trash or not according to you and other police whales in this place. So please educate us as I dont want to be getting downvote by the Steemit police. The last thing I want is to be fighting wars which I can't win.
With the said, thank you for warning us. Hope that you see my comment and be kind enough to reply as I would really like to know what I can post and promote like a mad men without being downvote by the people running this shit show called Steemit 😘
FYI, that last post really isn't much better. I see a single paragraph (91 words) that wasn't directly copy pasted off this shitcoins promo page. Try harder - we don't need another kingscrown.
for someone who wants to be a leader for the Hispanic community you are struggling to see the cost of your words.
What I'm trying to say, is that even if you have a point to make, even if you were correct about certain things, the moment you resort to lower yourself to this level, you defeated all of your arguments.
En mi opinion no deberias dejar que tus emociones dominen tu lenguaje. Nadie relevante te va a escuchar.
When did I say that I want to be a fucking leader? Are you stupid?, I dont let my emotions control my action, Im just realistic and say things how I see it. @ausbitbank is just another greedy cunt that dont like to see others profit from Steemit. I'm lowering myself replying to a nobody likes you. Do you think that I care if a whale respond to me or not? Couldnt care any less.
Do you know what freedom of speech is? Is me being able to express myself the way I want to Like saying you comment is so fucking stupid, you are just another scary cat too afraid to stand to some poor whales. Do you see?, I couldnt care any less about someone else opinion of me. Im not a pro, not a guru, not a fucking leader. And people that watch my videos already know that because I tell them this. You argument is invalid, come back when you have something better to say bitch
I guess I felt it was implied from your "I have the a big youtube channel with thousands of followers" rant calling out @grumpycat . But you are right, "you have never said you were a leader" and in my opinion your inability to have an adult conversation shows that it's probably the right move for you.
I did not insult you, but you felt compelled to insult me... believe it or not I was trying to help, but its OK... you want to be an island, go fish.
jeez ... its like I've been slapped right in the face by the undertaker... I was so very excited at first to stumble at the big gainers post and start to get involve with all the activities been post well there were more hidden story..I saw one of my post been invade by 2 same bot and they sucking down the value of the post... I'm just a newbie.
Really? @berniesanders is actually my favorite user because from what I have noticed, from my short time on here, he speaks the truth. Posts do not trend because the content is good, they mostly trend because users are buying massive amounts of votes from bots. Honestly, if you have a rep score above 60, followers, and some steem related money in your account do they really need to buy more votes? In theory, if their content is organically valuable, shouldn't the content float to the top without buying massive amounts of votes? Steemit could easily write a simple voting script that prevents bad actors by looking at the authors rep score, their post, the money spent on votes to artificially inflate the posts trending position. There's so much they can do but they won't because they know they don't have enough engaged users to generate organic votes. If you are the one of the most hated I might need to follow you.
Haha. Could be. But I think it has more to do with the fact that I've called out whales, I'm not super optimistic about Steemit, I don't sing its praises, and I'm all around considered toxic.
I've been blacklisted by the major stakeholders, meaning I will never receive upvotes from them.
Oh, well. It's a stake based platform, this is just how it goes.
Most are just reaping curation rewards, not producing anything. Being parasites. Especially @haejin. I actually admire @berniesanders and his efforts to clean up the place. But he's way too outnumbered and is not likely to succeed, unfortunately.
Hey, @berniesanders you're pretty right on about most things but I've come to be a bit fond of @jerrybanfield. I think he is a genuine guy and puts his heart into his blog posts. Maybe it's not the topic everyone wants to see in the Trending category, but Jerry Banfield is alright with me.
@JerryBanfield puts out content like a sick child puts out diarrhea. Tons and tons of really bad advice because he tries to be an expert on everything under the sun. Digg deeper into any subject to reveal all the misinfo he gave you.
I concur. I just began and already feel ignored. My artwork gets great reviews on other websites but so far barely anyone has acknowledged the few paintings I've posted. Please come visit me here: https://steemit.com/@mongoosely. I will still follow your regardless.
Just keep in mind that every social network can take time to build a following. Don't give up hope! I feel like Steemit will only get better with time, not worse. Keep creating good content, and you'll be rewarded one day.
@chbartist is notorious for making shitposts and bidding the fuck out of them, please get rid of him bernie! As awful as it is to say, I'd love to see all his SBD gone on a single post.
You'll have to be persistent though - most of the voting bots who vote for curation purposes won't even notice for a few weeks because I don't think they pay much attention to what actually goes on on this site.
I'll tell you what, even when really good posts get promoted by curating organizations on Steemit, in a pure meritocratic way, I failed to see ONE vote from the so-called art-appreciators and good post promoters among the whales that ACTUALLY vote on that post.
It's only the endless trail of that specific organization. So, where exactly are those guys that want to make the trending page a quality driven KPI?
I can give you hundreds of examples. It is either a shit competition between these organization's trailing peeps not to vote on another's promoted post, or just plain ignorance from the lone wolfs that actually don't give a flying fuck what's on trending page, and they are just doing this shit show of downvoting the shit posts on trending just to get more attention.
Ha!!@berniesanders, it's like you read my mind. But of course, you didn't have to, because lots of people are talking about this very issue.
I don't have enough voting power to make much of a difference. And I haven't been here that long. But even I can see two things:
The unmediated pay-for-votes system has turned the trending page into the Shopping Channel. FYI, I don't think that's going to be great for growth. (Unless that was the plan all along).
Lots of minows/plankton are getting pissed off when they perceive that the content getting big payouts is significantly more shithouse than what they are producing. Once there are enough of them (us - who am I kidding, you all know I'm one of them), and they figure out the right lever, things might get pretty interesting.
The whales/bots/bot owners have a lot of power; so much that people feel like there is nothing that they can do. But that's just here, on steemit. I mean FFS, even I have more twitter followers than @ned. Disgruntled plankton trying to level the playing field need to think outside the square and work out where else the biggest steem stakeholders are amenable to persuasion.
