It has come to my attention that the account hive.curation is also participating in some sort of vote-trading/self-voting scheme. This time a bit different from the 50% beneficiary one we discussed recently but in general pretty similar.
Here's a link to one of their recent posts explaining how they work: https://peakd.com/delegation/@hive.curation/delegate-your-hp-and-get-20-times-upvote-daily-equivalent-apr-up-to-26-or-apr-16-return---day337-20210505t214254z
In another post they mentioned that the daily report, which is automated and they self-vote, has a risk of being downvoted at Hive, so they'll suspend it, but they still continued doing them.
I'm sure the reason for the downvotes was because others also noticed this scheme being unfair to proof of brain, the EIP and the general consensus of how posts should be rewarded on Hive. They also flaunt a 16% APR ROI which is pretty juicy but if you know how Hive works you can tell that's mainly only possible by front-running high earning posts automatically without so much doing curation. This is fine in it's own as the blockchain and rules have allowed it but will come to an end quite soon with the next hardfork.
The real problem here of course is the "get 20x vote of your delegated HP" making it pretty much worse than the usual votetrading circles on Hive.
Although votetrading is a bit more difficult to judge and I believe will become a bigger problem with linear curve to include also smaller accounts, I'm sure we'll try our best soon to prevent that as well or at least penalize it a bit once we have these other issues under control.
Back to the ironic name @hive.curation, they have a whitelist of the accounts they allow to get the 20x vote based on their delegation but that doesn't change the fact that these accounts are self-voting up to 20x by delegating to them. The usual vote-trading is to circumvent the convergent curve to cast votes on each other to hit the tax limit which in the end is practically self-voting 10x per day by just posting once as long as you have 9 other vote-traders in your circle automatically voting for your content.
Hive.curation takes advantage of many of the delegators not posting and being okay with the 16% returns they receive (which also stems from front-running that will pretty much go extinct soon). So what I propose is to throw some downvotes on these delegators that are receiving a 20x vote on their delegations on their posts to reduce both that vote and the returns of the hive.curation account.
This isn't proof of brain, this isn't in line with the EIP and how we want hive curation to work. It is even more important to set these ground rules before the linear curve so there won't be a "oh if they're doing it then I'm gonna do it as well"
thought process following the hardfork.
Before I take action I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this. Cheers.
PS. Not setting beneficiary to hbdstabilizer on this post cause if it's anything like the other one with 400 comments I'm probably going to spend way too much time on it, if not feel free to downvote, I might as well.
I'm sending them curation because I'd like to contribute to a growing userbase on HIVE. I see that hive curation can vote delegate your posts but I'm not sure if that's ever been done to one of mine. Curation trails are somewhat of an abstraction for me. I also donate HP to many different users, including delegating HP to new HIVE users who were just onboarded to get them more account power.
I like the idea of delegation and curation but I can definitely see it being gamed somehow. I'm mostly delegating to hive curation for the APR.
So I mean, I'm honestly not trying to game the system in any way. The past few weeks I haven't posted a ton to HIVE because I haven't had a lot to say. I don't really want to contribute to a sea of digital detritus on HIVE personally. Posts like yours help teach novices like me what's going on behind the scenes as it can get really abstract at times.
I've been watching this type of abuse for months now. Do a shitpost and get an upvote from them in exchange for your delegation. This needs to stop.
You mean your plagiarized shitpost?
You clearly haven’t visited my account but thank again if you feel theia way why not take the door 🚪 that brought you here it’s a free choice of blogging we are not holding a gun to your head. And the fact that you wrote this comment says it all. There are multiple ways to enjoy life hive is not for you apparently @xiko
What for you is bullshit, as you rightly said, for others, who like the subject of culinary arts, is definitely a good publication. Quality, my lord, is a subjective thing. Maybe for you, (because before issuing my humble opinion, I took a walk through your blog, dear @xico where there is only one publication, which was considered PLAGIARISM). So, from what I could see in your personal blog, is that plagiarism and a poor and terse publication of some fat guys fighting, is quality content. I even read your response to hive watchers and it is offensive from every point of view, which speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.
Maybe for you too the fact that on Steemit there is a mob that only supports their close friends and close friends, regardless of the quality of the photos, impeccable writing and attractive presentation (because I know that on that platform they DON'T support quality content, at all).
