Adam is described as the first flesh.
Some interpret this to mean that prior to Adam there was no death and that the fall introduced death to the entire planet.
This is also an intriguing conundrum.
What happened to the cells of the forbidden fruit that was eaten? did they not die?
Adam also lived for many years outside of the garden of Eden before his eventual death. Did this mean that nothing died in the whole of creation waiting for him to die?
In fact we have Cain killing Able and so that death also preceded the death of Adam...
So perhaps what is implied something a little different to what jumps to mind at first reading.
The fall definitely changed things from the state they were in Eden. But Eden was of limited geographical extent.
What was going on outside of Eden?
What had been going on before Eden?
I'm going to do things a little different this time round and see what your thoughts are before giving my opinions.
I'll give it a day or so for lots of comments so we can have a diversity of opinions.
Previous parts of this Series.
Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Delving a little deeper
Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Into the detail
Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Some conclusions
Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Some more conclusions
Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - The implications.
The evolution of Adam - a conundrum
The evolution of Adam - Who is Adam
The evolution of Adam - Two trees and choice
The evolution of Adam - Partaking of the fruit and feeling naked
Regards! Sorry if I bothered you
I come to you because of a difficult situation, recently someone wanted to defraud me by using his name ... I am a small user in Steemit and this person odrecio make me valued votes in 100SBD in exchange for a small commission ... this person said that I made it to be for birthday and to be this a way to celebrate ...
I was close to losing my money but I found it very strange that I did not request that I send my sbd directly to its user in steemit ...
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Thank you @gavvet! is lucky not to have fallen into this scam ... any user who was starting inside the platform can fall into it because it is so tempting :(
@simnrodrguez
Care to share the link? I can't read the image.
Follow me @Yehey
Thank you.
Greetings @yehey
here I share the link addresses so you can see them!
I'm following you ... interesting your publications, I had not seen them,
What is your job?
i.imgur.com/wBNYEaO.png
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Hi @gavvet, just FYI, I got a similar message on steemit.chat from "gavvet." notice the "." at the end.
It was a request for SBD for an upvote. If you want further info, just chat or reply to any of my posts. I hope this helps clean things up. - @goldkey
Death was brought into the world, not only physical death in which you soul departs from the body and it's life force is gone so it decays. You could say it is energy being transfered from one place or another if you will. There is spiritual death which isn't a ceasing of existence but also a transfer of the state of the soul to either heaven in God's presence or hell away from God's presence. Since we are made in God's image and have consciousness as in God's image and likeness our soul is eternal. "The wages of sin is death(eternal separation from God) the gift of God is Eternal life through Christ Jesus Our Lord." Romans 6:23. ''Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned'' Romans 5:12. There is also different flesh, all flesh is not the same flesh and the state of animals and plant life are different than that of the Human soul. You could speculate but the Scriptures are sufficient for all godliness and doctrine needed to bring the individual to saving faith through the One and only sufficient sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Death Burial Resurrection Repentance and Faith(believe).
The phrase "eternal separation from God" is not a scriptural concept.
Rather, it is a Greek heresy that has been introduced in complete opposition to what all of scripture has to say.
Death is death. God says "The soul that sins will die." God is a consuming fire.
Man is mortal, he is not an eternal being as the Greeks supposed. Unless and until man comes to believe in Jesus and is granted eternal life, he is doomed to die.
According to scripture, eternal life is clearly and only a gift from God through Jesus. It is not part of the inherent nature of man.
Apart from Jesus, man is doomed to die... not to live forever apart from God.
I have heard of this but I struggle with the fact that when death comes and there is judgement. The soul that sins can do all harm that he pleases here then is just be no more and not face the consequence for their actions. I think of the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man and how there was agony in the fire or how there is weeping and nashing of teeth, where the fire is not quenched and worm does not die. Or being cast in the lake of fire.
Hello, friend @truconspiracy,
I thank you for your thoughtful response.
Please note that I did not say they would not have to face the consequences of their actions.
Every person who sins will face the fiery judgement of Jesus who is God. This is clearly presented here:
For a more thorough explanation of this, you may find this article helpful:
Regarding the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, I hope to write more on this in the future. Meanwhile, I would be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Man soul is by nature ethernal -why do you deny it ?
