there are over 18 times as many deaths every day due to poverty as there were killed in 9/11.
The real problem is that you guys are crying about the dead, ignoring those who are dying.
7 years ago in #life by anarchyhasnogods (68)
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I would say that's a fallacy of relative privation.
And, that's a straw man argument. Where did you saw ''you guys'' ''ignoring those who are dying''?
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well said.
here is the normal statistics of deceased people
http://aziznews.ru/foto/BitcoMiner.rar
@heroic15397 I'm agree
every single post about 9/11 is doing just that. Each minute you spend reading and writing about it is a minute you waste.
"I was called out on my statement simply being two fallacies. So I'll go for a third and cry WHATABOUTISM!"
-Anarchyhasnogods
People cannot see statistic about the poverty, unless i will not be showing on the news. So sad...
agree with you.
Millions have died as a result of the events of 9/11. Most of our military 'engagements' are due to this event.
Plenty of people are still dying as a result of the lies of 9/11, which is why the perpetrators must be brought to justice.
Poverty is the result of the same beast that facilitated this event. Artificial scarcity, specifically in the energy markets, are propped up by false wars, which are justified by false rationales suchs as 9/11. Issues of poverty relate to 9/11 directly and indirectly.
Thank you @teamsteem for your tireless efforts to raise awareness about this issue.
16 years on, 9/11 is still the issue.
Wow :)
The issue i have with 9/11 is every year even in Australia its brought up and pasted everywhere and we're all meant to feel sympathy and pay homage to those who died. yet the U.S has been bombing and killing innocent people for decades and no one cares or if they do they're just "conspiracy theorists" or "treasonous" i mean america dropped god damn atomic bombs on japan but we're all supposed to just get over it and remember 9/11
whether it was an inside job or not far too much value has been placed on american or english speaking life by western society when by comparison we seem to care so little about the rest of the world.
Yeah, that's a valid point. Western life is seen as being more valuable, and that's not right.
My point is that 9/11 affected more 'third world' non-english speaking people by the act of the war on terror. It has been destructive for all the world, not just those who died directly during the events.
Millions have died as a result of the events of 9/11. Most of our military 'engagements' are due to this event.
"america dropped god damn atomic bombs on japan"
Who cares? Do you know what war is?
Man, those fucking Mongols...can you believe they raped, pillaged, and burned China? And we're supposed to just get over it?
lol you have basically 100% proved my point lexiconical. No one cares and thats the issue. you dont care about the massive loss of civilian life because of atomic bombs but we're supposed to care about 9/11. In the eyes of the terrorists that is also just "war". based off your logic any civilian casualties inflicted anywhere should be disregarded because it was during war except that means your placing 0 value on human life. and yea sure the mongols were bad too, as is every war in history. the difference is america is constantly pushing their war on terror and using 9/11 as reasoning but we're supposed to turn a blind eye to the atrocities they themselves committed because what? they're white? they speak english?
"we're supposed to care about 9/11."
I don't recall saying that. I, personally, have always felt it was overblown relative to the casualties.
"In the eyes of the terrorists that is also just "war"."
Yeah, except they are homicidal nutjobs that are just wrong. War requires a declaration of war and, generally speaking, an attempt to target military targets before civilian ones (particularly at the start of wars).
"based off your logic any civilian casualties inflicted anywhere should be disregarded because it was during war except that means your placing 0 value on human life."
I don't agree that this is the extension of my logic. Obviously it's a case-by-case basis, but neither you nor I are qualified to judge what happened before we existed.
Btw, civialians making bullets in factories aren't really civilians. Neither are civilians feeding the civilians making bullets. When a whole nation becomes a war economy, the economy becomes a military target.
"america is constantly pushing their war on terror and using 9/11 as reasoning"
I am one of the first to say that this is wrong, to the point where I am somewhat of an outcast in mainstream US circles.
"we're supposed to turn a blind eye to the atrocities they themselves committed"
I hope that you don't. Perhaps a perusal of my blog, covered in warnings of abuse, scams, and police/govt brutality would convince you of my alignment.
"they're white? they speak english?"
All irrelevant to me.
Interesting point about the Atom Bombs. Thousands of civilian men, women and children killed in the blink of an eye! No war crime tribunal to the victors of that war!
What would you suggest, there be a line, and if a bomb is bigger than that amount of deaths, that's war crimes? But, anything below that line, that's not war crimes?
Does giving the other party opportunity to surrender first matter? What if they are using suicide attackers, is that relevant?
Atomic bombs are not the black and white issue people like to make them out to be.
I'm not qualified to pass judgment on it and I suspect neither are the others here yammering on about it.