The fact that users like @acidyo, hand in hand with @ocdb wants to do a cleanup on the platform, I think it's great, because they do support users with different content. Because just because I don't like writing about math, for example, doesn't mean I think that's bad content.
That's why diversity exists on @hive and is supported.
Since you find Steemit so wonderful (which I respect, but couldn't disagree more) and Hive seems to you not to be, why don't you go over there, with your wonderful Zumo fight posts?
But to come and sully the platform with your offenses and bad words, says an awful lot about you. Of course, everything your words say about yourself, is so negative.....
If I only understand Pictures hahaha you are a clown @xiko and really funny!
I'm just expressing my view on the many flaws of this Hive thing which admittedly CAN'T GET THE GROWTH thing right.
Maybe you don’t get how it works, and that’s fine we don’t judge well I don’t you are the reason I blog even harder to prop e you wrong , than again you won’t see it because you left hopefully to make your dreams come true on another platform
Hello, I just saw my name on a list and I am not very sure what it means. So it is not right to delegate Hp to hive.curation? 4 months back I found out about delegations and even posted a post for help and guess what, no one answered to me! This is a big problem, not being noticed at all. later when I delegated to hive.curation I got some votes for my posts and after that my content is getting rewarded which is heartwarming. My luck turned around when I even got a reward from OCD curation trail. I don't know if some of you people realize how much time and energy is put into this to build a blog like ours and there are probably no words to describe how sad was it to see your post with IDK 20 photos and 15 minutes read gets 25 cents. On the other hand, you see someone getting a fortune for a blurred photo of their lunch and bang 20$...
If someone will say "that's because you are not involved enough in community" I can just answer "Please let me in". I tried to get into contact with foodies bee hive to be a part of curators and there was no answer. Discord is quiet since...
I was trying to be a part of the community since Steem and always a rekt. To be honest, Hive gave us back hope to achieve something big on blockchain. After all aren't we the pioneers of this?
However, please let me, someone explain what is the RIGHT WAY to DELEGATE your HP and be a part of rewards. My goal is to be here in 10 years and to climb to that "whale" badge, to have my own contests, community and still provide Hive with quality content.
For any answer, I will be grateful
The point is that you shouldn't expect votes just because you delegate to a project. Especially not at these returns they're marketing, that's just playing on people's greed. I realize you're not after that, you just want fair curation for your efforts and content and while there are a lot of fair curation projects out there it's not easy to be able to cover everyone all the time. Consistent reward and attention is just something that has to be earned by being consistent, actively engaging with other likeminded people who share the same interests in posts as you, etc. Of course having some stake and weight behind your votes to reward others helps as well.
We're all about making curation and reward distribution more fair and wide and I hope you do get curated more often but going this route through hive.curation is not the right way. I can also tell you that your OCD curation was definitely not because you delegated to hive.curation or cause their vote got you more visibility. @abh12345 made some good recommendations on curation projects to delegate to who don't take into account who delegated but curate based on the content, effort and contributions of the authors.
Yes, you are right. I am not about greed but some fair reward. My plan is to catch this bull market (now when I am aware of how crypto works and will not wait to lose everything), sell most of the Hive for good money and later buy them back and be something here. My 100% vote now is a joke and I would like to support people with higher rewards.
Sure, I will remove delegation from hive.curation and will appreciate some good recommendations for the best delegations as well! I guess SBI (Steem Basic Income) is on the same page here, right?
Thank you for the help and your explanation
You can delegate to @ecency, @curangel, @ocdb, @ua-promoter, @leo.voter (For leo-rewards), @dustsweeper, @steembasicincome (sbi/hbi) or @tipu + many more.
Thank you for your answer. Ok will check all this. But isn't SBI on the same page as hive.curation?
The APR for delegating to Hive SBI is only about 6% after curation, which is lower than just filling our regular lease requests on dlease.
People support Hive SBI because they support our vision of account-based curation, and providing a reliable support level to worthwhile accounts, not so much for the APR.
(On the other hand, we calculate APR at the bottom of the curation reward curve, so if the votes are pushing you up the curve your actual APR could be much higher... and when the curve goes away the APR will be much higher for everyone)
Does @steembasicincome also create accounts for users or is the RC not used?
