To me, the network has changed a lot in the past 6 months. Riches have been obtained, either fairly or unfairly, and this has galvanized a race - a race that has made people more selfish with an increasing pressure on the rewards pool we all share.
It's never been about content
Is what I hear a lot at present, and maybe that is true. Maybe it was only about producing something, anything, to place a vote on and take your rightful stake from the rewards pool each day.
I'd don't think that's always been the case, and I know many that did, and do try to show their proof of brain each day, to produce something that will also interest others. What I do notice though, is an increasing shift of people trying, to those who are not. And in addition to that, an increasing number of accounts (big and small), not offering their votes to others.
The Haejin effect
In the summer of last year, our famous analyst was earning cents on his posts. Consistent and persistent, things started to pick up in the autumn (as did the markets), and things really started to take off. From $2 to $5, to $20, on each of his 8 - 10 posts each day, and without any of his own stake introduced from outside, the crypto-analysts work started paying off.
As the markets went into overdrive late last year, he attracted the vote of a largely silent whale. This vote alone, was adding $100-$200 to his posts, 8-10 times a day. Now, there's not a lot more that can be discussed about this being fair/abuse/right/wrong, but the general voiced consensus was, and still is, is that the rewards are too large. And of course, there is an option to flag, if any person feels this to be the case.
And so the flags came. Individually, collectively, night and day. Steemit staff, Whales, Dust accounts, and recently, accounts who didn't even press the button! Yep even the code has seemingly had a pop.
However, the account carries on doing what they've been doing since the start, producing content, and steadily growing wealthier. However since last winter (in the northern hemisphere), the world 'steadily' is a bit of an understatement. I have not checked the earnings, it is what it is. I do happen to disagree with the rewards size, but that is largely irrelevant to my post today.
The flagging still continues, and I do feel that most of it is for a 'disagreement on rewards' - which is 'OK', as far as the system says so. But in some cases, the whistle-blowers never really got started - And if they did, they gave up quickly to pursue 'other ventures' when they realized efforts seemed fruitless, or not in the best interests of self. There is an obvious exception to this rule, and you shall call him Lord of the Steem.
Going nuclear / going green (with envy)
So the options were, and still are:
- Flag haejin and return rewards to the pool we all share
- Dont flag haejin and reward the accounts producing the content we enjoy
- Dont flag haejin and try to 'keep up'
It's the 3rd option which I see more and more of, and it's this option which I dislike the most out of the three. Those jealous of the weekly income of the crypto-analyst, who are not wanting to use their own stake to return rewards to a shared pool, are now up-scaling efforts to make sure that as much as possible of what is left, is coming to them.
And it's pulling more and more accounts in to do the same.
The first reason is the loss of votes from accounts that have already decided to operate selfishly, and the second is linked in that those accounts now not getting the votes from their once peers, see no other option to 'keep up', but to do likewise.
Dis the Content
So just how do you produce 8 - 10 pieces of quality content as a respected and already established Steem account holder that holds an number of trusted auto-votes, day in day out?
Answer: You dont.
Personally, I can barely produce one blog a day, and the jury is certainly out over each one of those being 'quality'.
But anyway, the quality seemingly has to come down, to boost output.
The 'risk' here is a loss of respect amongst peers, and following on from that a loss of votes, manual and auto. (If you have the stake to support yourself though, who cares about those votes?)
Well assuming the other votes don't matter, and hey, you might pick up some new friends, reputation amongst peers might, so the best method (that I have sadly observed), is to create an alternate account.
Or 2.
Or 4.
4 Is good. 4 accounts producing two pieces of lower quality content a day, receiving two full votes. Add those to the 1 or 2 votes you give yourself each day, and it's a wrap. The added bonus here is that you don't even need to respond and build a community around those accounts, just produce the content, (yes meme's are good) don't engage, and slap your vote on it.
Keeping up with the hae-joneses
It's an English idiom, so i'm going to ruin what joke there is by dropping this in:
Keeping up with the Joneses" is an idiom in many parts of the English-speaking world referring to the comparison to one's neighbor as a benchmark for social class or the accumulation of material goods. To fail to "keep up with the Joneses" is perceived as demonstrating socio-economic or cultural inferiority. source
In the real world though, you would hope that those striving to keep up with the Joneses, are not doing so to the detrimental effect of everyone else in the community. (But maybe they are, and then what else can I expect to happen here?)
Producing low quality content on alt. accounts looks bad on you, and it looks bad and is lowering the moral of the community.
Be happy with the wealth you have and help bring abundance to our network. Please?
Cheers
Asher @abh12345
I am one half of the @steemcommunity witness - Find out more about our project here
Great write up I appreciate your unbiased view.
I wonder how many people were upset with haejin 10 post per day when it was only worth $1 total? Now am I in complete agreement about how he goes about things no, but at the same time who am I to tell someone else how to spend their money?
If anyone takes the time to build an empire, they technically are not obligated to build the next person.
This platform gives back what you put in, go through my past post and look at how many $.01 post I have. It all changed when I put the money and now I reap rewards from my investment.
So I ask this question, how much money can you expect to withdraw from a bank you never deposited into?
Looks like you have been through some difficulties. I'm upset I have had some of my comments flagged but that must have really sucked when starjuno killed some of your posts.
Meh not really.
Cheers :)
Zero. (and same answer to the last question) But at this point 'disagreement of rewards' is not in play and so the number of posts is not important?
I agree with you. No-one is under obligation to help others, I'm just not a huge fan on the standing on people to grab onto the coat-tails of someone you don't really need to.
I mentioned it in comment to him when he was averaging 20 dollars a day after watching it from 10ish. I suggested it looked spammy and was attacked for it. A few weeks later, rancho stepped in.
Yeah as I say, opinons on that are well versed, and I too see the rewards as high.
What I'm not doing though is attempting to spam this BC 8-10 times a day, whilst throwing my own stake via alt accounts at this 'work', and pretending to be a solid witness - and neither is haejin.
I had to unfollow at that point in time. My feed was totally flooded. Thing is, whatever we won't tolerate when it gets bigger and bolder, we shouldn't tolerate that when it's little or inconsequential.