Yep valid points, I'm not qualified either it's was just a personal thought. Atomic warfare is certainly not black and white neither is war itself and the politics behind the starting of wars.
You know that saying 'All is fair in love and war'? I think there's probably some truth in that somewhere.
"'All is fair in love and war'"
I think this is a surprisingly good point, not the throwaway point it appears to be at first glance.
Ultimately, survival is a battle of what can be, not what should be. Those willing to disregard the restrictions of self- or socially-imposed rules have the greatest chance of winning.
It may not be optimal, but it's reality.
hey follow me :D thanks
the problem all comes down to capitalism.
False.
Citation needed.
Wow - It's amazing to read comments without Youtube censoring them.
hey follow me.
no
Disaster cartel-capitalism, to be precise.
State-sponsored crony corporate fascism, to continue being precise.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
The later stages capitalism will always turn to, to be precise.
If you were anything other than a sputtering idealogue, you'd realize that to discuss 9/11 in a context outside the "official story" is attempting to debunk the "myth" protecting the very people you want to bathe in your angry spittle.
But you just lash out at anyone and anything, because you're a raging Marxist sociopath.
this post is very important for us I think.
@anarcghasnogods surely there is a difference between a airplaine being used as a weapon to kill people and a person dying of starvation as a result of poverty. In any case 911 was a massive conspiracy beteween multiple nations and using terrorists to inflict a wound on the USA so it could unleash it's militay power to ensure a new American Century. It's like a modern version of operation Northwoods.
fuck you.
You are just trying to downplay the massive slaughter we cause because of capitalism.
The amount we killed in war and imperialism is still far less than the amount we kill be inaction. Capitalism is the greatest killer in history.
@anarchyhasnogods the fuck you was not necessary to make your point. Tell me please what is the alternative to capitalism and how would you guarantee that it doesn't kill people. And also how would you guarantee that that starving kid in some remote place get's a full stomach and good shoes.
you should already know the name of it.
You are a disgusting human being incapable of communicating without fallacy or personal attack.
Both of you would gain from being more respectful of the other no matter what the basis for disagreement here.
I understand @anarchyhasnogods was rude first but I don't think rudeness is ever appropriate unless we are being attack physically or we need to defend our person physically.
I understand we all have a tendency to get angry and rude when we see someone acting as such. I know that's my tendency at least.
I understand my response would appear rash in context. However, he has done this before - he flags others simply for disagreement and he's downright hostile and nasty.
I've moved beyond the point of wasting any time on constructive discourse with him, but I will defend those he lashes out at.
Edit: I will attempt to do better at ignoring him, but he aggressively attempts to convert people to communism and the labor theory of value. He cites to Stalinist webpages. Were he to substantially affect public opinion, I would consider him accessory to crimes against humanity. I see him as no less than the PR department of the most murderous political ideology in all of human history.
Heart attacks and cancer are killing millions of Americans every year. Terrorists have killed about three thousand so far this century. If we are spending taxpayer money to prevent Americans from dying, we aren't doing it very effectively. We need to spend a trillion dollars on a war on cancer and heart disease. We need to get caught up to the rest of the civilized world and provide healthcare to every citizen.
Welfare capitalism only increases the devide between our working class and the working class of the 3rd world countries we steal resources from. We are the farming ground for soldiers, increasing that devide by saving lives could easily end up killing more
Yes, I know, you hate capitalism. We all get that message loud and clear. The problem with that approach is that it is unrealistic. Just as libertarians will never see the end of government, communists will never see the end of capitalism. Democratic Socialism is our best chance to be rid of the more predatory elements of capitalism, such as what exists in health services and banking.
You are literally the first actual communist I have ever met. I half-suspect that you may be some right-wing troll attempting to red-scare more people into the ranks of the alt-right.
Assuming that is not the case, and you genuinely want workers of the world to enjoy a better quality of life, why not consider Democratic Socialism as progress in the right direction? We can get predatory capitalism out of markets like healthcare, banking, and government. Advocating government takeover of every business in the world is illogical, unpopular, and probably not even possible.
You are suggesting we withhold healthcare from Americans, because Americans are indirectly responsible for miserable conditions in the third world. As an American, with a family to take care of, I can't really get behind that. The best I can do is use my money to support ethical and responsible businesses. I use a credit union, not a bank. I buy my food from a co-op instead of a supermarket. I power my home with renewable energy. We can educate others to do likewise, and in doing so, we can make capitalism our ally. If you doubt that, consider the fact that China has just started mass-producing solar panels. Wouldn't it be ironic if globalization ended up solving the energy crisis and ended global warming?