No. Sbi brings value to the Hive ecosystem by creating accounts for new users (onboarding) just like Ecency do and Sbi isn't trying to maximize the rewards for its delegators.
Thanks for this list. The only place I've been able to begin to look for curation things is hive.vote.
Do you know of a good list? You said +many more, Im wondering if there is a site with a list of accounts like this I could delegate too
Curie is another. Actifit also pays out Hive.
I dont have a list, those above was just off top of my head xD
hodlcommunity also pays out dividends..
I know a lot of tokens you can help and earn hive aswell, if you are interested in that xD
I have no problems being fully transparent with this stuff, in hopes that I'm being a good community member and not trying to game the system at all.
Here's my current delegation. Almost every account on here is either a friend of mine or a HIVE community or HIVE game that I really enjoy. I haven't undelegated anything yet from the account in question, but that's cause Im here asking for for a good list to look into :)
I have read enough to this point to realize the problem, I agree with @wnfdiary regarding how difficult it is to be visible on the platform and what I was looking for is to have more visibility. The content that I publish is my own and I have tried to make it of quality. I publish little content due to lack of time, and if I had wanted to abuse the votes in favor, I would have published any content daily. Thanks to @cwow2 for the available delegation recommendations. and I hope not to be added to a blacklist for simple ignorance. I am just a simple user trying to grow on this platform. Thanks...!
I have been delegating to hive.curation for a month now. The returns I recieve help me support the NGO I have founded to bring more awareness, generally and of relationships in particular.
Some background - I have joined steem in 2016, loved the project, and bought some coins (price was 1 steem=$3.5). The good old days 😊. Throughout the years I have supported many projects on steem and hive. I was delegating to people from Venezuela in their times of financial distress, I have run contests and rewarded steemians in order to help the newcomers. For a year I have lovingly delegated to project hope for half the returns I could recieve from bots. For two years I have published valuable posts each day, then took a break for a year. Lately, as said, I have renewed my writing passion and my habit to publish daily.
I know for a fact that my posts are valuable and help many people on their path to realization, empowerment and well being.
I'm thankful that projects like steem and hive can support what I and other valuable contributors do.
Yes, indeed, I'm aware of exploitation, I'm aware of people who publish one image and recieve high voting.
I for one focus on my authenticity, etiquette and self conscious.
If I'm doing something illegal please enlighten me and I will refrain at once.
Nothing you're doing is wrong, it's the fact that he's gaining a lot of delegations with the promise to vote up people 10-20x what they delegate which becomes wrong. The default consensus of voting is in general that you receive 50% curation rewards and no one minds it if you self-vote a few times per day on deserving content as long as you're actively using your stake to distribute it to other deserving authors as well. By delegating and receiving 10-20x vote back, or any vote really is just masking self-votes and in this example it's as if you're completely voting for yourself 10-20x per day which is unfair towards everyone else and at the same time new and deserving users who should be receiving some curation. The fact he offers such a high APR to delegators who don't post is just cause when those who post don't have any new posts out he maximizes curation returns by front-running popular posts.
TL;DR: you shouldn't expect votes back on your posts just cause you've delegated to an account. It's similar as some people who are just blindly autovoting other's posts just so they can get an autovote back from them and completely ignoring the rest of stakeholders and authors effectively just voting themselves 100% every day and getting both max curation rewards + post rewards when the latter should be earned from the content and other contributions than just whatever stake and voting power you have.
Hope that cleared it up a bit. This isn't the only example of this and I'm sure we're going to start tackling blatant vote-trading in the future as well. Here's an example of blatant vote-trading, no matter what he posts, what engagement he gets, etc, it's almost always the same users voting on him and he voting them back: https://peakd.com/@marfonso/posts
What I liked about hive.curation was the fact I could reward the followets/voters of my posts. And since I knew I'd publish daily, I thought this would be a good way to thank them.
Ironically, now that the voting will cease I think my rewards will increase actually. :)
I do understand your points, and it's good there are people like you who monitor the system to correct glitches or abuse of the pool.
