Flat Earth, Hollow Earth, Minecraft Oh My.

in #philosophy7 years ago


I'm not sure what the fascination and resurrection of the flat earth theory is all about. To me it is amusing and I don't mind talking to "flat earthers". I haven't seen anything from them that convinces me. I still look. Some of the things are often pretty amusing.

I was chatting with some people on steemit.chat today about flat earth. They were wondering why people were even talking about it. I mentioned I debate with flat earthers sometimes. They wondered why I debated. They even expressed there is nothing to debate.

There is ALWAYS something to debate. Asking questions is part of the scientific method. It might even be the most important part. We never stop asking questions. There is no stopping point in true science. There is only what makes the most sense at the moment. Yet we should welcome questions. This implies there is ALWAYS room for debate.

If there is nothing to debate then we are talking dogma, or religion most of the time. That can be worse than a person who is wrong, but still willing to respond to questions.

We as humans can often get very hung up on NOT BEING WRONG. In fact the more intelligent (ego at work) we perceive ourselves the more at risk we seem to be in becoming the person who considers themselves never, or rarely wrong.

This comes into play on both sides of the flat earth debate.

From the flat earther side I'll see them do everything they can to poke a hole into any video or experiment someone does even when it is a simple experiment. They won't bother to try to reproduce the experiment which is the scientific method. They'll simply attack the experiment and talk about how it was fake and rigged without doing the experiment themselves.

This is sad. If the experiment requires resources you do not have, then that is one thing. If they are experiments that can be attempted yourself and you do have the means and you are simply being obstinate or stubborn that is another.

Foe example: This father and son made a space balloon with a camera. How ingenious was that?

Of course I read comments and saw the flat earthers attacking it. Yet why don't they simply do the experiment themselves?

Or how about this one? This is something people could do themselves. This guy wasn't even trying to prove the earth was a globe. He assumed it was and was just trying to find out how to measure it's curvature.

Or if they have the means why don't they try to circumnavigate the globe themselves. They then can surely make certain they are not in some long turn.

I've known a person that circumnavigated the globe via foot, and one via bicycle. Now when they reached large bodies of water they had to take a plane, or boat to continue the journey. Yet we can use Distance = Velocity x Time as a simple equation to determine they could not back track via the plane or boat at that time unless you think we have amazingly fast planes and boats that only kick into warp drive when they are trying to keep people from learning the world is flat. I don't buy into magical thinking. I prefer the math, observation, reason, and if possible experimentation.

I do not believe asking questions is a bad thing. I think it is one of the most important things we can do.

I do think "I'm never/rarely wrong" is a bad thing and is actually coming from a position of ignorance.

We are ALL (I intentionally use an absolute here) wrong about a great number of things. Many of these things we are wrong simply due to lacking all of the information necessary to fully understand what we are perceiving. Yet there are many among us that will do everything they can to make sure they can continue to believe themselves rarely wrong.

Being wrong is not a bad thing. It is an opportunity to grow and learn. If you are rarely wrong in truth then you are a sad person as that means you have very little chance of learning new things and growing. You are stagnant, static, and locked into place. You might as well have stared at Medusa and had your mind turned into stone.

Hollow Earth


Now I admit I also debate with flat earthers and read flat earther posts because I often find them very amusing. This means while I've yet to find one I actually agree with, I do get some enjoyment from reading the posts.

I've decided some day I want to inject the Hollow Earth theory into a debate with a flat earther. I'm curious what they will think of that as Flat Earth + Hollow Earth combined seems like it could be insanely amusing.

I found myself thinking of some questions...

"If I dig continuously in a straight line down, in the earth as a globe/ellipsoid shaped thing the idea is I'd eventually pop through the crust on the other side. The old joke of digging a hole and popping up in China. There were some great looney tunes cartoons that did that. If the world is flat what happens if I keep digging? Will I eventually fall out of the bottom? If so, where will I go?"

Minecraft

Then I started to wonder if perhaps minecraft and its procedurally generated block world which is indeed flat might not have been one factor to the recent rise of flat earth.

Probably not so much.

It is more likely to be that the education system has been focused on making people fall for appeal to authorities, virtue signal, and believe in safe spaces than in critical thinking. In higher education they seem more interested in making people focus on collectivism, socialism, and communism than critical or free thinking.

It is no surprise that "I'm right mentallity" wins out. That tends to be the result of such programs. History backs this. It has in a few times lead to a cultural revolution where those that were "right" made sure they remained right simply by killing off those that disagreed with them. In the process of claiming to be fighting hate.

In some places they even put those people into a cooking pot. (Chinese Cultural Revolution).

So am I surprised at the rise of the flat earth theory? No. Am I surprised people will simply say "you are wrong" and debunk anything they can without actually experimenting? No.

It's called the easy path. Why do the work, if all you have to do is say YOU'RE WRONG and stubbornly defend your mental safe space?

NOTE: In parting. This can happen on the other side as well. This is obvious by "What is there to debate?" type statements and immediately considering the other side as insane or ignorant without even listening. Why? They didn't agree with your mental safe space. This is WHY we debate, it is not a reason to avoid debating.

