On a post I wrote recently, I received an insightful comment that forced me to challenge the Bible and the teachings it expresses. My response was very lengthy, and touched on a lot of issues that I feel would be a great topic of discussion for Atheists and Christians alike.
I want to share the comment so that it may spark discussion among the community, bringing about mental stimulation and perhaps even education.
Thank you for the message. I can see that you put a lot of thought into it. I'm not sure how well I will be able to answer your question because my journey is far from over. I have reached a place where I see the complexity of nature on both the micro and the macro scale and cannot believe that we came about in any other way than by intelligent design.
However, when it comes to Jesus Christ and the Bible, I have way too many reasons not to invest my trust.
For starters, it's impossible to acquire an unadulterated version of the Bible, so we cannot know what is--supposing Christianity is more than just a system of control--legitimate scripture and what is historical propaganda. How can one trust in the word of God if he cannot validate that it is in fact God's word that he is reading?
Secondly, the connections between astronomy and the story of Jesus Christ are too overwhelming to be ignored. Zeitgeist has convinced many people that this connection is proof that religious scriptures are predominantly based on the stars and therefor many consider it a debunking of religion in its entirety.
I on the other hand, try to exercise as much of an open mind as possible, so I can adopt a perspective that leaves room for the reverse- being that perhaps the stars are in fact the story of Jesus, only they came about after his death as an immutable form of scripture for man to study the word of the God. The Bible states that it is a sin to study astronomy though, so if that is true then this perspective cannot be one of much likelihood.
Then there is the portrayal of God in the Bible itself. I spoke already of how we cannot be sure of what is true scripture and what is not. Nonetheless there are countless examples of God acting--in my opinion-- ungodly.
Examples of this include, but are not limited to;
- Confusing the languages at the tower of Babel so as to prevent man from uniting in rebellion against Him:
If God is all-powerful, then why must he fear the unification of man, for surely even together our rebellion would prove unsuccessful. This sounds all too similar to how humanity is controlled through the divide-and-conquer system to prevent us from banding together and putting an end to the horrors of the world. Why would an all-powerful God have to utilise the same method as these criminals who dictate society in the modern age?
- The tyrannical nature of the Old Testament:
For a God whom apparently loves his children, there are severe acts of punishment perpetrated against man throughout the Old Testament. This is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus that preach forgiveness, even, if not especially unto your enemies.
- The inevitability of eternal damnation for your fellow man:
If the book of revelations is a prophecy which will prove accurate, then one must wonder what is the point in life. Here we all are trying to combat the coming New World Order agenda, which according to Christians is the birth of the age of tribulation. To accept Jesus Christ and the Bible, is to accept that there is nothing you can do to prevent the evil that is dominating this world from fulfilling its goals.
One would then have to consider that only those who believe in Jesus Christ, and are able to endure the immense suffering that will come to fall on them--as stated in the Bible--will be granted passage into the Kingdom of God.
This means that to accept Jesus Christ based on the doctrine we are presented with, equates to giving up on your fellow man and accepting that the majority of them will suffer an eternity in hell.
According to the Bible, what I just wrote would be considered blasphemous. I care not put my faith in a God that would seek to divide his people rather than unify them. Nor do I wish to give my love to someone who has denied theirs to billions of people who did not ask to be a part of this world. Furthermore, I simply don't have it in me to accept the existence of a God who is seemingly consumed by pride. We are told that pride is a sin, yet in this alleged God's eyes, the worship of any other idol--even if doing so makes that person a loving and compassionate person towards all his fellow humans--is forbidden. Does that not sound like a petty human characteristic to say that overcoming the temptations of life and being a good person is not enough. You must also do it while continuously praising me and only me?
These are some of the reasons that I cannot submit to a religious doctrine, because from what I understand, all Holy Books (except the Talmud which is disgusting) are not too dissimilar in the lessons they teach.
I still think that one can learn a great deal from the Bible, whether it be a story or a true accounting of events.