However, one should be careful not to throw the baby with the water, i.e, not harming contributors like myself whose only "sin" is to want to be rewarded for their work (also through delegations).🙂
My two cents to the discussion. I will, obviously, follow any rules implemented by the witnesses. This is our community and it's our common interest to keep it alive and flourishing.
Yeah that's why I gave everyone time to rethink their delegations and what the issue is, even though I would've wanted to go downvote whatever he had voted up in exchange for delegations considering how he had given two 100% downvotes to a user with 5k hp who dared downvote his automatic post updates which I found disgusting. Instead I went and countered his downvotes and downvoted hive.curation's active auto posts (which he also decided to retaliate back on my posts with other people's delegation - such as yours) and I chose to wait it out and give everyone a chance to read for themselves and make their own decision. I'm sure there's better projects out there people can delegate to than one who only does this, especially with an owner who behaves that way.
My life experience tells me that any dispute can be resolved when there is will from both sides. I hope the same will apply here.
@Hive.curation has offered an unparallel APR of 18%, which is needed to carry on my social projects.
However, I do agree that good for one person cannot be based on harming others. I hope there is a win-win solution here.
I don't really understand how a certain APR is needed, when it at the same time means manual curators and others are the ones getting less APR since we all share the same rewardpool, but that's coming to an end with the next hardfork either way so no point talking about it. But yes, would've been nice if his actions hadn't been dirtier than any words I may use when calling out assholes like that, but I won't be as nice in the future if I see him or any other similar attempts to skew rewards in favor of a few so the main perpetrator can get a bigger cut at the cost of everyone else on the chain.
I see they have retaliated on someone who dared to downvote them. I'm against vote trading as we lack decent PoB curation as it is. Should I downvote your post to help the rewards distribution?
Delegating for profit is vote selling.
I'm not sure it's a black and white thing. Most people will expect something back for delegating. It could be a share of rewards. I delegate to a load of small accounts with no expectation of anything back. I do have issues with votes being given with no account of quality as that harms Hive.
Yes, the autovoting from a 'curation project' is certainly an issue.
As are platforms that facilitate selling your vote wholesale weeks at a time.
I know those are popular, but so are drugs.
Both are caustic in the same way.
Oh they have? Mind sharing more info on who/how much/etc?
and yeah feel free to, I'll wait for a bit to see how much more time this post takes out of me but will dv tomorrow or so if not (or if others downvote in the meantime, I'm sure ctime will wake up soon). I promise I won't retaliate. ;D
Couple by @deepresearch DV'd by 100%, so taking off a lot more than he could.
Thanks, countered them.
Thanks for reaction!
Pretty disgusting behavior to downvote someone that much for downvoting his shitty automated reports, especially since he's doing it with his delegator's stake. I'll be keeping an eye on his upvotes in the near future and hopefully posts like these and others reading this will make his delegators aware of how he uses their stake and along with the upcoming linear curve there won't be a reason to continue delegating to him anymore.
It sounds like the next hardfork will make some voting activities less lucrative. I get that some will keep automating it, but anything to encourage more genuine curation is welcome. Of course some will be looking to ways to exploit even that. It's an endless arms race.
I fully expect more self-voting, vote-trading in circle with even smaller accounts since convergent curve will be removed and some current curation maximizes starting to vote way higher on certain accounts with some possible off-chain deals for getting a higher cut for the votes. We'll have to try our best to counter all of that.
@acidyo. Can you explain to me what the different is between how hive.curation is doing what he is doing to what Ecency is doing??
I delegate to hive.curation and get hive, thats generated through upvoting members and posting posts.
I alao delegate to Ecency where I get hive and points, I can then exchange the points for upvotes = paid upvotes.
Same with actifit. Exchange points for upvotes.
Where is the big different between all of those and maybe even others??
The difference is we earn those Ecency points by being active on the platform which are then ours to do with as we wish. This means supporting other Hive content producers as well as many other options. "Vote trading" or whatever involves a mirror I guess.
You don't have to be active. You can earn it from delegation and just use other interfaces :)
With all due respect, I didn't say have to. I'm not familiar with the delegation side of Ecency, I assume you're awarded ESTM the same you would be awarded Hive by delegating to OCD, Curangel, etc. We then power up, exchange, trade, those earned Hive. If I'm mistaken, let me know. Those earned Hive dividends on the delegation are then ours to do with as we wish the same as those ESTM which have multiple ways to earn.
