Many are socially okay with condemning war but balk at laying blame at the feet of those who sign up to participate in it. Many of us have been programmed to "honor the troops" by a government which continually needs new inductees to brainwash for what I consider a global mafia.
I'm not a pacifist. I understand how many in the military have good intentions and bad people exist in the world so we have to have mechanism of defensive force (non-government solutions do exist, btw). The U.S. military today goes way beyond that, in my opinion. It is the monopoly of force which defines government, props up the world reserve currency, and destroys things in the name of "U.S. Interests." Stepping back to see the big picture, how can we support those who use violence and indoctrination while justifying it with statistically irrelevant fear mongering such as "the war on terror"?
A common response to this line of thinking is "But what about the Nazis and World War II?"
We live in a different world today. War is no longer honored as a virtuous activity as it was leading up to WWI and even into WWII. Violent competition does not increase wellbeing compared to cooperation. We're now globally connected. We are evolving as a species, and it's time our words and actions reflect our values. War, and those who enthusiastically participate in it, should not be honored. Those stuck in that meat grinder machine (or who are considering entering it) should be rehabilitated with love and compassion. Some might even argue they should be shamed.
In sharing my opinion, I don't intend to label, shame, or attack any specific individual based on their group/tribal membership. I view tribalism as our shared enemy. Many wonderful, honorable, moral people work professionally in the armed forces. Their daily actions define their character, but they also can't be completely excused (from my perspective) for supporting and participating in such an organization.
They call it "serving" in the military, but I see that as a story told to recruits as they are indoctrinated via bootcamp brainwashing. Reformatting human minds is part of what they do to turn a human being into property of the United States government.
I'm not okay with this.
I'm also not an isolationist. I don't think non-intervention is automatically the same thing. I don't believe the narrative that "we" (please, let's all stop using that word in this context) are a "global force for good." From my perspective, the reality is closer to this military being involved in other countries for U.S. Interests which include power, money, and influence. If a country is experiencing a bloody civil war or genocide, this government isn't all that motivated to get involved unless there's an upside for themselves. From what I see, it's not about compassion. The recent $100B arms deal with Saudi Arabia — not exactly a free country nor does it respect human rights — is just one of many examples showing the true nature of the military industrial complex.
Often people (rightly) point out how the U.S. government and military is better than many others. They don't purposefully target civilians (for the most part) and at least pay lip service to the democratic process within this constitutional republic. Fair point indeed, but when will we recognize how similar this is to comparing and contrasting various mafia families to evaluate which one runs the most beneficial protection racket?
At what point do we move beyond violence and try more effective tools like non-violent communication? Often, those who think violence is the only answer haven't heard Marshall Rosenberg describe it as a tragic expression of an unmet need. Watch some of his videos on YouTube before you disregard it. His techniques have stopped violent conflicts which have been raging for generations.
For a broader perspective, give War is a Racket a read. Major General Smedley Butler was, during his time, the most highly decorated Marine ever. His perspective is important for us all to understand. Or maybe spend some time with this visualization of the estimated 3,341 people killed in Pakistan via Drone Strikes since 2004, only 2% considered "high-profile" with the rest being civilians, children, and alleged combatants. That's just one country among many. Sure, the total numbers are disputed, but drone attacks are just one angle. There are also economic sanctions, strategic blockades, and projects like the F-35 wasting over $1.5 trillion.
I know this is a complicated, emotional topic and some will say I'm painting with too broad a brush while oversimplifying global and national dynamics. That may be so. I've never personally been in the military. I've had a number of discussions, but I can't possibly know just what it's like. Does that mean I have no basis for arguing we should not honor those who think it's virtuous to be part of an organization which massively wastes resources while killing other human beings?
I don't think so.
I think talking about this openly might be one of the most important things we can do to help change the world for the better. Can you imagine if people around the world started encouraging their loved ones to quit the military and start a business or get a job which directly benefits others and doesn't pay them with money extorted from citizens?
I'm open to constructive criticism and dialogue here. These are my current opinions, and they are flexible if countered with good evidence-based arguments. That said, if your emotional response is too strong to reasonably consider my views, the programming may go deeper than you realize.
All images under CC0 Public Domain via Pixabay
The army is a government program for accommodating psychopaths.
I don't think so.
I'd love to think so, because I abhor both government, and the concept of a military.
But I think there's too much brainwashing at play to just assume that every person who joins up is a psychopath.
Here's the one piece of proof that will change your mind:
The USA military goes to schools, and tells children who are below 21 about how great it is to serve in the military.
I do not see chefs, engineers, scientists, waiters, waste-disposal people, or janitors coming to school to speak in front of a class on why you should consider being a waiter or scientist, or whatever else.
The only group of people that had a special time in front of an unrelated class was the military.
They do this to American children. Military officials go into government run schools and directly brainwash the young children there into joining up, using sly language like "duty" and "honor" and "sacrifice". They trick children into learning to kill, and only then do they become psychopaths.
The children are too young to be evil or psychopathic. They are just children who, if taught proper kindness, love, respect, hard work, civil duty, and how to think deeply, would happily do so. They only turn into monsters when they're taught that murder is justice, and that oppression is righteous.
Mental disorder is build up from the environment. I write about this in my posts extensively. It is not something inherently brought by DNA (only rare cases) bur rather something socially constructed.
If you mean the sorts of mental issues that are very very common in modern society, like depression, anxiety, shyness, faith, obedience, or ignorance, I'm with you completely.
Well ofcource. Even psychopathy stems from basic depression and anxiety. Existential dread and disassociation with one's environment can lead to schizophrenia. I would recommend you read Becker's - The Denial of Death.
Seems that way to me at times.
This is an excellent post... about a topic I believe we should be paying far more attention to... under the greater story arc of "How DO we create a better world for us all to live in?
So going to resteem this for visibility. I agree with @tarazkp, this IS what should be on the Trending page.