My favourite lesson is;
Treat others as you wish to be treated: -- This should be a way of life for all mankind. If we were all able to adopt this philosophy and practice it in perpetuity then life would be the perfect example of a utopian garden of Eden. Though, I feel that it should apply to animals rather than just humans, because the arrogance of man to believe that an animal's worth does not surpass that of what value it can serve humanity is--I believe--one of the mistakes that lead us to find it easy to mistreat one another.
My point is, I can't trust the Bible based on the content of it-- and I cannot trust the content in it based on historical perversions of the scripture. For all we know, the Bible could be the very first instance of fake news and Lucifer really could be the saviour of the people as so many of these sun-worshipping cults and secret societies believe. The Bible could be propaganda that was spread to make Lucifer look like the bad guy just as the modern media did with Colonel Qaddafi to incite hatred against him. I really don't know what to think.
That was by far the most blasphemous thing I have postulated in this comment and would surely buy me a one way ticket to hell if the Bible was legitimate. But again that brings me to another problem I have with ascribing to the doctrine of Christianity.
If exercising my mind by exploring options without acting on them warrants the forfeiture of my soul, then I would have to follow in Lucifer's footsteps and turn my back on a God who would tyrannically impose such a law against me and my right to liberty.
I believe that I will find the answers I seek through meditation, though lately I have been having difficulty doing so successfully. I don't know if it is my state of mind preventing me from reaching the clarity of conscience I was once able to achieve, or if it is perhaps the ever increasing amount of poisons being added to our food supplies.
I still firmly hold the belief that meditation is key to discovering purpose in life. Even the earliest Christians used to practice meditation before Roman Catholicism came about and claimed that the only way to connect God was through the church.
The thing is, meditation has also been infiltrated with fake news in today's world. There are so many organisations currently teaching that the purpose of meditation is to elevate one's consciousness to a point which will allow them to become a God amongst men. This is akin to the Luciferian doctrine which speaks of how Satan was a good guy who revealed to Adam and Eve that God had been lying to them, and to eat from the tree of knowledge would allow them to become Gods too.
I don't believe this is the importance of meditation at all. I studied--not in too much depth I admit--the old practices of meditation that were held by the Chinese, Japanese and other cultures long before Jesus was said to have existed. They all speak of the purpose of meditation to be to rise above one's ego.
This has resonated with me for a number of reasons. I see the ego as the obstacle that is preventing man from overcoming our battle with selfishness, which is essentially the driving force for a lot of the world's problems.
Interestingly, Yawheh, the name that I believe God revealed as his own to Abraham, translates in Hebrew to "I am that I am."
This would mean, if true, that God's name is I am and to speak it is blasphemous. Couple this with the fact that the music industry and advertisement sector--which we know is promoting Luciferian agendas openly nowadays--throw this term around way more often than could be considered a coincidence, then one must wonder if there is some truth to I am being the name of God and our egos being the locked door that prevents us from connecting with Him.
I have a theory, though it is perhaps a little wild, on how Lucifer could actually be the manifestation of God's ego, and how the battle between good and evil is a battle between God attempting to overcome his own omnipotent sense of pride. He has more reason to have an ego than anyone, and if he did you would imagine that it be immeasurable in proportion to that of ours.
Consider for a moment, that perhaps we are all a part of our Creator, and for His ego to be overcome, it must be done so by all of humanity overcoming their own--which is in fact also a part of His. I plan to touch on this theory in a little more detail towards the end of this piece of writing, but I just thought I would present it to you so that it might explain why currently, I am more interested in overcoming my own selfish sense of pride than I am in indulging that of the God portrayed in the Christian Bible.
I apologise for the length of this. It could have been an article in itself.
If you are an atheist, let us know what obstacles to faith in religion you are faced with. If you are religious, share your opinion on the Bible, or your Holy book and why it should be taken as the Gospel of truth. Perhaps you will even change my mind on a few things.
A very interesting post indeed. I love that you are inspiring discussion and sharing of perspectives. One piece of your text especially spoke to me:
I live at the eco-village community in Texas called the @gardenofeden. We live by the Golden Rule - Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You. It is amazing how beautiful life can be when one lives true to this simple awareness. Just wanted to share that it is possible, it is already happening. I'm not sure if I learned that at church or kindergarden, but the simplicity of living that rule alone changes everything.
