The Executive Order by Obama was approved and did not face federal court as being "unconstitutional".
As for Trump's actions. His action is a direct attack on immigrants. The problem is really him deporting people that literally have grown up here in the USA. Imagine you being raised here in the USA and came here when you were just an infant and going back to a country where you probably don't even speak the language of correctly as an adult. That is completely immoral. And as a libertarian getting deported is completely immoral, period.
Trump is getting the rightful opposition that he deserves for pushing this back to Congress to push his opposition to immigration. It has been clear, he is not pro immigration. He's doing what he can to limit it, even legal immigration.
Just because DACA didn't face a court challenge doesn't mean it was "approved". The Obama administration implemented this policy unilaterally. The DA in DACA stands for Deferred Action, it was intended as a temporary solution to an immigration problem that was intended to be resolved via "comprehensive immigration reform". (how many times have you heard that phrase?) Anyway Congress never dealt with the issue so here we are.
The only thing done today was to eliminate any additional DACA applications from being processed and attempt to force Congress to deal with it in a lawful manner. I would guess most of the opposition Trump is receiving is due to the fact that Congress would rather do what they do best, kick the can down the road. Making law that's fair and constitutional regarding immigration is long overdue.
DACA could have been challenged federally as being unconstitutional. And as such since it wasn't the claim by the OP @davebrewer is false. He claimed that DACA was unconstitutional. So clearly it wasn't unconstitutional if they didn't proceed legally.
"Fair and constitutional" fair and constitutional to whom?
The current immigration status already prefers US citizens above immigrants. (Taxes and others benefits are not included as they are separate from the actual act of
immigrating). To come to the US it's quite difficult and yet to leave, Americans just have to pay 100$ and get their passport easily. One a few months some get approved in a few weeks.
If we want something "constitutional" then let Congress remove barriers to open travel between countries. That is equally as constitutional as more regulations on travel.
What happened to freedom in America? Ideals of freedom are really skewed by the minds of Americans.
No esecholo. Just because it wasn't challenged in court doesnt mean it isn't constitutional.
If you shoot someone you committed murder, no matter whether you go to court or not.
If the President is unilaterally writing laws, then that is unconstitutional, no matter whether it is taken to court or not.
If DACA is such a great law (as written by Obama), why not trust in Congress to write the same law and pass the same law.
If Congress writes and passes a new version of DACA, that is fine. That is what Congress is supposed to do per the Constitution.
In the USA you are innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.
If you shoot someone you can be charged with murder or you protected yourself in self defense. Murder suggests the unjust death of someone else (using law as a basis).
Sorry, but Executive orders and deferred actions are legal unless officially challenged by the court and deemed illegal.
Political science 101
Your opinion of what is legal or not doesn't change the fact of what the government deems is legal or not. Your opinion is 100% irrelevant to reality.
the Constitution says what is legal.. not if it gets to court or not. Only citizens are given the protections of the Bill of Rights, the Bill of Rights limits what our govt. is allowed to do. The protections (i.e.) innocent until proven guilty, protects citizens not the 3 branches of our government. Political Science 101? please tell me you didn't pass the class with your level of understanding. If the govt. breaks their agreement with the citizens.. they are automatically illegal... the people of the USA have the Bill of Rights - the govt. does not. Please review PS 101
The Constitution suggests what is legal, remember federal court cases of what the Constitution means determines it's legal meaning.
The Constitution is not the end all be all and if it was then I would be free to yell that I have a bomb in an airport terminal and not be charged with disturbing the peace... Look at the regulations for gun rights... The law doesn't end at the Constitution. The Constitution is nothing but a suggestion, it means little to those who are shifting it's meanings.
So yes... The court does determine it. Not the Constitution.
"Only citizens"... Wrong.. any "person" have rights under the Constitution (including illegal immigrants, you can look it up as it seems you do not understand political science in America).
Don't down talk to me when you actually believe the interpretation of the Constitution is not determined by the court. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Our freedom of speech is regulated, our right to privacy and freedom from unjust search, seizure and freedom from cruel punishment is regulated... And most of all the right to bare arms is regulated.
Don't be an uneducated hillbilly with that simple minded reasoning of American political science.
The Bill of Rights is not the Constitution
If you are in the US illegally, you are subject to deportation by the government, subject to the condition that you have constitutional due process to prove that you are in fact in the US legally.
If you are here illegally, you will not be able to prove you are here legally, and you are subject to deportation.
That is the law.
You may not like the law, but that is the law.
Until Obama decided to take it upon himself to rewrite the law and make special exceptions for Dreamers.
Because he chose not to do this through Congress, the Executive Order was always subject to being reversed by the next President, because what Obama did was not passed into law via Congress.
That is how the Constitution works.
In the US illegal immigrants are protected by the constitution and are then sent to court to determine their sentence (hence why sanctuary cities exist, which is legal). Illegals have rights, there is no debate on the subject.