In some sense, I may always have been a pacifist of sorts... it feels like an inherent part of my core sense of self that I just can't wrap myself around the need to "problem solve" through violence rather than through dialogue. And that means anything from people who'd rather punch someone in the nose than talk to them... to outright war.
To wrap a little frame of reference around my early leanings... already at age 14 I was already 6'3" and near 200lbs and an athlete, so I wasn't some "skinny little nerd" who got picked on.
I have always thought war to be a stupid waste of life. Even as an idealistic 16-year old I felt that those "stooopid politicians" who wanted wars and sent innocent young men into harm's way should be forced to fight their own battles in hand-to-hand combat in cage matches. YOU wanted this dispute... YOU be front and center, seeing the whites of your adversary's eyes. Of course, it's a naive perspective as we had just as many wars when kings rode into battle at the HEAD of their armies.
Perhaps the most moving and profoundly sad experience I have ever had was visiting the American Cemetery in Normandy, France... and looking out across a field of white crosses so vast the mind boggles; we "honor" their sacrifice and yet, I was never able to detach myself from the thought of what might have happened had none of these individuals agreed to fight, in service of someone else's political ideas and agendas? Who would Hitler have been, had nobody been willing to fight?
Anyway, I have also long been intrigued by NVC and how it might be used to address many of the issues in the world. Of course, many voices rise and say "Oh, that would never work!" going back to the same old pattern of "I'd rather whack someone in the head with a piece of 2x4 than talk to them." When I read the NVC book (2003-ish?) it opened new doors of possibilty.
The challenge/difficulty in implementing what you're suggesting is that those who end up in (or choose) the are also more likely to be those who like structure, rigidity, knownness... and are more likely to accept "just taking orders" as an acceptable thing. The armed forces are hardly likely to be the hotbed of freethinking activists. I don't say that to let anyone "off the hook," just adding it as an observation.
And so, we return to this mysterious part of the human condition, this "need(?)" to unite behind some cause that seemingly requires us to silence, squash or even terminate anyone who does not stand WITH our ideal. It is-- to me-- the greatest mystery of humanity: Not why we want to "have things our way" but why so many seem compelled by the idea that "having things my way" is only legitimate if it simultaneously involves denying others the right to have things THEIR way. People want a bigger sandbox not because they NEED one, but because they can't stand the idea that someone else's is larger. Human greed; human foibles.
"At what point do we move beyond violence?" you ask... and I often ponder that. and I find myself pondering if part of our problem is the exponential way in which our emotional/psychological evolution has moved... and perhaps has gotten ahead the evolution of our biological imperatives ("Threat... pick up club, smash on head"). We're stuggling to adapt to the situations we are creating, faster than our DNA can respond...
Excellent response. Thank you. Check the we are evolving link in the OP for some possible encouragement about where we might be heading.
I think you touched on a lot of the things I mentioned in my post Tribalism: Our Shared Enemy. This tribalistic nature we have causes so many problems. Can our neural plasticity allow us to move beyond our defaults? Can we improve faster than our "natural selection" evolution allows for? I'm hopeful.
According to Steven Pinker's work, we had far more wars, actually. The world is becoming significantly more peaceful.
Awesome post @lukestokes! I really enjoyed that one. We need more people who can see and put things as clearly as you did. Thank you for sharing. And @denmarkguy I'll check out your comment later.
This is what should be on the Trending pages.
My statement is not about disagreement or agreement or the content of the article at all really. It is that we hear talk about quality writing yet rarely does it make the trending page. Trending is the lobby beyond the door, the welcome home place to hang a hat. It should have substance and thought behind it.
Probably my opinion only.
Good post.
I agree with you. DO what I did and resteem it. Maybe we can get it trending.
Are you sure? I may have only resteemed you before. I feel a bit unfaithful, but okay.
@lukestokes I got permission.
Upped AND Resteemed!
LOL. I don't have any interest in being a monopoly. :)
Thank you! :)
Resteemed, as well. This DOES belong on the Trending page. I'd throw some promotional dollars at it, too... but "Promoted" doesn't seem to get the attention it used to...
Thanks!
Thank you. I really appreciate knowing my efforts here are worthwhile from your perspective.
Glad to support a bit.
I felt alright after @por500bolos mentioned me as a possible read to someone in the midst of you @dwinblood @denmarkguy also.
There are some quality authors here creating a tonne of quality content but I am not if it is getting seen. At least in comparison to the slough of other content.
Personally, I keep chipping away day by day doing what I do with a long term view. I may be naive. I visit the trending page when feeling masochistic.
In all honesty I'm lucky if I check the trending page even once a week. It doesn't generally offer me a feed that I find particularly interesting.
War is a mental disorder of the collective human consciousness. As individuals, most recognize the simple evil of the phenomenon, but the thought processes of the human race as a whole interfere with and deactivate a rational treatment of warfare. There are a few among us who see through the popular psychosis, comprehend the evil and deny war; Quakers, pacifists etc. Nonetheless, the vast majority blindly accept and support warfare as a fact of life.
I will lose many people to the following logic, but it is true nevertheless. War is like religion. They are both deep seated human delusions. They both inspire humans to commit untold 100s of millions of horrific acts against other humans. In religion it is done in the name of God, in warfare it is done in the name of being on the right side.
Warfare and religion, unfortunately, are such deep-seated elements of what makes a human that nothing short of complete genetic reconstitution of Homo sapiens will solve these gross iniquities.
So brave and thought provoking. This is a topic I often debate. Although I have compassion for decisions that are made for a variety of reasons ( joining the armed forces ), decisions have consequences and therefore accountability. Thanks so much for this post
Not sure if you're replying to me or the comment above. Either way, thanks for sharing your views!
hahah I actually meant to respond to the post in general, but all in all it is an interesting thread.
Very well said. You might enjoy the Futurism link I had in my original post under the "we're evolving" text. The future version of homo sapiens may look much different.