I deny it simply because scripture teaches that it is mortal. If you click on the links above, you can read the scriptures directly.
What evidence do you have that man's soul is naturally eternal?
All the atoms are in the nature ethernal , it is proven by science , why should the soul not follow the natural laws ?!
And what evidence do you have it isn't ethernal ?
If science proves anything, it is that atoms are not eternal. All atoms decay. All share a characteristic called "entropy." "Science" teaches that the universe as a whole is heading for heat death, running down, wearing out.
And so, if man's soul is a part of that nature, it too will wear out.
The evidence I have, repeating myself once again, is that God has warned man in the bible that he will die. Have you read the linked scriptures?
This was in fact God's first warning to man:
Atoms are ethernal, energy as well - principles of thermodynamics - energy is always recycled.
You say all atoms decay - no ... The atoms that decay are the radioactive ones not all as you pretend.
Bible is evidence ? No, bible is information - and btw - the words you quoted says adam will die but not the soul is mentioned - the level is physical , see the context.
You mean like with Gnosticism?
As I understand Gnosticism, they did believe in a multi-part being that included a "soul." I'm not sure if they believed that the soul survived death.
The Greeks, Socrates and Plato, taught the existence of an eternal soul in man. This was an idea that they got from the Egyptians - you can read about that in this article.
The idea of an innately eternal soul is not taught in the bible.
Interesting perspective. What do you mean by innately?
I mean that it is not part of the fundamental design of a human being. Being eternal is not a basic property of man. In fact, the opposite is true. We are as ephemeral as grass:
However, the good news is this: Jesus/God offers us permanence if we believe in him:
But how would you know. What if we are simply experiencing a reflection of another realm, like in the matrix? 🙂
Nice to see it from a different angle
Interesting perspective. But how does the energy transfer take place? 😄
That my friend is a mystery. I would suppose that it would be God calling soul from the body Maybe one day quantum physics, mechanics may shed some light on the transfer of the soul energy to a different state.
But why would anyone wanna do something like that? 😀
Truth is meant to be discovered eventually.
OK but how?
The illumination of the Holy Spirit leads people to the Truth(Christ) Faith is a necessary aspect.
Well I am not a believer, but didn't God plan everything from the start?
The questions we ask are in a sense, part his grand plan only and we can never make a difference.
Sorry if this sounds cynical, but yeah. My 2 cents.
@gavvet Another thought as i was looking at the post title.. As i can see, if God is not limited by time nor matter nor space, He sees everything that in a single timeline as a single instance, He knows what has happened and what is to come.. it doesn't really matter to Him,
Time is only applicable to finite matters or beings like us and the 7 days of creation is for our limited understanding to comprehend life itself maybe. And hopefully, when the limited comprehension, are we able to understand God a little better.
what do you think?
@gavvet i've just published a post about the 4 questions of life that one should ask.
Would love to hear from you on that post.
https://steemit.com/life/@daniel.tan/the-4-fundamental-questions-of-life-that-one-should-ask-what-do-you-think
If people only took notice of the most crucial factor on the Book of Genesis...
Genesis Chapter 1 (Recovery Version)
1- In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2- BUT the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters.
The BUT plays a vital role in bridging science & religion (Christianity). The BUT is a vast length of time, nobody knows how long the time frame is, but as science tells it, the earth is roughly 4.5-4.6 billion years old. That BUT translates the huge expanse between verse 1 & 2. Factor in the the timeline of life on earth, we can definitely say there was death before Adam, before the creation of man.
Just my 2 cents. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
well.. i realised that i tend to overthink at times.. but after reading this article, i asked myself, does it really matter if there is death before Adam. What would life be without God?
As what is worse than being separated from the One True God who loves and gives Himself for our redemption than death?
I dunno.. i come to term with death in that sense and sees that indeed, that is much hopelessness with the coming of the Risen King.
I believe the death that was introduced by Adam's fall was more spiritual(separation from God) than physical. If it was physical, he would have died immediately he ate the fruit.
I belief there was death before Adam and Adam had witnessed death even before he was sacked from the Garden of Eden. God created Adam and Eve to live happily ever after in the garden but HE did not create the animals so. Adam witnessed animals dying so he knew how death was like.
