I appreciate all the hard work you have done here! It is wonderful to get discussions going about the Bible, as long as they are discussions and not "I'm right - you are wrong" arguments. Those arguments let the world see division where there should be unity. I really do look forward to following along and also listening along with @verbal-d.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV.)
After 52 years of being a Christian, I have heard every interpretation of the END TIMES, so this one is not new to me. I honestly do not believe that anyone has a true handle on "THE TRUTH". One advantage of having moved a lot within 3 different countries, is that I have by necessity attended different denominations, each with credible "PROOF" of their interpretations of scripture. We attend a Calvary Chapel now, where the Bible is read from beginning to end from the pulpit, and the Bible studied. It has been very refreshing for me to not have to deal with sermons based on a single verse from scripture. No claim is made to a handle on the truth, other than that of the simple TRUTH of the GOSPEL. Our pastor will often say, "This is what I think this passage means," but he always acknowledges that there are others who see things differently about such things as The Tribulation, Predestination etc.
Sadly, I have seen too many arguments arise from people claiming that they have a mastery of "THE TRUTH." I have been reading the Bible cover to cover, over and over about 24 years now. I can't count how many times now that I have read all the way through to Revelation, using different translations because no translation is 100% correct in some minor things. They are just TRANSLATIONS. The more I read, the more I can see how different people interpret things differently. There is a case for every argument, and I could likely take the side of every argument because I can see where they are all coming from.
I like the NLT translation's wording of 2 Timothy 2:14: Remind everyone about these things, and command them in God’s presence to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless, and they can ruin those who hear them. (By the way, if you speak more than one language you will know that no language can ever be translated literally, so arguments about the KJV versus the NLT etc. are futile arguments over words. LOL!) Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic can be studied to an extent, but not until we get to heaven will we know the whole story.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (KJV)
1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[a] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely. (NLT)
That being said, my own conclusion is that there is a difference between the tribulations that we all face and the Great Tribulation to come. But then again, that comes from weighing up all the different interpretations, and it is just my conclusion from my own reading of Scripture. We all have the Holy Spirit to guide us, so is He guiding me better than He is guiding you, or guiding you better than He is guiding me? I don't believe so. Reading the Bible draws us near to God, and that is His intention. He wants a relationship with us. Hopefully these studies will serve to make Christians read the Scripture for themselves and will help them to draw closer into a relationship with Him. Thanks, and Blessings!
I will never make the claim to understand any part of The Bible, because as you said "...no language can ever be translated literally, so arguments about the KJV versus the NLT etc. are futile arguments over words." and if I'm can't be 100% positive on the accuracy of one translation over another than I can't ever be 100% positive of the accuracy of my understanding either. God bless, have an awesome day! :D
The amazing thing though, is that every translation is clear about the basic truths of the Bible, and the gospel is the same message wherever you read it.
Yes I agree with that, they all have the same basics, but there are also, differences, which shouldn't exist, but I think most of the differences are mainly of language/interpretation of other languages and trying to get the closest word/phrase of the language its being translated into. I might be wrong, and am willing to hear others opinions on this, but that is what I believe currently.
As Christians, we better be prepared for the possibility of going through the tribulation. I believed in a pre-trib rapture because of teachings I heard on the radio, until @bluerthangreen showed me scripture verses that indicated the rapture could just as easily take place at the end. We see many verses urging Christians to be faithful to the point of death. Our ancestors went through things like this in the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. Who are we to think we will avoid it? God has not appointed us to wrath, but He has appointed us to a measure of suffering. And that suffering will do its good work in us, if we allow it to.
I'm very moved with this interpretation.. God bless you.