Dreamers was a modern move with DACA but illegal immigrants had rights within the Constitution even before Obama was born.
I didn't take a stand on whether it was constitutional or not, I did try to make the case that DACA is not law. It is a policy implemented by a former administration via executive order. I suspect it would have been challenged if not intended as a temporary solution.
Fair is relative, it's going to be interpreted differently depending on which side of the argument you're on. Constitutionality if questioned can be resolved in the courts.
Seems like the rest of your post is an attempt to compare international travel and immigration. Not the same thing.
I understand your point of EO's.
International travel AND immigration are associated with one another.
Getting deported is immoral? Who writes your material? Fact: if you are here illegally you're breaking the law. It doesn't matter how long you've been here... if you break the law you get punished. Period.
As far as Trump not wanting immigrants here... I stand up and applaud... loudly... it's about damn time a president actually stood up for the American people... #MAGA
If you earn Steem and do not file taxes for the money you earned (and further trade that money in other exchanges) then you are breaking the law. If you speed in a vehicle going over 1 mph or 1 kph above the speed limit, you are breaking the law. If you Jaywalk. You are breaking the law.
There is a reason why, in the USA, there is jury nullification. Also in US history there wasn't strong controls on US border and migration laws federally until the opposition to the Chinese around 99 years after the US was established.
Damn time a president stood up for the American people? Bush and Obama bombed and slaughters hundreds of thousands of people for America. Raegan, and FDR did the same... Etc. Your presidents have murdered, cheated, had people enslaved and economically oppressed just to protect your American people from 'terrorism', famine, violence, and from competition..
"#MAGA" is complete bullshit to foolish tools that believe your presidents didn't put you people first. Being against migration doesn't help America. Quite the opposite (immigration and tourism is dramatically down), inflation is still relatively the same while wages haven't bounced back significantly, and Trump still isn't paying off the debt.
Trump supporters are being played. The market is going to bounce back and yet be ultimately weakened by more protectionism.
If I get a speeding ticket I broke the law. I accept my consequences and pay my fine. Even if it's a law I don't personally agree with (seatbelts)... the law is the law. Without it there would be no order.
As far as our presidents bombing other people to protect "American interests" that's bull shit... they did that because they like to interfere in shit that ain't our business.. and for profit...y'all got right to be mad about that... but if you come to our country or we go to yours the law must still be obeyed
Order? So we must be ordered now?
Please, if it would be the crown. Can I smoke a blunt in my room without fear of imprisonment or the very possible fear of execution by the police.
There is a fine line where we must determine what is moral and what is not. You conclude that people should be deported because it is the law and thus is moral because it's law. Or do you have another justification for deportation to be moral?
So what do you say about civil rights movements? Civil disobedience? Etc. I suppose the creation of this country (USA). I guess they all should have just followed the law, according to your position. Instead of avoiding taxes, the founders of this country should have not started a violent uprising and just wait it out. Martin Luther King Jr. Shouldn't have promoted nonviolent civil disobedience and just told everyone to wait it out as well. You see your position is just as dangerous and weak as anyone else in history who just wanted to wait things out to see where they would go. It's cowardly.
Now instead of waiting things out, you want people to obey your bullshit laws because you particular like a certain set of laws that you think is moral.
Law does not equal morality and learning from the founders of this country, from civil rights movements and the creation of Bitcoin and Steem these were all movements against their respective governments not in support of it.
There are tons of laws I think are bullshit and shouldn't be there but they are. And should be enforced. Some of our laws are immoral. We are not perfect. Do we need a revolution? Probably. But if you choose to live somewhere you should abide by their laws... we (USA) didn't like your laws. Rather than try to overthrow your country we left and made our own.
Thanks Dave. Congress makes laws, not the President.
And if you aren't following the law, you need to accept the punishment
deferred actions and executive orders are legal actions by the presidents and they only become illegal if federal judges or civil groups make a claim and take it to court, and only after it has been challenged and deemed illegal do they become illegal. That is the essence of law.
It's only fair. When that American got caned in Singapore he deserved it. He broke their laws. I didn't bitch it was unfair... if i break a law i expect to be punished if caught... and I accept the consequences... if someone else breaks the law and there are no consequences for them how is that fair to me? The law is the law. If you don't like it there are steps you can take to change it
They didn't "leave"... They murdered people and attacked the innocent to form their "nation". Quit ignoring history. America was a colony of the English empire. They were not sovereign. They broke the laws and the "American founders" were enemies of the state... They were terrorists.
Oh i get that they murdered and attacked people... I'm part Cherokee Indian... how could I not understand...
Was a colony of the English empire.. y'all should have enforced your law of you felt we broke it.... oh you tried... yes our founding fathers were terrorists... they recognized that the English were weak and couldn't protect what they thought was theirs... the terrorists took charge... that's called a revolution..
https://dtube.video/#!/v/auraculus/en4c0w6g ..... listen to obama