Oh boy, what a subject to bring up. But to be honest, I have to vent just a little bit about what I've been seeing and reading about in the news and would also love to get some feedback from you guys as well, whether it be the same point of view as mine or not. All I ask is to keep everything civil in the chat thread. I'm very open minded and respect everyone's opinions. I understand that this is a very touchy subject and has the potential to spawn heated debates which is fine, just as long as we keep everything civil.
Let me first start off by saying that my heart goes out to all the victims and everyone impacted by the recent school shooting in Florida. It's a damn shame that kids can't go to school anymore without having to worry about this kind of thing happening. When I was in school, the worse thing that we worried about was a fist fight and nothing else. At my school, we could smoke cigarettes in a designated area, carry pocket knives and it was not uncommon to see a hunting rifle hanging in the back glass of a pickup truck. You might be saying "Wow, you're old!" and to some I guess I am. But I went to high-school in the 1990's so it's not like it was that long ago, okay?
What has changed since then? Seriously? Well, apparently a whole damn lot has. Of course cutting out smoking is a no-brainer. But why has everything went to hell "recently"? It seems like everyone wants to blame it on the gun. That was the very first thing that I heard come out of someones mouth after the last shooting was gun control.
Sometimes I think we're focusing on the wrong things at the wrong times. The questions I had about this particular shooting was why was nothing done about this guy before this happened? It's obvious that he has an extensive past of mental issues, so why has no one taken any steps to get him help? I haven't seen or heard if this guy lived with his parents or not but I suspect that he did since he is still so young, so wouldn't the parents have picked up on some of his violent behavior? Several kids from that school have already said on camera how weird and crazy this guy was so I mean it's not like one of those cases where the suspect catches everyone off guard by acting out of character or anything. It sounds like this guy needed to be committed to a mental hospital for evaluation, so why wasn't he? Maybe he was and I just haven't heard about it on the news yet, if so, please let me know in the comments.
The YouTube comment he made about shooting up a school. The FBI said that they looked in to that when it was reported but couldn't identify or locate the person that made the comment. I call BS on that. I come from a law enforcement background so I have a little knowledge pertaining to this. In my "opinion" I think that either the FBI brushed it to the side and didn't take it seriously or they didn't feel like going through the hassle of finding out who the person was. I know that the FBI has a huge case load but this is something that can't be taken lightly. Over the years, law enforcement has been challenged with effectively doing their jobs because of their power being taken away. Ha! There's another touchy subject to get in to lol. But seriously, every year when we would have in-service training, there would be new laws that went in to effect prohibiting us from doing something. Don't get me wrong, I know there's bad police out there and some abuse the power that they have but I'm not talking about those pieces of trash right now, I'm talking about the normal officer trying to do his job. Whenever an officer performs an act, he/she has to think of all sorts of things trying to determine if he's violating someone's rights or not. It's like a chess match some times between the cop and the bad guy. Just the other day I saw someone criticizing a cop for not stopping a person that was walking on the sidewalk carrying another person that was intoxicated. Cops have been stripped of their authority in so many ways that sometimes they choose to just let it go rather than to push the envelope. I'm starting to drift off topic here but my point is that I think the FBI could have found out the location and identity of that guy if they really wanted to. Yes, it would have taken a lot of work but look at what it could have prevented. Again, this is only my opinion.
What is causing the recent shootings? I keep saying "recent" because this type of thing just didn't happen back in the day. Are people getting meaner or crazier? People are on more prescription drugs than ever before, do you think that has anything to do with it? What about mainstream media? Do you think that the media glamorizes shootings like this? It seems like every shooting has broken some type of record. Why is that important to mention? We just had a horrific incident to take place, who gives a damn where it ranks on the mass shooting list? The way it is these days with how these shootings are represented, someone out there is already thinking about how they want to beat that record, I promise you that!
Is there too many guns in circulation? Absolutely! What I mean by that is that there are too many guns floating around on the black market that are stolen and are easy for a criminal to get. I own several guns myself and think that you can never have too many. But, I'm also a responsible gun owner that takes the appropriate precautions to prevent my weapons from getting in to the wrong hands.
