Discipleship- What does it really look like?

in #religous7 years ago (edited)

Here on the homestead we are always learning. Sometimes it is about how to take care of a certain type of animal or tree, how to build something we need, how to grow and preserve different types of food. But something we always do here at the homestead is learn scripture.

I have been reading so many different points of view on Facebook concerning discipleship, reaching the lost, churches and why they are shrinking, and so on, that I had to really stop and ask one question...What does it truly mean to be a disciple. I know lots of people have answers, and most are very similar, but the understanding and application can be as different as night and day.

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If we are going to discuss discipleship, we have to understand something, everybody is a disciple. Unless you are in a vegetative state, you are being disciplined to think, speak, and live a certain way, by a certain code. The now late Steven Hawking had many disciples who bought into a make believe science that explains creation without a creator, and so many of the intellectual elites will quote him for decades if not centuries.

In the same manner we have to look at churches and ask ourselves, which ones actually have disciples. Which ones actually train up in the way of the Messiah. It is very simple really, which ones seek to teach and live as He did?

So how did He teach? WWJD? Simple, He would quote "it is written" and do it. He constantly spoke to people concerning the Words given by Moses, and commanded that as it was written, so we should do. Everybody knows John 3:16, even football fans, but how many know John 7:16, and understand it's importance. In 7:16, "Yashua answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me." This is huge, because we are later told in 3John that if someone comes teaching any doctrine different than the one Messiah taught, we should not even break bread with them.

So what is the Fathers doctrine? Proverbs 4:2 says, "My doctrine is good, forsake ye not my Law (Torah)." So how many of us read Moses to learn how to live in the Kingdom coming? How many of us actually care what the King said concerning obedience to the Father?

Truth is, I have not been in a church that teaches the same doctrine Messiah taught. I don't see anybody in the churches doing as Messiah did, and I am not saying that there are too many sinners, I see men, "leaders" who defend the right to live in sin, who perpetuate sin, and ignore the Law of the Most High because they believe Paul tells them they can.

The interpretations of Paul in the church show that there is no fear of the Almighty, and no discipleship, but enemies of the Messiah. Let me explain what I mean. Recently I had a man, who does not really know scripture very well, even after 70 years in church, trying to use Galatians to say I am going back into bondage. Here is the scripture he quoted...

Galatians 4:8-11

8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

He is saying that obeying and keeping the Sabbath and Feast Days of God (Every commandment that concerns Loving Him) is weak and beggarly and bondage. I know many in church believe this but it is asinine to believe this. There are several verses like this throughout Paul's letters.

1 Timothy 4:4-5 says For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Most in church have used this passage in 1 Timothy to say we can eat anything we want, forgetting the whole "sanctified (set apart) by the Word of God part.

Here is the issue. To understanding Paul in this way is to say that the Word of God, and therefore also The Messiah, the Word made flesh, is weak and beggarly and if you look at what 1 Timothy is actually speaking against, it is doctrines of demons. Do you believe Moses spoke with demons? Do you believe the doctrine of the Messiah to be a doctrine of demons?

If Paul is actually saying this then he is a liar. If you are saying this you are a liar, which goes along with a scripture that says "if they say they love Me, and keep not My commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them". The Word is not weak, it is not beggarly, it is not a doctrine of demons, it is not bondage. To interpret the verses Paul uses these terms as him speaking of the Word (Law) of God, then you my friend are saying that Moses spoke with demons, and that Yashua Messiah IS all of these things. I can assure you, that when the King of kings shows up, you will realize which kingdom you have obeyed.

Read Is. 66 and the last few chapters of Zech. We will be required to keep the Feast with Him in Jerusalem. It also says that when He returns, He will slay those eating swines flesh and other abominations. It says He will rule with a rod of iron, and what Law do you think He will rule by? Rules set forth by the Southern Baptist Convention? Rules adopted and spread throughout the whole world by the Pope? Nope. The same Law given to Moses. You have no idea what freedom is if you do not live in obedience to Torah. I lived in the bondage of man made traditions. Yashua referred to those who keep the traditions of their fathers, and make void the Law of God, sons of the devil.