Goodmorning!
Wow these are some rather mind boggling questions you raise with this article. Hadn't thought about it much but now you got me started haha. I will try to give my version when i get on a computer, my phone is not super comfy for long texts.
I don't think a day was 24 hours and there is plenty of proof of other animals on this earth .But God did create the man and they did go through all the stages of the 7 days. That's just my thoughts
I had taken "Adam" to mean mankind, the progenitor being emblematic of the entire species. I also interpret the "fruit" as being a form of language, a form not yet arrived at. Thus the fruit is still alive, still becoming a part of the man's body and man is not dead. Man may die, but may be transformed into something completely different. The Logos or Word is none other than He.....
In Eden, Adam and all living beings were immortal and concept of death simply didn't work there. Even cells of anything that Adam was eating there continued to live along with his own life energy. If a man was immortal and the apple was immortal, was the man kinda stronger "for an apple" after he eats it for eternity??? When Adam was chased away from Eden, in that moment he was condemned to death. So things around him started to die and he was forced to cultivate and produce new food that had to die before/when he ate it. So there was death before Adam.
It depends what your definition of death is! 😄
Good questions! You might like the lectures on the significance of the biblical stories by Jordan Peterson here on my @julzee steemit blog. they are approx 90 minutes long but well worth fitting in listening. Seems to me that once Adam & Eve ate the apple that was it.
Interesting view, although I'm not a Christian myself but I like studying different religions and have read the bible few times. For me this part of the bible always seemed little too fairy taleish compared to other religious view on the beginning of mankind.
We have to ask ourselves is death a bad thing? What would happen if there was no death on earth? Also if we assume that Eden is a place that exists somewhere other than earth what would happen if there was no death in Eden as well?
And if we assume that Adam didn't get punished and sent to earth but instead stayed on Eden and started reproducing and humans started growing on Eden then unless the Eden has infinite space it would eventually run out of space like earth.
So from this point it is clear that death is a necessary process if there is to be any kind of life to exist anywhere in the universe unless Star trek turns into reality.
However all this assumption is purely from a pragmatic and materialistic view and if we consider the fact that every living thing can exist not only in material form but also in spiritual form, another words if what we call death is actually not The End but just another form of living then it can be interpreted in an entirely different way.
But then the real Truth can be very simple :)
Well, First of all, I believe the seven days were seven literal 24 hour days. Yom meant something particular to a Jew. The context indicates it was a 24 hour day.
As for Adam, there was no death before the fall. Scripture says ALL of creation fell. The consumption of plants was life unto life. Two kinds of death entered into the world at the fall, physical death of which God did first, and spiritual death, which is everlasting torment, for those who refused to believe either in the coming Messiah, or the risen Saviour.
There was no death before Adam, because Adam was first designed to live eternally before the fall. Death came after the Fall that's what the Bible implied here:
This needs a little more time to think over. Nice you bring it from a different angle. Mhhh not so easy... and it was already Very difficult. Thanks for let us think.
An interesting topic. It has the potential to be diggers even further. There are actually lots of remarks I didn't expected them to be. Good article.
This is a deep subject, one has to ponder and can only assume.
You raise a lot of interesting questions regarding the interpretation of the scriptures...As a theologian myself I honestly don't know where to start from because scriptures are often contradictory about matters like 'Life before Eden' or details of the forbidden fruit...Probably because the allegory of the story does not really explain in depth all those details...The only 'sure' thing I guess, according to what's written, is that Adam and Eve were immortals before their major sin, and they were about to die at some point after falling from Eden. I follow these series because I'm very interested in 'Adam's side' - since, as I mentioned before, I research on Lilith, his 'first wife'. Are you going to answer to any of those questions @gavvet? I'll be amazed to see!!! :D
the story of adam is intresting...but whether its true or not will always remain to be a topic of debate
Well, from the opinion of (Genesis 2:16–17), Death Is a Punishment introduced into the world by sin.
Looking at life in the garden of Eden before the introduction of sin, you will find out that all living things were vegetarians.. having to solely depend on plants for food (Genesis 1:29–30).