Leaving your app on earns, each reblog or post earns, commenting, voting, etc, they all earn because it's your Blockchain activity. Once earned, they're yours to do with as you wish.
What Acidyo brought to our attention here, including that hive.curation screenshot he attached which looks pretty shady to me is questionable. What good-karma and ecency have going is not shady or questionable and I don't think considering them a scapegoat is cool when an account is in question.
You are reward ESTM points from Delegation + Hive. What I question is that you can use ESTM to exchange for Upvotes which is another way of paying for Upvotes.
So I struggle to see the difference in paying for upvoting with delegation or with points exchanged for me that 2 things are the same.
Now with ESTM, you are not on an automatic whitelist and you can't assume you will get an upvote with by using ESTM. You can try and if the Ecency team redeem your post good enough, they will allow it and this is the biggest difference I think
When you spell out the difference like that it's a fairly significant one, we're in full agreement.
Ecency is my choice front end, I've seen them mentioned one other time now when a vote sharing account is in question and I can't help but do this because I, personally, earn ESTM and think they're good for the Blockchain. Points allow me to increase vote value of content I appreciate by adding much as $1.60 (last time I checked) which is nearly double my vote strength.
Ye it is :D
Ecency also uses the RC for creating accounts for new users therefor helping with onboarding which has always been problem for Hive, that another way to add value here ^^ :D
I'm not sure, never looked into them properly. Maybe @good-karma can give us some insight on that.
I'm assuming there's limits and it's not offering just self-votes back but also something that highlights your posts on their dapp as it goes through it. I also doubt the focus there is to maximize rewards for posts and returns for delegators where that's the main shtick here with hive.curation.
As you said yourself the 16% APR is too good to ignore, yet you ignore the effects it may have on the ecosystem or your investment in general compared to proper curation and distribution of inflation.
Delegation to
@ecencygives Ecency points daily and we started to return all curation reward back to delegators because we mainly need delegation for onboarding people. Points have some use cases within Ecency where you can promote and boost content, tip others, etc. all reviewed and we do manually curation. We don't promote self voting or have any special rule for self voting. I will just mention @cwow2 so he sees as well. Also we will likely remove all this hassle once RC delegation is out so we can continue onboarding people...Yeah I figured there's more to it than what was mentioned, the main drive for delegations being account credits is really good and I respect that, at the same time returning all curation rewards to delegators. Thanks for chiming in.
I understand how it works, I just have trouble seeing how thats different :D
I delegate to lots of different things including Ecency, but also Hive.curation.
Ecency never promises a vote, since all reviewed you might not get curated at all. Here from what I understand problem is automated self voting encouragement. Haven’t read in details just quickly skimmed through the post.
That is a good point.
Well its like self-voting since 20x is getting advetised for delegations above 5000k.
Under that you just get the hive curation but no vlotes
Also it may every promise a vote, but it can be a bit scruwed. I try to test this, where I boost different kind of posts and from what I can see, if a post doesn't have a picture then its not considered to be worthy.
But some of my actifit posts are worthy and I would say that a lot of my other posts are way more valuable that just actifit posts.
Oh I didn’t know that, me personally don’t mind if post doesn’t have any images, so that maybe personal preference of curator
So if Hive.curation made a token on HE and you could exchange those tokens you earn via delegation for upvotes, then it would be ok and legit?
That just sounds like the same thing with a side token. There's no extra value being created or efforts being put into curation, etc.
Okay so thats the difference. So because of onboarding efforts from Ecency and Actifit and other added values to the Hive ecosystem, than that makes it okay to exchange points for upvotes or getting upvote just from using the app (actifit).
I'm unsure about actifit but ecency does place a lot of value on Hive with their dapp and like good-karma mentioned above the main point behind the delegations and point system is not to enrich or unfairly reward the delegators and their users compared to the rest of stakeholders.
I agree. Ecency is creating a lot of value for hive and I use their mobile exclusively.
I just think the margin is thin and tricky when it comes to stuff like this.
But I have undelegated 1k from Hive.curation now :)
@cwow2, I'm asking myself the same question.
I don't know about actifit but I can't see how using ecency points to boost your own post with an upvote up to $3.17 is different than what hive.curation does.