For me, based on the numbers, 20-30 was my limit as to the value. If he went to 4 posts a day combining them for 100 each, it would have been fine. 2000 a day for only being accurate in a bull market is pathetic. I can get the same strike rate now.
Totally unapologetic, that one. Even the bulls he's predicting can't get his followers $2k in a day, unless they bought shitloads of it, and frankly, who'd be that stupid, when everyone knows it's all speculations anyways.
Thing is to look away and become busy supporting the ones who are actually adding value to the blockchain. He's got something coming. I'm sure.
Onto other things though. I'm all in for friendships and engagement on here. how do I contact you? Discord?
Let me rephrase, I don’t like the thought of anyone feeling entitled to more if they haven’t put in the work.
I guess I see it like this. If someone went to school for 8 years, and worked their way up a companies ladder be obligated to buy lunch daily? As they are taking s larger portion of the conpsnies payroll.
To be honest, my post isn't about haejin, or the people like you who have invested heavily here.
It's more about the production of poor content, merely to form a circle around to wack one off to, in order to try and 'keep up' with someone, who may have been to school for 8 years :)
You mean, we can't do a "free-to-play to Legend" attempt (Hearthstone reference) on Steemit? Well, that's a shame.
At least, this whole ordeal creates great drama that's worth its popcorn.
This is why Steemit is doomed.
Any system will be "gamed", or exploited. The current pace of Reward Pool ripoffs will only accelerate. I'd even argue that there are more bots than humans on the platform -- and the accounts that ARE controlled by a human are numerous for the purpose of maximizing returns.
It doesn't take a genius to see that even with Steemit's "gating" or capital controls that prevent instant cash-out, this is a feedback loop that will eventually overwhelm it entirely.
It isn't just this haejin guy, or any single one -- there's an entire constellation of grifters siphoning blood from Steemit's cooling corpse with no regard to long-term viability.
Welcome to the decline.
Well stop giving them the straws.
I don't support them, I've even fought people that have ripped off content and parade it on this platform -- look at my next-to-last post in my blog. Its all there.
The ones giving straws are the Steemit developers, blithely ignoring all the problems until it is too late.
https://steemit.com/@crypto2crypto/comments
Self upvoting your comments is scumbaggery
Do explain the difference between a self upvote and using a bot to upvote? I’ll wait.
You are worse than Haejin, at least he writes ten blogs a day. How is this comment worth 14 dollars?
Because I voted for it. That’s how.
Is this worth 14 dollars?
How many times you do that in one day? How much are you taking out of the reward pool?
It really doesn't matter what H posts as he will get a massive vote anyway. That's 99% of his income. Most people won't dare to flag him as he will attack them. He really doesn't care about making friends. He's got far more followers than me, but I can get better comments.
I still come to Steemit for good content and some people seem to enjoy my posts. I could just self vote and buy votes, but I'm not that bothered about getting rich and those things feel wrong to me. I want to see Steemit change the world
Glad you're here, on the good side :)
This comment my friend; deserves to be
Aggrandized
#aggrandizethiscomment
LMAOOO!! you are hilarious
This is what we need more of, a balanced conversation about the issues at hand not distorted with superfluous virtue signaling.
You know what has me feeling a little down, did you see the bloomberg interview with Ned? It's short... watch it, when he gets asked about poor content making it to the trending page, watch his body language, don't just listen to the words.
Something has to give, I'm with @mattclarke on this one we really did f it up in the fork.
I saw that too @meno... and I have seen a few comment exactly on that point as well!
Cheers.
Is there a link to a video of him where its not the graphics while he's being asked that question? :)
upvote!
presactly!
She was leading the conversation so shed light on the inner workings and then she delivered the sledge hammer to the temple.
I had to laugh... I know I should not, but I'm sure he did not see that coming.
I can’t agree more.
We can’t survive alone but we also can’t always think that your followers will upvote everypost day in and day out. Because they just can’t all be good.
@acesontop wrote a great post about it today based in the fact that I did loose a dolphin as follower because I did start to post about different topics.
People should use their votes on the content they do think that are worth it and not because they will fear that other will stop upvoting their posts.
I do believe that lots of people do upvote Haejin posts to score some curation awards! That’s also what I did in the beginning but I don’t do it anymore!
People are here to make a bit of cash, me too! But I'm also here because i like the place, I like the idea, and I see the potential.
The race to chase the ace is helping none of us though, and the final result could well be meltdown :/
That’s true if is like biting in the hand that does feed you!
I have to agree that a lot of people do it to get curation rewards and with the hope that the author or one of his circle jerkers will upvote their comment or maybe even a blog of theirs.
I have this one person in my community that loves the TA and things that it adds value to her because she uses it to trade.
Yet to me it means nothing and the absurd amount is just nuts.5-7% of the total pool wow. Then their no engagement nothing put back into the system and is just a cash cow.
I had to roll my eyes when she was defending him to newbies that we should emulate him and that their is no need for dramatic posts, or stories or engagement. Money is what moves Steem. I just shaked my head and closed the chat. People idolize him and would like to game the system as well as he does.
It really puts me at odds.
I also have no interest in TA because in my opinion sentiment is still the driving force of the cryptomarkets!
I also don’t mind if people do upvote their own post if they interact and also upvote post and comments from others. Anything below %5 self votes is acceptable for me!
I just did unfollow him and trying to stay away from it!
I try to keep a positive view in Steem and focus my energy on the people who deserve my attention!
I decided to leave my niche and it is showing. 1 dolphin and 1 minnow decided to unfollow me in the past 3 day but, while I do find it a loss, I now have more interaction on my posts than I ever had.
If this will slow down my progress on the Steem blockchain than I will accept this situation with a smile!
and he is at a whopping 92.17% according to http://steemocean.com/voter/haejin
Yeah me and my brother used to follow him in twitter and saw that as many as he had good TAs he had as much as bad ones because the Cryptomarket is all about the movement of whales and their whims.
Sort of like Steemit hahahha
I believe that there is a steemit account who does a simulation how much money you would have lost or gained if you would have followed al his advice.
Don’t know the account anymore!
Oh man I would love to see that hahahaha maybe some beer might jog your memory!
