My favourite question is - Would you still believe in god if there was no reward of going to heaven at the end of it?
Its funny, but not a single believer has yet to give me astraight answer
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My favourite question is - Would you still believe in god if there was no reward of going to heaven at the end of it?
Its funny, but not a single believer has yet to give me astraight answer
I believe in God and I'm probably going to Hell. ;)
Here we shall agree =)
Absolutely. Believe and serve. Heaven is not the end game. God is supreme and deserves worship and is under no obligation to me at all. I am doubly indebted to him because he created me and I slapped him in the face by disobeying his law. So, I deserve death. The least I can do is serve God.
I also believe whomever God calls comes to Him - so if He called me with no benefit to me whatsoever then I would be compelled to obey.
Sorry, but i highly doubt that. You can say it now but facts are there to remaine.
Look at what Christ said - salvation through me - implying that salvation is the gift for believe
Look at the fanatic islamsits - they go for the job with the belief that they will go to heaven
Look at fabatic Jews - they believe because they, and only they are the chose once, and no one else will be saved at the end of the game
So whatever you say maybe true jsut for you, and maybe you are the one in a million, but for most believers (according to each instituion's religous manuscripts or books) - salvation in one way or another is the present for belief, and the main reason
No doubt there is a period along the growth path of a disciple where the motivation is carrot and stick. Just like what it takes to train a child to form good habits.
However, these days I would do anything for my mother out of love, even though there is not much more that she can do for me.
That is the way it is with God. Abba. Papa. Daddy.
Would you post on steemit.com... if there were no reward system in place?
But seriously faith in God is far more than just a hope for some future reward... that is perhaps only relavent when belief is very immature...
I am not a believer but I think you made a critical point. I think some people have a sense of spitituality, and some do not. Those who are spiritual are conditioned to find faith in a religion, and to them the world is unimaginable in a frame of reference without that religion. So I agree that the failthful are not failthful for a reward, but because they cant imagine any other way. For the non-spritual, the concept of living with a religion is equally un-imaginable. The problem comes when doctorine (either religious or not) tries to force these groups to pretend to do something in which they do not (cannot) believe.
Many modern religious leaders of many faiths preach tolerance of other faiths and the non-faithful, many on the secular side are happy to live with those of the religious persuasion. This only fails when intolerance prevails.
Preachers preach and teach from the begging of times.
If you are hearing that they preach about tolerance, then you are doing great. I hear the opposite, and there is no need to give me an example of how the Pope forgave Israel for the fact that they crucified Jesus... What?!
Where is tolerance? Thats pure disregard and disrespect to anothe religion.
For the fact of living along side religious persuaisin, no probs, read my comment to the topic starte. But thats not the point i was trying to make.
Respect =)
"the Pope forgave Israel for the fact that they crucified Jesus... What?!"
Are you implying Jesus wouldn't want them to be forgiven?
Yes i would post, as I would be writing a blog. I posted on facebook, VK, OK, and so on and so forth. In fact people wrote books and were burned for doing so by the church or other religious authorities.
So i dont think it has something to do with immaturity.
Having studied christianity, buddism, islam, judaism, bahaism and other religions i cm to lots of conclusions.
One of them is that believers belief becasue of the final reward (salvation will only be achieved if you believe in me).
Faith in God is not a bad thing, its a great thing in fact. But its absolutyl misinerpeted and corrupted.
One should I go to church whne Jesus said that buildings or any other physical entities have nothing to do with faith. The church (along with other institution of faith) are the most corrupt places i ever seen. They are hypocritical from the buttom to the top.
Why should I believe in 1 God, why not 20? If god or gods exists, who to choose?
Well each one (of the over 1000 known religions and over 100 000 thousnad known enteties and gods) states to believe in him only as he is the right one and he will save you (back to the reward)
what is heaven but a bribe, and what is hell but a threat?
Heaven is not a bribe, it's home. Hell is not just a threat. It's a prison, worst possible kind of prison. But it was not meant to be our prison. Place where you don't want to end but place where you can end without Jesus.
If that is all you understand them to be then that is all they will ever be to you... but if you engage with the concepts a little more deeply then there is a lot more there than meets the first glance.
Justice and grace. To my belief God allowed man to make his own decisions instead of forcing some sort of automotron love. Love cannot be forced or it is not love. Sin needed to be punished and according to the bible Hell is here because of a choice humans made not to follow the rules God gave. Heaven is not bribe, but a reconciliation with God through his sacrifice of his son who I believe was perfect and took on the sin of all. By believing that God did this and accepting it, he allows our many past sins and future sins to be washed away. That's not to say we can live as we wish and then at the end turn in some sort of get into heaven card.
I understand why it does not make sense to many people and there are many hypocritiacal christians who say one thing and do another. But to the best of my knowledge, I believe in my heart that heaven and hell are much deeper topics than merely a reward and a threat.
Straight answer. Yes.
I would.
The reward of heaven is not the only reason one believes.
But also without an afterlife what is the purpose of life? Are we more than dust that has evolved? If not, then why is there outrage about injustice when someone enslaves or hurts someone else? Would that not be dust engaging with more dust in a meaningless swirl of life?
I struggle to find what the meaning of life would be without believing there is something after this life.
Even without heaven as a reward for accepting Christ, one would still lead a life that served others even though it may not matter since without a heaven you would just die forever.
What pursuits would matter in life? Money? Status? Power?
I guess I would also pose the question back to you. Would you believe in God if you knew there was a heaven and would one day be held accountable for everything you have done in your life if you decided not to follow Christ?
You make a good point. I definitely appreciated your question @serejandmyself and respect your insight as well.
Thnaks, i think we all need to agree on disagreeing as it all going in circles. Thanks for the open answer
Yes absolutely. It is not my duty to change your beliefs, nor do I feel that anyone should impose upon another's beliefs. I think sharing your beliefs if a user asks or you feel you can respectfully contribute something to the conversation is what should be done.
Trying to "convert" someone gives an air of superiority. But if you share what you personally believe in a kind way, you will then let the person come to their own conclusion whether or not that turns out to be agreeing with out or not.
It is valuable to engage with many different beliefs and philosophies to shape your own and make you question why you believe what you believe.