I want to contribute my little knowledge "God way can't be defined by knowledge of men" there are many ways tribulations mentioned in the Bible but the way of God is beyond human comprehension. To me I think most important is for one's to renew his or her relationship with God no doubt we are in " End Time" the Jerusalem was announced by Trump some days has much related to Biblical prophecy now it's has come to fulfilment. Except a man in the spirit of God "Holy Spirit / Hope Ghost" before he can understand the " Words of God" in book of Romans " Bible Describe Holy Spirit as Interpretation spirits, Comforter , Counselor etc. God is spirit no knowledge of man describe about God"
In conclusion it will be wise move for us to renew our relationship with God " Jesus Christ say "In life you shall see tribulations but be of good cheer I have overcome the world" Apostle Paul say "Nothing can celebrate me from the love of Christ" not famine, not persecution , not poverty or anything should celebrate us from God .. we need the grace of God daily , we are sojourn here home is "Heaven" Stephen was stoned to death because of tribulations but Despise this he never compromised yet he say "Forgive them" Disciples of Jesus Christ dead a horrible death yet they stand even at the points of death"
Some of you will read about Christians being hugely persecuted by Bokoharam in Northern Nigeria. Many stand with Jesus and were killed because of Gospel. Let pray each day for "Grace and Mercy of God" for it is written " I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy upon and compassion on whom I will have compassion upon" Knowledge of man can't defined way of God.....
The Problems will have now in this contemporary World is that "Man philosophy is taking control of the Church not the "Spirit of God" this is the deception of evil. Let everyone of us be preparing and renew our relationship with God" let pray for Spirit of God "Holy Spirit" in our lives, else deception of devil and human philosophy will lead to destruction.
I pray the Spirit of God helps you to interpret his Words.
A good read and video for religion savvy folks and for those who are willing to learn...keep it up my dear wild man and keep steeming.
Today , I wrote about Why the Rich and Poor need cryptocurrencies -feel free to see it when you are free. More success to you and keep it coming!!!!!
This is an excellent post! Digging deeper into the scriptures is where His Truth is revealed! I can't wait to go over all these scriptures. The devil is literally in the details... and most seem not to want to dig deep enough to get to the semantics of the language and it's usage. Thanks for all you to Pops! God Bless & Keep You and Your Family! =)
Posting yang sangat bagus.. Senang melihatnya. Terima kasih sudah berbagi pengalaman dan perbandingan informasi.lanjutkan karya anda semoga
Sukses selalu untuk anda.
Papa ! Papa-pepper !! You have done it again.am very happy to learnt two words today which are thlipsis and thlibo which will help me to understand more about the tribulation in Bible. Been more concerns about Christianity posting more about it which I always use my picture written on it ' steem eternity network worldwide' I am very much delightful to have come across your post.may God bless you as you have blessed my life today
Very interesting. As I said yesterday, I'm planning on doing a thorough study of Revelations after the New Year so this is very timely. That said, I haven't actually done it yet so this is a little deep for me. For instance, I didn't even know there was a "the Tribulations" so your arguments for or against its existence are all new to me. I'm thinking this is a building block in setting up future messages you'll be delivering so I'll try to remember it when the time comes. :-)
As a knife needs a whetstone to grind off the rough edges and sharpen its blade, so do we as Christians need tribulations to grow and sharpen our faith. God will not give us more than we can handle so we can feel secure in knowing that with Him, we will make it through to the other side, stronger than ever.
Keep up the good work. I'm already looking forward to the next one....
you have dont it, i wonder to read it
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” - Revelation 2:9
amazing struggle , hard work
It is a normal thing for a Christian to go through challenges, even our Lord Jesus Christ himself had his own portion while He was alive. Tribulation I can say is part of the journey of a Christian
''Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.'' 1 Thessalonians 5:2
Every day, is a potential day. No man knoweth the hour except our Father in heaven. ( Matthew 24:36 )
Θλίβω ( thlibo ) and Θλίψης ( thlipsis ) literally mean - to induce sorrow and -sorrow.
Thanks for the insight into this subject, @papa-pepper. I've tried to research the tribulation myself, but turned up empty handed. Probably because it's not something God gave us insight into, as you said. I'm really into studying the end times right now because I see so many signs and things that would point to those days being close somehow. And I'm looking forward to 47 more days of posts from you. Thanks for sharing!
Sometimes people forget preachers and pastors are human and even thou they go to college and do a lot of studing of the bible. We need to remember they are giving us their own opinion on what the bible says.
My pastor always tells us to check it out for ourselves. And we are free to go discuss with him or the Decons anything we need to get clarfied in the bible.