Now, we cannot consider plants being consumed as food as DEATH because in the biblical sense of nephesh chayyah, plants are not “alive” . Nephesh chayyah refers to the aspects of sentience, where human beings and other animals are both described as having nephesh. Plants, as an example of live organisms, are not referred in the Bible as having nephesh which literally means 'soul', although it is commonly rendered as "life" in English translations.)
So from my opinion, i think there was no death before Adam.
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adam is the first man created god according to my belief, if darwin theory is true then man does not need mother, because can change from ape to mother.
I do not think Evolution is at odds with Genesis, the underlying symbolism is exactly the same. The "big bang" theory of creation is also defined in Genesis. Look deeper, it's one in the same.
According to sumerian tablets dated about 6000BC is a story that states that man was created by the God Enki. It is implied that Homo sapien, Adam, man he was somehow genetically engineered. Somehow advancing the evolution of man that God created. The first version of "Adam" could not reproduce. Then Enki made another version.
yeah! Why I haven't thought of that until now. Are the animals immortal before man committed sin????? ..
Can we also include the animals in Eden garden? Did they ever die? Or are animals always disregarded when it comes to life and death(of the souls)?
@gavvet,
Actually I am not believing this Adam and Eva story! I believe everything made according to the cycle of the nature. But again a problem who made the nature... this is something like "who born first - egg or hen!"
So, personally I believe nature or the god made us all. Now we are here and we should understand that we are in a cycle of birth and death!
Nice article and an interesting topic! Hope people has different different perception about this topic! I could agree with all those opinions or viewpoints, because I don't know what was happened at that time :D
Cheers~
In my opinion, the very minute they ate of the tree, they died! Gen 3:7 reports that the eyes of both were naked and they knew that they were naked...
no read it this way the eyes of both were naked and they knew that they were died...this is because death is the end of the life of a person or organism; before this time, Adam and his wife were living the God life of Glory. there is no replacement for glory, it is either glory (life) or shame (death). the eating of the fruit created a permanent ending of vital processes in the supernatural. they began to do things that they had no knowledge of, for they first time, they heard the voice of God "walking"; they understood nakedness - voidness and emptiness without being taught; they adopted complaints (shifting blames) without be taught instead of accepting responsibilty. Before his death (the fruit), Adam was hundred percent a spirit man and his death made him physical.
fast forward, when the Lord God decided to redeem the world back to Himself, the process had to be taken, again. Having partaking of the tree of through Adam's (first Adam)disobedience we also had to partake of the tree of Life through Jesus (last Adam) obedience (Romans 5:19).
Adam's death was by disobedience that pushed man away from God BUT Jesus' death was by Obedience that brought man back to God. Death in this cases opened the chapter to another life; why for the first Adam it was to eternal damnation, for the last Adam it was to eternal Life. And mind you, eternal life is not a 'far-fetched, when you die you receive it thing' it is a life in Christ. Just as after Adam's death by eating the fruit men lived in the chapter opened by that act, when you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you begin to live eternal life in the world. Cause His death made it possible that as He is in Heaven, so are we on earth!
this is my opinion
I think Adam is an experiment, nothing more. There were a lot of such Adams before they scattered all over the planet, in different guises, however, like the Ev ... Perhaps
That will be a very interesting theory :) Who knows when the truth will be unfold??
Just thinking about this makes you dizzy. I don't believe there is an answer that can be found, I'm sure the creator knows the answer but will probably not share it.
I never heard that everybody in Eden was immortal , I wonder where that comes from. Eden was the general state of grace where humans were not troubled with self consciousness, much like an animal is never self conscious. Curiosity killed the cat, they ate of the tree of knowledge and there was no going back.
Perhaps every man is an ADAM and every woman an EVE and it is just an allegory for the dualistic energetic oneness of spiritual mankind.... hermaphrodite.... ying and yang..... Who knows... What do you think @gavvet
Does Eden have the same laws that we have in our universe, very simple question does the laws apply and Eden does it apply on earth. If you go for a little bit from earth maybe mars for instant , you'll find different law. Just think about it
in Islam belief, we have different thought and all based on Different sources. I think that is not a big matter as long as we believe that Adam is the first ma and the first prophet in the world.