I've enjoyed this dialogue. Thanks for posting.
Thank you for the message. Only a couple of years ago I was looking into joining an eco-village myself. I had grown too disgusted with the system and felt the need for an escape.
There are quite a few of them in Scotland and I was thinking of exploring one named 'FindHorn.'
It may seem silly now but, it was the name that put me off. Since then I have learned that there are perhaps nefarious motives pertaining to the organisation, as well as cult like practices. Oddly enough, I have even seen it mentioned as a point of interest by many pizzagate researchers looking into ritual sacrifice. That's just bewildering and I'm glad I decided not to go.
It seems that the corruption of the system is spreading to areas supposedly outside of the system, making an escape more difficult for people.
It's inspiring to hear that this is working for you and your community and I hope to see more successful projects likes this come into fruition in the future.
I am familiar with Findhorn--but only through books. I went to Scotland, and though was intrigued, I never made it there.
I wouldn't believe most of what is shared through media or sources that are looking from the outside in. The City of Arlington raided us, hoping we were a drug cartel, and of course spread all kinds of fear and untruths about us. No one actually asked us to debunk any of their fears of this uncommon (in the states) lifestyle. I give little credence to other people's opinions based on fear and limited perspective. (Of course the City acted dishonorably and all of their claims unfounded.)
It is my observation that people who come to the @gardenofeden to escape never really make it here. Those who make it are those who are coming toward something that inspires them, rather than running away from something -- which ultimately is only running away from the self. It is easy to see how and why people become disillusioned with the way things are. Now all they need is to reinvent their dream and move in that direction. Grateful to be part of one such example/solution.
Standing together for values makes us energetically strong in numbers. Grateful for your comment and excitement to touch the touchy subjects!
I understand this perspective, though I don't think it is applicable in my case. Yes, I wanted to escape the system. But, I already knew what I wanted before I found out about eco-villages.
I wanted a place where the predominant sentiment is not to consume, consume, consume. A place where I could put in work, not to make some corporations and bankers even wealthier, but so that I and those around me could benefit. I hoped to find somewhere were unity is the priority, rather than the survival-of-the-fittest attitude that is so ripe within the culture of today.
I hadn't the slightest inclination that their were communities outside of the system that were embodying these characteristics until someone who knew me very well suggested that it may be something that would be great for me.
Alas, I obviously didn't go though with, and now I find myself on a different path. But it is an option that I keep open for the future even though I am no longer feeling the need to escape.
I feel you!
When love and passion become the focus, not money and control, things will certainly shift. I feel community is the wave of the future. Instead of struggling alone to get by, we are helping each other thrive. A waaay more sustainable option.
There's a time for everything. Grateful to be here with you now.
This person has the same reasons I do, even if the biblical god was real I couldn't follow it. People ask me if I am not afraid to be wrong, afraid to be punished if this god turns out to be real, they ask what I would do if god all of the sudden just showed up... I tell them that one of us would get fucked up, probably me because I don't have all the super powers, but that given what I've read that god has done I wouldn't be able to contain myself from jumping him if I ever saw him. So much injustice, so much suffering, words are not enough.
I sleep vey well at night knowing that if I don't wake up I'll be fine. My mother who still believes wakes up in the middle of the night screaming because she's dreaming up all the apocalyptic prophesies she invests her time into believing. Spends her days on youtube hearing people talk about how exactly others are going to be ripped to pieces any day now...
I'm not an Atheist, but I rather burn than worship the biblical god. I've seen the consequences of embracing those texts fully.
If Satan does have lava pools and I am sent there it would be easier for me than all other souls since I'm from the caribbean. This means my reputation will soon increase in hell and perhaps one day I could be promoted to a demon and take over a body on earth, get back on the game. What are you going to do in heaven all day in and out? Worship?
The only reason this god demands worship is because it can't exist otherwise, but I hope it does, that'd make getting rid of it easier, ironically.