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Well, that's something new I didn't know about it, thanks for the info. I will check out, looks interesting.

Is hallow earth like the idea of a dyson sphere?
sun in the middle?
Sounds like something straight out of a 50's sci fi movie, mole people under the the crust like the morlocks in time machine.
:D
Isnt the whole flat earth thing based on the idea that the Nazis won ww2 and nasa and everything else is just made up nazi propaganda to keep us in the dark about the truth that the Nazis won? claiming we never went to the moon and stuff. atleast that's what I was told last time I talked to a flat earther.
Maybe this movement of calling everyone Nazi by the hard left is the reason for this new groth in the flat earth stuff. if they are willing to believe more then half of the usa is Nazis and that all white people are racist because of their skin color then tking the next step to maybe flat earth is real isn't to big of a jump for them to make.
:D

Everything you said is some tinfoil hat stuff, for sure. But, there is absolutely no way man has ever been to the moon. It is not possible now and it sure as cow excrement that it wasn't possible in the 1960's.

LMFAO!
Why is it not possible?

We don't have the technology. I think the better question is how is it possible.

Why don't we have the technology?

Do you not understand how powerful your cell phone is? Do you have any clue how much harder it is to go to the bottom of the ocean then space?

and that is not a better question it is you avoiding the facts, look up anything about space flight technology and you will have access to more information then a person could dig through in a life time.

so if you are really asking how its possible, maybe do a simple search online and read some stuff on the technology?

But I would love to hear your reasoning on why we don't have the tech and why its not possible.

If it is so simple, then please enlighten me as to why no human has been there since the early 70's? Why is it that the Russians were years ahead of us and then just decided to not land there because the US beat them to it. Now, that makes zero sense. Just because we have advanced computing power now doesn't prove anything. Are you suggesting that in a few trips, we learned everything we need to know about the moon? Why has no one been back with all of our great technology?

I'll tell you why. The radiation alone will kill anyone who tries. And, imagine that, all the guys who "landed" on the moon are surprisingly still alive and well.

Are you suggesting that in a few trips, we learned everything we need to know about the moon?

nope you are making assumptions.

Why has no one been back with all of our great technology?

IDK and am not the person in control of that sort of stuff. so are you now saying that because we are not doing it in this present time that it never happened in the past?
Are you going to say people never went down the marionion trench now too becuae we have better tech now and people aren't still going to the bottom?

The radiation alone will kill anyone who tries. And, imagine that, all the guys who "landed" on the moon are surprisingly still alive and well.

so we don't have the tech to block radiation waves now too? You realize we have the ability to block radiation right?

Im sory when I say I think your basing your view on reality on a proud lack of information on the subject.

Are you saying all the people that have been to space is part of some conspierency to keep the world thinking its not flat?

you really trying to say Steve-o is part of this cabal trying to fool the world?

I honestly think the moon landing story is as bollocks as the flat earth story.

But Americans love it because it makes them feel like world leaders.

And for some reason I thought you were a skeptic...

There is very good evidence that the Apollo moon landing was faked in a film studio, and it’s probable that nobody has ever landed on the moon, and never will.

In countries that are not under the spell of the US media, this is a fairly common belief. While some of the information saying the moon landings were fake is full of holes, it’s also very likely that the US Government has had a hand in creating some of the dodgy fake moon landing web sites in order to make “conspiracy theorists” (the new communists) look like gullible bozos.

Im skeptical of many things but its hard to be skeptical of the moon landing when my great uncle was one of the people that set foot on the moon. so maybe my grandfather and his brother were in on covering up the lie for their son/nephew. I doubt it though.

I could understand the argument of the moon landing to be fake but using that as the basis on why the earth is flat is where I draw the line.
I would believe the moon landing was fake way before the flat earth story.
We have humans in space right now in the spacestation, saying we cant go to space seems far fetched, landing on the moon hasent been done yet is atleast a little more plausible.
IMO atleast.
:D

Hahaha.... What the Flat Earth movement IS... It is growing and it has a lot of videos on youtube as well as posts here and other places. It is diverse and I'd fail if I tried to sum up what it is.

Hollow Earth.... what you described is indeed one version. There are quite a few different ones. I just think it is amusing to inject it into the flat earth discussion. It makes me chuckle.

yeah I was told that on the other side of earth is the Nazi world where they rule this side of the earth from.
:D
I seen a couple on here in the last couple days. They are atleast entertaining to read.
lol

Flat hollow earth does sound fun, Nazis on the bottom, people living in a lie on the top and mole people living inside the planet.
:D
I would pay 5 sbd to watch that movie.

I always think about flat earth. How's is possible that earth is flat? Today i am really happy to see this post, really I have no words for thanks.

What about hollow earth? As we digging in the earth straight down, water would be there, different minerals would be there. Is it?

Come on, of course the world is flat! Didn't you read Terry Pratchett? The Discworld is carried through space on the back of the giant turtle A'Tuin!
Joking aside, considering the huge number of official lies we're fed, I don't think it's surprising people begin to doubt even the most obvious things...
And since you've spent time talking to flat-earther did you find out why this huge conspiracy? What's the point of hiding the fact that the earth is flat???