Rule by force is the problem, who and how are just symptoms.
Hah! Nice meme you got there. :)
It's borrowed, and very true.
This one is mine:
Oh, man. Brutal.
Yeah, them greeks do it up right.
I can't figure out how the make getting a job so bad there that folks still sign to be cops.
Thanks for this post Luke; it's very well though out and clearly narrated. I've always been of the same mind since a child learning about the atrocities of war and genocide; influencing me to like the music I do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w211KOQ5BMI
There is so much good music that touches on the atrocities of the industrial military complex; and it makes me sad to see the individuals in my life that have been thrown into it.
Thanks Hutch. Glad to see you on Steemit. :)
I often wished people would more carefully concider what it means to join the army (any army). Because they dont just risk their health and life, they also become a tool for a group of individuals with questionable intentions.
But those thoughts are not taken into consideration by many who volunteer, instead they hope for adventure, seeing the world, making new friends and - up to a point, a secured income.
Btw., I'm not just making this up - I worked in the army for 34 years.
Well said.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. You have more of it than I, after 34 years. It does seem to be the same to me, but this story these recruits are told seems too closely connected to previous centuries which glorified war as "honorable." I'm hopeful we can move past this destructive mindset and focus on more productive activities.
I dont really know how it is in the US, I worked in the british army as a civilian. I spoke to many soldiers about this over the years. Things like honor and such was not on top of the list for most. For the non-commissioned soldiers it was often the secure career perspective, plus all the army provides, like accomodation ect. And peace time posting to other countries, like Germany, Hongkong, Cyprus ect. It has all changed a lot in recent years.
A different motivation can be found among officers, there its often the family tradition.
I cannot remeber that someone said he only joined because he wants to serve the country and the queen, or to become a hero. It is perhaps also a motive, but more in the background.
I think that's a sign of how we've changed as a species. It used to be about duty and honor. I think enough people see through that BS and the tribalistic problems an honor culture brings to everyone involved. If it's now just about the perks of the job, maybe then we can frame the discussion more rationally in terms of "Yeah, you get a lot of out of it, but what do you give? What does your life represent if you're handed a gun and told to go kill people you don't know?"
Thanks for brining another perspective from the other side of the world.
you're welcome, sir
I can understand your problem with the United States Government. The United States, however, is an extension of its people and are ultimately in power because of its citizens. My question for you: Did you vote? Not just for your president, but your Governor, your Congressman, State Senator, or any of the other elected positions? Have you done anything to educate the youth of the Importance of this? The truth is the new generations do not care enough about politics to be accurately represented by our elected government officials.
Besides, blaming members of the military for supporting the decisions our elder generations makes no sense for many reasons. For starters, the United States Armed Forces do an enormous amount humanitarian relief all around the planet when people were in life or death situations. The military has been there to aid millions, and the service members are the ones who worked through the night to aid in the relief.
Most men and women in the military start at a young age enlisting at 18-years old and sometimes before they even graduate high school with parental permission. Some barely understand how the world works, and are the product of American Culture which has been more concerned about which Kardashian had the most recent cosmetic surgery than whether their country is doing the right thing. Public education in America is behind many countries today in education, and not all of them are completely aware of what they are signing up to do. Education, being the reason so many join the military because college is too expensive for many Americans today. So at 18, they're sent to another country to fix a situation they barely understand.
I am not claiming the U.S. has made no mistakes and clearly there has been. An article from The Atlantic title, [Is a Better World Possible Without U.S. Military Force](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/504512/)," the author, Shadi Hamid, talks about the civil war that broke out after the Iraq invasion, and how it broke it in Syria without the U.S. intervention. The article explains how although the United States has not been the "force for good" Americans would think it's been, the United States is one of the few forces that stands against "mass slaughter and genocide." For instance, in Rwanda when the international community chose not to interfere, more than 800,000 civilians were murdered. We did not intervene and so many people lost their lives because everyone saw it as not their problem.
Our problem is our culture and our ignorance. We the people need to stop burning down our local businesses because we're mad about how we're treated, and become the change ourselves. We need to change the stereotype of politicians by becoming better politicians, change our school systems by becoming better teachers, change the greedy business stereotype by starting companies that improve lives instead of polluting rivers, and we can change it because the 1% are nothing without us. The world can change but bashing on soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines is not solving anything.
I cannot help but be biased in my opinions, and I hope I remained emotionally stable. But I served in the United States Navy for the standard four-year commitment, but I know the impact I've made through my service. The people you're talking about are more than service members; there our brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers, and you're talking about the people who are willing to risk their lives to save yours and your family's.
I wish I could upvote this 1000% Luke!! #VeteransforPeace
Thanks Randy. :)
First. I will be resteeming this. Good post.
Second I know there are people who signed up in their youth believing one set of information, as that is generally when we sign up for such things. They are often swayed by emotionally convincing events that catalyze the signing up.
Then there are some cases like Vietnam where our government was drafting people and forcing them to fight against their will.
The system they enter into is very GEARED towards following orders. Questioning those orders tends to make them not survive very long in the system. So if they do question them they generally have to put a lot of thought into it and determine how to frame their question in such a way as not to be charged with insubordination.
I am not saying this is right. I do not think it is. I see why you would want your military to follow orders without question and quickly. If they are being lead by a gifted strategist or tactician then quick response is often critical for such plans to succeed. This is actually the ONLY justification I can see for it. It unfortunately can be used suppress free thought, and to justify incarcerating people for insubordination simply if they question an order.
This also opens the door to corruption, and criminal possibilities wide open. The people that are in it for a long time will soon become conditioned to doing what they are told without question when it comes to military actions. This can create an army of psychopaths, or at the very least sociopaths. They can learn not to question a superior regardless of how unethical or morally questionable the action may be.
Now I do want to qualify this is not what happens to everyone. I am not trying to pass my generalization off as an accurate representation of all military people. They are all still individuals. This means they are all still different, and some of them may not adjust to this lifestyle well, and for them surviving through the experience is likely a pretty dangerous juggling act.