Believe what you want, but if you believe Paul is saying all of this, then you have no fear of the Living God, and I know this because you call all of His prophets liars when you suggest that His Word is bondage.

Helen Keller had more sight and hearing than those espousing that His Word is a curse or bondage.

Isa 8:16
Bind up the testimony,
Seal the law among my disciples.

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Very well said, I have had these same discussions with professing Christians..... If felt like I was talking to a brick wall, so I dusted myself off and had to move on! Thanks for the good word, resteeming to share the truth of God's word. I will close with something else that Paul said. Romans 7:12 "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

Great word. I am baffled, that I too, once believed such nonsense. The church should put Paul down, and open his letters up in a couple of years after they have had plenty of time to learn and understand truth. It is difficult to talk with them.

I have difficulty as well. They don't and I guess we didn't either but they are putting Paul above God and Yeshua. If Yeshua came to change things then why don't we read that somewhere in the 4 Gospels? Yeshua said it was not my doctrine but the Father's. It is frustrating but we were lost once too, just have to keep praying that the Father continues to open the eyes of the blind!

The biggest issue I realized early on was that nowhere was it ever prophesied that the Law would be done away with, or changed, other than where it is written. In fact, we have the Deuteronomy 13 test that states if anybody is teaching anything different, don't follow but cling to the Head, and obey the Father. The rest are all false teachers. Just hurts when you realize you were one of those false teachers.

That is true, we did it and didn't know we were doing it!

You are spot on. Well written and well said. My wife and I woke up to Following Yeshua alittle over a year ago. It is so crazy when you start reading the Bible and actually doing what the whole Bible says how much of an outcast you become. I agree the modern day church is missing it. You made my day with this post. Sometimes I start to think my family is all alone. It is so nice to hear others who are the same path we are.

When you start off on this journey, you are as alone as one can get. We lost the friendship of nearly everyone we know, I couldn't really speak to family about anything important, old church friends avoid us like the plague. It truly is amazing that they will "speak" about obedience and then absolutely rip you apart when you actually do it. We live in the middle of nowhere, and we were desiring to move for a long time to an area where we knew there were many TRUE believers, but as time goes by, and we are now into our 4th year of seeking to obey with everything we have, we meet knew believers here and there, and we are now seeing a community coming together. It has taken time. Some of the view points are different. I will say this, I would not argue with a single person about this for some time, even though, with each confrontation, you sharpen your sword. I guess I should say, speak the truth, but don't hold your breath that anybody can hear or see what you are speaking. There are times I finally just lay down a truth that they will either accept, or it will drive them away from me. It has usually resulted in the latter.

I had a discussion with a gal at the church I used to attend. She (and the rest of the church) believes that we only have to obey whichever commandments from the OT are repeated in the NT (aka “moral laws”). I would point out all these scriptures that I thought for sure would make it so obvious that the whole law still applies to us today. It amazed me at how many hoops she had to jump through to make what she believed true.
My husband and I have to meet with our pastors before we can just drop out (I guess), and they want to know what it is exactly what we believe. I’m so excited on one end, to share this great news, but on the other, I have heard from others that it ended badly for them. I guess we will just have to see what their reaction is.

I don't know the people you are talking to, or what may be happening in their journey of either finding the narrow path or blindly walking the broad path. One thing I would encourage you on is understanding that there is zero submission to men who do not recognize/teach the Torah. In fact the more I read scripture, the submission to deacons, pastors, elders and bishops is only when you and a brother have an issue that needs a judge to rightly judge. They are not there to "police". These four groups were set up by Moses in the wilderness as judges over 10's, 50's, 100's and 1,000's. They are not rulers, which is what we have adopted... a completely wrong paradigm from the Catholic Nicolaitan church. Remember, you and your husband are going to blind and deaf men who think they can see and hear. Shalom.

Well said. I agree wholeheartedly!

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Just ran across this post... I really like it - too many people use the wrong definition of disciple. We discipline (apply rules)our children in order to protect them not only while they are with us but afterwards too. If we want to become disciples we must discipline ourselves by applying our Father's rules to our lives. Yeshua is the example of the application of those rules. @discipleshipsuccess