I know I am never getting rich on here, hell sitting at the bottom of the food chain the only thing I am guaranteed is plenty of exercise trying to out swim all the bottom feeders down here with me.
Indeed, I too can see this is unlikely to be my key to financial independence. But if I'm not going to make much money, I intend to not make much money doing something interesting, like trying to see if I can start a revolution amongst the underpaid majority of steemians.
lol, I don't know about starting a revolution but yeah I am not one not to voice my opinion out of fear. Even if you got people to do boycott a whales days or something it's only apparent most whales run more than one account, sock whale accounts...lol. I am going to follow you though, I might not get in all the dust ups but their may be a few I might feel compelled to add some backbone.
at least it should be changing a lot more what posts are on the trending page ! It is waaaay too fixed and static! You make a new post and you are lucky if even 1 person sees it on the new page, before its drowned by even newer posts.. daaaaimn
My biggest issue with the trending tab, apart from the bleedin' obvious is that it is the main page that new people first see of Steemit. It Should be merged with the promoted tab and the home page should show a random selection of all the posts made giving others a chance to be discovered. Just sayin'. This site is getting out of hand
I agree with you to start flagging those crap posts
because
As someone who helps manage the Israeli community and as someone who brought people to Steemit, I can definitely say that it bothers a lot of people, especially newcomers, that don't understand what actually going on and don't understand why certain content is on the trending page.....
Hola @berniesanders
De verdad, trato de no montar basura.
Estoy en un proceso de aprendizaje y por favor, disculpen si cometo pecados. Realmente son involuntarios.
Saludos y Gracias
while someone has enough resources to invest in voting bot ... can publish up to 3 post daily and always be in trend ... so post a meme of a dog laughing ... and say something stupid will always have a favorable vote because , people already know that this publication will be in trend and people try to get some curatorship ... while others kill the ceredro trying to publish something that calls attention without success ...
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I definitely agree with the issues regarding the trending page. Many posts with little to no value displayed as tumors with makeup gets old pretty fast. What does concern me however is making a platform that seems to not welcome investment. After all we are all here holding some bags, some big, some small.
nazis killed around 17mln of their enemies.
communists killed around 90 mln, most of their own who had improper viewpoints.
So you were saying something or someone just farted?
I actually come from a country that was under communism.
You dont know shi*.
My parents still remember lack of toilet paperand everything else.
Ok. I’ll engage with your comment. I just want to say that Stalin would probably have killed me, too.
Memes are not a substitute for truth.
Sure, the toilet paper situation you describe is absurd, but it exists around the world today. Instead of there not being toilet paper, people can’t afford to buy it. Or, replace toilet paper with other commodities that the world’s poorest are unable to purchase or procure. So yeah, your example highlights an absurdity, but it doesn’t prove anything.
It’s also irrelevant to the proposed ‘90 million’ number. This figure is propaganda. I’m not denying there were deaths under 20th century ‘communist’ regimes. Yes, there were executions and worse. But the 90 million number is contested by historians, both on the right and the left.
The majority of deaths under these regimes come from famine. Now, if you want to argue that these famines were orchestrated by their respective governments (Russian and Chinese), then the weight is on you to prove that. I’m of the opinion that these regimes didn’t try to personally murder millions of their own citizens, because that’s absurd. Again, the majority of deaths under these regimes were a result of famine, and the conditions of that famine were not intentional or desired.
As for the actual numbers, the total deaths from executions in the soviet union is, officially, less than a million. Is that shocking and horrifying? Yes. But its not 90 million.
That 90 million number you’re touting is from lazy research. Reactionary scholars, in an effort to paint the worst picture possible, lumped together all policies, civil wars, terror campaigns, land reforms, famines, wars and more. Point being, it’s not very specific or helpful at understanding history and the reasons for what happened. It claims that 90 million were intentionally murdered in some insane conspiracy to…what, exactly?
These regimes wanted people to work. They wanted to build industry. Developing productive forces was their primary goal. Why would they want to kill millions of their own citizens, when that’s the opposite of their intended goal.
Worse, this 90 million number actually gets people, like you, to believe that communists are worse than Nazis. You’re now claiming that Nazis, who explicitly want to murder the disabled, jewish persons, leftists, and anyone that disagrees with their psychotic race-purist fascist project, are less bad than communists, who want equality and freedom.
*>**How can I contact with my favorite author/blogger via steemit exept the reply option?***
And as I see most of the time, Persons with higher **SP** gets more opportunity. Even if they post valueless posts,they are getting tons of money out of that.
Even, I haven't learnt any good thing from them.
**So, no Idea how to engage in best type of blogging here. Is only posting any type of content is the way to be successful?*****How can I get more engaged in blogging with good performance? Please direct me in the right way possible!***
*>**How can I contact with my favorite author/blogger via steemit exept the reply option?***
And as I see most of the time, Persons with higher **SP** gets more opportunity. Even if they post valueless posts,they are getting tons of money out of that.
Even, I haven't learnt any good thing from them.
**So, no Idea how to engage in best type of blogging here. Is only posting any type of content is the way to be successful?*****How can I get more engaged in blogging with good performance? Please direct me in the right way possible!***
As an (amateur) game designer, I can tell you that the whole Steem system sucks from the perspective of game mechanics.
It has to be redesigned from bottom up.
First, flags have to go. No flags. Or if they remain they have to be completely without any material effect. Otherwise we have a dystopian future where someone can quite literally BUY censorship powers. I don't like your review of my product, I'll just flag you to invisibility. People are sick of censorship, that's why they're seeking new social platforms... and here you give tools for ANYONE with deep enough pockets to silence anyone they wish.
Second. Trending and hot pages have to be SEVERELY redesigned. For example, there should be a category for posts which have a lot of votes of small SBD value. Popular vote, democratic vote if you will. One account, one vote.