I always had a problem with the concept of WORSHIP. Why should I have to WORSHIP a being anyway if it is a benevolent being?
"You don't worship me, so you must now die and not only die but suffer beyond the scope of a single life."
FEAR as the ultimate motivator. (Not actually LOVE like it claims)
That documentary is truly an eye opener on some concepts... It also provides some keys to what I think is actually going on.
It shows the working of MAN, not of God, and how the narrative changes to better assimilate others.
It is more like a weapon than something good.
Very interesting perspective. I should have made it clearer that the comment I shared was one which I had written myself. So, i agree with you on a lot of things. I am not an Atheist nor Agnostic either. I believe in a creator yet struggle to see religion as anything other than systems of control.
What you said about sleeping well at night while your mother has difficulty is noteworthy. It makes me think of the fact that the majority of serial killers tend to also have been very religious, and often claim they were influenced by God or by demons.
I recall a quote I once heard, though I'm unable to remember who said it.
If there truly is a God, then it must be assumed that religion would be more of an insult to Him than Atheism.
This speaks to the horrors that have fallen on humanity in the name of God and religion and is yet another reason to avoid following doctrines which have been interpreted by so many as a reason to slay their fellow man.
I enjoy your sense of humour in relation to your comment about hell. But, on a serious note, a God who would permit the existence of a realm of eternal suffering while preaching forgiveness does not sound like one I'm willing to worship either.
Thanks for sharing!
Great post. I have made some similar points in my previous posts to explain why I don't believe in organised religion at all. The human factor is a big problem for me.
This has some parallels to the gnostic beliefs and the concept of the Demiurge ( think that is what it is called).
I have never heard of this Demiurge, but I'm curious now as this is a theory I was under the impression that I came to on my own. I'm going to have a look into it now. Thanks for the comment!
You're welcome:)
Respectfully, not one word of the Torah or OT is about this world...
“Woe unto one who says that the Torah comes to tell literal tales… all the words of the Torah have the uppermost meaning… when it came down to this world, the world could not tolerate it if it had not clothed in these mundane clothes, which are the tales and words… Such is the Torah. It has a body, which is the Mitzvot of the Torah, which are called “the bodies of the Torah.” This body clothes in dresses... which is the story of the Torah. They do not know more and do not consider what exists underneath that clothing.” Zohar, BeHaalotcha [When You Mount] Paragraphs 58-62.
Second; Y.H.V.H, the Tetragrammaton, (or as you said, Yawheh, which is also incorrect for a number of reasons,) does not translate as "I am that I am." It is to Moses who God introduces himself as "I will Be what I will Be," with the name "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh." (Exodus/Shemot 3:14)
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
יד. וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל משֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
Last, you say that "the Talmud is disgusting." These rumours go back for thousands of years, and are basically quite silly, and entirely dependant on people's lack of Hebrew or Judaic understanding. First of all, most of the claims against Talmud use completely made up quotes, with made up book names, and a made up page numbering system.
Otherwise, what people don't understand is that the Talmud is a series of debates on the application of the Laws given to Yisrael, where the most extreme examples are used on both sides, in order to deeply explore a given question. For example, what is the legal status of a 3 year old girl who was raped? Some Rabbis intentionally (almost sarcastically) and for the sake of the question, (not that it is their actual opinion,) argue that she should have limited rights in marriage, while the others take up her charge, and say that "her rape means nothing, it is as if it didn't happen." (again, in the context only of this legal question, not in terms of her physical or spiritual health, which is explored elsewhere.) Through various logical examinations, the Rabbis conclude that this is the winning argument, and should thus be applied should the need arise... So what claims do you imagine would flow from a purposefully bad, or at best, ignorant reading of the (much more lengthy,) debate? That's right, when the exact opposite is right, they'll say "The Jews say it's ok to rape little 3 year olds, and here's a quote to prove it..."
Every claim I've ever heard against the Talmud is false in its facts or in its conclusions. If you like, just provide a few quotes for me, and I'm happy to show you... I'm inphiknit on steemit.chat if you think that would be more convenient...
