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RE: The Curse Of The Quantum God

in #religion8 years ago

Very interesting article! Some thoughts...

if God creates the future, but doesn’t know what’s going to happen in a particular future, then God couldn’t have created that future.
points to a God playing with us like toys

From a science point of view, is it possible to create the process of time that results in there being a future, without being able to know or predict what will happen in ghat future? I like to think in terms of computer simulations, since I have experience in the field of Artificial Life, having worked as a Software Engineer in an AI lab for several years. If i create a universe and set up the rules, and create agents which act independently according to their local knowledge, I can't predict what will happen in my universe in the next time tick. The processing going on in my universe is distributed and done in parallel, while I am one processor trying to access all the possible outcomes. I don't have enough time to do that math, so the best thing to do is just let the next time tick happen and see what my creation does. This is mentioned in that huge book on my book self, A New Kind of Science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_New_Kind_of_Science

The point is, maybe God knows as much as anything/anybody could possibly know about the future, and it's not everything or maybe its not even anything. He would still be the supreme being, being able to do the most that any being possibly could. He might act/intervene however he wants, and not knowing exactly what the result of that might be, doesn't mean he can't do it. If he does anything, he is creating a different future than if he did nothing. For me, the simulator of universes, it is interesting and entertaining to do something and see what happens. :-)

From a religious point of view, from my understanding, Calvinism with its predestination says that God can play with us like toys or do anything he wants with us. Romans says, who are we to judge the potter? He can make his pots and throw some away and keep others. So it does seem that an entire denomination accepts this and still prays to God, assuming that they are among the elect.

if God isn’t aware of that future, then it’s not a stretch to believe that God isn’t aware of any future, therefore God couldn’t have created time, therefore, as religion describes it, there is no God.

I need a little help with this one. Assume, as above, that God isn't aware of that future or any future, due to it being impossible to be aware of the future. Why does the next step follow, that he couldn't have created time. That seems like a rule in the simulation/universe that could have been created, even without having the ability to know the state of the system at a future instant of time.

Deep deep discussion! I let my mind dwell on it for a bit and that's what I came up with. Just my thoughts, and I appreciate all points of view on all subjects, as long as we talk about ideas and don't attack each other personally. :-) Just a general thought from me to wrap up this way-too-long comment!

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Wow! Really good comments, thanks; I like the parallels you draw with your simulated universe and your book is straight onto my reading list.

In the last point where you ask about how I reconcile the lack of God's knowledge of the future, as a sign that he hasn't made time.

I am saying so from religion's point of view, I'm trying to break down the statement God is all knowing, that statement on its own perhaps isn't enough. But when you add the term, God is all knowing and he created the universe, then that is saying that God created time.

As far as we're concerned there was no time before the universe, in the same way there was no time for lines of code in your universe, before the simulation began. You created time for your AI elements, so you are the creator of time, however you're not all knowing, so your AI have free will.

But unlike your universe, religion insists that; you can't fool God, and he is all knowing. So if God created time and knows the future, it is because as far as God is concerned, there is no future. The time he has created to him is omnipresent, therefore, the religious God, knows everything that can and will happen.

In that instance, we don't have free will, like trains on a track, we are at the Great Signaler's mercy, this directly contradicts religion and it has to.

The original progenitors of the main religions, whilst trying to assert their imaginary God's power, couldn't create a scenario whereby people can say; "It doesn't matter what I do, because it's all been planned out." In that matter, you won't have control, you'll have chaos.

So free will is an important component of organised religion; as is omniscience, because you can't have the flock, thinking they can hide things from God.

However, the two cannot coexist, free will cancels out omniscience and vice versa, so if religion insists on both states, then God does indeed, disappear in a puff of logic. :-)

CG