And this is just the beginning. Of course the system is designed to be cutthroat capitalism, but there are reasons why cutthroat capitalism never worked for the majority of the population, especially over time. It is all fine and dandy in the beginning, when the playing ground is fresh, but it very quickly devolves into a system of eternal, untouchable monopolies, cronyism and all-powerful robber barons, a game where newcomers have no future. In other words, from a game designer perspective - this is fantastic if you're making a game with a definite end. On the other hand, this positive feedback loop is terrible for a game which is supposed to last indefinitely. Really, I have a hunch people who designed this concept never played a MMORPG in their life...
no capitalism has ever worked for the majority of the population lmao
^Lol ok. you just commented on a post that you did not upvote, and upvoted your own comment on that post. But socialism totally works, right?
have you ever heard of the term capital accumulation?
With a system based on capital accumulation you must push for the highest rate of profit or eventually be pushed back to the levels of working class. I must stay ahead of this if I ever wish to make change in society, this is just one of the reasons capitalism is destructive. The problem is not that socialism does not work, its that capitalism must destroy everything else to survive.
Yeah, I can understand why you upvoted yourself. What I don't understand is why you did not upvote the post you are commenting on. Surely he "must push for the highest rate of profit or eventually be pushed back to the levels of working class" as well. Why didn't you consider that and upvote his post? Aren't socialist suppose to be empathetic? Isn't that suppose to be the reason why you are a socialist? I didn't even agree with it and I upvoted (as a capitalist) just because I appreciate genuine thought.
I have read socialist books. It's hard to make it all way through most of them. They aren't that good. I do not like Stirner. I can't take someone serious while they are using the word spook.
The Conquest of Bread did a decent job of not being complete shit, though.
"Why didn't you consider that and upvote his post? Aren't socialist suppose to be empathetic?"
wow you are dense lmao.
its because revolution is the only way to save the tens of millions who die of poverty every year. All money that does not go to leads to more death. The most empathetic thing to do is not upvote the post of somebody not fighting for revolution
Ah, so you didn't upvote because you are retarded. Got it.
I stopped following you because of this comment. I'm sorry but you are obnoxious. I simply can't stand rich champagne-socialist hypocrites pretending to weep about the poor. You are sitting on a fortune, which could help hundreds of families. What do you do instead? Sit here on a capitalist social network site and bemoan how you are better than everyone else.
Who said that politicians are good people? ... Difficult very difficult for a good person to succeed in politics .... Why? because to succeed in politics the person must be:
1- Knowing how to lie White Lies.
2- Perverse. Do good actions to the collective today to achieve a personal or individual goal
No feelings. If you have to do moral and ethical harm to someone in order to reach power ... Well, it's done.
Without values. Decisions must be made that go against human and religious values.
I can develop the topic here, but the above mentioned can you reader friend consider it necessary for a person to succeed in politics today ... The world and the way of doing politics is changing, but they are changing for the worse ... Today day a porn actress is considered a celebrity, instead a singer who dresses sexy and sensual dance is considered a vulgar without values ???
It is more profitable to give minutes and news space to scandals of porn actresses than to actresses who do excellent role in independent films ..... Not counting the news of human and natural catastrophes ....
🤘🏼♨️
Here is a picture of the moon from last night
I Refrained from Upvoting because i dont believe it deserves reward.
Especially since the folk it is direcred at could care less and will keep on abusing the system.
I think it's working, the folks are taking notice...
"capital accumulation"
the single phrase describing steemit
yeah its not going to end well at this rate
True.....
and judging by your comment you have zero understanding of any socialist theory
My brain melted reading this
what brain:) since I am on steemit for 2 years, I feel "fried"
Which part? lol
This guy is a supreme asshole who argues with intellectual dishonesty at the forefront of his strategy. He also longs to be ruled by Stalin, almost as if he has a fetish for degradation.
Ignore him.
Lolz @ you capitalist oppressors, both of yous!
I see all them dollars flyin around my post and me getting only cents!
I cry for justice! Revolution! :D
"Stand up you victims of oppression..."
ironic
My thought exactly haha
Nah, I'm dead serious man. This injustice simply cannot stand!
(gief upvotes lol, nudge nudge)
And besides I got a warm spot in my heart for the song. We sang it at school almost every day. I kinda have some first hand experience with these themes...
The art of politics is irony
Fork back your means of production, Comrade @compleatgamester. 😎
Sorry this is a very bad thing you are spreading here.
What, a joke? You actually downvoted the post because you a) don't get the joke and b) don't agree with it politically? And this carries real material damage to me?
You feel that you are justified in doing physical, material damage to my wallet just because you do not agree with me, because you "think" that I am doing "a very bad thing"? I don't recall internationalle being illegal, and I don't recall that making jokes is illegal. It is your opinion, and you exercise your power to materially hurt me because I have a different taste in humor?
Now imagine a person with opinions that you feel the worst possible - and that person buys a few hundred thousand dollars worth of steem and goes after you and your posts. Just because he can, he doesn't like your sense of humor, your political opinions or just doesn't like you personally. Just imagine that.
You just perfectly illustrated what is wrong with the downvotes system as it is now.
You mean damage to PENDING FUTURE POTENTIAL gain. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing can be taken from you that hasn't been given to you yet.
What matt-a said - if you don't hold it, you don't own it (yet).
And now for something personal: I LIVED through a goddamn communist dictatorship and I know what goddamn censorship and getting bullied for your opinions really is. My great-grandfather died in a communist "reeducation" camp for making "wrong jokes" and writing "wrong poems". And you DARE to downvote and therefore materially assault me for posting a "wrongthink" tongue-in-cheek joke about communism??!
Can you even perceive in that pea-brain of yours how "ironic" that is?!
"communist dictatorship"
Don't argue with this asshole. He is a troll/agent provocateur designed to wear you out and waste your time. Don't give him anything to play against. Just totally ignore him. Mute him.
Ok i took my downvote back. Its quite misleading.