Ironically, some of your excellent questions are the very questions examined in the Talmud...
My understanding of the Torah is very limited as my research has never led me there, so it does not surprise me that I may have been incorrect about a couple of things. This is why I am careful to say, I think or I believe or It is said etc, as I know there is a lot of misinformation out there. Which brings me to the I am that I am comments..
I have heard Yahweh translated this way by more than a couple of people, and by at least one Hebrew. Is it a case of an ancient dialect that there is dispute over the interpretation, or is it merely another case of intentional disinformation?
When it comes to the Talmud, I am afraid I stand by my claim that it is disgusting. I have heard the attempted justification that you put forth before, but I have also seen various videos of Talmudic Jews in Israel commenting on the Talmud and standing by a lot of its quotes.
Just as the Mujib-hadine sought to misinterpret the Quran to serve a purpose of murder, perhaps there are those that choose to misinterpret the ultimate message of the Talmud?
I would love to believe that, but, when you take into consideration the Jewish encyclopedia, which as I understand it, is allegedly a refinement of all the best Rabbi's teachings from all Jewish scriptures.. Then you note that many of the despicable quotes from the Talmud are also present in the Jewish Encyclopedia, then it becomes difficult for me to justify any of the writings in the Talmud.
I do know that life is full of deception and people actively go out of their way to misinform people and structure their belief systems, so I'm open to you refuting this if you believe you can. You can find me on steemit.chat at the same username.
Moses is the first, to meet God with the Name Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, I will Be what I will Be. (In Exodus 3:14.) The Tetragrammaton to which you refer with the name Yahweh, is a different Name all together, which we do not pronounce or translate at all. We simply say HaShem (TheName) when we read the 4 letters of the Tetragrammaton. I suspect like many others, you have accidentally connected or, mixed these 2 up somehow.
Regarding the videos of "Talmudic Jews in Israel," let me somewhat rhetorically ask you if you think the word servant is the same as slave, and if you have ever chosen to serve someone or something... What would happen when one day the world finally learns that God Is One..? (As Prophet Isaiah says.) Would we not all serve Him by choice?
Of course the Jewish Encyclopedia would have the true quotes from the Talmud, the existence of which doesn't deny anything I said. (NB. it doesn't have any of the false quotes, which are many...) The Talmud does say something to the effect of the quote about 3 year olds as I stated above, but out of context, it is nothing, except useful to bigots. In context, it proves that the Talmud, and Judaism rightly stands up for the rights of 3 year olds!
I believe I have come across the Tetragrammaton a few times when studying sacred geometry, though I have never heard of its connection the word Yahweh.
I did say I wanted this post to result in some education, so I would say at this point it has been a success.
The videos I watched of Talmudic Jews speaking of their beliefs were on many different subjects, but if you would like one example. I recall a video where a Jew in Israel boasted of how the gentiles do all the work such as building the homes etc, so that the Jews can reap the benefits. Because this Jew believed, and he claimed according to scripture, that the purpose of a gentile is only to serve Jews, and when the Lord return each Jew will have x amount-- I don't recall the number--of slaves(gentiles.)
He also spoke of how Jews have souls but gentiles do not, as stated in a passage in the Talmud.
Is this what you meant by asking me the difference between slave and servant, do you think that all non-Jews will serve Jews willingly when they realise their alleged greater significance to all other human beings?
I don't believe you sound like the type of person to have such a belief.
The Tetragrammaton is 4 letters. Y (yod) H (hey) V (vav) and H (hey.) Without any vowels, you can just sound it out to hear the connection. Since there is no W in Hebrew, the weh sound of the name you say, should be veh, but still, we don't pronounce it... The JeHoVaH witnesses do the same thing except with the Y becoming a J. (There is no J in Hebrew either.)
Unfortunately, you will find some, who will intentionally misread things to gather ammunition. Translating the word servant to slave is a good example. But for your consideration, the Levites are commanded to serve God and the world in the Temple, are they slaves? Did you know that YOU, right now, according to our beliefs, have many servants, who in their minds, do everything they do for the sake of the world? This is the context of the discussion...