I love this verse: “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” - John 16:33, its one of my favorites because it reminds me that no matter what humanity throws at me God already dealt with it and overcame it so He can easily do it again on my behalf or aid me to do it for myself, whichever is part of His plan. :D
I was taught a pre-trib rapture growing up but not I do not believe that will happen, at least not how the christian church teaches it. Some scriptures verses that challenged this think include.
John 17:15 - I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
Matthew 13:30 - Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
This last verse indicating that the tares will be gathered first before His people are gathered!
I used to believe in the seven year tribulation period for seven years coincidentally. It is based on an application of the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27. Things changed when it was revealed to me that there is a mathematical error associated with that application. Because of that, my entire eschatological perspective at the time was disrupted. But such disruptions are necessary when one wants to know the truth.
Ah man, great post! Wish I could have seen this sooner to upvote :-/
The idea of, "The Tribulation" (aka, the secret rapture) as know in the popular term is as you said, not biblical. Nor does it compare to the examples in the Bible and is extremely dangerous. There are people who are procrastinators and will think, "Ah, I'll just wait until the Rapture happens and then I'll fix my life up." But the Bible never gives examples of a second chance.
Noah wasn't saved from the Flood, He saved him THROUGH the flood.
Moses wasn't saved from the plagues, he was saved THROUGH the plagues.
In other words, God will protect us from those events. We will all be present when those things happen.
In Revelation 18:4
4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
God is going to protect his people from the plagues just as he did with Moses. And we'll all still be here on this planet as those plagues happen. It was at the end of the plagues that Moses and his people left Egypt and it will be at the end of the plagues in the last days that "Spiritual Israel" will leave earth to be with God.
I appreciate all the hard work you have done here! It is wonderful to get discussions going about the Bible, as long as they are discussions and not "I'm right - you are wrong" arguments. Those arguments let the world see division where there should be unity. I really do look forward to following along and also listening along with @verbal-d.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV.)
After 52 years of being a Christian, I have heard every interpretation of the END TIMES, so this one is not new to me. I honestly do not believe that anyone has a true handle on "THE TRUTH". One advantage of having moved a lot within 3 different countries, is that I have by necessity attended different denominations, each with credible "PROOF" of their interpretations of scripture. We attend a Calvary Chapel now, where the Bible is read from beginning to end from the pulpit, and the Bible studied. It has been very refreshing for me to not have to deal with sermons based on a single verse from scripture. No claim is made to a handle on the truth, other than that of the simple TRUTH of the GOSPEL. Our pastor will often say, "This is what I think this passage means," but he always acknowledges that there are others who see things differently about such things as The Tribulation, Predestination etc.
Sadly, I have seen too many arguments arise from people claiming that they have a mastery of "THE TRUTH." I have been reading the Bible cover to cover, over and over about 24 years now. I can't count how many times now that I have read all the way through to Revelation, using different translations because no translation is 100% correct in some minor things. They are just TRANSLATIONS. The more I read, the more I can see how different people interpret things differently. There is a case for every argument, and I could likely take the side of every argument because I can see where they are all coming from.
I like the NLT translation's wording of 2 Timothy 2:14: Remind everyone about these things, and command them in God’s presence to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless, and they can ruin those who hear them. (By the way, if you speak more than one language you will know that no language can ever be translated literally, so arguments about the KJV versus the NLT etc. are futile arguments over words. LOL!) Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic can be studied to an extent, but not until we get to heaven will we know the whole story.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (KJV)
1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[a] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely. (NLT)
That being said, my own conclusion is that there is a difference between the tribulations that we all face and the Great Tribulation to come. But then again, that comes from weighing up all the different interpretations, and it is just my conclusion from my own reading of Scripture. We all have the Holy Spirit to guide us, so is He guiding me better than He is guiding you, or guiding you better than He is guiding me? I don't believe so. Reading the Bible draws us near to God, and that is His intention. He wants a relationship with us. Hopefully these studies will serve to make Christians read the Scripture for themselves and will help them to draw closer into a relationship with Him. Thanks, and Blessings!