I believe the earth is a sphere , but not that many years ago we would have had to defend that theory. Most people were convinced that the earth was indeed flat.. 🐓🐓

Maybe 'they' actually want us to think the earth is flat and are behind this campaign! Actually this 'argument' was settle hundred (or maybe thousands) of years ago. Just because someone doesn't trust science doesn't mean their argument is valid. They happily use all the technology science has given us . I've given up on talking to them. Waste of breath

Great one and very inspirational @dwinblood !

Very nice info very nice blog

Nice to see discussion tags.
:-)
Taking the day off. hgd!
Namaste!

The way I see it wtf is their to gain from saying the world is a globe ..I would belief the hollow earth theory b4 the flat earth ..supposily the hollow out has it own sun atomosphere .seen it on you tube some scientist did his test with whatever experiment he did and says it could be possible that it could form inside over millions of years .only way to find out is fly or sail around the world to see if u hit a dome ..Or go the antatrtica and find the entrance to the hollow earth

I think the earth is flat, as long as you believe in it,.... And from out of space it only looks round shaped, but that is not true ....
Anyway, interesting topic to follow and see other thoughts.

you keep using that word...debate.
I don't think that it means what you think it means.

It might not. Then again, most words these days have a lot of definitions. Tell me what it means to you.

I 'debate' my cat Bubba a lot. He's a Bombay...a breed of cat that is very 'talkative'. We have 'interesting' conversations.
I'd consider that they make more sense than speaking to a flat earther...at least that's been my experience.

The key to being able to avoid the frustration of a flat earther discussion is to look at it as a comedy skit. It works for me. I get a lot of chuckles from it.

yup...like I said..baiting.
I do that...with liberals.
it's fun.

I actually prefer the word argument, but so many people see that word only as a negative thing.

When speaking with flat earthers I'd call it baiting..

Hahahaha.... well there is that.

Another easy experiment to try is using a SLR camera trained to the North Star and set the shutter speed to a couple of hours.

I don't have such a camera. I assume you know of some good videos of people doing that? If so share one. Otherwise, I'll look myself here in a little bit. If you share one though other people reading these comments might benefit.

Well, I don't know of any particular videos. I have seen some pictures of the finished product on the web.

I still don't understand what use the flat earth debate has. Who the hell cares if the earth is flat or round? Why would anyone lie about it? What's the use of "deceiving" everyone into thinking that the earth is a globe? Doesn't sound like there is any advantage in knowing that the earth is flat. A lot of things that rely on the earth being a globe already work...

No clue man. Other than needing to find a conspiracy in everything. :)

Exactly that :)

I personally love that these "theories" have become popular recently, I do not support them in the least, but it is nice that they take strength because you show distrust and raise new questions, I do not think they are very scientific but they put many people to doubting science and not taking it as a religion.

I feel that a pseudo inquisition was forming around science in which you could not even question it, and that is not correct, doubts, questions, and all these things are supposed to be what essentially differentiates science from religion, we really are not 100% sure of anything, so even the most intelligent people can be wrong.

People who say that they should not debate or talk to the flat-earthers, are the same that in the past they said that the science was a heresy.

I have a lot of problems with a lot of the so-called "scientific" community today. For many of the reasons you shared.

There are many people using the labels science, and scientists when they are unworthy of the labels due to failure to follow the scientific method. They become more dogma, an political.

Asking questions is good.

That doesn't mean the question was genius.

Yet we should be able to ask questions, and encouraged to do so.

And perhaps ask: Why are these questions being asked?

I watched the following video the other day...

The first 30 minutes or so are pretty amazing all the things discovered and the reactions they receive. It backs up what you are saying.

By the way, as LeBron would say; the earth is flat like a ball. 😅

great one upvoted <3

philosophy include every human being. philosophy changed every life i see.

the video you have, proving a curve, has a fish eye lens.

hubble could end this debate, just turn around take a picture. never been done.

any satallite could give us a live video feed, isis could do it. but there videos have been proven cgi/vomit comet. all those wires, as if anyone would design anything that way, it looks 'complex' in the way a movie set looks like computer screens to a novice.

Heheh... I've not seen any flat earthers do these experiments themselves either such as the one with the balloon.

suez canal

even under the most conservative estimates, there should be 80 feet of 'curvature' over 100 miles in a straight line, anywhere.

yet the suez canal is completely level over 120 miles stretch, from sea to sea.

this is impossible for globe earth, it must not be level for it to be a globe.

Though I was thinking about 10 minutes ago when I was in the bathroom about something Flat Earth related I might do today. Depends on time.

Interesting post, and I appreciate the openness and encouragement of questions!
I wholeheartedly agree that asking questions and challenging common thought/opinion is the centerpiece of scientific progress, and it's so sad that so few scientists today agree on that fact. They accept the dogma and will do everything they can to silence dissenters.
I am studying collegiate biology and psychology, so I've seen this "don't ask questions" attitude in real life. It's truly sad to see our hailed intellectuals of the day adhere to such aggressive close-mindedness and intolerance of alternative thinking.

Awesome video