Thanks for sharing. Much appreciated.
Sure, if we were still in the 19th or 20th century. But what if we can actually move beyond war? Many will dismiss this out of hand and say, "Humans will always make war" but I'm not convinced. I'm not sure if you'd agree with that argument, but to me, the invention of the novel, the Internet, and the like has connected us emotionally as a species to have compassion and empathy, and we're changing for the better because of it.
Which, right away, should bring the entire thing under criticism. These are the same tactics cults use to recruit people. Let's move beyond this irrational thinking.
Thanks, as always, for your detailed response.
I don't disagree with you by the way. I agree with you. I was more playing Devil's Advocate as I was predicting some arguments people might come up with.
The sad thing about WAR is it usually isn't really the PEOPLE wanting to fight and kill each other. It is the GOVERNMENTS which are controlled by a few people in each one, and are dragging the rest of the population into the wars.
They are unnecessary and have been for quite some time.
The propaganda engines are used to incite the people and garner support for such actions. In the U.S. that is our Mainstream Media.
Exactly. This, and learning about the concept of democide, is why I'm aligned with anarchist "no rulers" thinking.
I am aligned that way myself. I do not think the world is ready for us to flip a switch and become "anarchist" in the classical sense overnight. I believe we need to fix some things (Especially education) before it would really work. I believe people like you and I who do not believe others should carry the burden of responsibility for us could do okay. Yet, this does not describe most of society at the moment. I would like to see critical thinking taught continuously beginning at an early age just like math, reading, history, science, etc.
If most of the population was skilled at critical thinking I believe we together could overcome most problems, would be less susceptible to emotional manipulation by common fallacies such as appeal to authority, appeal to tradition, red herrings, false dichotomies, etc. I believe then we would be in a position to actually make anarchism work.
It is definitely a challenging task, and those in power are very much against such a movement.
If you're interested in education, I highly recommend Free to Learn by Peter Gray. The solution to education problems may be to remove educational systems all together and let kids be free to learn through play. That, of course, would require a different economic model as we couldn't have both mom and dad working full time jobs if kids were home all day instead of being sent off to the government re-education prison camps we call schools. This may require a UBI of some kind to provide for financial needs to make this possible. Or more people should take jobs/create businesses which allow them to homeschool/unschool like we're doing. :)
I've also looked into how Finland does it and right now they seem to be giving some of the best educations in the world.
In my opinion war is always about earning money, and my military is a business machine. Politics is a theater, which plans some business ahead and plays a play for civilians to do as they like. They force us to believe that we as a nation should hate or fear some other people or nations and make up reasons for this to go to war or implement sanctions. All for profit and nothing else. With new technology it is getting harder to fool people and implement economic sanctions.
Well said. You've probably seen the documentary "All Wars are Bankers Wars" huh?
Thank you, no I have not, but I will watch it.
meep
Another great post Luke! I'm drawn to your work. "Reformatting" ones mind... I love that.... not just boot camp or the military in general- just think about the idiot boxes in everyone's homes. Usually multiples throughout. I did away with my cable a few years back and HEY! WhAdAyA' Know! I don't miss it at all. Beyond that, try not paying your taxes.
Thank you. :)
Yeah, once the 1984-style Big Brother mainstream news and media cycle stops pouring into the home, it's like the brain goes through a couple year detox cycle and then starts functioning again. It's kind of amazing.
Not only that but changing how we look at and perceive issues among ones diet can do wonders. Hell, just stepping outside barefoot in the yard....listening, soaking in some rays will change one's mind set for the better. Diet is HUGE!
Awesome article and full of questions that need to be seriously asked. I hope that someday we can figure out how to exist together but until that day I will keep preparing and planning. DR
Thank you so much.
I wouldn't be surprised if your country had a Draft again. Its probably a good thing your country persuades the poor and stupid to take up arms... because if they didn't and those numbers drastically declined because no one wanted to die for the "Man" anymore you would probably be one of the first ones they threw in front of a bullet and told you it was illegal and traitorous to not die for the mother land. Young strappy lads are the first to go. Hopefully they can make robot soldiers before that has to happen again... But if the Western world really went down the sink I wouldn't put it past them.
Ugh. You may be right. I think automated, autonomous warfare is not too far off. I hope the ethical hackers of the world will put in some backdoors to ensure those drones don't find their targets but instead take out the sociopathic leaders trying to kill people for power instead.
Fun times for Humanity ahead!
The politicians make war happen. Why do they start wars. Answer: Too many of them are corrupt and possibly under the influence of satanic forces. Another reason they start wars is because they do not know how to prosper the economy. Current saying among sane people is that the politicians with regard to their economic ignorance: "When all else fails start a war." 'All else' means they don't know how to jump start the economy. But when someone comes along like President Trump they just can't stand it knowing that he not only knows how to get the economy going again but will actually do it. That is just too much for these crazy liberals, progressives, socialists and communists....they just can't stand it....gets their blood boiling. They are jealous of his business talents and his extraordinary abilities so they have to shoot him down with their polished BS. Americans need to wake up and see reality and get out of their comfortable cocoon. If they brought back the draft Americans would be getting involved and shouting from the treetops about their Johnny being in a combat zone. That would put a real damper on foreign military escapades and adventures and would reign in those who are always advocating war. So why aren't they getting involved now or won't until their precious Johnny or Mary is drafted. Coming out of the Constitutional Covention Ben Franklin said to a woman who asked about the political situation: "You have a Republic if you can keep it."
So the question is what are Americans doing to "keep it." My perception is not much and some foolishly believe that war generates prosperity and use WWII as a example without understanding that we were selling unbelievable amounts of goods to Europe for Gold (which is real money). My favorite saying with regard to current American culture and mentally is: "Don't confuse me with facts because my mind is made up." By Jimminy Crickets the media will never do that. Education is supposed to teach one to seek the truth. With regards to that what happened to the current generations alive today? The answer is obvious. They can't think for themselves and want the media to do it for them. It long overdue for Americans to wake up before it is too late and they need to face reality.