Its @truthtrader
He havent posted in a while, but i think he os working on comparing haejin calls to coins chosen at random.
If you check my account you'll see haejin was the first person I followed here on steemit. It seems a little weird now, because I don't even open his posts now.
I am not exactly sure how I came about knowing his account on steem and as a newbie he seemed pretty big deal to me here.
The problem now is that I don't find his analysis unique in anyway. Have no idea what to think when posts with similar or even better analysis than his get zero views (not that view button exists anymore).
As you say that one man alone is not a threat but the problem is what he has come to represent. I don't not think flagging is doing anything to stop this. I think the best idea still is to go about up voting content that we prefer.
i have to say ive stayed out of the flag wars, however, i too was new and got support from his group. it was very quiet and then went away.
he never flagged me, but the more i looked at bernie as a hero, with time i saw he flagged more minnows than haijin ever did. the more research i dug up, the more i saw there are many hypocrites and many more vying for attention to get more and more whale votes. this is a game to so many people. also money for those in dire need. some people will do anything for attention. after 160 days on this platform, isnt it reasonable to conclude that finding good people through the drama and ensuring quality of our own blogs the best we can do? whales got there for a reason, they invested early.
neutrality is key in this game. getting flagged has worked out for some and ruination for others. slippery slope indeed.
I commented and voted on haejin's posts in the beginning, but my post today isn't really about how I feel about his content and is more about how others have acted since his boom :)
I wouldn't really have a problem with high earnings post if it was competing on a level playing field with other similar content. For me the problem arises because some other guys I follow do a much better analysis and don't get a tenth of the rewards this other user is raking in.
Would to you share their profiles to see what they are about?
I always thought Haejin's TAs ignored sentiment where too mathematical and took into account those fake wick peaks that are either bots testing for ceiling or confused traders hitting the wrong button.
Anyway i am always looking for good TA to watch and learn.
Hi Hash. Totally agree. I know the one you are talking about and he has helped me a lot already. i was worried he was going to give up at one point as he couldn't understand why he wasn't making 0.20 per post.
You did a perfect job up there Ash, it pretty much sums up what I've noticed on here too. Hell if they they couldn't take him down entirely, at least the second option looked good and would have been the best thing to do if anyone had the long-term concern for the platform. Old writers are improving daily, but it seems the votes are getting lower. New members? Well, not so much. The "we can't stop him, So we're gonna act like him" mindset is what they opted for. And it's really sobering. Getting new extra accounts to do the dirty job seems to be the "in" thing now for these guys. That way, their main account looks good, and no one knows.
Thanks for the eye opener, Ash.
Epic post! Had to resteem this. Or as you might call it: Thanks for showing your proof of brain again :-)
I agree that the platform (rather: the eco-system) has changed for worse, and here's my take:
No changes are made without changing the algorithm.
You can't force people to post max. X posts per day as a sign of fairness towards the other competitors who're aiming to get their part of the rewards pool.
You furthermore can't force anybody to produce something meaningful, since everybody has a different interpretation of that.
You can't centralize a decentralized environment :-) Whether we can do what the hell we want to do (within the given frame), or not.
You can change the algorithm (reward curve) and make selfishness, aggrandizement and other trendy stuff become unprofitable, thus unpopular. You can e.g. delete the trending page and solve one of the biggest problems of the platform. You can do things. Or you can sit and watch and even confirm on TV that your application has a quality problem...
Steem doesn't have a quality problem! Steem does have a structural problem. There are tons of high quality posts submitted on Steem every single day. They're just not visible to most of the community members.
But I think we've talked about all this a hundred times already :-)
Thanks Marly!
We have spent a lot of time discussing the above.
The algorithm can change, and so can people - in an instant if they wish!
Pretty sure its only the 2nd that has changed in the past 6 months, and not for the best :/
Yes, an early adopter of Steemit, that recognizes that there is a lot of good quality content. I know what my content is, but I am not here to really "create" content, I am here to view the content. I am an audience member, a one person nielsen rater, a voter and a commenter on content. I find a lot of content on steemit that is worthwhile. Yes there is a lot of crap, but that just means I click away and find something else.
The greed issue on steemit really does not need to be a drastic overhaul. Fixing the greed issue that Asher has brought up only requires 3 changes, those 3 changes however will never be implemented because they have the potential to end the greed cycle.
But I won't be holding my breath for any of those changes. At least more and more of these, here's a problem I see, what can we do to get a discussion going about it post.
Linear rewards.
The steem white paper spells out exactly why we needed quadratic and what would happen if we went linear; and it could not have been more accurate.
I guess i had to jump in on this... Quadratic rewards would have made the original reward pool raping far..... far worse than it is now. if not for the linear rewards, people dont have a chance at having a share at the rewards pool because it would have all been taken away by the silent whale.
Now im not saying that anyone should have any rights on the rewards pool, no one is entitled to anything here but i would imagine the whole rewardpoolrape drama would have much more devastating effect on user adoption had HF19 Linear Reward not been implemented. Imagine a new user coming in and seeing short TA posts making tens of thousands a piece and everyone else gets virtually nothing. It would have been tens of thousands in rewards PER POST had it not been LR. whats happening now might be subjectively unfair but had it been quadratic rewards even i will say its objectively unfair.
In the end of the day it boils down to human nature. No amount of engineering and maths can solve away human nature. which historically had been the one thing that ruins everything for everyone.
Steem is ultimately still an experiment and it will continue to change and improve. Im not saying "get it while the going's good" but im pretty sure this whole thing might simmer down in the future as things balance out. I dont know what you think about him but i think @yallapapi hit it in the nail with whats happening with the whole drama
You know much more than I regarding rewards algorithms I'm guessing, but it's the point above that is just as important.
Thanks for stopping by!
actually i dont know too much of the technicals as well. Although we dont need technical prowess to recognize that alot of problems on the platform we see are human factors that will never be stamped out unless things goes fascist. Even so i rather be a part of a decentralized social/content platform than one controlled by a single entity. For that, i have nothing to complain about.
I disagree entirely, and remember before hf20. No bidbots. High quality posts. Very little self-upvoting.
Then it happened. I saw people rejoicing that their upvote had jumped from x to y, and they could finally support their friends.