Regarding the claim that gentiles have no souls. (I know it's not yours, but this idea is ridiculous. Please just listen to the story in Genesis. Again, not one word is to be taken literally.) God breathes part of His own soul into Adam. From Adam comes all of humankind. Some behave well most of the time, others not so much... Here is what is actually taught regarding this idea...
"Q: You said in your lectures that only 600,000 souls descend to this world. How is it possible to explain that the number of the physical bodies in this world is much greater and reaches some seven billion? How do 600,000 souls divide among all the people on earth?
A: There is only one soul in the world, called “Adam HaRishon.” The soul of the Adam HaRishon consists of 600,000 separate parts. Each part is a separate soul that is corrected when it joins with other parts, other souls. In order to join with other souls, the aim “for myself” must be canceled, because a spiritual bond and full unification is the exact same thing.
By revoking this aim and joining with other parts, with other souls, each part, each soul acquires attributes from the primary soul – that of Adam HaRishon. A soul bonds with the Creator to the extent that it can bond with other souls. That fills the soul of Adam HaRishon, because the attributes of the Creator and the corrected attributes of the soul equalize.
600,000 is a symbolic number. At the first breaking, the soul of the creature, called Adam, broke into 600,000 parts. Then, over many generations, it continued to break into the following smaller parts:
Cain and Abel
The tower of Babylon
The rest of the generations
In addition, the souls constantly go from one body to the next, divide and unite, because they are in fact one soul divided only by our individual feelings. The will to enjoy for itself only is imprinted in them. You might say that there is only one soul, which is filled with Light, but because of our imperfection, we feel ourselves as separate parts of it.
At the end of correction, all the souls that feel separated will unite with one desire and one thought, one delight and one Creator." (Source)
Please, and without any haughtiness, here is the whole key; If God is One, with all matter, and all energy in the Universe, every desire, feeling, word, good or bad, etc, every person, then how do I serve God?! Or course! By serving every...
As you can see, in the World to Come, I will be your servant, just as you will be mine, and I have no problem saying it or anticipating those loving and peaceful days...
This is a very interesting concept in relation the one soul split among many.
I had never heard of this before, yet I find it odd that it fits rather nicely with the wild theory I was speculating at the end of the comment in the initial post.
For instance, one soul shared among everyone, one true consciousness.. Yet, the ego is in the way of the unification of the pieces of the soul because everyone's ego wants for individuality and focuses on one's self rather than on everyone as a collective body and spirit.
Thank you for sharing the source, I have so much to look into that people have shared with me today and I was supposed to be writing a piece.. Lol. I will definitely check it out when I have the opportunity to do so.
This is in many texts, may not even be Jewish if we trace it back.
I see no reason to follow any of the writings in the bible still, because anything good in it can be found elsewhere.
My vote is worth a negative one cent! (-$0.01) waaaaaaa :-((
I'm sorry, I shouldn't have voted.
Anyway, two pieces I would like to bring up:
The bible was written for a different people in a different time.
Take for instance this "romantic love" that causes people to get married. This really didn't exist until recently in history.
Thus, in BC times, motivation was mostly by fear. And thus, that is what is written. After BC we started to move into motivation by love.
The other thing is that to really learn about holy texts, read all of them. Then a whole pattern starts to form. From different perspectives, you get a much better understanding of the creation story, etc. You also get another very important thing, that there isn't one god. In Buddhism, you see there is the supreme godhood, the one that is above everything, that is everything, and then there are the three gods of this universe. Brahma, Krishna, Shiva. Similar to the God, Son and Holy Spirit.
Elohim is the being(s) that created the structure of this universe. But, they are not the supreme godhood. And so, in the bible it is important to note the words Elohim, but today's christianity just lumps them all in together as one.
It has gone down a couple of dollars because the price of STEEM is tanking at the moment, so don't worry about it lol.