Thankfully, I think many people are waking up, slowly but surely. I'd also counter and say a new political leader like Trump is not the answer. IMO, the answer is decentralized voluntaryism with no rulers. Individuals working to improve their own lives while taking care of those who can't take care of themselves and interacting in mutually beneficial trade with others. Politicians don't improve economies. Innovative business activity does. Government regulations often stifle this innovation due to protectionism, regulatory capture, revolving door politics, and unnatural monopoly creation by lobbyists.
Take it easy on the communists, not all of us fit the label you are trying to stick on us.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-there-is-no-communism-in-russia
Rule by force is the problem, who and how are just symptoms.
If I am not mistaken the communists in Russia's past have killed some 60 million people and the communists in China under Mao have killed some 65 million Chinese. They not only steal your freedom and happiness but they kill you also. One wonders why anyone would like to be a communists since they don't like themselves.
Yes, you are mistaken.
The Bohlsheviks used the rhetoric of the communists to gain power, then they eliminated any competition to their staying in power.
The western media picked up their claim of being communist in order to poison the well.
Here is a report from Russia during the period from a lady who would know her definitions much better than anyone educated after the Nazi's won wwii:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-there-is-no-communism-in-russia
I've had a lot of fun (and learned a lot) from the ancom vs. ancap debates here on Steemit and elsewhere. It's interesting how much words trip us up when often we all want the same things: freedom, autonomy, peace, resources to live and thrive, and fulfillment in life. If we can get the first part right ("no rulers"), then the details of how we get the rest will hopefully be pretty easy, especially if we give each other the freedom and space to take different approaches based on the preferences of the people we choose to associate with. For me, non-violent, voluntary interactions are the key.
Yep, once rule by force is off the table we can get on to how we want to do things collectively.
Do we want to gouge our neighbors because they can't mow their own lawns, or plumb a house, or do we want to help our neighbors because it is the right thing to do.
Do we want to continue to concentrate wealth in the hands of those few that do the least work, or do we want to spread the wealth more equitably among those that do do the work?
Do we put personal wealth ahead of everything else, or do we make wealth no longer a thing?
I'm hoping that we just keep working, but stop paying.
This seems the shortest route to the stars to me.
I agree with you about most of what you say, I would also like to add something about police repression, for example right now the press has it's all critical eye on police repression in Venezuela as well it should, but police repression is happening all over the world, Philippines, France, USA, South Korea, Bahrain, Brazil, in fact in every country in the the world, in some parts like North Korea they don't even need this repression because people there are already cowed, they don't even have the attitude to protest, so we see repression exists in all countries regardless of political ideology and what I see that saddens me, is that at least in a war you are fighting against someone who you can perceive as an enemy, someone from a foreign country even if to get to that point, to perceive them as enemies they lie to you, but with police repression these police are part of the people they might even be your family or good friends, and yet they will beat you up and in extreme cases kill you because it is their duty to the government, while in fact they should only answer to the people, I really hate this.
Don't even get my started on the police, but yes, I completely agree with you. It's really frustrating. The link in my article about non-government solutions for defensive force goes to Detroit Threat Management. If you haven't looked into them yet, check it out. Pretty encouraging stuff.
Sir, with all due respect....
This is well written and I understand your position. However, I do have 2 things to say for consideration. First, you state how new recruits are subject to brainwashing etc, and you are correct. They do not know what they are getting into! Have you considered that? It is honorable and takes a considerable amount of courage to put your life on the line for your country. Secondly and more important, your frustration sir in my opinion, should be with those who control the system. It is not the individual soldier who has turned the US Military into a global police force or the largest drug dealer or the largest terrorist organization in the world. This all comes from the top. From those who control everything. Oh, and speaking of brainwashing. Perhaps you should look into all the current ways you and the rest of humanity are being brain washed. If you take a look, you will find many things you can do to protect yourself. Our soldiers sir, have little to no choice! 11 Bravo all the way!
Thank you for commenting, as I really do appreciate opinions different from my own.
I disagree. I think this is a story told to recruits to justify the actions which they are told to do. I could instead write your comment this way:
So how that no longer works? The point has to do with the moral or immoral actions of those you are fighting for. In my experience, the United States is (in many ways) indistinguishable from a mafia family in terms of how it deals with other nations using its military. If you're not understanding my perspective here, please read War is a Racket which I linked to in my original post.
As for just being frustrated with those in control, I recognize that a single crazed sociopathic dictator alone is no threat to anyone. It's only when he gets a million trigger fingers to follow him and unquestionably follow his orders that he gets any power at all. Some responsibility, IMO, has to be laid at the feet of those who agree to follow orders, even if that means destroying life and property of other people.
Yes, that's kind of the point I'm making here. They are being tricked and any time there is trickery involved, that's fraudulent, i.e. immoral.
You say they have no choice, but that's part of what I'm talking about. I'm not really a fan of choice which is why I advocate for rehabilitation and compassion. They have choice enough to quit, don't enlist, or don't pretend their actions are completely honorable as far as choice itself exists at all.
I think we are all being influenced by the media inputs we take in, but I don't think that's the same thing as systematic brainwashing as seen in bootcamp procedures. The combination of sleep deprivation, exhaustion, blind obedience to authority, etc is on a totally different level, IMO.
I'm not trying to downplay the important points you've made and again, I really do appreciate you raising them, but I still don't think it's a compelling argument for me to think honoring the troops will in any way fix this issue. If instead we raise awareness about what's really going on, maybe more will decide not to sign up and those in power will find there's on one willing to carry out their sociopathic orders anymore.
Great post, I approach this topic on other media and rarely get a response.