I fully support a "Gun Buy Back Program". This is an excellent way to get many guns off of the streets. I don't know why the government does not take advantage of this program more. I have only seen it happen one time in my area and it was a huge success! The local police department had a booth set up and they advertised on television that they would pay, it was either 100 or 200 dollars, for any type of gun, no questions asked and no paperwork to be filled out. You literally just gave them a gun, they paid you for it and you went on your merry way. I forgot how many stolen guns were recovered and just the number of guns in general that was brought in was staggering. But at the least, I think this would be a great place to start with "gun control".
Do I think that the belt should be tightened on background checks? Absolutely! Apparently we've got a major flaw in our system due to the recent events that have taken place.
So what's the answer? I have no idea, but I do know that there's no point in making pointless laws that will only effect law abiding citizens. Putting up a sign on the front door of your business saying that weapons are not allowed is only doing one thing, it's keeping a lawfully armed citizen from possibly saving someones life. A person with ill intent will care less about what that sign says.
Speaking of lawfully armed citizens or CCW permit holders. I would like to see permit applicants and current holders go through more training than what they do currently but that's another topic all together also.
I know there's no easy solution to this problem that we as American's are facing but I don't think that automatically blaming guns every time a shooting happens is the right way to go.
Approximately every 2 minutes someone is injured in the United States in an alcohol related car crash.
Every day, almost 29 people in the U.S. die in alcohol related crashes. That's one person every 50 minutes; according to NHTSA in 2016
Also according to NHTSA statistics. In 2010, the most recent year for which cost data is available, these deaths and damages contributed to a cost of 44 BILLION dollars per year!
Those alcohol related crash statistics are overwhelming, don't you think? But yet I don't see people on the news lobbying for alcohol control, car control or anything else related. Why is that? Is it because money and politics is more associated with guns?
I'm not trying to downplay shootings in general. By bringing up the alcohol stats, I wanted to show how many lives are impacted every year but you never hear about it like you do with a shooting and I don't understand that. Is it because shootings are more dramatic and make a better news story? I don't know and don't claim to have all the answers. I just hate hearing the same things over and over again whenever we have a tragic incident involving firearms. GUN CONTROL, GUN CONTROL, GUN CONTROL! That's all you hear and will continue to hear. What kind of gun control could have prevented yesterday's shooting? If a man is determined to kill, he will kill. If he can't obtain a firearm, he will use a different tool for the job. Perhaps he might would have learned how to make a bomb on a remote, timer or contact switch. Then he could have killed who knows how many people without even being there and who knows when he would have gotten caught?
Like I said before, I'm all for making the background checks more efficient and trying to keep guns out of the hands of people that don't need them. But instead of just screaming gun control all the damn time, I think we need to take a step back and see if we can figure out why this is even happening in the first place.
Hopefully everything I said made sense, if not please ask. Feel free to express your opinion on the matter, maybe together we can come up with an answer.
Thanks for taking the time to visit and read my blog. Feel free to follow along with me on this Steemit journey as I have many law enforcement related stories that I want to share with you! @bluelightbandit
I am a LEO and firearms instructor so you can imagine I lean towards not supporting gun control, but I definitely agree there needs to be stricter parameters concerning background checks and ccw licensure.
One of the biggest issues in my opinion is the failure of the mental health system over the recent decades. We have an enormous amount of individuals with mental health issues that are not getting the treatment and help they need. It has devolved into a major "grey" area in the criminal justice system. Just recently, even our local county maintained ambulances are refusing to transport mental health individuals without injuries, even if they are requesting to go to the hospital voluntarily. As usual, it falls back on law enforcement who are not necessarily trained to deal, transport, or treat with mental health issues.
Once we get them to the hospital they are usually "stabilized" and turned back out like an assembly line without addressing the underlying mental diseases for a long term cure/treatment. There are fewer and fewer public and private residential programs that are needed to truly change and treat these individuals. But like so many other "undesirables" in our society, they fall through the cracks and no one want to deal with them or their growing problems.
The vast majority of active shooters have know mental health issues that were not treated or allowed to go without treatment. Even the interviews with people who interacted with the most recent Florida shooter, people over and over said there was something wrong with him, or he had "problem".
We have a much larger people and society problem than we do a gun problems. Just my humble opinion though.
Ha! I knew that you were an instructor like myself! I read one of your posts and I could tell by the way that you "outlined" everything. I swear, reading your post brought back horrible memories for me at the Justice Academy, sorry lol.