I would imaging he upvoted it so that it could be read by more people ( My guess only)
what's wrong with downvotes? reddit has downvotes. learn to take a negative opinion.
I have no problem whatsoever with negative opinions. The problem appears when you give everyone a gun and completely free license to use it in order to enforce their opinions.
Downvotes and flags should stay imo.. but they have to be defanged, deweaponized. Otherwise you achieve completely opposite effect from free exchange of opinions. Would you be as vocal with YOUR opinions if you knew that everyone knows where you live and if they chose to they can blow your brains out, with no liability whatsoever?
That's a great system for one thing only - total self censorship. Everyone posts only what is "safe" to everyone. In other words, inspirational quotes and pictures of cats. A social network which fosters this kind of community through its mechanics will not survive the upcoming realignment of the market.
Personally, I prefer systems which do not add up upvotes and downvotes but keep them separate. This creates a nice derived indicator of how "controversial" (in other words, interesting) a post is. In Steemit downvotes could be recorded, maybe even their steem value, but not deducted from the value of the post. Users could then filter to not see posts which have too many relative downvotes or are too controversial (difference between upvotes and downvotes). This would allow giving negative opinions through voting system without creating an ideal playground for actual cyber bullying. (No, I do not consider someone saying something nasty to me "bullying". But if someone directly and materially damages me just because he can then it is real, actual bullying. In their attempt to create a "self regulating" platform, steemit creators have actually constructed a bully's paradise, a place where I can BUY the power to take away your income and shut you up)
But all this is actually quite old discussion. Early MMOs went through exactly this phase almost 20 years ago with harsh death penalties in PvP and gear loss through death. They quite quickly realized where this is leading long term (hint: no, it's not prosperity and steady inflow of new players) and that's why almost no online games today feature this mechanic. As I said, under the hood all social networks are MMORPGs. Ignore the expensive lessons learned from decades of development and research in these games at your own peril.
I can't think of a more safe space than a place without those "weaponised" flags. Steem is a shared social space. We are social animals. Play the game, and be smart about it. If you really want to say something so much (hopefully it's not hate speech, because many supporting freedom of speech usually fail to understand the difference) - just say it? Of course in a place where it's a shared social space, you're guaranteed to have opinions flying in. I wouldn't run into a random village, taking a piss everywhere, spraying graffiti all over without expecting consequences? Plus, you said "everyone posts only what is safe to everyone". Who is everyone?Edit: had my points jumbled up, might come back to this later.
How is it materially damaging? Post payouts are not even paid out before it's finalised by the end of X days.
And then you mentioned about MMORPGs - don't they have items where people can buy to become more powerful and be utilised in part of a game? But okay, besides semantics and drawing parallels to MMORPGS , guns, cyberbullying, and censorship (which always gets twisted around here, because content actually stays on the chain regardless, and downvotes are not even exercised wholly by one single authority), flagging is just a tool for a decentralised community to self-regulate the supply distribution. Of course it can be abused like anything else.
But as a game enthusiast, you're actually proposing the total inability for community members to reduce potential payouts, leaving out an attack vector for exploits on so many levels. So what if flags are "defanged", giving everybody else ways to exploit the game up to "unlimited" earnings? With a community board just stating inconsequential opinions.. then what happens? It's not likely the relevant community members that are adding to the abuse/exploit gonna correct themselves - they're the ones doing it in the first place. This is will kill the entire system. Even worse is that it allows self-voted spam to go unchecked.
As for your perception that flags create a "cyberbullies paradise", consider these:-
Controversial does not mean interesting btw..
I've likened Steem as an MMORPG, but like everything else, even if we can reason out intelligibly that X = Y, doesn't mean that it's all 100% the same, like how you're trying reason out that what worked or didn't work for MMORPGs is entirely applicable to something like Steem. Not nearly the same thing.
Your last paragraph answers your own arguments. Steemit is cutthroat capitalistic, and it will never change to be any other way. Any hope for a more "socialized" Steemit is played out on deaf ears. Like most things, someone else will have to design something similar to Steemit, but not for personal profit, and released as totally open source. And neither EOS nor SMT are true solutions. So I'm still waiting. In the meantime there's Steemit. ;)
Simple Token is something to check out.
"First, flags have to go. No flags. "
Lmao. No.
We have had no problems because when someone is illegitimately censored large stakeholders get involved.
"Trending and hot pages have to be SEVERELY redesigned." I agree with this, your idea is ok but a lot more than that can be done. I think we should be able to follow tags as well.
"And this is just the beginning. Of course the system is designed to be cutthroat capitalism, but there are reasons why cutthroat capitalism never worked for the majority of the population," this is dumb.
"into a system of eternal, untouchable monopolies, cronyism and all-powerful robber barons, a game where newcomers have no future." even dumber. god forbid that the early bird actually get the worm.
steemit is not an mmo.
steemit is not an mmo
Of course it is. It's a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It is Massively Multiplayer Online and it is a Role Playing Game. Your account is your character. You are roleplaying it. All social networks are MMORPGS. No difference in the underlying reality whether you're an axe wielding Orc in Wow or an artist on imgur. From the systems perspective it's the same thing. And the most fragile and complex mechanisms in MMORPGs, by far, are their economies.
But it's not like these things haven't been studied extensively for almost two decades now. There's billions of dollars in these games' economies. Virtual moneys way before this crypto wave. To ignore all this experience and knowledge and just plunge ahead with your whitepaper written on a piece of toilet paper and no knowledge whatsoever what happens when you introduce a currency into a heterogenous, anonymous population following an arbitrary set of rules is... not smart.
But ok, let's start at the beginning... 1999 to be precise. Yes, almost 20 years ago.