Times are changing, but most would never put down there so called protectors. But the machine rages on, out of control, to the point of world dominance ! I'm sure only a chosen few troops can even bullshit themselves that their doing hero's work, making the world a better or safer place bla bla bla mental illness is rampant in the military among the many that kill without reason, fighting people that have every reason to kill them.
I don't know. I think many really do believe this. They also have, from their perspective, evidence they can point to of humanitarian aid delivered by the military.
That said, I agree with you, there is a lot of mental illness and PTSD going on. Once the "war is honorable!" narrative collapsed, cognitive dissonance has been kicking it hard.
Excellent post...I don't agree with everything, but for the most part it does make sense. Very well written.
I agree it should be on trending.
Resteemed.
Thank you so much! That's quite a compliment to share ideas you think are well expressed, even if you don't fully agree with them. :)
Master Luke,
To say I agree is an oversimplification. I frequently struggle with my reaction to the notion of support being an extension of patriotism. I love my country, but I find many evil points of corruption therein. The barrel has many bad apples.
Thank you. Hopefully through more regular, health dialogue we can continue to figure out ourselves and what we'd like the future to look like.
Thoughtfully written post. I agree. My perspective is anti war. However my youngest son is about to enter service into the US. Marines. It is a knife edge to walk, supporting him and his choice of career and protecting my values. How that will happen constructively, remains to be seen.
That's definitely a tough road to walk. Ultimately, he's got to live his own life, and you've got the role to love him in whatever way is best for you both. You may be one of the most important grounding influences in his life as he goes through the indoctrination process. Hopefully he can remain true to a solid moral framework and be a positive influence on those around him. Good luck.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. That helps. I'm thinking about letters I may be writing to him soon.
I see your point but in many fields of work you ultimately end up fucking people up. Work for an IT company and end up collecting data for the gov't. Work as a chemist and your research gets used to destroy the environment. I've "served" in the army for years but at the end of the day, it's a job. Me and everyone else there were paid, we weren't volunteers. There are times, as with any job, where you individually decide if what you're being asked to do is right or wrong. It's up to you individually whether you carry out said act or don't. I've been and decided. The thing is, and here's the tricky part, once you make that decision you have to live with it. You accept your punishment/reward for your actions. "Brainwashing" is just a scapegoat people refer to in order to absolve themselves of responsibility. You think shit is immoral; you don't do it. Yeah there's a good chance you're getting in shit, may even get killed for it, but it's a personal choice in the end.
Thank you for your perspective. I always appreciate hearing from those who've been there. I think you make a good argument, and I agree every action has a reaction (and not all of them are good), but calling military service "just a job" is difficult for me (an outsider) to understand when the stated purpose of that job seems to involve (from my perspective) violence, death, and machines of destruction. People in IT and chemistry don't have the same stated goals or use tools specifically designed and used to end life (though there may be secondary, often unforeseen consequences in those lines of work as well).
Couldn't saying "It's just a job" also be a scapegoat?
Everyone always forgets that the majority of those in the military have nothing to do with directly causing the death of anyone. They're support personnel, clerks, cooks, analysts, etc. A veterinarian working at the animal shelter ends up killing a lot of innocent animals whose only crime was being unwanted. We call that guy's job "just a job". It's the same concept.
Yeah saying "it's just a job" can be used as a scapegoat. Everything can be used as a scapegoat by those who want to avoid taking personal responsibility for their actions. The woman who calls the cops on a teenage kid stealing bubble gum and ruins his life is just doing her job. But when she picks up the phone she makes that decision; ruin a life or not. Everyone is equally as responsible for their actions as everyone else. Ignorance is no excuse, even if your chosen profession doesn't directly involve holding a firearm. That's my take on it.
Well said. I also think there is a moral difference between someone with a firearm who plans to use it on another individual and someone making a phone call. That said, I agree, those who support police who also often use violent force instead of more practical/successful solutions like non-violent communication should be held somewhat accountable, just as those support personnel are responsible for the actions they support within the war machine.
It's all about being personally responsible for your own choices and not being wilfully ignorant.
FINALLY SOMEONE HAD BALLS TO SAY IT! I love you brother Luke! I have a message to the whole "patriotism militarist BS propaganda": Fuck all the troops of the world. You do not fight for your country, your country is run by ruthless mafia that does not give a FUCK about your freedoms- it's an invasive species! You've been brainwashed and took a choice to perpetuate misery that your corrupted government inflicts on the world in order to CREATE, MAINTAIN and AMPLIFY never ending War (=business). Fuck Military. And yes I have a first hand army experience of many years (stupid I was...) so I fucking know what the fuck I am talking about. I'm not a cowardly cunt. I'm brave enough to say FUCK THE ARMY. You have a choice so stop pretending like it's all good! I do not celebrate our veterans or any day connected to any war, cause they did not fight for freedom- they fought for money and for some stupid political or monarchy puppet (at least after Vietnam, and even that was a major scam...) Sorry for my lyrics, just got lil bit excited, which means that this was a frikin great article @lukestokes !
Glad this one got you fired up. I always appreciate hearing opinions on this from people who have actually lived in the machine.
Love it! Make the troops get on planes last too...
Thank you! Not sure if this is actually Jeff or your social media team, but either way, I appreciate the comment.
It is definitely not their fault for wanting to serve and protect their people and country. I believe no matter what for that reason we should honor them. Without them there would be no us. Regardless of what our government uses them to do they are still doing work that needs to be done in some cases. Work that 99% does not want to do. They are born into this system just like any one of us. Like you say the majority of our troops are there for the right reasons. Without the wars of the past we would not be where we are today as a country. It does not make it right. Our country has a rich history that has some darkness but light has come out of it. I believe America and humanity is moving in a better direction and blockchains will facilitate this brighter future some how. Companies like Telsa and Space X make me very excited for the future of our country and the entire world. It is important we protect our way of life here and have people willing to defend it for the betterment of humanity.
Yes! I'm also a huge fan of things people like Elon Musk are doing.
