This is the question which has driven humanity since a time before recorded history. I can’t honestly say that God does not exist for certain but I can say that it goes against what evidence our scientists have gathered.
At the beginning of our universe, the Big Bang, matter started as fundamental particles, very simple. As time went forward, more complex atoms formed, hydrogen, one proton being circled by one electron. Eventually the force of gravity caused hydrogen to form stars and these stars became giant fusion reactors. The hydrogen fused into helium. Helium into lithium. Eventually these stars formed more complex elements and formed iron. The iron caused the stars to condense into such a tight ball that energy pushing out caused the star to explode, and during this explosion all the heavy elements were formed and were spread throughout space. More stars formed using this materials and planets began to form too. On one of these planets, carbon began forming complex molecules and life started. Life started simple and got more complex starting from bacteria, to worm, to fish, to reptile, to mammal to human.
Humans developed an advanced intellect and started to wonder where they came from. Because they didn’t understand anything about how the world around them worked, they decided that there must be a greater being that made the world around them appear. The stars, the Moon, the Sun were gods, greater beings that control the planet. Thunder, lightning, earthquakes and all natural disasters were caused by these gods, also plentiful harvests, and happiness too were the result of the gods as well.
Science started getting more advanced, and many people decided that having hundreds or thousands of Gods was unrealistic, so they decided that one God was enough. Science progressed forward, and people began understanding the nature of the universe. Many started dismissing God altogether, but many more decided that all this was evidence of God’s greatness.
This story shows that in our universe, everything started from the simple fundamental particles and got more complex as time went forward. Our belief systems started from very simple and got more complex too.
I have to ask the question, if the universe started from an extremely simple origin and grew more complex as time moved forward, how could an infinitely complex god exist before the simple origins of the universe? The universe progresses from simple to complex, therefore this leaves me to question whether God could exist as an infinitely complex being before the beginning of an infinitely simple start to our universe.
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I would only say that we simply do not have enough evidence to say anything. If we accept big bang theory, then what was before that? And before that? We don't know yet, and I doubt we will know any time soon.
I don't believe in God that's for sure lol.
Of course God exists !
He made all the world and He help us when we need Him !
For some people, this belief helps them get through life, over the pain of living. There is nothing wrong with believing in god, especially when it is a healthy relationship. As far as I know, god could exist, but I am waiting for some sort of evidence before I become a believer.
The Bible is full of evidence.
What's it going to take?
Hint: God in general does not do personal demos for each and every human.
He gave us the Bible with plenty of eyewitness testimony.
If you discard it. You just discarded all the evidence.
And so you will be waiting for all eternity.
That's a long time. :)
You aren't winning any converts today!
It's not my job to win converts. God handles that.
My job is just to get the information out there.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
Why did the universe(s) come into existence out of the nothing before it?
When I start running a simulation of a Sopwith Camel I can set the initial conditions to anything I want. After that, the simulation picks up at that point in time just like it has been running forever. I don't have to run the part of the simulation where Snoopy takes off and lands. I can focus on the single roll maneuver that interests me. I can't tell how long the simulation has been running just by looking at the current state variables. Neither can science.
The OP lays out the current theory of the universe giving a set of observations of that simulation at essentially a single snapshot in time. That doesn't mean that the simulation actually had to run that whole time.
You can think of reality as a simulation of 14 billion year old universe that started running 6000 years ago. You can't possibly imagine the higher dimensions of existence in which that simulation is running, but God has stated quite plainly in the Bible why he started it and what He plans to achieve with it. That's something that can only be revealed from outside the simulation. Science can look forever and only conclude that the universe LOOKS like it is 14 billion years old and started spreading out from a singularity point. Very presumptive of us humans, but that's what we do.
Indeed, as you say the universe could be 6,000 years old and we'd never know if it is a simulation designed to appear that way. That sounds an awful lot like a convenient way to believe you are right even when all of the evidence says you aren't, but I digress.
The larger problem with your reasoning is that Genesis claims the Earth existed before the sun, trees and other land vegetation before sea creatures and birds before land animals. The order itself is wrong. This isn't possible to explain away via the simulation analogy.
Thank you for the intelligent response to his comment. There is a mountain of evidence that proves the universe is billions of years old. Also I agree, the bible does not make sense in many ways. An enlightened christian would argue that many of the stories in the bible are just analogies, but Stan seems to be holding onto some rather strange beliefs.
Google The Simulation Hypothesis. It has plenty of scientific evidence that the universe seems to work like a simulation. Once I saw that I realized it was one way where science and the Bible do not conflict. Therefore it is the best available explanation I have seen that explains all the facts that have been documented throughout history.
Does God use a universe of supercomputers to simulate this universe? I doubt it. But that's not the point. The point is that God clearly generates this reality from some higher level definition and therefore has complete control over every physical particle.
If you've ever built a simulation (I have done many) or an animated Hollywood movie, you know that you can design the various components in any order you like. You can create all the characters for Disney's The Jungle Book while waiting for another team of designers to create the universe in which they will operate.
Your idea of the Bible getting things "in the wrong order" merely shows your preconceived acceptance of the matrix in which you are living.
God is outside that box.
The only way you can know anything about what is out there is if you accept what God has revealed about it.
Most of the anologies I've been using in this conversation are just to help you expand your thinking by talking in terms of science fiction - which humans seem to have an easier time exercising their imagination with. I'm perfectly fine with just accepting that "it is written."
I don't need to Google it, I've written about that topic at great length before.
No, it gets them in the wrong order.
No, God is the box itself. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what God is because you were raised in a cult. You will never truly know God so long as you remain in this deceived state.