I will never make the claim to understand any part of The Bible, because as you said "...no language can ever be translated literally, so arguments about the KJV versus the NLT etc. are futile arguments over words." and if I'm can't be 100% positive on the accuracy of one translation over another than I can't ever be 100% positive of the accuracy of my understanding either. God bless, have an awesome day! :D
The amazing thing though, is that every translation is clear about the basic truths of the Bible, and the gospel is the same message wherever you read it.
Yes I agree with that, they all have the same basics, but there are also, differences, which shouldn't exist, but I think most of the differences are mainly of language/interpretation of other languages and trying to get the closest word/phrase of the language its being translated into. I might be wrong, and am willing to hear others opinions on this, but that is what I believe currently.
As Christians, we better be prepared for the possibility of going through the tribulation. I believed in a pre-trib rapture because of teachings I heard on the radio, until @bluerthangreen showed me scripture verses that indicated the rapture could just as easily take place at the end. We see many verses urging Christians to be faithful to the point of death. Our ancestors went through things like this in the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. Who are we to think we will avoid it? God has not appointed us to wrath, but He has appointed us to a measure of suffering. And that suffering will do its good work in us, if we allow it to.
I'm very moved with this interpretation.. God bless you.
I want to contribute my little knowledge "God way can't be defined by knowledge of men" there are many ways tribulations mentioned in the Bible but the way of God is beyond human comprehension. To me I think most important is for one's to renew his or her relationship with God no doubt we are in " End Time" the Jerusalem was announced by Trump some days has much related to Biblical prophecy now it's has come to fulfilment. Except a man in the spirit of God "Holy Spirit / Hope Ghost" before he can understand the " Words of God" in book of Romans " Bible Describe Holy Spirit as Interpretation spirits, Comforter , Counselor etc. God is spirit no knowledge of man describe about God"
In conclusion it will be wise move for us to renew our relationship with God " Jesus Christ say "In life you shall see tribulations but be of good cheer I have overcome the world" Apostle Paul say "Nothing can celebrate me from the love of Christ" not famine, not persecution , not poverty or anything should celebrate us from God .. we need the grace of God daily , we are sojourn here home is "Heaven" Stephen was stoned to death because of tribulations but Despise this he never compromised yet he say "Forgive them" Disciples of Jesus Christ dead a horrible death yet they stand even at the points of death"
Some of you will read about Christians being hugely persecuted by Bokoharam in Northern Nigeria. Many stand with Jesus and were killed because of Gospel. Let pray each day for "Grace and Mercy of God" for it is written " I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy upon and compassion on whom I will have compassion upon" Knowledge of man can't defined way of God.....
The Problems will have now in this contemporary World is that "Man philosophy is taking control of the Church not the "Spirit of God" this is the deception of evil. Let everyone of us be preparing and renew our relationship with God" let pray for Spirit of God "Holy Spirit" in our lives, else deception of devil and human philosophy will lead to destruction.
I pray the Spirit of God helps you to interpret his Words.
Keep the good work.
Re-steemed √√√
A good read and video for religion savvy folks and for those who are willing to learn...keep it up my dear wild man and keep steeming.
Today , I wrote about Why the Rich and Poor need cryptocurrencies -feel free to see it when you are free. More success to you and keep it coming!!!!!
Good papa-pepper
This is an excellent post! Digging deeper into the scriptures is where His Truth is revealed! I can't wait to go over all these scriptures. The devil is literally in the details... and most seem not to want to dig deep enough to get to the semantics of the language and it's usage. Thanks for all you to Pops! God Bless & Keep You and Your Family! =)
Posting yang sangat bagus.. Senang melihatnya. Terima kasih sudah berbagi pengalaman dan perbandingan informasi.lanjutkan karya anda semoga
Sukses selalu untuk anda.
it turns out you are also a religious @papa-pepper :)
Mind blown. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for coming along for this study. You just wait, hopefully things will make a lot of sense.
Amazing @papa-pepper..