I agree with everything you said and can also relate. I'm not sure what state your in, but in North Carolina, we actually had one of our largest mental health facilities to close down several years ago due to funding. In my own area, we had small facilities with under-trained and under-qualified staff working in these places and it was a nightmare. These people were not capable of handling mental health patients. Then all of the sudden they found out about the involuntary commitment process and started abusing the sheriff's office. They would call us all the time and it would drive me insane! At the time I was a patrol sergeant and I got called to the home due to a disturbance call. Once I arrived, the staff member advised me that one of the patients was smoking in his room and wouldn't give up his cigarettes or matches. It took every fiber of being to control myself from saying something inappropriate to this woman so I looked at her with a raised eyebrow and said "What exactly are you expecting me to do about it?". She looked shell shocked and said "I want you to go search his room and find the cigarettes." I shook my head and told her that I was not going to go search his room and that isn't my job. I further told her that the sheriff's office was not here to enforce their rules for them. I explained to her what services my department could provide her if she needed any future assistance and un-assed the area. After that, the calls slowed down but they started claiming that the more troubling patients were a danger to themselves and others and started filing 73 papers. It was basically just a poorly funded, poorly trained home for mentally ill patients. The sad part is that the patients are not getting the appropriate level of care that they need in those types of homes.
Ahh, don't ya just love Fire and EMS lol. I don't know what it is but it seems like wherever you go, there's always some kind of tension between all three departments. I appreciate what each one of them do but they can be a real pain in the ass some times. Just like you mentioned about not transporting voluntary commitments, why does that have to fall back on the law side? I've had people willing to go to the hospital but didn't want to ride in my patrol car for obvious reasons. Grrr, don't get me started on that or we'll be here all day. I've just had too many incidents happen where....well, you know. But anyway...
The famous revolving door I am also familiar with. It's not only for criminals but for mentally ill patients as well. I've seen this scenario multiple times as well. We pick up the patient and take them to the hospital just to bring them right back home a few hours later. Or if they do get sent to a proper mental hospital, they are usually released after the minimum mandatory 3 day hold. I don't mean to sound judgmental and pointing fingers but there is obviously major flaws in our system that needs to be addressed. Great response!
I agree with a lot of what you had to say. On the gun buy backs I do see where you are coming from, people who aren't willing to use those firearms for self defense might be more prone to theft of that firearm. But on the flip side there are some nice weapons being turned in that should really be going to collectors, a Kel tek not so much but a nice M1 Garand. And I think we need to address the mental health issue. It really comes down to a degrading society that has less value on human life. The meds they give kids or people in general have warnings about becoming violent or suicidal. A lot of kids these days aren't brought up with good family values. It really isn't one thing but a multifaceted issue. The media glorifying each of these events doesn't help either, I think they add fuel to the fire.
Great reply man, thanks!
You really offer some potent and thoughtful points here and our conversations on the subject in the past have already clarified my stance on the subject. I completely agree with the gun buy back program and stricter parameters and training for gun purchases. And I agree that your questions here -
are at the heart of the REAL issues behind gun use, these crazy shootings etc...
I'm still learning about this issue and want to continue doing so before taking any kind of stance, but truly appreciate your knowledge, experience, clear intelligent thinking on this subject and your peaceful approach to the subject!
Hi Ruth! First of all I want to apologize for taking so long to reply to your great response. I haven't been feeling very well for several days and Steemit was placed on the back burner unfortunately. I greatly appreciate your open mind and reasonable way of thinking. I believe that we as society could make much more progress if we all thought and acted in this manner instead of being 100% this way or 100% that way.
One of the sheriff's in my state came up with a good idea the other day. The sheriff in Rockingham County is going to try and implement a volunteer program where retired military and law enforcement, honorably discharged military or off duty LE can volunteer their time to go to schools that don't already have a School Resource Officer there and patrol the campus. He's currently working with the Justice Department now to go over qualification requirements and such. I would love to volunteer my time for something like this and think it's a great idea. I would much rather see this happen than the "arming of teachers" idea that I recently read about. Thank you again for your response, it's always a pleasure talking with you!
I'm really sorry you've been under the weather!
I like the idea of retired military and law enforcement volunteering in schools....seems to me that in addition to patrolling (which unfortunately seems to be necessary) they/you might have some good information to share with the kids!