The Bible is not the revealed word of God any more than the Qur'an or Book of Mormon are. Because you are not a Muslim or a Mormon you can see, from the outside, that those religions are false. But you can't see that about your own religion from within.
Maybe why is not important, and the only thing that is important is existing in the present moment. Maybe we will find out the Why once we attain the next level of existence if there is another level.
Yes we will all find out some day, but then it will be too late.
Better find out what this life is for now.
It's a test, a trust, and a training arena.
How you do on that test affects what kind of job you get in your real eternal career.
You're in Spiritual College right now. Your resulting credentials matter.
Don't waste it partying like there's no tomorrow.
There are an infinite number of tomorrows. :)
How do you know if we will ever find out. No one can be for sure, and if you think you are absolutely sure, you have a lot to learn.
Again. Having accepted the Bible as authoritative, all I do is point to what has been written there.
I only need to focus on why I have concluded that the eyewitness accounts in the Bible are credible. After that, things get very easy: "It is written."
I want to challenge you because i don't think that it matter if God exists or not ;)
https://steemit.com/religion/@mystis/why-it-doesn-t-matter-if-god-exists-or-not
I read the article, and I have to agree, all that really matters is the present. If god exists, then he is just letting things happen through science and physics. People have their decisions and these effect the world. Who knows maybe even good and evil are just a belief system as well.
Thank you for your time :) well i think the concept is what matters because proving means that you need actual proofs which are debatable and mosty confusing and wont take the debate to the best place there is!
Very true, it is impossible to prove or disprove god, so why bother. Life would be much simpler if we all just lived life in the moment.
It's interesting to discuss the concept of God but why trying to prove or disprove it?
It might be simpler but so would ignoring why you went off to school and just partying the whole time, rather than using the opportunity to make something more of yourself.
Life is such an opportunity! Time to take it seriously.
It is a human fallacy to attempt to prove or disprove god, one which I sometimes am guilty of. God is to each person what they make of it. I've had a roller coaster ride with my beliefs and disbelief about god and sometimes I do question gods existence mainly as far as saying that it could be possible that a god may exist. What I do know is that if god does exist, I would be indifferent and go about my life the same way as I always have.
No.
God is. We don't get to define Him.
God is NOT to each person what they make of it. That's insane reasoning!
We can try to ignore God but it doesn't really matter what theories we propose.
They don't change reality.
And a thousand human fabricated concepts don't put a tiny dent in the Truth.
Eternity exists.
Where you spend it matters.
So what you choose to believe in this short life matters incredibly for all eternity.
Please don't let people tell you that your own ideas have any ability to effect reality.
Different wishes about a brick wall won't change what happens if you drive into one at 100 kph.
And they won't change what happens when you die either.
That's determined by a simple test: either you want to know the real God, or you don't.
Stan, if Yahweh is indeed the God of the entire universe, why is he specifically male? Does he have a penis and balls? A Y chromosome? Why is he one of the two human genders? Why does he want women to be silent and obedient, never holding authority over men? Why does he revile homosexuality?
These are not the dispassionate, magnanimous views of a cosmic being. They are the views of Jewish men from thousands of years ago, or what an emotionally immature teenage boy today might believe.
It might be simpler but so would ignoring why you went off to school and just partying the whole time, rather than using the opportunity to make something more of yourself.
Life is such an opportunity! Time to take it seriously.
Both men and women are created "in God's image".
Sexual components are an artifact of our need to reproduce in this "matrix".
One should not over extend God's use of terms we can understand in all generations.
Our relationship to our human fathers in most civilizations gives us the best analog to the relationship God wants to have with us: "Abba", "Papa", "Daddy".
This question will touch lot of pain points in many. If I have to discuss I will have to take into account whatever little I know about Hinduism.
In Hinduism there are two concepts or philosophies and both have common as well as divided following.
One is called Advaita philosophy. In this there is one supreme Brahman and everything is part of the supreme.
Another one is called Dvaita philosophy. Here there are two entities. One is god and other is rest of us.
I like the Advaita philosophy. It establishes supreme. It has no shape form or anything. The best I can describe it is as "energy".
Everything has one common component in them called "Prana". If I have to translate, it can be said to be "life force".
If the above concept is taken into consideration then we reach a point where I can say that the supreme does not need to exist. It is beyond the concept of existence. It can never come to exist and at the same time it can never cease to exist.
That is the best I can present my opinion with respect to concept of god with respect to science.
Advaita sounds interesting, I like the idea that we can reach a point where the supreme not need to exist. If there is a creator of some sort, he would be beyond existence. All I truly know is that I don't know.
Well that is the beauty of age old knowledge that India holds. It is a shame that current generation of India doesn't give a damn to explore this gold mine. I am one of those ignorant ones too.
If at all you like to read about this kind of philosophy, you may find "complete works of Swami Vivekananda" on internet. They are available as PDFs. He explains all the concepts in an easy to understand language with many interesting stories.
I'll have to check him out. Being that you are aware of the old knowledge, at least you are in a better place to begin to explore deeper into that. I find philosophy interesting, having taken some classes in college on the subject. Although I usually like to go deep within myself to try to find self realization, it is always good to learn about different teachings.
Sure. You learn a lot that way. I had this great conversation with you. I wish this platform starts appreciating this kind of content.
I have a couple other philosophy posts if you would care to read them, click here
I hope you enjoy!
Read them. Liked them. Followed you. I wish you a successful steemit journey.
This is true, but there's something you haven't thought of yet. The very same reasoning which leads you to atheism (and myself as well until a few years ago) leads to a very different, surprising conclusion if thought through a little bit further.