Now, all I hear is how unfair it is that everyone only supports their friends.
I discussed this in detail - here
TLDR; quadratic rewards means the bigger a live payout, the more influence you have over it's movement, up OR down.
Your current, 50c vote would be worth 5c if you're upvoting a mate's low quality post, or $5 if you're downvoting some bidbotty spam at the top of the trending page, which is what people did; so much so, that people didn't even try voting crap up into Trending (they knew it'd be dragged straight back down by people who saw it as rubbish, and wanted to return those rewards to the pool)
Now, everyone knows their vote is worth 50c, and they take the rational approach.
Instead of downvoting rubbish, they just upvote themselves or their friends.
I hope you agree with me that quality is subjective, otherwise it's hard to continue our discussion.
We had other problems before HF19 too. Unbudging trending page, minnows making next to nothing unless whalevote.
of all my time prior to HF19, i never seen the possibility of a minnow gaining the limelight despite making Youtuber quality content. Minnow's only shot at making was either rubbing a whale belly or getting noticed by Curie.
It'll never be perfect i think. people will always complain no matter what and however steem is designed, there will always be ways to game it. Even so i'm steadfast in saying HF19 brings greater good than evil.
Yes, quality is subjective.
With SMTs on the way, and Dan building a competitor on EOS, not to mention any forks of either, I'm sure we'll get plenty of opportunity to see all sorts of different settings play out in reality.
For example, Ned appears to be making account level voting an option for SMT's and/or quadratic rewards.
Those who lean toward fairness (whatever that is) can launch an SMT with account voting and linear rewards, and those who lean toward quality can have stake weighted voting and quadratic rewards.
Then we can race our preferences against each other and you'll get to see how right I am ;p
Yep, the proof has certainly been in the pudding.
We don't all have to be dicks though eh? :)
hahahaha nicely said!
Wow! So well written! Thank for for this article. I couldn’t agree more. They way the system is set up, it encourages quantity of content over quality and lots of self voting. I hope it changes, as I miss reading awesome articles.
Really enjoyed the read. Awesome content 😆🤣
Thanks Karen!
Yes this is the system, but we don't have to follow it though right? :)
Glad to see you and TS having fun at the Saturday/Sunday markets - get him a can of red-bull and some FOOOOD before you start filming next time huh? :D :D
If steem rises in value people would earn more SBD's on each post. I think people focus too much on haejin and not enough on the problem of steem's low value.
It is all well and good to try to discourage this abusive behavior. However, if the Steem rewards system incentivizes this activity and gives no option for recourse then we have 3 options:
I have chosen option 3. I cannot change the protocol myself so option 1 won't do. I have tried flagging content but I am only taking pennies off $100. Instead, I make an effort to find and follow better quality accounts so I can spent my upvotes on promoting them. I think if enough of us start supporting each other we can start to eat into the reward take of the reward abusers. We can build a bigger building without tearing theirs down but we can only do it together.
I think that's the right approach for a minnow. 1 is for the Witnesses and Whales, and seeing some of those have opted for option 4 (my post content), I think just carry on as you are, bringing the light to those that deserve it.
Cheers!
I like the idea of my 2 penny upvotes being considered "bringing the light". Very poetic!
The next best thing to do. Thanks.
I think a big part of the problem is that there's a clear issue with rewards imbalance and the rewards just being way too high at the upper end, and the people holding the most power not wanting to acknowledge it because they feel entitled to receive those rewards since they were early adopters and have put a lot of time and love into this platform and have taken the risk by keeping their STEEM vested. I'm not really trying to make a comment about merit and who deserves what, as much as talking about the overall stability of the platform and its internal economy. It's just not in the power holders' interest to acknowledge issues and work to fight them. There are certainly power holders here who DO acknowledge it and work to combat it, and I'm not trying to minimize their hard work and accomplishments, but the imbalance is making it very difficult, if not impossible, to change things.
There are no easy answers to this @abh12345... perhaps the thing we — and folks in general — forget it that there are many different reasons why people come to Steemit, and somehow we have to figure out a way for them to live side by side, if this community is to grow and thrive.
Some people just want to blog and create content, some are here "only for the money" and some are developers who really don't care about the "social bits."
I also think many see this as a "money for nothing" scheme, and it's not. A lot of the people who are reaping large rewards have "skin in the game." Lots of little redfish and minnows with stars in their eyes have nothing in the game and still expect to be well compensated for what often amounts to substandard content.
"Money for nothing" is an old game on the web; it has been around since the first "get paid to write" site launched in 1999.
All we can do is support what we believe in; I believe in the rise of "community oriented" witnesses and people who self-organize into communities where the members help each other.
=^..^=
Indeed. Your content has to be exceptional to earn well if you are not friends with a whale. Dtube/utopian can reward like whales and I think this is a good direction to take if it rewards you seek.
Good point regarding the community focused witnesses, I'm trying 😊
Money only buys you so much in life. Far too many just giant smelly piles of it. It’s kind of odd they want so much of it can’t take it with you in the afterlife.
For me it’s still about the content at least on my side of steemit. While I can’t always do a triple AAA game title review where I sink 60$ into the game. 50-60 hours into playing the game to be able to write what I feel a decent review and then 2 to 10 hours getting any screenshots I’ve missed and writing the thing. I still want put out that kind of content like that. It’s just not my every day kind of content. Posting once every couple of weeks is not enough. For now at least it is cheaper end of games most that I already have. It's not the cutting newest game on market like I want to turn my blog into one day but I see it as a building step.
Many times I’m not putting out my best content because that just not possible to do a few times a week. I think everyone should have a range where they have that really amazing blog every couple of weeks, some wonderful medium quality ones, and yes a filler or two as well. People love to consume content and you need to keep them feed to a certain degree.
I once in a while make content that many would argue should been broken up into 2 or more parts. I feel the opposite when i see people putting out 10 blogs a day. It should just been 1 or 2 at best. While I’m sure many would not be happy if certain people still put out 1 or 2 a day that is a lot less of a hassle then trying milk the system to its max.