He who doesn't know history is doomed to repeat it.
http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html
The In-game Economics of Ultima Online
Zachary Booth Simpson, Origin Research Fellow
7 Apr 1999
I mis the days when one could write a short blog post with little effort and easily earn hundreds of steem dollars. It's so sad everyone has abandoned the project, it looked so promising. Then again, the graphics are not very good are they? The game mechanic is supper hard even if you are a pay to win player with deep pockets. I suppose all games not publishing expansion packs are doomed to be abandoned. We all log into our steem accounts for that nostalgic feeling and all the lovely memories from back when it was a thing. A window in time for us to look back to the golden days.
I'm joking of course. This MMORPG never had golden days and lets hope it will never get any given that the pie was sliced up in advance.
I'm here not for the money but to see a content ranking system build in the wild. I consider myself able to produce content of some type of quality. So far the system has not been able to populate my postings with an audience with a single exception.
https://steemit.com/gamble/@gaby-de-wilde/improved-rules-for-the-royal-game-of-ur
While a poor data sample the interest in this posting suggests the community is up for debating the building of a more challenging game.
I suggest making up and down voting cost a percentage of the wallet and taxing each transaction of the kind. A huge account can still pump up a smaller secondary one and that account can pump up an even smaller one and so on. The whale will have to again pay the tax every step of the way.
Be serious for a moment? Give me 1 cent for my effort? Are you fucking kidding me?
If you see a street performer, do you ever give him 1 cent? What kind of response do you expect if you did? Oh ghee thanks man!?
No guys, you better hold onto that 1 cent if it really means so much to you.
Even the dumbest MMO randomized rewards. Valuable drops are things one can use in the game. Preferably consumables.
Following tags is a really really good idea here!
To redesign, there is one major problem to be solved...What is in it for the whales?
FD.
Well it's survival, innit?
It's the old wolves' dilemma from game theory.
Wolves want to eat sheep. But if wolves do eat all the sheep, they themselves will starve...
As wolves are, by definition, selfish they will have to eventually go against their nature and feign altruism to stave off extinction.
I don't know what's the retention rate for the platform, but steem $ value is dropping. If the whales want to retain their gains they will have to make concessions otherwise they will quite literally melt away.
Whether they are capable of this, I don't know. Saint Darwin will judge them in the end, just like all of us. There is no cheating natural selection.
Steem value hasn't dropped at all. Our market cap rank has been stable the entire time I've been here.
Now that the value of steem has collapsed the whales will have to do something.
Am I playing the game right now?
Game theory applies here also, but like at prisoners dilemma.
Since uninformed players are trying to maximize their income, the optimum solution is missed.
No other explanation of flagging while it is a sacrifice of VP that can be used for, at least self-upvote.
FD.
Prisoner's dilemma is fallacious for all practical purposes. It presupposes that both (all) actors are perfectly selfish and therefore sociopathic (aka "perfect" according to Chicago school of economics at least). However, dominant sociopathic tendencies are statistically recorded in only 5-10 % of population, the rest being "abnormal" "sheep" or just plain normal folks who juggle selfishness with genuine altruism. (I guess there is a proportion similar to that of the wolves of "super-sheep" or "martyrs" who are overwhelmingly altruistic but I couldn't find any research on that, I guess self-sacrificing saints are not as interesting as serial killers and sociopaths next door)
Anyways, Game Theory is very interesting and even practically useful but only if you take into account the realities of human animal.
As for flagging... I've done some thought experiments on it and I can't say I've found a truly satisfying solution - IF our goal is a stable, permanent social system (And that is an assumption. It is perfectly possible the original purpose of steemit is to fleece as much as you can and run, a classical pyramid scheme - but not a social space of any permanence). Anyway you turn it, it is introducing weapons into anarchy. Never a good thing unless you're into Mad Max style juvenile dystopian fantasies. Kindergartens function only because children are forbidden from having knives. Primate group dynamics take hold very quickly and Lord of the Flies scenario becomes inevitable. Primates are a nasty animal order in general, better not give them guns if you don't absolutely have to. And if you do, at least give them toy guns.
For me, the prisoner's dilemma is tested and proved here with facts and data.
There are 2 people, Person A and Person B.
Person A : Greedy and selfish but totally legal ( not fair ) according to the system. Posts 10 times a day with discussable content and self-upvotes all his posts with maximum power. Consumes %6 of the reward pool alone with approximately 3000SBD. If he didn' exist, everyone's income should be theoretically higher by %6.
Person B : Rejects this situation, knowing that if Person A is stopped, everyone's income should increase by %6 including his.
With above conditions, the game starts.
Person B requests Person A to decrease the number of his posts to 4 times a day which should mean %60 decrease in Person A's income.
Person A rejects this and Person B starts downvoting Person A stripping approximately %20 of his income back to the reward pool. ( 600 SBD )
The pay-out table of this game is as below :
As you can see, there exists a much better solution for both parties ( reject-not flag ) but the parties, trying to maximize their income, applies the non-ideal solution.
I have written a more detailed post on the reward pool and flag wars.
I am really happy when I find intelligence on this planet.
FD.
"I am really happy when I find intelligence on this planet."
I think I just came across some.
Welcome to steem!
100% vote because you are 1000% correct! Steemit platform is made so that Whales earn more. They are free to do anything they want because they have the steem power to do so, but if it's someone like me, a new guy, they will flag you and accussed of spam etc. Flags need to go! The only reason they flag is because they get pay for it. Otherwise they won't fucking care. Steemit is full of greedy assholes acting like they are here "because the technology"
Well it's sort of like with politics.
No matter what idiots or how corrupt they are...They are chosen from the majority ;)
Of course not every politic is an idiot.Don't get me wrong!
Who said that politicians are good people? ... Difficult very difficult for a good person to succeed in politics .... Why? because to succeed in politics the person must be:
1- Knowing how to lie White Lies.
2- Perverse. Do good actions to the collective today to achieve a personal or individual goal
No feelings. If you have to do moral and ethical harm to someone in order to reach power ... Well, it's done.
Without values. Decisions must be made that go against human and religious values.
