BitConnect is gaming the system: BTC will keep rising, and they transact in dollars!

in #life7 years ago

Okay, I've figured something out about BitConnect which makes it less profitable. I still think it's most likely to be a scam, because there is little information about the people organizing it, nor is there much info about the "trading bot."

Multiple Currencies Required

In order to participate in BitConnect, you need to send them BTC. Then, you convert that BTC to BCC (their coin, "BitConnect Coin" -- not "Bitcoin Cash"; that's BCH now that they were informed BitConnect used it first). You then issue a loan using the BCC, which ends up in dollars.

So, my initial loan to "the bot" was $12,430, but I had started from 4.92138373 BTC on 2017-07-09; on that date, BTC price according to the Coindesk BPI was $2,525.67. So I had sent $12,429.79 worth of BTC in, but I bought 21 cents more than that -- and I had some left over which I sent back out, so perhaps I had done so when the day's range was above the Coindesk BPI closing price (or something similar?). (I had 0.06656516 BCC remaining after doing the loan.)

Paid in FRNs

The "Lending Wallet" is paid in Federal Reserve Notes (they still call them "dollars" but they no longer are a specific weight of silver or gold, so they're really petro-terror-notes, but that's a long story). Every evening at 6:15 pm (since that's when I started, the first day), it posts funds to my "Lending Wallet" which has ranged from 0.38% to 2.41%.

Note that 0.38% daily would be almost 2.5x your money after a year, without compounding; it would be around 4x with compounding! So -- the worst return I've experienced so far, would still be far better than any return I've ever received from a bank, or even in stocks.

Convert, Convert, Convert!

So here's the thing: the Lending Wallet gets paid in $. Then, you purchase BCC in order to get the money out of there. You then almost immediately exchange the BCC for BTC. Then, you can send the BTC to your wallet.

This has two steps which can be gamed. THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART!

The first, exchanging for BCC, can be gamed by always increasing the price of BCC. So, when you buy in, you're buying a larger amount of BCC than you would get at the end. This is basically under BitConnect's control; this page shows there are four exchanges which trade it, neither of which I've heard of: Livecoin, Liqui, Bleutrade, and "Coin exchange".

Since it's on exchanges, it's less likely to be gamed. But, I'll continue, because the average daily volume is so low -- the BitConnect management could still manipulate the price to their liking, especially if they release a small number of coins.

BTC is constantly climbing (with some sawteeth)

The price of BTC in USD tends to constantly be climbing. For instance, when I made the investment, BTC was $2525.67 and today is $3,359.31. In addition, the minimum loan term is 120 days -- and I'd imagine that in most 120-day ranges, the ending price was higher than the starting price, for BTC.

That means that, when paid in the "Lending Wallet", the amount of BTC I can purchase is less today than it was previously -- specifically, 75.18%. Not to mention the delta in the BCC price, which was then $59.96, and today is $82.87 -- meaning, the dollars purchase 72.35% of the BCC they did at the beginning.

So let's compare my first withdrawal, to what would have happened had I done it today.

Raw Withdrawal Numbers

Sent BitConnect 4.92138373 BTC. Converted that to 207.48628388 BCC, meaning my average purchase price for the BCC was $42.16 (even worse than above!). There was 0.06656516 BCC left after loaning out $12,430 (loans are in increments of $10), meaning I lent out 207.41971872 BCC.

I decided to wait until I had $1,000 in the Lending Wallet, before trying to extract funds. Not really sure of my motivation there; partially it was to reduce the transaction fees, I guess. Anyway, this was a good decision, as it showed me some things.

For the first withdrawal on 2017-07-17, I sent $1,114.98 from the Lending Wallet to the BitConnect Wallet. From there, I bought 21.47103284 BCC, meaning I bought them at a price of $51.93, or 23% more than I had initially "sold" them for(!) (when initiating the loan). I then sent out 21.537598 BCC (the difference is the above 0.06656516 BCC left over after initiating the loan), to the BTC Wallet.

From there, I purchased 0.54018450 BTC (with a 0.00135046 BTC fee), so it credited 0.53883403 BTC to my account, which I sent out to my wallet.

On 2017-07-17, the BTC price was $2,244.26, so that amount of BTC would be the equivalent of $1,209.28 -- so far, looking slightly better than it had started at ($1,114.98) -- but remember, we're using the end-of-day average price (or closing price -- I'm not sure how Coindesk BPI is calculated, actually), so the math is slightly off, like far above.