I have no take in either by the way, just trying to understand why one is ok, but not the other.
My understanding from this post is that the main problem is self voting, whatever way it happens, no?
Well, personally I never do it simply because it doesn't make sense to me and is unfair to everybody else. However, the authors of most of the posts I read and upvote do it. I've also actually noticed a few influential people on Hive doing it. One of them was actually mentioned and commented on this post.... I find it a bit ironic to point the fingers on one side at the little guys but let it go on the other because it's a friend or someone who's doing a lot for the community.... we should all be equal, no?
Well. Your self-upvote is 1-1 equal to your HP stake. But if you delegate 1000hp to hive.curation then you can get an upvote x20 = 200000 hp. Thats where the unfairness is
Wholly shit what kinda war did I just get tagged into with that other post by creativeblue and hivecuration...
I love your face acidyo, never change. LoL
they probably pulling at their last strings before they realize they should just stop their greedy scheme
Downvoted because I was practicing using that button.
I am now going to retaliate on your whole family.
I have had to re-read this post a second time for better understanding but still not clear on the entire, self voting, 20% voting etc.
Self voting is something I don't indulge in, spreading the wealth is better idea to me than self voting myself.
I might as well undelegate my HP, to free my account off downvotes due to unfair actions resulting in indirect consequence on my account.
It's not 20% voting, they're offering delegators a 20x vote.
So if you delegate 10k hp, you'd get an upvote worth 200k hp. That's effectively self-voting 20x, and just cause you're whitelisted it doesn't make autovoting your content okay as we all know and has been proven time after time authors quickly tend to abuse autovotes with less and less quality posts and more farmy content instead.
Where the hell have they been? 😃 with that 20× upvotes I don't remember it coming my way 😃.
On a serious note though, it sounds unfair and thus I have undelegated, I'm sure having my 100 HP back will give me a more curation rewards.
It most likely will after curation changes after the hardfork since you won't be giving a cut to the owner of that scheme, which I'm sure he gets in one way or another.
Bro, not worried about HBD stabiliser atm. Just build your account so you mob can keep supporting authors.
Thoughts and opinions on your stance, I have no idea but happy to follow your lead. You guys have done pretty good and I have no reason to disagree with what you're saying.
Obviously it's a loophole that needs to close.
Myeah it's not so much about building my account, I just know I'm one of the few who gets a ton of autovotes and if/when the content isn't something that takes a lot of effort or my time I want to forfeit part of the autovote rewards to make it more fair to everyone else. This was also one of the ideas behind reward.app where I'd give part of the rewards back to curators instead of keeping them all, but barely anyone uses it and for now @hbdstabilizer does a lot more good with the hbd.
I have no idea what reward app is and I think maybe alot don't know?
Hive is a big world and only getting bigger each day, still not across everything and doubt I ever will be. Rules change, new things emerge and amongst it all trying to dodge the rorts, figure out whose who and what's going on.
I learned a fair bit through lockdown, Hive is more of an ever evolving community which is something I didn't really know for the first few years on it.
There's some decent early posts reblogged by the account explaining the idea behind it. Ofc many can also see it as vote-buying but each post being susceptible to downvotes should diminish that abuse:
https://peakd.com/@reward.app
What's the upvote of it worth? I had no idea that it existed.
Kinda getting tired of being targeted for apparently doing things wrong by individuals who have all the power and the ability to effectively make decisions for the masses against them. If delegation is such a bad thing then why does it even exist on Hive? Or is it only OK when you and you buddies do it? I'm starting to feel that Hive as a platform is effectively a dictatorship in decentralized clothing.
In terms of my own personal content, the quality speaks for itself. However, getting your voice heard on a well established platform is very difficult. Programs like the one run by @hive.curation offer a great support for minnows like me who are trying to establish themselves but also feel that it is right to be able to get some reward for the content we produce, particularly given the effort put in.
In my mind this platform does two things:
Telling everyone they are doing it wrong all the time and slapping downvotes (or threatening to) on them is effectively a bully tactic and is not constructive. You know bullying right? It is where someone with more power picks on individuals with less for what they perceive as their faults. You see, the reason we need to form groups like this is because of groups like yours, whales, coming along casting waves on everyone and happily reaping the benefits at the cost of the weaker players. As with all platforms I'm sad to say hive feels to me like it is not a place for a decentralized ecosystem it is instead it is the rich scratching each others backs then telling everyone else to stop doing it (twofaced and back to the status quo).