I can develop the topic here, but the above mentioned can you reader friend consider it necessary for a person to succeed in politics today ... The world and the way of doing politics is changing, but they are changing for the worse ... Today day a porn actress is considered a celebrity, instead a singer who dresses sexy and sensual dance is considered a vulgar without values ???
It is more profitable to give minutes and news space to scandals of porn actresses than to actresses who do excellent role in independent films ..... Not counting the news of human and natural catastrophes ....
Agreed, the game theory on Steemit is a mess, but I've given up making suggestions.
"Otherwise we have a dystopian future where someone can quite literally BUY censorship powers."
You mean a dystopian PRESENT? This is just how it works, and it will work this way here. No flags = no way to combat abuse. Death knell.
"Second. Trending and hot pages have to be SEVERELY redesigned."
We've all been saying this, some of us for years. Almost nobody disagrees. Nothing is done.
"cutthroat capitalism"
This is just the default state of nature and default "optimal" game theory strategy in any game. Take the max you can get before the price is too high.
Beats the hall out of massive-tool Anarchyhasnogod's lust for being ruled again by Stalin and insistence that "all property is theft."
Hey man! I'm working on an idea that I think works with better game mechanics. I'm also starting a YouTube / Dtube series of conversations with strangers from all over the Internet and I think you and I could have a great discussion about the hypothetical design of a better system. Would you be interested? Hit me up on Twitter https://twitter.com/technoplato/
Your democratic vote system wouldn't work either.
Buy 100 Accounts (only 300 Steem and you don't even "lose" it it's just gone for a while).
Or buy upotes. Ever send like 0.3 to smartsteem? You get like 50 votes.
There is no perfect solution for this.
Also I do not agree with your first point either.
Flags are costly and there is little value in flagging besides going against spam.
You spend 10$ silencing somebody? Well he can just as well spend 10$ to be visible again.
Also it isn't censorship it's still accessible for everyone. (or you would miss most of bernies posts ;) )
I'm too new to have much of a handle on the ins and outs but the biggest drawback to the whole platform is clearly that it's so open to abuse. Without going into the gaming angle (of which I have zero knowledge) yours strikes me as a great and constructive response. Don't know if the suggestion in your para 3 is original but it sounds brilliant. From what I've read elsewhere people are quick to scream 'censorship' when the idea when the idea of curtailing freedom of action is raised, but as you seem to imply, what's going in the form of some getting a wildly disproportionate voice and say is itself a form of censorship. What a pity it all is. This could be such a great platform and it seems it's being thoroughly subverted. This, humanity, is why we can't have nice things.
@berniesanders Noted! But you should be more specific, what is consider "Trash"? Because every day I checked on Trending and all I see is trash so I joined the bid bots party. @ausbitbank downvoted 1 of my post and told me that it was shitpost which I have to admit it was.
So for my latest post I try to do better:
The ABYSS | Next Generation Digital Distribution Platform
So please do take a look and let me know if that is trash too?, Could you please show all of us at least 10 posts that are not trash?, this way we all can learn from "Quality" content 😀
I'm willing to do my best to not post trash, but Im not sure what is trash or not according to you and other police whales in this place. So please educate us as I dont want to be getting downvote by the Steemit police. The last thing I want is to be fighting wars which I can't win.
With the said, thank you for warning us. Hope that you see my comment and be kind enough to reply as I would really like to know what I can post and promote like a mad men without being downvote by the people running this shit show called Steemit 😘
FYI, that last post really isn't much better. I see a single paragraph (91 words) that wasn't directly copy pasted off this shitcoins promo page. Try harder - we don't need another kingscrown.
Ok @ausbitbank see you in trending 😀
What Deserves To Be On Trending? What Is Trash and What Is Not?
Maybe you should consider posting this comment as blog post, then send it to Trending. :)
I will thanks for the idea.
for someone who wants to be a leader for the Hispanic community you are struggling to see the cost of your words.
What I'm trying to say, is that even if you have a point to make, even if you were correct about certain things, the moment you resort to lower yourself to this level, you defeated all of your arguments.
En mi opinion no deberias dejar que tus emociones dominen tu lenguaje. Nadie relevante te va a escuchar.
When did I say that I want to be a fucking leader? Are you stupid?, I dont let my emotions control my action, Im just realistic and say things how I see it. @ausbitbank is just another greedy cunt that dont like to see others profit from Steemit. I'm lowering myself replying to a nobody likes you. Do you think that I care if a whale respond to me or not? Couldnt care any less.
Do you know what freedom of speech is? Is me being able to express myself the way I want to Like saying you comment is so fucking stupid, you are just another scary cat too afraid to stand to some poor whales. Do you see?, I couldnt care any less about someone else opinion of me. Im not a pro, not a guru, not a fucking leader. And people that watch my videos already know that because I tell them this. You argument is invalid, come back when you have something better to say bitch
I guess I felt it was implied from your "I have the a big youtube channel with thousands of followers" rant calling out @grumpycat . But you are right, "you have never said you were a leader" and in my opinion your inability to have an adult conversation shows that it's probably the right move for you.
I did not insult you, but you felt compelled to insult me... believe it or not I was trying to help, but its OK... you want to be an island, go fish.
cheers.
Great, have a wonderful day kiddo 😘 , go be a leader, make your dreams come true 😀
Steem is most definitely not a shitcoin but I agree with you, those posts are complete spam/irrelevant posts and should be downvoted.
jeez ... its like I've been slapped right in the face by the undertaker... I was so very excited at first to stumble at the big gainers post and start to get involve with all the activities been post well there were more hidden story..I saw one of my post been invade by 2 same bot and they sucking down the value of the post... I'm just a newbie.
This post is on trending...
Sure!
It will be a battle of SP strength. Survival of the fittest! 💪😆
The battle will be one for the ages. LOL
Time to feel responsible to your Home and zip off the flies !
May you be successful in your endeavours. After all, how many whales still care?
I wonder if commenting on your posts gets me blacklisted elsewhere. Not that I care much about such things, just wondering.