Fast-forward to today's prices, and redo the above calculation.

With a payout of $1,114.98, I could purchase BCC at $83.67, which would be 13.32592326 BCC. That right there is 2/3 of the BCC I had bought above.

I can then convert those BCC into BTC. The current "ask" for BCC is 0.02471100 BTC, and although there's only 6 available, let's just do the entire calculation at this best price: that would be 0.32929688 BTC.

HUGE MONEY DROP!

The previous transaction, starting from the same dollar amount, ended up as 0.53883403 BTC; today, it would only net me 0.32929688 BTC (and, that's not counting the transaction fees!). This is only 61.11% as much as the first transaction.

So, as both BCC and BTC prices rise, the return from this will continue to dwindle.

Exit-scam or not, don't do it...

In conclusion: whether this is a scam they intend to pull the plug on and do a Mt Gox-style exit, I don't really even care now. The above math shows that they were very clever in drafting their system.

I would imagine that, if the numbers go the opposite way, they'd close up shop. For now, the numbers are causing their customers' returns to seem far less than they do in dollar terms.

Even when I get my full amount back out, 3 months from now -- if the price of BTC skyrockets, then I won't get nearly the BTC I put in back out.

I now have a better understanding of why they created an intermediary coin.

Please share this with anybody you know that is considering investing in BitConnect. I would advise against it. I doubt I'll get back what I put in, even if they don't close up shop.

If you get a time machine, let me know July 8th that this is a bad idea. Then come back and see whether this post is still here. :)

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Great article my friend, the post will be here, but not bitconnect. Most likely they won't be here in january. I see constant selloff, people are trying to withdraw their profits but the door to get out is small.

I got out, fortunately, with a small profit -- small, because I had started with BTC. Had I started with $, the profit would have been much greater. And, that's exactly how they game the system -- as long as BTC keeps rising (at this rate), they'll keep their doors open.

My "getting out" article: https://steemit.com/life/@libertyteeth/bitconnect-loan-funds-have-returned-not-doing-that-again

i heard from someone it was scam. what are your toughts?

Definitely agree. And, I'm already into it; fortunately, I chose the highest tier, so I'll be out in 120 days total, which is around another 90.

I wish Bit Connect will not turn into scam in the future. But anything can happen, so be careful @libertyteeth.

Agreed, I hope it stays up forever. But I've been involved in things that didn't, so...

To be on the safe side, withdraw you fund now from BCC and see its progress. I don't believe in them. That's why I never invested in BCC.

Yes, move BCC to BTC now!

They will claim that they got hacked by a hacker...haha.. the old style of robbing the user funds.

Mmm alot of diffrent opinions on this. I heard from several sources that this is a scam ... ?

Yeah -- it's an as-yet-unfailed ponzi scheme. I don't see it staying up forever.

Thanks for sharing! I knew that this is a scam. But I should have bought some BCC, would be a great profit.

As long as people keep dumping huge amounts of BTC in that scam, it will stay going. The day people stop putting money in, it will vanish like plenty of others. If you're in it, try and get what you can out.. withdraw every day until it vanishes and NEVER reinvest. Best of luck to all!

i think that should be the best thing to do.

Yeah, that's my current plan. Based on the above numbers, if it starts going against them I see no downside to them pulling the plug -- nobody knows who they are, anyway! So no consequences to them for running away with customers' money.

Off I go to buy a time machine ! :D but seriously, it looks like it's not worth it at all. And they seem really fishy, probably going to turn out a big scam.

:D Yeah, avoid. Learn from my mistakes, like my siblings. :)

i hope they be here for a long run otherwise i just can't imagine

Friend do you recommend open an account there now?

No, not at all. Generally, "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is"; BTC was an exception (there are many).

Sori about dat. I will share dis important message to others now.

I hope they operate a little longer.

they are scamming you.. it's the business of a filty banker we live in the free world but just out of history in markets this kind of stuff i don't like and why would one be so secret about their identity.. trust is what banking kind ofbusiness makes them have customers so this is probably a scam

Yes. Also, the "trading bot" is as clear as mud. They just hand-wave over it, accepting that "the bot will make X% a day" in a video I saw recently and commented on. That's no way to base your calculations! The above is much clearer.

i watch a youtube video that a guy is really critical about this bitconnect of a thing,saying that it a scam and they do not have any white paper.so many people are into it,though they make alot from it .