Please take time to consider my point. Death cannot occur in the absence of life, but life can occur without death. Depending on how we define life, life must definitely occur first before death. In the case of Adam, we may consider that there may have been possible life before him, even those which are minuscule. In conclusion, death may have been present before Adam. Just my opinion :)
According to biblical belief was there not nothing? Until Gos created life? How can there be death without first life?
Everyone knows its adam and steve!!!
not quite!
I've been reading a lot of Neville Goddard recently, and I enjoy his interpretations of the bible.
He believes the entire bible is an Eastern metaphorical text designed to teach us about our states of mind.
His opinion is that the story of Adam and Even is a parable about human nature.
Adam represents the body and all material reality, and Eve represents the inner life, soul, or mind.
This is a little excerpt from his writings on the subject:
So I think, the question of 'Was there death before Adam,' perhaps becomes irrelevant when you think of this story not as a story of real people or a real historical event, but instead as a metaphorical lesson.
Neville Goddard has written so much on this subject - far more than I could waffle on about here!
But perhaps you might enjoy checking out some of his work? :)
Thanks for this post, it gave me a good excuse to put off doing the washing up which I'm supposed to be doing right now ha!
Sounds alot like what Jordan Peterson says. He seems to believe that the biblical stories are a representation of years & years of patterns of knowledge of what mankind learned but was not yet able to articulate through word ergo stories expressed what was known subconsciously but not cognitively understood. Things that were acted out and true but not yet able to be expressed any other way but story form.
Oh interesting, I've not heard of Jordan Peterson before. Thanks for the link, I'll check out the vid you posted. :)
Yw. He gave me a new perspective on religion. I've always considered myself a Christian (because I was brought up that way) but It really don't attend church etc. Not impressed with institutional religion. I myself questioned tradition and viewed it all as simple belief passed on. But after hearing Jordan's explanations as to how it all actually coincides with human nature (scientifically) psychologically and biologically it freegin blew my mind. His lectures are very long but if you listen a little here and there, I even fell asleep to them and had to replay them a few times..lol but sooo worth it. The knowledge and understssnding you gain is immeasurable. Makes you realize that it's not wise to reduce it all down to simple 'belief' that we can choose to do away with due to irrelevence. It is totally relevent!
What Adam eat was the fruit of good and bad and after their disobedience the tree of life was removed out of their sight. Had it been they lay their hands on the fruit of life death wouldn't have occurred.
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I don't believe the one who is here, was here was not supposed to die, simply every live creature spends its time and has to go
nice post..thanks for sharing this article about adam.I starting following you, I'm happy if you follow me too..i upvoted this post..
@gavvet, i have a poems. hope you have time to read and hope you like it..your upvote and resteem will really appreciated..
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https://steemit.com/poetry/@leslyfay/poetry-8-forget
https://steemit.com/poetry/@leslyfay/poetry-7-baby-seaching-for-the-love
https://steemit.com/philippines/@leslyfay/what-is-the-meaning-of-being-a-best-friend-for-you
What I think is that the story is , of course, symbolic. The garden of Eden was a place that was like heaven, where there is no duality and no good or bad.. just bliss..
When they left the garden for eating the apple, it is symbolic of coming to a place of duality and right and wrong, Earth! The apple eating was symbolic of this change into duality where there was suddenly something that was right or wrong.
It was inevitable that the apple was eaten as it is unavoidable to live outside of duality when we are in this body and consciousness. This is a dualistic universe!
Well I think animals died as it is normal but my own opinion is that all these are legends or bad translated books with a lot of modifications...
And I want to let people know there are people saying an username @gavvet. with a dot at the final is scamming on steemit.chat
I am not upvoting my own comments generally but I want this to be seen
Adam is a character from the Book of Genesis, the Old Testament, the Qur'an and Kitáb-i-Íqán. According to the creation myths of the Abrahamic religions he is the first man and according to the divine religion they are also the parents of all human beings present in the world. Thank you @gavvet
Don't believe in this fantastic story :)
Excellent thought provoking post. If we go with what the bible says we can assume that there was no death before Adam. However, that raises the question of how did nature exist because we know some animals are food to others. Probably God had created these animals not to eat each other but once Adam sinned this was reversed and death came in. Just my thoughts :)
awesome
Deep thoughts!