I hope you take from this message just how frustrated I am at your behavior and lack of concern for how you hurt decentralization and social platforms in general. I work bloody hard all week then on the weekend spend a few hours writing a well throughout and constructive post (once a week), not asking for much tbh, just support (with a willingness to support others) and not to told what we can and cannot do.
Get the fuck out already then.
With responses like this there is no dialogue. Very sorry for whatever has pushed you to this point in your life, hopefully you’ll reflect on this someday and have a twinge of guilt. Stay safe, don’t let the rage eat you up.
Yeah I have no guilt for abusers trying to gain more for themselves from a shared rewardpool. Can't be arsed replying to everyone of you, if you look at my past posts regarding your cult you'll see I took enough time for it, not to mention the time you're wasting on me having to downvote your scheme on a daily basis. Good riddance.
So my journey began when on HIVE when I first posted in the PH community and was met with support, the result was I continued to post there. Similarly I offered support back to the community whom had encouraged /rewarded my work. But now I'm a cultist is that about right? I've always tried to not be a fanatic about anything, I post regularly about things I find interesting and I hope that others do as well. To my knowledge I was never given a set of rules I had to follow when signing up to Hive, but you and your associates have determined I've broken them anyway and have become judge jury and executioners. Part of me thinks maybe I should just do what you tell me to do and then you'll leave me alone to post my articles in peace. But for some reason I get the feeling that wont ever be the case.
What you are creating here is a wholly unwelcoming and distrustful platform the heart of which is rotten. I really wanted Hive to work out. I've said before that the quality of my content speaks for itself, but here we're not judged on the quality of the content is seem, instead it is who we know or where we happen to post articles.
I don't intend by the response to anger you any further, I just want to express that your reactions have effectively done considerably more damage than good. I am sure that you feel you're doing the right things protecting your place on the hill, but at somepoint you need to realise that bullying people into doing what you want is much less likely to yield the desired results, as the saying goes the carrot works better than the stick.
Anyway, I feel you'll get your way. Another voice shutdown, I've removed my hive.curation delegation and as soon as that is complete I will begin powering down all of my HIVE and selling it off along with HBD. In that time I may continue to post, though this whole situation has made me realise that life is too short to waste time worrying about HIVE.
Why not just worry about if the content meets your standards, I mean in some way or another every curation group including yours is maximizing stake in exchange for some type of rewards/benefits. The technicalities of how is a very thin line.
This is like a bunch of bored control freaks making up rules so they can be enforced.
What is the goal?
Delegation for profit is vote selling.
The pool is every person for themselves, until they start ganging up.
And here we are 5 years later, most of the favored gone, most of those rewards sold at <.2usd, the gangs still boasting how they help the less fortunate, and what do we have to show for it?
A mussed up slate that we can write anything we want on.
That's not all bad.
Yeah, I'm here for the crypto community and the friends I've made.
The politics are a constant source of entertainment.
People in crypto are flocking to where they feel like they are winning, because humans like to feel successful. We seek pleasure and avoid pain.
But a handful of people treat Hive like a castle with a moot and guards..
The results are less users, lower price and content that is subjective.
One can never just make a casual post without fear of being a Milker or whatever.
Well, the nice thing to know is that as long as we don't sit idly by while a certain few accounts cement in their controlling interests because of the falling inflation and math, those that think like that will be diluted out of controlling the coin with time.
Do you think 'the community' is even aware enough to see this take over before it happens?
I want to say 8 years was the tipping point, but I'm not certain.
Discussions of this 'fact in the math' are not making it to trending.
The long term interests of the coin are in having no masters, but you can't really expect somebody to not take candy from babies once they have the taste for it.
It's unnatural.
I agree we should cancel that account with downvotes.
@acidyo I am pretty knew here, but when I try to explain what is Hive part of my explanations says:
"This network self-improves the quality of its content. Just like open-market allows most needed or liked goods get sold for better prices, here most needed and liked post gets most upvotes/rewards. "
This is what I liked about hive - it don't needs regulation it can be self regulated by the principles of open marked and in this way gets improved just like AI improves with more data.