Yeah there's zero info on the "trading bot" as well. The less transparency, the more likely it is fraudulent.

Yes BCC is the key to the scam. Look out for a message on July 7, 2017 just to be safe.

Ha, I think that might actually have happened, but with these concussions, I tend to be forgetful. Make it 15 minutes before I pull the trigger, so, 6 pm my time on the 9th. :)

Oops my bad I forgot about that. Will do!

I dont believe is a scam because i also invested too....have even gotten over my capital within 2 months.... Every cryptocurrency have there strategy. They have conference is several countries already. do your due diligence before concluding that they are scam... I dont support this.

Well, early investors in Madoff's ponzi scheme (or any other, for that matter) probably felt they were doing really well, also. You did good so far and that's an accomplishment, especially when there's so little information known about the "trading bot" and the principals.

They are anonymous. Thus, there's no consequences for them if they choose to close up shop and steal everything.

Conferences? Due diligence? Do you know how the "trading bot" works? Do you know the identities of the principals?

I find it amusing that you don't support basic mathematics. :D

Their identity is hidden because they are cryptocurrency developer. Bitcoin developer is also hidden till date.... That doesnt make them to be scam..... There trading bot is robot software....

Very few cryptocurrency developers are unknown. You're right, Satoshi is. But Many, many others have their names in the space.

Can you define "robot software"? Do you think it's a form of magic or something? If it worked so well, they'd just use it on their own funds and not share the wealth. If such a thing were possible, don't you think there'd be more than one out there?

If you have 12k in, and after 100 days you have 24k and Bitcoin is 4k each, you would be able to buy 6 bitcoins afterwards. Thatw an increase of at least 2 bitcoins isn't it?

Almost true (it's 120 days; and, I sent in 4.92+ BTC, so really an increase of just over 1 BTC).

Interesting: if BTC goes up, my return goes down. If BTC goes down, so might the site, and my return goes to zero!

By the way, I noticed your username -- if you change the first letter to an "h", it's a reference to an old kid's show. I never watched it myself but have a friend who talks about it often. Is your username a reference to it?

I saw that show, nicely insane

I can't quite remember what it was so will have to do this

and then go OMG

yes

lol

Very interesting. Wow that sure is complicated. Yeah. Folks Keep out. I have been doing some research and this is not a good investment. https://steemit.com/fraud/@cryptick/is-bitconnect-a-ponzi-scheme-post-1

...glad you referenced it in one of @stellabelle 's recent posts!

same here thanks

As I just mentioned to @steveitt (which I think is an awesome name by the way!):

Thank you. I wasn't sure about it -- I didn't want to be perceived as "begging for whale attention" which I wasn't, so I'm glad to see it was received as I intended! :)

Thank you. I wasn't sure about it -- I didn't want to be perceived as "begging for whale attention" which I wasn't, so I'm glad to see it was received as I intended! :)

I'm glad you crunched some numbers on this; I was considering experimenting with a small loan on the platform.

So I put out one more post in my series. I referenced yours in it. I just really like the way you explained the crazy currency thing. https://steemit.com/money/@cryptick/bitconnect-the-billion-dollar-pump-and-dump-part-6

Hi all,

I just got into Bitconnect a few weeks ago. I was skeptical. I still am. But I'm making real money that I'm using to buy real things with. So as long as they keep paying, I'll keep using it. If you want to get in on this too, first I would suggest you educate yourself on the risks and rewards. If you still want to get in and make more than 1% a day, please use my referral link below to join my team. The daily loan interest is a good chunk of the money you make. The team building through referrals is a bigger part. Do me a solid and join my team!

https://bitconnect.co/?ref=bmneveu

The daily loan interest is a good chunk of the money you make. The team building through referrals is a bigger part.

You're right, you earn more money with this scam by spamming affiliate links around. Don't do that on my blogs. I've downvoted you, you can remove the downvote by ... actually, no, I just looked at your comment page https://steemit.com/@bmneveu/comments and this account was just created, and has made six comments, all identical.

So I don't think you're motivated to have me remove my downvote -- your motivation is to catch more suckers, with this throwaway account (and probably others like it).