To read every Holy text is huge commitment that will take a long time to achieve.. I do study a bit of religion here and there because I like to know the reasons for why man has fallen to such levels of depravity. I imagine before my time is up I will have looked into each of the religions in depth, but life is very distracting especially recently, and opportunities to find the the time to indulge in such long reads are scarce as of now.
I know of Krishna obviously, and also of Shiva the God of destruction (Why does there need to a God of destruction?). I have never heard of Brahma however. I know of Maitreya though, who is expected to be the next Buddha on Earth and is supposedly already living and acquiring a following. Some speculate however, that this is the Anti-Christ.
There is so many different stories coming from so many different people, and so many alterations to the Holy texts, that it is hard for someone to figure out what the original stories are..
On the anti-christ. Since so many christians are not being very christ like... if Jesus came back today, would he be branded the anti-christ?
Why destruction? Because it is the in-breath and the out-breath. They are two parts of the continuum.
Life does not end at death, it is but a doorway into a larger realm.
The stories all come together. They just do, as you collect more of them. It is not the specific words that are important, it is the meaning they are trying to convey.
How do we know we aren't reading it similarly because we are similar and not because the text meanings are? How do we know the similarities in sacred texts don't come from sharing the same condition as humans? (both rethoric)
Can you point out something good that would necessarily need to be learned by using Abrahamic texts because it can't be found anywhere else? (not rethoric)
I do not know what you are asking here. I do not know what "it" stands for.
Are you assuming that the sacred texts all stem from the same original text?
Are you trying to ask if all the sacred texts are different tellings by different people who experienced the same phenomena?
Yes, ancient holy texts try to take the divine and distill it down into human understandable terms. Very similar to someone trying to describe an acid trip, of some importance, to a gathering of people. Humans are very linear. We think of time and space as linear. Even our math is linear. However, space is curved and time is a loop. However, humans don't really have ability to stop thinking linearly. So, the best of our books are attempts to distill what happened down into human understandable terms.
The bible has many good stories. It is not unique in that. Seek and you will find, and it may be a totally normal book that no one considers sacred, that gives you your answers.
Reading the Bhagavad Gita is difficult for western people. Because it assumes a Tibetan mindset. Such as, if you do not practice meditation you may think that many of the stories are euphemisms, when they are describing reality that a meditater intimately knows.
@tommycordero
Sorry, no more nested levels to respond to your question "Is there anything unique at all to the Bible?" so I'll post at the same level.
It should be obvious that whichever text(s) are written by God Himself would be inherently unique and ... priceless.
The problem is that anything that good would be counterfeited a thousand different ways by people who think like most in this thread. (i.e. that their thoughts are just as valid as the words of our Creator.)
So our task is to sort out the wheat from the chaff. There is no substitute for study here. In some cases it's easy: a self-proclaimed prophet emerges, pronounces a bunch of teachings that only he can vouch for and these are used to enhance the persons own power, wealth, and glory and perhaps the earthly benefits of his followers. Nothing backs up his story.
On the other extreme, the Bible is a collection of 66 consistent and self-reinforcing writings from 44 authors over 1500 years covering 6000 years of past and future history. This is coupled with plenty of eyewitness testimony about those authors and the supernatural things some of them were able to do. Nothing else is like it.
So, if God did communicate with man, there are very few choices out there that can plausibly compete. And it's not hard to tell which one of those is real... if you do your homework diligently. Don't believe the statements that we can't be sure what the writings said. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the Old Testament hasn't changed in over 2200 years.
On the other hand, if God wanted there to be certainty so that everyone would have no choice but to believe, he would give each of us our own personal copy etched in stone while we watched with lots of other follow-up miracles just to make sure we were certain.
Since He clearly doesn't do that, He clearly wants to leave room for those who don't want a relationship with Him to walk away.
We see those kinds of folks throughout this thread.
They will be allowed to walk away.
I am just trying to find whether there is anything unique at all in the bible. Is there any good lesson we can learn by reading the bible that we can't learn by other means?
The bible is chok-full of good stuff. And it is written for a european mindset.
That said, there is nothing in it that is not found elsewhere.