At end of the day I’m here for a decent time and to build something. What am I building well I’m not quite sure yet( somewhat.) I can only hope they find that balance for reward pool to reward as well as the ability for entire community to protect it from people who just don’t care. If that means changing rewards in a way so that my $1 posts are now just 10 cent ones then so be it. Far too many seek greed and sadly under the current model it rewards it quite well. Bunch of dishonest crooks trying run the tables at our reward pool. I wish I down voted more but that can come at a very costly price.
Am I being jealousy? I hope not I've even given up on self voting. I often want see the people around me succeed. Sometimes a little to much that I am part of the problem or it ends friendships. I should be spreading my votes out more but I also want make sure the content creators I enjoy stick around. Which is me being greedy at the very least in my own way.
Great reply, I'm totally with you on much of it.
Feeding the consumer content machine is required, I just can't throw fillers out though and do try to meet a level each time.
Many are way past worry what others think though, and this is disappointing to me.
Keep doing what you are doing, let's hope slow and steady wins a race sometime too.
I feel this post on a personal level. I spent some time researching, writing and posting content that I'm interested in, and mulling over which direction to take my personal blog. I've never been a great writer, but here was an opportunity to try it out. Some posts hit a sweet spot, but because I don't do crypto analysis, I resigned myself to getting dollars per post, instead of the tens I thought they might deserve. I go on and off with posting here and being active, you really get what you put in.
I can't hold a grudge against someone who built their profile from the ground up organically. A little envy, a twinge of jealousy, but at the end of the day, if he did the work, he gets what he gets. I've just resigned myself to my bubble, with my topics and the things I like to write and read about. I can only manage myself, and barely manage at that.
I like this "Be happy with the wealth you have and help bring abundance to our network. " Its a great motto.
Thanks Rob, I'm pretty much where you are with regards to it all.
It's certainly the best plan just to focus on your own gig - doing what pleases you will help longivitity and hopefully that will in time allow us all to prosper to some degree. Cheers!
From a total rookie. Witnesses.
Are they doing anything at all about these things? Or anything besides producing blocks etc.
I mean, are there any form of discussions, or upcoming solutions to fix certain problems even a blind man can see?
I do trust you and I know that your intentions are good Asher. I always knew that and that's why it was an easy decision to vote for you as a witness.
What I wonder is, if it is any real use of witnesses in these sort of situations? To me, and probably a bunch of other people, it seems like we're basically "on our own" no matter what happens on Steemit. I get that witnesses are producing blocks and they're doing this and that for the platform to work and all... But the behaviour. The system. The rewards.
Are the witnesses even involved at all?
We are on our own, or at least in the communities that we build and are a part of.
This behavior is 'not uncommon' in the Witness community. And I shall say no more, other than to check your W votes, and check their votes, and the accounts they vote on, and the accounts those accounts vote on :)
When all of this started, I imagined that it wouldn't drag on for long because we have people who are in a position of strength to bring any form of abuse to a halt. Sure, Rancho votes are pretty high, but he's like what? The 2xth most powerful account or something?. While some people are not all in for flagging, they also aren't there for these good contents too, and that includes witnesses, which is sad. If anything, they know a lot more about this whole thing than some of us do, and issues that question the future of this platform should be priority.
My idea of the people who should have done something if they wanted to? Sure. I thought witnesses, and then community minded Whales and minnows, and then the steemit Inc team.
So far, nothing. And I've learned to ignore. I won't stop finding and supporting good content though. That's not gonna happen.
Thanks Asher. It was basically the answer I was expecting, but I'm glad you answered. Now I know for real!
im
feeling the same way as you stated in your comment. i see tons of this goongbon not only with one whale or dolphin or even plankton ... many are turning to greed and if its a true concern the Witnesses need to do something
So disappointing. As a new Steemian I truly work to add quality content which would interest others, connect with community and exchanging ideas and thoughts. Knowing there are those out there who "play the system" is disappointing. Sad to see the negative side. I just hope this doesn't destroy the mission which Steem is trying to achieve!
As an older Steemian, I do and feel the same :) We've not all succumbed to the precious $ yet don't worry, I hope you continue as you are and are happy doing so.
That took awhile to read. The post and all the comments, and I even responded to a few comments, it seemed to me that some people missed the purpose of the post and just went on about mr H. In the 90's the Movie Wall Street, Michael Douglas "Greed is Good", It seems that people still believe that line.
Steemit is one place that nice people can actually succeed. Where playing nice with your friends and neighbors actually pays off. Where interacting with your favorite authors can pay off. Where enjoying a beautiful picture someone took can pay off, There are so many quality post, so many people sharing their content. There is however something missing. Where is the quality content from the people with Reputations over 63? I am all over steemit, I have found a few Authors that I visit on a regular basis for content, but I very very rarely find any content from accounts with more than a 63 REP? Yeah there is the exception, like yours, and a few others but with as much as I travel around steemit you would think that I would see more postings from the "big" guys and gals, it don't happen. So where is the lack of quality?...is it in the new user?...or the early adopters? Greed in the end does pay, but there is a cost. I would rather have someone's trust than someones money.
Yeah I think that happened too - I guess they just read the title? 😊
Fair point that the quality of content does seem to be the inverse of reputation. Newer accounts do produce the best, most original stuff in my opinion too.
I agree that it generally pays to be nice here, and this is a huge plus that keeps me keeping on.
Cheers!
I don't think I have ever tried to keep up, here on Steemit. I know my limitations, lol. But I sure wasted a lot of time trying to understand the bidbots, syndicates, and so many schemes of vote selling and trading. I'm glad I ultimately rejected them all. Now I've unfollowed and stopped voting for folks that stack all those bidbot votes. But seeing long-time folks remove all their earnings, so they can only give a 2-cent upvote has been frustrating, too.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when EOS-based social platforms open up. The code is what allows and even incentivizes the current behavior. The hopeful thing is that means the code can change to foster better behavior, too. It's a shame that HF 20, SMTs, and communities have been so, so slow in coming. But your weekly tracking statistics have helped me stay enthused, by having personal metrics to track and try to beat.
Hey
I too rarely support anyone that has been boosted, I figure they don't need my vote.
Yes the new features are seemingly long overdue, we can only hope that they, and the fork, will encourage better behaviour.
Thanks!