PS. I agree that extremist views are less helpful to the world! When I was in college I went to see Elie Wiesel speak and he said that the most dangerous people in the world are extremists that are convinced that their point of view is the only "right" one. I've thought about it many times over the years and even more over the last few years as people seem to become more polarized in their views.
I'm with papacrusher on the mental illness aspect. That is a huge gap in our NICS reporting. As a gun owner and firearms instructor (and LEO), I also support gun rights. The area I see has the greatest need for improvement next to mental health reporting is straw purchases. But as long as a non-convicted crackhead is willing to buy guns for crack, it's going to be an issue.
We have a problem in America discussing issues without interjecting emotional appeals. We have to look at things realistically. What law/laws would have prevented the Florida shooting (or other shootings for that matter)? All of the proposed laws I have seen would not have changed things one bit.
One more stat to go with your drunk driving point. According to NPR, far from a bastion of conservative ideals, the medical community kills 250,000 Americans every year. Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the United States. Is anyone asking that we outlaw health care? Hell, has anyone even proposed one law to reduce the number of medical malpractice deaths? No. It is not sensational. Not emotional. But it is a fact.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/03/476636183/death-certificates-undercount-toll-of-medical-errors
Hi coldsteem! Sorry it's taken me so long to reply but I've been under the weather a lil bit lately. I received your PM and will get back with you on that as well. Of course you and I are seeing things the same way here and you're right, no laws would have prevented him from doing what he did. Thank you for adding the extra information about the malpractice also, I had no idea to be honest.
Glad you are feeling better. Let’s hope the response to this tragedy is measured. We don’t have a gun problem in America. We have a sin problem.
Well written and thought out. Very good posting for us to consider.
I am a lot older than you are. So, I have seen a huge change in our society since my youth.
I carried a gun everywhere I went. I used it for hunting and target practice.
I even carried it with me strapped to my back on a motorcycle.
Since that time. We have had population explosion.
Immigration and just natural and normal birth increases.
I don't carry a gun anymore. I think I should though.
I saw a sign for concealed carry training just recently in one of my walks.
I was wondering to myself if I should take the class to get one.
If enough sensible people have concealed carry. A lot less crime would take place.
jmho
Off topic:
I Resteemed the two residents of my house.
The "fighter and Katie:
Thank you
Francis
Hi Francisk! Sorry for the delayed response but I've been under the weather for the past several days. I will check out their posts!
I’m glad I got to your post before the time limit for voting was up. I just posted something on guns in America myself. If you get a chance give it a read. I can see we have a lot in common from this one post so I’m going to follow you so I don’t miss any more. Thanks For your service as a LEO.
Hello buzzard! Sorry for the late response but I've been sick for the past several days. As soon as I get through making my replies to everyone I will be glad to check out your post!
that's understandable, Hope your on the mend..
What an intricate topic you propose here regarding guns.
IMO guns are never the problem, but the people using them are. In the case of this horrible school shooting there has been so much mishandled information. Starting with the FBI investigation into the shooters back ground. I find it difficult to believe that any competent police force would have dropped the ball on this guy, let alone the FBI.
The shooter was adopted at birth and both parents had passed away from what I read.
Here on steemit there are reports of the shooting taking place 2 days before it was reported by the media.
Conspiracy theories abound including MK ultra. What I am trying to say is just what are we to believe?
The bad guys will always find a way to procure a firearm. Putting up signs saying no firearms allowed on premises only invites trouble.
Our second amendment was written into the constitution for our own protection against times of trouble and terror.
Taking responsibility for ones own inability to deal with life on life’s terms has become a problem with our society. Life doesn’t just hand you roses and candy and continuous wins on your computer game.
At some point coping skills must be a priority to be learned.
If anyone thinks this shooting isn’t a form of terrorism then maybe we aren’t looking closely enough.
Would you want to continue teaching after this experience?
How about being a student at this or any other high school?
One of the strangest things about this shooting was that there was already a fire drill that had taken place once on the day of the shooting. Then the shooter pulled the fire alarm to take advantage of the fleeing kids. Does anyone else find this suspicious or just me?
In conclusion, if people want to turn in their firearms for money, it’s their choice. More than likely, they weren’t in safe hands to begin with or the folks turning them in came by them under suspicious means.
Good law abiding citizens deserve the right to defend themselves against those that would bring them harm.