The practice from @hive.curation seem like a destructive for this kind of continuous content improvement. It is getting closer to a Ponzi scheme. So I totally agree with you.
Engage with our NFT gallery
Okay super confused right now, I'm new here and I delegated a tiny amount to them. Is that a bad thing what I did now @acidyo ?
Read the post maybe.
I did.
It's in the post why.
Why did you delegate in the first place? Why them and not other projects? It's a odd move for a newbie when you don't know the ins and outs
I delegated because the reward you for delegations and i'm trying out all possible features I can here.
When you are a small account why delegate ?
Does it matter if the account is small or not? As I said I'm just trying everything out here to familiarize myself with it.
Ofcourse it does, and did you read the blog and all the comments, its just an odd move when you just arrived
Read the blog, Not all the comments.
@acidyo you should try set max payout if you wanting to not take too much reward.. Assuming the extra goes back to the pool.
I can just send half or so to hbdstabilizer like I've been doing, this won't penalize curators. Thought this would be another neverending discussion post but seems the service got the gist and is changing his ways.
Delegating for profit is vote selling.
Okay @acidyo, reading through the post a fair few times, I think I understand what is going on. Was genuinely under the impression it was a community curation similar to OCD for example. Just a curating trail to help give other users of the platform a vote as I've been having to spend a lot more time working and less on my personal content on here (like my writing and streams on here) so I've not been able to manually do it. I wasn't aware anything malicious would be going on and I've never had a post upvoted by them (not that that even matters I suppose, didn't even clock on it was a thing to be honest.) Just wanted to put my hive to good use while I was away. Certainly didn't have any ill intent. Guess there's still more for me to learn about curation trails (this is the first platform I've been on that uses it). Appreciate the heads up.
Hey @acidyo, I would love to hear your opinion about leasing HP and then upvoting yourself. I know this is not the topic of your post, but I think they are somewhat related.
Depends how often one were to upvote himself or accounts that are yours but pretending not to be. In general dlease I believe is unprofitable with a couple upvotes here and there unless you also get a high ROI from front-run maximization.
The user I am talking about posts a post almost every day, and upvotes every one of them with %100 voting power. I believe that is very frequent but I would defer to your opinion.
1-2x per day is fine, the issue with vote-trading is that say instead of posting 10x per day and voting yourself 10x per day, you make deals with 9 other people who have the same stake as you that you'll vote them once per day if they also vote you once per day. This is the issue with blatant vote-trading where you're eventually self-voting 10x per day without directly doing so but not having much in common with the other accounts except for the deal to maximize. It's okay to vote your friends/other people you like and their content often but it shouldn't be a guaranteed vote no matter the content, quality or at a constant rate, and especially not expecting a vote back for it.
Thanks for your insight.
My comment (that I was going to do here) turned into a post...
https://ecency.com/hive-150329/@forykw/brainstorming-alternative-pool-for-delegations
If people would like to read it and let me know more, I would appreciate it.
I am not sure if would stop this kind of vote-selling, but I would be willing to explore the idea and make some efforts towards possibly testing it.
Hey @acidyo, nice to see you here (today my first day at Ecency :) )
Hi @acidyo, just realized I am on the spot. I want to say this can be resolved without Downvoting my delegators' posts. I will keep an eye on this.
How do you plan on resolving it?
simple, empty the whitelist
What does this mean for voting on delegator's posts? That's the main issue with your scheme. The APR will fix itself after the hardfork where your front-running ROI will be rendered useless.
I did not see the problem to vote for my delegators' posts, but downvoting them is not fair to them.
That's probably why you're not getting what's wrong with your scheme. People are supposed to be curated for the content, effort and/or other contributions to the ecosystem. Not just because they give you delegations you can upvote them so they can circumvent having to post 10x per day to self-vote all those posts and not share their upvote mana with other unique users on the platform.
What you and your delegators are doing are not fair to the rest of stakeholders and regular users on the chain according to the blockchain rules and consensus of how curation should work.
that is just your opinion, but downvoting is not necessary to resolve this.
Bagus
lol
Back to Steem, coward thiefy boy. Use your actual account next time.