If you go all around the world, and talk with many aboriginal tribes, they will tell you very similar tales of the origins and will tell you many similar prophecies of our times today. It is all drawn from the same well (of knowledge) so to say.
This is why I suggest reading many texts. When you have several different views of the same thing, you get a better understanding of it.
Such as, the story about adam/eve eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Most christians believe this is a real tree. And most describe the fruit as an apple. Do you know the kabbalah's tree of life? It is a symbol representing the structure of the energies of this universe. That is closer to the way tree is used in that bible story. And if you understand the Tibetan teachings of the dualistic universe, you will understand what is meant by good/evil far more. (and you will not translate them into good and bad)
And that's the thing. Having read some other books I can tell that there's nothing good in the bible that I can't find somewhere else, if I am looking. However, I think there are certain confusions that can generate from these particular books (all that follow Abraham) and the way they are written which in my opinion is enough to avoid them.
It's like in Steemit, I might FOLLOW some blogs with authors that have spoken some truth about a subject and yet I don't agree with on another. Because I don't agree with them it doesn't mean I don't think they can't contribute, I've seen them do it in the past and that is why I am following them. But then there are other authors I don't follow because what they speak doesn't resonate with me and this doesn't mean they are lying, but they are not speaking to any truth I can understand. This could change later on and if that were the case I wouldn't have a problem subscribing.
But then there are those I have followed and they get stuck in one message, and they keep posting the same article over and over again that still doesn't make sense regardless of its wording, at some point I'd feel that they are taking too much of my ATTENTION with a message I may have even confronted them about and still makes no sense. It is a problem when my attention is diverted from the stuff I want to focus on to stuff that I may consider to be irrelevant, and this is why we can UNFOLLOW.
If the user keeps spamming (because that's how I consider lies) the new tab and I feel they are still distracting me even when I am not following, then I can go ahead and MUTE them which I'm glad I haven't had to do here on Steemit yet.
But what happens when it's several users that are posting the same non-sensical stuff? The only way to avoid it is to cathegorize it, but even if you could name it we still don't have a feature to MUTE TAGS on Steemit, hopefully soon. IRL it would be a little more difficult mute a subject when it bothers us without keeping the speaker from their right to expression because we can't disconnect our ears or sight. But I like the options that we have on the internet, things can be more flexible here.
I don't mind the believers of this stuff, I don't want to mute them or anyone, I'd just like to be able to individually/personally avoid certain circles/cycles of repetition that in my understanding don't lead anywhere. By the same token we also need the ability to follow the subjects that we want to focus on, not just the people who may have spoken once about them.
If we could mute tags I would mute #bible along with other similar texts, but I am sure others would follow the subject, and that's okay as long as I have an option not to.
IMHO, and in the opinions of many across the world, the Bible is the living word of God. I read the KJV, and always have. It is difficult to explain to a non-believer (in Christ) about its merit and validity because there are truths in it that can only be clearly seen by those who believe, while others are immediately powerfully evident. There is also a depth to it that makes it completely unlike any other book, a sort of fountain or "wellspring" quality that provides new insights on already-read, familiar passages.
I offer you a challenge: Read a Proverb a day for each day of the month, and if you're up to it, 5 Psalms/day. See how you feel about it after that. I am confident that the Bible can't be judged based on a passing glance, a view with a set agenda to disbelieve, etc. There is a New Atheism (for example, what the ridiculous and debunked Zeitgeist movie spreads) that deems itself quite wonderful and brilliant. However, let me assure you that this is no special generation, and that the Bible stands true and unaffected by its challengers. I pray you find the Truth :)
PS: It has been my experience, as a now middle-aged man, that people will sometimes be willing to believe ANYTHING that does not deal with their sin and its eternal consequence. Then they adorn this "new" belief with fancy language and pretty words, to their detriment. Men are incredibly talented at fooling themselves.
I have considered reading the bible, but I don't know what has been changed, so I cannot trust it. I have more interest in the book of Enoch, and the gospel of Thomas, simply because they were censored, which to me means might actually be useful or important. I will take you up on your challenge though. Do you have a website where I can find good ones?