I've heard rumblings that bernie and I are the two most hated Steemit members. :)
I wear it as a badge of honor.
Hated by whom and for what, I wonder, especially in your case.
Really? @berniesanders is actually my favorite user because from what I have noticed, from my short time on here, he speaks the truth. Posts do not trend because the content is good, they mostly trend because users are buying massive amounts of votes from bots. Honestly, if you have a rep score above 60, followers, and some steem related money in your account do they really need to buy more votes? In theory, if their content is organically valuable, shouldn't the content float to the top without buying massive amounts of votes? Steemit could easily write a simple voting script that prevents bad actors by looking at the authors rep score, their post, the money spent on votes to artificially inflate the posts trending position. There's so much they can do but they won't because they know they don't have enough engaged users to generate organic votes. If you are the one of the most hated I might need to follow you.
I know bernie and him being hated, but who are you?
I wasn't aware people hated you.
Was it for your (hopefully memory serves here) controversial stance no Megaman X being GOAT?
Haha. Could be. But I think it has more to do with the fact that I've called out whales, I'm not super optimistic about Steemit, I don't sing its praises, and I'm all around considered toxic.
I've been blacklisted by the major stakeholders, meaning I will never receive upvotes from them.
Oh, well. It's a stake based platform, this is just how it goes.
Most are just reaping curation rewards, not producing anything. Being parasites. Especially @haejin. I actually admire @berniesanders and his efforts to clean up the place. But he's way too outnumbered and is not likely to succeed, unfortunately.
Hey, @berniesanders you're pretty right on about most things but I've come to be a bit fond of @jerrybanfield. I think he is a genuine guy and puts his heart into his blog posts. Maybe it's not the topic everyone wants to see in the Trending category, but Jerry Banfield is alright with me.
@JerryBanfield puts out content like a sick child puts out diarrhea. Tons and tons of really bad advice because he tries to be an expert on everything under the sun. Digg deeper into any subject to reveal all the misinfo he gave you.
Can I contact you on steem.chat to report some big abusers anonymously?
@nextgencrypto on steem.chat
Sorry Sir, please help me.....
please sir you can upvote me
You can contact us at @buildawhale on Discord, our #abuse channel is anonymous as only I have access to what people type there.
I concur. I just began and already feel ignored. My artwork gets great reviews on other websites but so far barely anyone has acknowledged the few paintings I've posted. Please come visit me here: https://steemit.com/@mongoosely. I will still follow your regardless.
Just keep doing what you are doing in the meantime. We do our part and let @berniesanders do his.
Just keep in mind that every social network can take time to build a following. Don't give up hope! I feel like Steemit will only get better with time, not worse. Keep creating good content, and you'll be rewarded one day.
That's so true. Cheers!
Steemcleaners will pay out a small reward for abuse reporting that is found to be legit abuse.
Keep the reward small, yes. If the reward is big, some will report themselves after abusing from another account. :)
True. Their will always be those to twist things to their advantage....which ends up being detrimental to the rest.
Get this garbage outta here :-D!
What this i don't i understand!
@chbartist is notorious for making shitposts and bidding the fuck out of them, please get rid of him bernie! As awful as it is to say, I'd love to see all his SBD gone on a single post.
hey @sisygoboom when will we see your next #comedyopenmic entry !
I did one for round 6 - another step by step, this time it's a tutorial on becoming a Tinder Master (just like me)!
daem issy! i missed it...heading over now :)
I'm sick of seeing @chbartist on the trending page too. I agree with this one.
You'll have to be persistent though - most of the voting bots who vote for curation purposes won't even notice for a few weeks because I don't think they pay much attention to what actually goes on on this site.
You need more than one whale to stop the people hogging "trending".
I'll tell you what, even when really good posts get promoted by curating organizations on Steemit, in a pure meritocratic way, I failed to see ONE vote from the so-called art-appreciators and good post promoters among the whales that ACTUALLY vote on that post.
It's only the endless trail of that specific organization. So, where exactly are those guys that want to make the trending page a quality driven KPI?
I can give you hundreds of examples. It is either a shit competition between these organization's trailing peeps not to vote on another's promoted post, or just plain ignorance from the lone wolfs that actually don't give a flying fuck what's on trending page, and they are just doing this shit show of downvoting the shit posts on trending just to get more attention.
Change my mind.
Ha!!@berniesanders, it's like you read my mind. But of course, you didn't have to, because lots of people are talking about this very issue.
I don't have enough voting power to make much of a difference. And I haven't been here that long. But even I can see two things:
The whales/bots/bot owners have a lot of power; so much that people feel like there is nothing that they can do. But that's just here, on steemit. I mean FFS, even I have more twitter followers than @ned. Disgruntled plankton trying to level the playing field need to think outside the square and work out where else the biggest steem stakeholders are amenable to persuasion.
I know I am never getting rich on here, hell sitting at the bottom of the food chain the only thing I am guaranteed is plenty of exercise trying to out swim all the bottom feeders down here with me.
Indeed, I too can see this is unlikely to be my key to financial independence. But if I'm not going to make much money, I intend to not make much money doing something interesting, like trying to see if I can start a revolution amongst the underpaid majority of steemians.
lol, I don't know about starting a revolution but yeah I am not one not to voice my opinion out of fear. Even if you got people to do boycott a whales days or something it's only apparent most whales run more than one account, sock whale accounts...lol. I am going to follow you though, I might not get in all the dust ups but their may be a few I might feel compelled to add some backbone.
I'd better not vote on this just in case :) The trending page is generally full of crap, which is why I rarely go there
Haha yes dude right market is boring me now
This is like any other social media site, right? I mean on YouTube or other Sites the "Trending" Tab is just bullshit too, ya know?
This image strongly resembles my current crypto portfolio...
at least it should be changing a lot more what posts are on the trending page ! It is waaaay too fixed and static! You make a new post and you are lucky if even 1 person sees it on the new page, before its drowned by even newer posts.. daaaaimn
Yeah that is literally trash
A brilliant idea to advertise Steemit!