Papa ! Papa-pepper !! You have done it again.am very happy to learnt two words today which are thlipsis and thlibo which will help me to understand more about the tribulation in Bible. Been more concerns about Christianity posting more about it which I always use my picture written on it ' steem eternity network worldwide' I am very much delightful to have come across your post.may God bless you as you have blessed my life today
Thanks for the encouragement!
So busy with the judging of the popcontest I missed Day 1 , I will watch them both later today . Thanks for sharing ! Upped and resteemed !!👍👍👍✌💕
Wow! This is eyes opening @papa-pepper, I must follow this daily till end
Very interesting. As I said yesterday, I'm planning on doing a thorough study of Revelations after the New Year so this is very timely. That said, I haven't actually done it yet so this is a little deep for me. For instance, I didn't even know there was a "the Tribulations" so your arguments for or against its existence are all new to me. I'm thinking this is a building block in setting up future messages you'll be delivering so I'll try to remember it when the time comes. :-)
As a knife needs a whetstone to grind off the rough edges and sharpen its blade, so do we as Christians need tribulations to grow and sharpen our faith. God will not give us more than we can handle so we can feel secure in knowing that with Him, we will make it through to the other side, stronger than ever.
Keep up the good work. I'm already looking forward to the next one....
you have dont it, i wonder to read it
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” - Revelation 2:9
amazing struggle , hard work
It is a normal thing for a Christian to go through challenges, even our Lord Jesus Christ himself had his own portion while He was alive. Tribulation I can say is part of the journey of a Christian
''Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.'' 1 Thessalonians 5:2
Every day, is a potential day. No man knoweth the hour except our Father in heaven. ( Matthew 24:36 )
Θλίβω ( thlibo ) and Θλίψης ( thlipsis ) literally mean - to induce sorrow and -sorrow.
Great post Papa-pepper!
God bless you!
Thanks for the insight into this subject, @papa-pepper. I've tried to research the tribulation myself, but turned up empty handed. Probably because it's not something God gave us insight into, as you said. I'm really into studying the end times right now because I see so many signs and things that would point to those days being close somehow. And I'm looking forward to 47 more days of posts from you. Thanks for sharing!
I hope that by the end of this study you will not be emptyhanded.
Sometimes people forget preachers and pastors are human and even thou they go to college and do a lot of studing of the bible. We need to remember they are giving us their own opinion on what the bible says.
My pastor always tells us to check it out for ourselves. And we are free to go discuss with him or the Decons anything we need to get clarfied in the bible.
I love this verse: “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” - John 16:33, its one of my favorites because it reminds me that no matter what humanity throws at me God already dealt with it and overcame it so He can easily do it again on my behalf or aid me to do it for myself, whichever is part of His plan. :D
I’m more spiritual than religious but stilll find these studies of old texts fascinating
I was taught a pre-trib rapture growing up but not I do not believe that will happen, at least not how the christian church teaches it. Some scriptures verses that challenged this think include.
This last verse indicating that the tares will be gathered first before His people are gathered!
YYYYEEEESSSS
I used to believe in the seven year tribulation period for seven years coincidentally. It is based on an application of the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27. Things changed when it was revealed to me that there is a mathematical error associated with that application. Because of that, my entire eschatological perspective at the time was disrupted. But such disruptions are necessary when one wants to know the truth.
THESE TRUTHS CAN BE A HARD PILL TO SWALLOW! So far I'm tracking with you! You have a great way of stating truth without getting all snarky! @mnmleger
Ah man, great post! Wish I could have seen this sooner to upvote :-/
The idea of, "The Tribulation" (aka, the secret rapture) as know in the popular term is as you said, not biblical. Nor does it compare to the examples in the Bible and is extremely dangerous. There are people who are procrastinators and will think, "Ah, I'll just wait until the Rapture happens and then I'll fix my life up." But the Bible never gives examples of a second chance.
In other words, God will protect us from those events. We will all be present when those things happen.
In Revelation 18:4
God is going to protect his people from the plagues just as he did with Moses. And we'll all still be here on this planet as those plagues happen. It was at the end of the plagues that Moses and his people left Egypt and it will be at the end of the plagues in the last days that "Spiritual Israel" will leave earth to be with God.