We saw this more last December when people were posting 3-5 posts a day ranging from their breakfast, to their musings on what their cat things, to why I am so great monologue, and a color challenge.
Then they would self vote, slap a couple of hundred bid bots and rinse and repeat every day .the amount that people Earned and cashed out was so large.
It got me thinking if I had the SP would I do the same? Last December hell yeah I'd make that reward pool my bitch!
Yet when I discovered the league of engagement I knew that things could be done more for the benefit of the platform. It helped me realize that operating in the scarcity mindset would be short term and bound to make the platform harder for new people.
It is when I embraced the abundance mindset and saw my votes could be used better in engaging and encouraging.
Sadly not everyone thinks like this. We still see a lot of people going after votes, going after whales and dolphins and hardly paying heed to their fellow minnows why because there is no money there.
It will take more engaged and people with the right mindset to change things around. We only need to start with one and hopefully more people will see the vision and join the cause.
Engagement is the key to changing the mindset, I firmly believe that. It is also key to growing your own SP, your Reputation growth may slow down, but then what does a person's REP number really mean any more?
I don't know why the SP for me started to grow so quickly over the last 3 months, but it has and most of what I do is just go and vote and comment on new users good content. I participate in three groups, and I have Four, (well lately down to two) early adopters post that I read on a daily basis.
My REP is only up 1.6 From Dec. 31st, yet my SP has increased almost 4 fold. So trying to help people get a leg up on steemit for me has helped me. Go figure, being nice on steemit actually does pay.
Which is why programmes like the engagement league Ash is running is probably the best way we could let this people know what social media should be like.
I do see that there is a lot of low quality material being posted daily for the pure reward of it. I typically post every other day and try to encourage good content. I have 1 account. I am fast coming up on a year on Steemit. I have never cashed out prefering to power up with my earnings. I can't say I'm gaining fast, but gain I do.
It does feel like spinning wheels when I see some content that makes a lot of rewards and you see little effort. Nice article.
Thanks @wandrnrose7, it sounds like you have a good approach, and well done for making it to a year 😊
Your welcome and it's hard to believe it has been almost a year! I have grown so much by my participation on Steemit and met amazing writers, artists and musicians. The gains here reach far beyond monetary. Happy Saturday!
I have heard many times, from prominent figures in steemit, that we have to produce content on a daily basis. In fact, I think most people prefer their favorite authors to produce on-topic and relevant content. Instead of posting 'something' everyday.
I see the 'risk' of posting less is only about a smaller chance of content exposure in your follower's feed. i.e. easier to be forgot.
Personally, I will unfollow or remove auto vote only if that author's content is no longer interesting to me. But not because of the less frequent posting.
Just my little opinion...
This post subject has been rattling around in my brain for a while now. I'm glad to see it actually become a post, so I can see how it would play out as a declarative statement, as well as the play it gets in the comments.
It sounds like you've been keeping up with the haejin neighbor and their entourage. Do you have any idea what's supposed to happen starting tomorrow? Big things are promised. Essentially the nullification of both the whale's vote and haejin's, leaving the dust votes.
There aren't that many single users that can do that, so I'm wondering who's been enlisted, or who might be coming from outside, or if it's just a big bluff. Either way, I guess we'll find out.
On the general subjects fleshed out or touched upon in your post:
It is amazing that when someone finds success here, it is defined as too much, especially if that individual isn't giving back very much, if at all.
While at the same time, the critics do all they can to basically 'game' the system, too. All is fair in love and war. While it may be the only way to keep up (given how long it takes to build consensus and how slow those with higher SP are to enter a cause), the moral high ground is lost. Trust is lost. Only the diehard loyalists are left.
I came here to post my stuff. Then, I discovered there were all of these other things that I needed to pay attention to, a lot of it, I frankly don't want to, or even feel is necessary. Yet, here I am, doing it.
It truly isn't about what the other guy is or isn't doing. It's about what I'm doing. What am I doing? Am I creating anything of value? Am I helping to increase value where I find it? Low value shouldn't be rewarded at all. Not by friends, not by self, not by bots, not by anyone and not as a means to fight an otherwise helpful cause. Low value should be left to stagnate and perish. Period.
Hi Glen
I've heard a few rumors, similar to what you say, but until something is visible to me, I won't be entirely convinced.
Maybe the post wasn't put right, but I'm not discussing haejin's or his whale friends actions, as much as I am with regards how many have seen it as a dick measuring contest, and gone 'nuclear' in an attempt to catch up.
It's not had a great effect on moral, or the rewards for the average punter. But again, people are free to choose how they want to act - If I see it though now, I can adjust my witness votes, and talk about it.
As you say, best to keep on with what gives you a reason to turn up each day. Apologies that my posts leave a bad taste sometimes, I do try to mix them up as much as possible!
Cheers :)
Oh, you're not the issue. You're just the messenger. I've been the messenger, a lot, so I'm not about to assign any blame other than to those who are responsible for making things difficult around here. For whatever reasons. So no worries on my end. Keep pumping out the posts. They inform your positions on things, positions that I find myself echoing more and more. :)
Sometimes I feel no comment is better than a spam comment, but that seems to be all the time I have for nowadays. I did enjoy watching Ned's interview last night on Bloomberg, especially how he glossed over his answer to what is deemed quality content. A public relations response through and through.
Some days, I have to question why I bother with Steemit. I'm not a blogger and enjoy the community aspect of this platform. Plus, I would like to earn enough for my daily cup of coffee one day. Truly! However, my sarcasm shines through when I see some idiotic posts make it to trending.
I hope people will start paying attention to the issues on here, but even still, that might not even make a dent.
A short direct comment is appreciated by me, makes me feel less bad about my short replies - i just cant give Glen-type responses!
Trending is a write-off, don't even look!
I thought Ned did ok on Bloomberg personally, he knows what do say and you do need a good chunk of that as a CEO - won't last a minute in front of those TV vulture types otherwise!
Ah, another content consumer, Why do you think they ignore us @beeyou? Most of the talk about change is coming from the content producers, and the I want my money too crowd. Maybe we should start a war with both of them.LoL I know there are more consumers than just us on steemit.