Hmmmm this is really getting serious.
My biggest issue with the trending tab, apart from the bleedin' obvious is that it is the main page that new people first see of Steemit. It Should be merged with the promoted tab and the home page should show a random selection of all the posts made giving others a chance to be discovered. Just sayin'. This site is getting out of hand
You got a 24.96% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @ngc!
Want to promote your posts too? Check out the Steem Bot Tracker website for more info. If you would like to support the development of @postpromoter and the bot tracker please vote for @yabapmatt for witness!
thank you
finally! hope this will change something
Trending be like: Trash on fire 😂
I agree with you to start flagging those crap posts
As someone who helps manage the Israeli community and as someone who brought people to Steemit, I can definitely say that it bothers a lot of people, especially newcomers, that don't understand what actually going on and don't understand why certain content is on the trending page.....
First get haejin of dtube because 9/10 trending videos are his bullshit "analisys"
Hola @berniesanders
De verdad, trato de no montar basura.
Estoy en un proceso de aprendizaje y por favor, disculpen si cometo pecados. Realmente son involuntarios.
Saludos y Gracias
while someone has enough resources to invest in voting bot ... can publish up to 3 post daily and always be in trend ... so post a meme of a dog laughing ... and say something stupid will always have a favorable vote because , people already know that this publication will be in trend and people try to get some curatorship ... while others kill the ceredro trying to publish something that calls attention without success ...
This is funny. I been here about three weeks and I noticed there are "gangs" of whales. You try commenting on their post? BAM! Flags!
Like the fuck? How are people supposed to advance if you can't try to gain some steem and rep.
There is more trash on trending than on the hot section in my opinion. Not that the hot section isn't full of trash though.
Upvoted me!!!!
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I definitely agree with the issues regarding the trending page. Many posts with little to no value displayed as tumors with makeup gets old pretty fast. What does concern me however is making a platform that seems to not welcome investment. After all we are all here holding some bags, some big, some small.
LOL, bernire sanders... This guy (the real person) is horrible cynical hypocrite. And an actual communist. Thats far worse than nazi.
communists want liberation and equality for all humans.
nazis murdered millions of jews, communists and anyone that didnt fit their biological supremacist bullshit.
But nazis are worse than communists. lol.
Bernie the politician isn't a communist. He's a social democrat at best. I'm an actual communist and I'm telling you this. Your views are backwards.
nazis killed around 17mln of their enemies.
communists killed around 90 mln, most of their own who had improper viewpoints.
So you were saying something or someone just farted?
I actually come from a country that was under communism.
You dont know shi*.
My parents still remember lack of toilet paperand everything else.
Ok. I’ll engage with your comment. I just want to say that Stalin would probably have killed me, too.
Memes are not a substitute for truth.
Sure, the toilet paper situation you describe is absurd, but it exists around the world today. Instead of there not being toilet paper, people can’t afford to buy it. Or, replace toilet paper with other commodities that the world’s poorest are unable to purchase or procure. So yeah, your example highlights an absurdity, but it doesn’t prove anything.
It’s also irrelevant to the proposed ‘90 million’ number. This figure is propaganda. I’m not denying there were deaths under 20th century ‘communist’ regimes. Yes, there were executions and worse. But the 90 million number is contested by historians, both on the right and the left.
The majority of deaths under these regimes come from famine. Now, if you want to argue that these famines were orchestrated by their respective governments (Russian and Chinese), then the weight is on you to prove that. I’m of the opinion that these regimes didn’t try to personally murder millions of their own citizens, because that’s absurd. Again, the majority of deaths under these regimes were a result of famine, and the conditions of that famine were not intentional or desired.
As for the actual numbers, the total deaths from executions in the soviet union is, officially, less than a million. Is that shocking and horrifying? Yes. But its not 90 million.
That 90 million number you’re touting is from lazy research. Reactionary scholars, in an effort to paint the worst picture possible, lumped together all policies, civil wars, terror campaigns, land reforms, famines, wars and more. Point being, it’s not very specific or helpful at understanding history and the reasons for what happened. It claims that 90 million were intentionally murdered in some insane conspiracy to…what, exactly?
These regimes wanted people to work. They wanted to build industry. Developing productive forces was their primary goal. Why would they want to kill millions of their own citizens, when that’s the opposite of their intended goal.
Worse, this 90 million number actually gets people, like you, to believe that communists are worse than Nazis. You’re now claiming that Nazis, who explicitly want to murder the disabled, jewish persons, leftists, and anyone that disagrees with their psychotic race-purist fascist project, are less bad than communists, who want equality and freedom.
Thanks again for sorting the trending page out for some reason and its mostly dump!
That's gonna be a full-time job! Get some Red Bull ready :-)
Help the minnows instead, flagging it's wasting
Couldn't help laughing at your tag your writing sucks so I embellished it a bit for you:
I am new here.
*>**How can I contact with my favorite author/blogger via steemit exept the reply option?***And as I see most of the time, Persons with higher **SP** gets more opportunity. Even if they post valueless posts,they are getting tons of money out of that.
Even, I haven't learnt any good thing from them.
**So, no Idea how to engage in best type of blogging here. Is only posting any type of content is the way to be successful?**
***How can I get more engaged in blogging with good performance? Please direct me in the right way possible!***
I am new here.
*>**How can I contact with my favorite author/blogger via steemit exept the reply option?***And as I see most of the time, Persons with higher **SP** gets more opportunity. Even if they post valueless posts,they are getting tons of money out of that.
Even, I haven't learnt any good thing from them.
**So, no Idea how to engage in best type of blogging here. Is only posting any type of content is the way to be successful?**
***How can I get more engaged in blogging with good performance? Please direct me in the right way possible!***
I wish I could help more.....
Nice and innovative to your post, I love to see read and enjoy and can increase the knowledge, appreciation has been divided