If you'll permit me, I do disagree on a couple points though.
This is similar to the "But what about WWII?" argument in my OP. How do we separate out how much of this thinking is factually true based on evidence and how much of it has been repeatedly pushed into our psyche with every sporting event and parade where we are indoctrinated with the "honor the troops" mantra?
They want to serve and protect, but if that's not actually what they end up doing based on the results, at what point to we stop and say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? Ultimately, if no one signed up to the military, then the military couldn't do the things it does around the world. Maybe some will argue that what the U.S. military does actually increases wellbeing on the net for everyone... interestingly, no one has yet made that argument in the comments here so far.
Thanks for chiming in, @thejohalfiles. I know you've been a big supporter of my blog, and I like hearing perspectives from you that differ from my own. That's how we learn.
Controversial but important point.
Upvoted and followed.
Thank you!
Number Wang! I love it. :)
Fantastic post mate! Thank you
Thanks for saying so! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Congratulations @lukestokes!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following category:
Only 4th, eh? I'm quite excited about the discussion going on here. :)
Yep ... I see the discussion is really engaged ...
Give peace a chance
Every nation in history has needed a defence force otherwise, someone else will come along and take your resources. That is just how messed up people are. I believe that we should respect the sacrifice that soldiers and armed forces make.
We must also remember times in history when wars of conquest were fought literally for rape and pillage. That aspect of humanity has not disappeared completely as the UN has proven with peacekeeping forces. So yeah, accountability needs to be a key issue, but respect where respect is due..
He linked to non-government methods for achieving this.
But hasn't history changed? In most the world between most super powers, valuable resources today are in intelligence capital, not raw "things," right? We're mostly pretty far removed from rape and pillage. For the countries still dealing with that and other tribal, generational issues, Marshall Rosenberg's approach has been successful. You might be surprised what other options exists besides war.
I agree. Try anything possible instead of war, but neglecting defence is irresponsible as new needs and resource shortages occur yearly. Unfortunately, in the pursuit of 'national interest,' there will always be conflict between countries.
Idealistically, I believe that as a species we need to find a way off this damn rock and colonise space. For that to happen, cooperation is needed, but 'idealism' ignores fact and human nature.
But we as a species are more prosperous than ever. Books like the Better Angels of Our Nature or this short YouTube clip visualizing 200 countries in 200 years convince me we are no longer in a situation of resource scarcity. We have enough to provide for everyone, if we had the will to do so. "Human nature" is something which changes all the time, and I think it's changing now more rapidly than ever, mainly because of technological advances and the Internet. Our technology is what makes us human (starting with cooking).
Right, I live in South-Africa and I am not seeing 'enough for everyone'. Theoretically, there is enough but PRACTICALLY it is not showing or even realistic. Feeding programs for poorer African countries are terrible as the food does not even come close to facilitating development in youths or even providing daily essentials like protein. Some say we do not need protein, our brains do especially during development.
Water is becoming a scarcity in many parts of the world and here in SA we are just recovering from one of the worst droughts in ages. For now, trade and cooperation works, but even supposed international aid comes with strings attached.
A country that cannot and will not defend itself WILL be plundered by more desperate nations. Desperation and need are some of the driving forces of human violence.
I agree tech and the internet help but even then, it only introduces new problems and instances of greed and selfishness.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with these hardships. I'm thankful for the luck of my birth to a prosperous nation and family, but I recognize I just as easily could have been born anywhere else. I try to remind myself that means I have some responsibility to take care of those who weren't so fortunate. Concerns over water could become a very serious problem, but I'm hopeful energy breakthroughs will make desalination much cheaper. As I continue to position myself in a good financial place, I hope to someday influence areas in the world who need it most.
That is the beauty of mankind. There is always hope and there are those who want to effect change. I also believe that adversity is what drives humanity to advancement. As energy and water become scarcer, people will find a way of adapting. Unfortunately, no advancement is made without sacrifice..
It is not your sentiment I disagree with, just the idealism because idealism ignores the harsh reality of who we are as a species.
To clarify, you mean you want us to not honor the military complex. Not to dishonor the dead and those who have been injured in combat?
If they are dead, will they care what we think about them?
I see no reason to honor people who may have spent their life or limb while working for an organization which destroys. We don't honor the mafia member who died or was injured. If global armies and the governments who run them are just more sophisticated mafias, why should we honor those involved?
Wow.
It's a difficult pill to swallow, I know. It took me quite some time to reverse the indoctrination I had for most of my life. Objectively, governments and their militaries are not much different than mafias. Give War is a Racket a read and let me know what you think.
Considering I had family in the mafia and the military I don't agree with the analogy. It's an oversimplification. I presume you're going to say they muscle over weaker factions for profit?
I disprove of offensive wars and unprovoked invasions. Having a national defense was one of the cornerstones of America.
While we have had progress with the EU to try and stabilize the region we are always one generation from a war. Japan was an ally for instance in WWI and then became the reason we joined WWII. Power shifts and politics change. I don't like over militarization. But saying that soldiers are not worth mourning is kind of shocking.
I respect your opinion. But I think you're thinking too highly of your reversal of indoctrination.
This is going to be a healthy discussion I feel.
This does seem to be the driving force of most military involvement, at least as far as the U.S. Military is concerned. It's not always this obvious though, might take some digging into the Petrol Dollar and back to the Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 (and Nixon Shock of 1971) where the U.S. (and global central bankers) basically screwed the world and had the strongest military (by far) so no one could do anything about it.
Can you clarify this point?
(via wikipedia)
I'm not a constitutionalist (I think it's just a piece of Statist paper), but even back then they realized how bad standing armies can be.