You have totally spoke my mind, I've been here for like 10 or eleven months and I saw how everything changed. The haejin problem turned into a butterfly effect making a disaster with the flag war and the selfishness/dont care response, in my opinion this is gonna be an endless problem if a big whale don't try to put things together here. Second thing I really felt alike was the content issue, quality, and even if it really never was about the content. I can make a list about how many things I learnt thanks to steemit, from video editing, to have a better writing, and even to socialize more and more. As you said, I don't think it was always like that, so negative and greedy, but the high numbers in the marker are hard to resist for some greedy users, people take a lot of time to realize that in a well organized and fair community is more probably to be successful than a bunch of selfish greedy individuals acting by themselves, you earned my vote for you as a witness with this post man, best thoughts of the week I read here, by far.
Thank you very much for the comment and the witness support :D
Totally agree with this, and hoping more people tag a long with this approach in time...
Well written post, describes a lot of things I, as a relative newbie” did not even know about. But those who rose to stardom during the “Good times” can generally sit back and continue to take it in (from looks of it). I have tried to produce decent content and post at least 4-6 times per week but finding consistent followers is a major struggle and other than a few random posts catching a whale groups attention, I’m happen to generate between $1-2 per post, thanks to a couple of generous followers. But if one has a regular job and a family or other life outside steemit, it is very difficult to produce more than one or two short posts per day. Steemit continues to generate frustration just from the lack of recognition of decent posts. And the inability to really connect with others as a plankton or minnow by limits on voting volume.
I’m done, I enjoyed your post though, thanks for sharing.
I understand your frustrations, and you are certainly not alone.
Time plays a big role, and as you say, with a life to manage outside of here, it's very tough to network and produce content at a level that gains traction.
Thank you for your comments 😊
Great article @abh12345. One of the first post I saw when I started in Dec was #berniesanders rambling on about #haejin. I saw a few more that mentioned his content was crap. I didn't know what to think being so new. I viewed a few posts and it seemed like a copy and paste job with some pictures thrown in. Still not too up on crypto(even though I understand the basics)but what I did notice that I did understand all of his votes were the same people and a good portion had xx at the end of their names. So I figured they were fake accounts he was using to upvote himself. Which if I have read some other articles correctly, that is one of the main issues. I really consider this a whale war. mainly due to the fact the flagging has gotten to be malicious. #haejin had started flagging posts by people who spoke out against him in some of bernie's posts. I think issue should be taken. Agree that one of the worst characteristics of him is the fact he doesn't upvote anyone. I think it was a post you had done showing witness activity and to see how little he contributes to the community and how much of the reward pool he gets, he should lose % for not upvoting. I could be totally off base here.
bernie has done the same thing, even worse he flags planks and minnows. such a hard issue really. no one has been innocent in this. i see planks, minnows and dolphins flagging too. taking sides is rough work.
It is and I do remember that happening, thank you for reminding me. I think that's where everything is completely out of hand. I don't think either are right. It seems personal from them and I have seen postes where bernie has dared him to come after him because he'd just upvote himself. Just crazy.
i'm with you on that 100 percent.
There is so much truth in what you are saying here and I have picked up on a lot of it myself. Sometimes I feel a bit despondent that people seem to believe that this type of behaviour is the only way. I battle to produce something decent everyday and would much rather leave it for another day than post something I'm not proud of. For me I just keep doing what I believe in, which is to manage my account and support with as much integrity as I would in my day to day life. In my opinion this pays off much better in the long run and atleast I didn't compromise any of my beliefs in the process.
It should be the way, and I think as a new account this is the best approach - without a large stake to throw at your own rubbish, it's got to be seen as valuable to others.
Integrity is the slow but steady road, good on you :)
Will you be jumping ship in June is my question? as it seems a lot will, then what happens on the sinking ship? if it is already "every man for himself" now, it will only get worse in June. And the
Made me laugh, as I have some idea who you are referring to.
Certainly not at present, I'll be holding on at least until I see what SMTs do!
I agree that option 3 is the worst of the 3 and where we are at right now. It's a race towards the top for $ and a race to the bottom for everything else. And there are still so many great people here doing great things, some luckily on someones autovote and some going unnoticed. In any case, it's a crazy interesting place to be.
Ain't that the truth, we continue :D
"Be happy with the wealth you have and help bring abundance to our network. Please?"
lol thanks, I knew you'd come round :)
Option 2 is the best one, by a long long way... About time everyone realised that. Ignore 'shitposts' you don't like and vote on posts you do like. You keep hearing about 'quality posts'. Yes there should be quality, but that is a very subjective thing. Who decides what is quality, and what isn't? That's what voting is for.. So in reality, the voter gets to choose what is quality. You can find a lot of garbage, that gets support it does not deserve...a lot. Let's not bullshit around, everyone knows why! The flag wars IMHO just make it all worse. Why? Because everyone is concentrating more on 'stopping' someone, rather than actually producing themselves or helping to discover new talents that deserve more attention. Not only that, it starts turning into EGO wars. Some people, are willing to sacrifice the pawns, to win their ego wars. I can see greed from both sides of this argument, even though one side is a hell of a lot worse than the other.
@abh12345 - I and many agree with you. You are preaching to the choir and the people who need to change haven't and won't change.
The problem of Haejin and others , and the imbalance of wealth and wealth distribution creates all kinds of problems. It isn't just the content, but how many large upvotes one can get. People do get discouraged and quit. I think it was @arcange that produced a graph that showed that 80% of Steemit accounts are inactive.
So what can be done? It's up to the people who set the rules and do the coding to make the changes so that the distribution is more fair. It is my understanding that this is the responsibility of the witnesses. So I encourage everyone to vote for witnesses who will take action to make the changes.
I've just read the post and about one-fifth of the comments. Great stuff. I would have read more, but I only have so much time to engage in reading and curating.
I feel like you are very much right. It was one of the comments here that said something about how Steemit was at the beginning. I think that at that time, people were more critical about what content was being upvoted. I also feel like it could be Steemit itself, who eventually destroys the community by not recognizing and addressing the problems.
I wrote an article about what I think is rotten in the world of Steemit. You can find it here. I am interested in what you have to say about my claims.
Writing this, I've just got an idea for the perfect next post, so after I finish I might go and write it down.