If anyone properly trained, at the school had been armed, then perhaps a few lives could have been saved.
Just sayin...🐓🐓
Just saying
I apologize for the delayed reply, I've been under the weather for the past several days. I agree with much of what you said but there are lemons in every law enforcement agency, even the FBI. I've personally seen culls in many departments that didn't deserve to be wearing a badge but they were. I haven't been following the case closely so I can't really comment or especially judge on much. Also the comment you made about how much of what we read is actually true is a good point also. When I based my opinion about someone dropping the ball, it stemmed from quotes from the FBI knowing about his history and other red flags. Maybe they were building a case on him, who knows? They will only release so much information to the public without an order. I know that some officers are being investigated now on whether or not they should have acted on prior information. But I'm not here to criticize the officers that had a hand in the case, but I do believe something was missed possibly somewhere along the lines.
The gun buy back program was designed for the purpose as you stated, to get weapons away from people that didn't need them to begin with. I own several guns and not one of them I would part with for 200 dollars, so that kinda gives an idea of the types of weapons being turned in, like Saturday night specials and such. The fact that it was totally voluntary and no questions asked made it a huge success. Why I haven't seen this happen again I will never know, I've only seen it happen once in my lifetime.
Wisconsin has over 300,000 conceal and carry licenses and I feel a lot safer going into a public place here, as opposed to, say, Chicago, where guns are banned.
The Florida shooting was a shame, but I think many people with a history of mental health issues should still be able to protect themselves, because many of them do get help, but then it follows them for the rest of their life and years down the road, when the past is far behind them, they still can't own a gun. Maybe if people at risk got a positive phycological evaluation, they would be given a chance. What about the mom who had postpartum issues years ago and was suicidal, it was temporary and now she's well. What about the young adult who dealt with bullying and said something to a mental health professional about offing himself. 10 years later he can't buy a gun to protect his family when they live in a bad neighborhood. I really don't think background checks need to be more extensive, but that's just my two cents. Great write-up and thank you for sharing your thoughts!! :)
Thanks snowpea for your response and I apologize for taking so long to reply, I've been a lil sick here lately.
I agree with part of what you're saying with the mental health issues. I think it should be a common sense and case by case thing. When I said that back ground checks needed to be tightened up on, I wasn't referring to mental health checks. If they denied everyone that has had some type of personal mental issue in the past, then hardly anyone would be able to own a gun, including myself. I've seen countless dead people, people shot and killed right in front of me, all kinds of horrible things that no one should see. I don't dwell on those things or even think about them much but I do have trouble sleeping. For those reasons and a few more, I was diagnosed with PTSD so that means that I wouldn't be able to pass a background check if they went that route and I'm even still a sworn officer so how are they going to get around that lol?
Great response, thank you!
Sorry you've been sick! I agree, it should be a case by case thing too. I can't imagine everything you must've seen, being a law enforcement officer! You must be a very strong person. I too would be banned because of postpartum issues I had almost 3 years ago, if the background checks were more strict over mental health issues. Hope you are feeling better! :)
hopefully everything will be peaceful and children can go back to school.
@bluelightbandit be careful in doing the task.
Great your news thanks sir
Ferris-wheels go around and around!
thats pretty cool to know. good news. thanks for sharing.
He who laughs last is just a hand in the bush...in the bush....in the bush....in the bush
Sounds like that Ozzy song you used to play all the time!
As a human, I think usa`s rules about gun is terrible, these rules temped that teenage boy to shoot in school...
What rules tempted him to shoot in a school?
That's pretty cool to know thanks for the tips by the way..
We're all driving Cadillacs in our dreams!
certainly background checks need to be more tight, but this whole scenario is exactly what the government want. hand your guns to them and Americans won’t have anything to fight them with. like lambs to slaughter.
Dear Friend
Greetings to my friend
You have received an upvote from STAX. Thanks for being a member of the #steemsilvergold community and opting in (if you wish to be removed please follow the link). Please continue to support each other in this great community. To learn more about the #steemsilvergold community and STAX, check this out.
I had one more quick thought on this issue. As a fellow North Carolinian. We have School Resource Officers in most of our schools. Notice that we don't have mass shootings at our schools? Who says a "good guy with a gun" doesn't stop or deter "a bad guy with a gun?"