The concept of being one generation from war, to me, says more about how much our nature has changed since then. Pinker's book, The Better Angles of Our Nature had a big impact on me (among others). I don't fully agree with his conclusions about the need for a strong Leviathan (his comparisons to "anarchist" societies are anything but "no rulers" societies). I do think, however, he begins to touch on the changes things like the introduction of the novel had on our species. We're more connected than ever and due to nuclear weapons, for the first time the sociopathic rulers who send others to war might actually be killed themselves as well which has put a pause on the whole thing.
Yes, it is shocking. It's also shocking to say things like "god isn't real, and we should move on towards building a world we want to live in using reason, logic, and evidence instead of dogma and superstition." Not everyone agrees with this or is ready to agree with it. It took me quite some time to lose my eternity.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I certainly appreciate those who disagree with me but still respect my views or at least the way in which I try to share them respectfully.
I am unsure how to quote like you did.
But on your point of clarifying.
James Madison one of the 52 men who framed the constitution.
Wrote in the Federalist papers that "Security against foreign danger is one of the primitive objects of civil society. It is an avowed and essential object of the American Union."
While it is only the words of one of the creators. It is surprising because Hamilton and Madison had the same points being argued 300 years ago that you and I are having. Military can be corrupted but they are human beings and a necessary strength. In thirty years Russia or another threat we don't even know about could encroach. We do not know what we don't know.
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._41
This looks interesting. I'll read this tomorrow and probably comeback to comment.
Excellent! I look forward to reading your thoughts.
I like the debate and love how differing opinions seem to be well tolerated where on other sites all there is, is name calling if you believe something different.
But I definitely have a different opinion as you do Luke. I am not for unjustified wars but you get rid of your military and you would quickly find out just how much other factions who do not believe as you, take away your rights to have any freedom, beliefs, or property.
Until there are no other armies or factions willing to do my country, its citizens, or its allies harm, we need a military.
There are plenty of areas of the world that do not have that luxury and others that use their military for wrongful purposes. If the military is doing wrongful things and you live in a democracy where you believe this is happening and did not help change the situation, then you as a voting citizen are just as culpable as any soldier because you support the situation or did not succeed in changing the system.
And if you say "i'm not guilty" but still enjoy the benefits of having that citizenship then you are just as guilty as the soldier if your country's military is misbehaving. The only option at that point would be to move to another country if that were the case. One that better fit your beliefs if you were unable to accomplish change in the one you live in.
So yeah I think I have a different opinion but I love the dialog and the ability to have a debate on the issue where normally people just get mad at each other.
Thank you so much for adding your perspective. I too greatly appreciate having a place to share controversial views and talk about them openly and respectfully. In a way, it's a support for my views. No government or army gave us this. It's the result of amazing blockchain technology and innovation.
How would they do this? Would they directly storm my house? Could I not defend myself or hire someone like Detroit Threat Management (which I linked to in the original post) to defend me and my family? Nation states are no longer financially incentivized to physically invade other countries for their physical resources because the most valuable resources are increasingly about the intellectual and technical skills of the service providers (i.e. the people). If another country invades and takes over silicon valley, as an example, they won't be able to extract the value there. They are much better off doing business with them and profiting from the result.
How do you know that is the single only option? How do you know you're not responding out of an indoctrinated view from your birth until now? Have you explored NVC or watched any of Marshal Rosenberg's videos I linked to? If there were other more effective options for ending violence than military force (which often initiates violence even though it is supposed to be "defensive"), would you be interested in learning more?
I don't vote anymore because I know it does no good. I don't live in a democracy, it's a constitutional republic and only those in representative power make decisions. IMO, voting has become a ritual to placate the masses. I've talked about that more in my post Should Anarchists Vote? and in The Loop: Why Voting and Revolutions Don't Work.
That's a strong stance to take, but I have considered it. I don't think the person who pulls the trigger should be considered in the same category as the person who, under threat of force, is extorted from to pay for the bullet, the gun, and the training of the solider. One voluntary signed up to murder someone else. The other has little choice as there is currently no anarchist utopia to live in where extorted taxes aren't used to fund militaries. That said, I have been looking and seriously do consider how bad things will have to get before I make a conscious choice to take my family, move somewhere else, and renounce citizenship. I hope it never comes to that, but it is something I have to consider in order to be philosophically true to the moral stances I'm taking.
Thanks again for bringing your views. There's no way any of us can learn if we stay within our comfortable echo chambers and only dialogue with those who already agree with us.
Love the debate actually, I don't care to take as much time as would be required right now to discuss each of your points but would love to debate this in some other venue at a later time. Just too much typing. It's like trying to debate using text message but not quite as bad :)
But yes I believe that a person who lives in the society and enjoys the benefits of that society are just as culpable for the actions of their country as the soldier. You support the system you live in whether voluntarily or involuntarily. And in the USA no one is forced to stay in that system so it is voluntary.
And yes, without a military you could have people take over your house by force. And depending on your bank account you could defend it depending on how large a force is trying to take it. I doubt everyone in Crimea wanted to be annexed. But the group with the strongest military didn't let everyone pick.
And I believe the technology infrastructure around the world is pretty fragile actually. If one strong country decided to take out large swaths territory against a weak nation or area then it would not be hard to strip the technology away. Hell just taking out the electric power grids would do most of it. Hard to use a blockchain without electricity. And without an allied army to disrupt that takeover nothing would stop it from occurring.
And if you think a society backed government and an army to back the government didn't allow for the technology advance due to the security it offered then we will have to just disagree. An economy which supported all these inventions and technological leaps were only possible because of the security the country provided to the businesses and the citizens.
I just don't have enough faith in humanity to play nice with each other so until then I'll choose to have an army and blame everyone in that society if it does not act right (including myself). Or at least use my vote to try and change it. And if I still can't accept the results then I would have to move. But I sure wouldn't hold the "military personnel" any more responsible than I would the citizens.
And you do elect your representatives democratically. Yes we are a democratic republic, but you do have a voice and a vote.
Well all need to do everything we can to defund these terrorists and psychopaths and work towards viable solutions for dismantling and replacing these hierarchy's (like the military and government).