Thanks for dropping by and commenting, glad to have perhaps provided another spark :D
Hi abh. there are lots of Jones's going under the radar. They are selfish and all about self gain and the groups they have formed is probably the same size as Haejin's payout.
I completely agree, and my radar is overly busy, sadly.
I will steer you in the direction of the big one i found. Will let taraz know in chat tomorrow evening.
Well put Asher - "One Does Not Simply Post About Haejin" - well thought through - a considered and positive message. High Quality is the way forward!
ha :) Thank you sir!
What does that mean? My account might be flagging someone without my knowledge? That’s what is sounds like... 😳
Have you been living under a rock dear? :D
https://steemit.com/steem/@abh12345/utopian-io-hacked-keys-are-safe-i-ve-changed-mine-anyway-small-voting-break
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@utopian-io/utopian-io-hack-may-3rd-may-4th-2018-no-wallets-or-keys-compromised
Looks like I have!
Or in a peaceful bubble [...doesn't follow Heajin, doesn't follow Utopian, checks Steemit only every other day... ;))]
I thought you liked a bit of crypto analysis? :)
Emphasis on "a bit" ;) Not 8 times a day, ha ha
I used to follow him but it was a bit too much. So I just unfollowed. I thought other people might really appreciate his posts, but for me it was too much. I didn't really care about his earnings or realized that it might hurt the reward pool, and just thought, good for him.
Fair enough :)
You still support his work i see? Not judging of course!
Oh you're right. I have to review this. I don't mind supporting someone even if I don't follow them, but still believe they are of service to others or the network.
But OK, that's where opinions differ right now, and I don't know how exactly it is hurting me or others if he makes a lot of money.
Have you made a post that explains the math of that? (If you have, remember I'm living under a rock :))
I'm generally really happy for people to make a lot of money. So if he earns $1,000 a day with 8 posts, how is this different from someone who earns $1,000 with one post a day (is there one?), and how does that hurt the rest of us? And is it all down to our judgment of what is "hard work" and "deserved" or not?
If the reward pool is being drained by that, what does that mean for me as an author. Will your 100% upvote to me be worth less in terms of STEEM/SBD? Or how exactly would I notice?
there are plenty of people who do it, and many who are “well thought “ of in the community. some even on your weekly list. more than one account and over bottong or poo posting. its a sad thing really. just look at many of the new introduce myself blogs that have at least 4 bots on them upvoting themself making $60-$100. many have risen quickly proclaiming crypto genius, meanwhile raping the system. its been going on for a few months now.
people on my weekly list do what? have alts in which they upvote excessively? I'l like to know who :)
This post isn't about bid-bots though really.
opening 2-4 more accounts, isn't that what this post is about? i am verbalizing the atrocity i am seeing when someone does open the 2-4 accounts and its still part of making crazy steem and posting a meme and bad quality content to boot. i could have sworn you mentioned that above. there are those that are "curating" by major trails on separate accounts as well and getting applauded for their ingenuity.
there are people who comment amuck and CJ all day long, most of their upvotes are coming from their friends and they barely read the content.
seems to be a commonality on steemit and one i have seen over and over in the 160 days i've been on this platform. if there was a way for me to assist in cleaning this platform i would totally lend a hand. for now, what can we do?
@haejin effect has made a block hole on utopian server too....the recent auto voting done using DB leaks from utopian server are used to downvote @haejin. Pretty interesting stuff that whole steemit is aginst a single person...what about others who also raking mullass$$...
@abh12345 thank to all these issues atleast it lead me to lookout for @haejin and ibfound him very friendlier..atleast he replied on my query....👍
I would be so sure the utopian thing had anything to do with haejin.
My feeling is that this is not so much about Haejin, but more about the conflict of interest some of the sacred 20 may have when looking for software solutions. The flagging wars, although noble in intent, are stalemated pissing contests.
The 'sacred 20' huh, I do not know these people but this sounds interesting!
The Sacred 20 is my pet name for the top rated witnesses who get to vote on implimenting new hard forks of the steem code.
No idea about the specifics of this case. But if this problem is about the analysis of a crypto trader, the crucial question about whether he deserves his payouts is if his analysis promises success.
Does it? Well, in that case he might be a good analyst.
Or is he lousy? Well, over time users will realize his limitations and go elsewhere with their upvotes.
I think hes a bit hit and miss. There are certainly enough rolls of the dice going on 😊
Thanks for the reply. In theory this should have the consequence that his payout go down over time and relative to other analysts who do a better job in rolling the dice:-)
Thank you for ending on a good note...
"Producing low quality content on alt. accounts looks bad on you, and it looks bad and is lowering the moral of the community."
We forward to building a community that will be what we will be truly be proud of, as we've always been while trying to persuade others to join. That we will be able to answer questions bordering on the state of morality of the community with a clear conscience.
Well done @abh12345, how's health? I hope you're much better now
Thanks for your kind comments 😊 I'm feeling much better now, thank you.
I will repeat what I have said on Steemit before. I just keep plodding along doing my own thing. I am not here for the money. If I was, I would have left long ago. I am here for the engagement, for the friendships, for the knowledge and the sharing.
Good for you, i am glad you are here and that this is your approach.
Thanks.
Good stuff! I have resteemed this article for future reference and to help others be up to date on what's happening here.
Thank you very much!
Stay focus and do what you do the best. If someone likes to give the rewards to him, they have their own reason for been doing so.
Don't worry, I'll be sticking around and try my best :)
i agree! that's all i feel we can do. do what we came here to do and that is make the friends we do make and write what we wish. karma is a killah!
Hi,
I am fairly new to steem... wo I am wondering why a whale like ranchorelaxo is only voting for Haejin. In the last 7 days he votest 70 times on Haejins posts. He almost voted for nobody else.
Also, Haejin got a 300k-Delegation from ranchorelaxo. So whats up with him? Doesnt anyone know him?
I guess he likes charts 😊 I don't know the details here, sorry.
I think number 2 option is the best, since flagging him has not made any impact, it just seems like valuable steem power is been wasted flagging him.
Money users have made every person think he lost jealousy
But there are people who support people beautifully
Really a very good article published well