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RE: Got Jesus?

in #religion6 years ago

Again, I'm not interested in discussing the Rapture. If you cared to look you would see that all the passages you use to support your view have plausible alternate interpretations. Personally, I think the entire exercise is counterproductive as I believe I stated before.

I agree that Christ came to teach us how to live but more importantly to pay for the right to wipe our slates clean at judgement day.

Okay. I don't think I have a big problem with that. I wouldn't place the emphasis on the afterlife, but whatever.

I’ve made some edits to the post thanks to you but yes it’s most definitely aimed developing a healthy fear of God and the wrath he will pour out on the unsaved rebels at the rapture.

Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. I don't think it's healthy to think God will torture people in Hell forever. Most of us know people who aren't Christian, and that kind of believe breeds resentment, even if people don't want to admit it. Fear is coercion as any good Libertarian should know, and it's morally wrong to use coercion.

These warnings are spelled out in the Bible are real and your attitude gives people a false sense of immunity.

I don't see how. Does the idea of being resurrected to stand in front of your Creator for Judgement sound pleasant to you? There's plenty of room for punishment without the need for eternal torture.

I’ve also added these edits to the blog post because I do not have a clear understanding of what the Bible says about eternal torture or annihilation.

Read "The Fire that Consumes." Or, for a more balanced approach, read "Two Views of Hell A Biblical and Theological Dialogue" Fudge and Peterson. PM me if you want, I'll send it to you in the mail.

But if you would care to present a summary of what you believe will be the final result for the unsaved and why it matters other than solely if it’s different than the alleged slander of God.

It doesn't really matter what I believe. I can tell you what I think the bible teaches, though. I think it teaches pretty clearly that a: the wages of sin is Death, b: the gift of God is eternal life, c: whoever believes in Jesus will not perish but will be given eternal life, d: the end of the wicked will be eternal destruction. All of those are direct quotes from the Bible.

I think there's plenty of room for varying degrees of punishment and varying duration of torment if that is what God wants, but I don't see that spelled out in the Bible.

I believe it matters because 1: if you say that you are teaching what God said then it is important to accurately represent what God said. 2: it is a slander on God's character, and millions of people around the world agree, which leads to 3: it is a hindrance to people accepting the Gospel. This wouldn't be a concern if Eternal torture were actually what the bible taught, but if it's not then people like you are unnecessarily turning people away from God by your description of His character that millions of people find repulsive.

I’ve read that some people believe that all souls made in Gods image will eventually be purified and accepted into heaven; is that what you believe too?

I certainly hope so, but I don't think that's what the Bible teaches. It's another discussion but there are quite a few biblical reasons for thinking this, so I hold out hope. In fact, it's a much stronger case that the case for eternal torture.

I have a question for you about the article you posted. Do you know what LIgonier ministries is? Because you say that people have free will, but Ligonier teaches that, and I quote, "God foreordains whatsoever comes to pass." They literally believe that God predestines some people from the beginning of creation to spend eternity in Hell. They do not believe people have free will, but rather that people are predestined as either elect or damned from before they are even born. How great does that God sound?

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I’m not a follower of any particular ministry. Anderson’s or Ligoners. The issues (proofs) he presents about eternal damnation is pretty widely accepted by Christianity but not his views on predestination. That’s a farce.

Anderson has a video on the eternal punishment in Hell that uses the same scriptures Ligoner uses but doesn’t teach anything supporting predestination. He also preaches a lot of hate messages and a reprobate doctrine I disagree with as well.

For me the concept that everyone will be proven and eventually saved sits well with me so does the Mormon doctrine of baptisms for the dead but they’ve got some crazy other stuff that’s simply heresy.

What worked for me to see the light is Anderson’s videos on the Post Trib Rapture. Scared me into a voluntary relationship with God. So that’s where I’m at.