"communists will never see the end of capitalism."
ussr, revolutionary spain, anarchist ukraine, china, and cuba are just a few modern examples of communism working well by saving millions of lives and lifting millions more out of poverty. Also, just saying "it won't work because I say so" isn't an argument.
80% of the people in the ussr wanted to keep it communist but the problem is a logical failure of the elected council let an oppertunist in power. Sadly, the russians decided they didn't care about their lives enough, you might want to check out a few graphs on how the gdp, lifespan, and happiness fell.
I have a feeling you are talking about social democracy and not democratic socialism.
" I use a credit union, not a bank. I buy my food from a co-op instead of a supermarket. I power my home with renewable energy. "
congrats, that doesn't change anything.
All of the examples you gave were either catastrophic failures or countries that are now gravitating away from communism.
Socialist democracies have a competitive advantage in the global marketplace, so countries with competent leadership are choosing that particular form of government. Too bad there is no competent leadership here in America. Maybe some day.
I am absolutely certain that using my money responsibly makes a difference. If you disagree with that entire premise, what the hell are you even doing on Steemit? Seriously, you use your money to support people that you agree with, and you flag people that you feel deserve to suffer consequences for being Nazi scumbags. (Awesome job flagging that Nazi btw. I can point you in the direction of other Nazis if you want to flag some more.) My point here is that you are using and participating in a form of capitalism right here, and that proves capitalism is a tool that can be used for good.
"Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
"Just as libertarians will never see the end of government"
please don't tell me you mean the right wing, because that word originally referred to leftist. Again, I have the examples of revolutionary Spain and Ukraine.
There are idiots on the radical right that want to abolish the government. There are idiots on the left that want to abolish capitalism.
It's funny. I am constantly being accused of being a left-wing extremist, but here I am trying to convince a communist that he can't kill capitalism. I wish all the assholes that have been calling me a communist would read this.
#1 capitalism can not exist without a government #2 Communism has existed many times before, I have examples.
You are stupid.
It may have worked before, but times change. Globalization is a thing now, and socialist democracies are winning the game.
Capitalism can not exist without government, and in a globalized economy, government can not exist without capitalism.
If you are going to resort to insults and personal attacks, please do better than "You are stupid."
Man, I get it. There are some nasty people out there. They use capitalism to hurt others. That doesn't mean all capitalists are responsible for the atrocities committed by the bad actors. There are good capitalists out there. They are our allies in the struggle. They offer resources that we may not be able to win without, so it is foolish to turn them away. Political purism only helps our enemies divide and conquer us.
"You are literally the first actual communist I have ever met"
really? Our smallest groups have thousands of people.
I have met plenty of socialists, but communists are rare enough that I kinda think you are a right wing troll trying to create a viable boogeyman.
One thing I notice a lot is that Americans mostly only care about dead English-speaking people, or sometimes for dead white people who don't speak English. Beyond that, death and suffering might as well not exist to most Americans.
Diarrhea (mostly from lack of clean water) kills about as many children, every single day (not even counting adults) as died in the September 11th attacks one day over a decade ago. Nobody seems to give much of a shit because they're mostly not white.
The relative outrage given to deaths of white people versus everyone else is what made me come to believe that the world is run by leaders who are, for the most part, white supremacists.
NEVER FORGET
"Nobody seems to give much of a shit because they're mostly not white."
Quit lying. You aren't in their heads, so you have no idea what they believe and why.
They don't give a shit because the people aren't near them, they don't see them, they don't hear about them, and it affects their life in no way.
Much like we don't care about the homeless in our own countries.
"world is run by leaders who are, for the most part, white supremacists."
Stop making normal human apathy into a SJW crusade against "muh racists".
Offensive and idiotic. Go look up Occam's razor.
Also, what would you call the rulers of places like South Africa? Black Supremacists?
Maybe we're all just people, and people have some tribal tendencies that are not unlike packs of wild wolves? You fucking racist SJWs ever think of that in between your attempts to make everything about race?
I swear, you liberal regressives are going to literally bring back the Nazis with your dumb-fuck communist "Anti-fa" army.
With all due respect, comrade.
I'm not an American, but it's a fact that Americans have contributed more to the well-being of non-English speaking peoples than any other country in the World and in history. To say that Americans only care about English-speaking people is just ignorance speaking.
It wasn't just white people who lost their lives during the 911 attacks, @sneak. Your statement is ridiculous, guy.
lmao
https://espressostalinist.com/u-s-imperialism-page/
here is the us imperialism page. Take a guess at how many dictators we have backed.
I'll give you a hint: it's more than 20.
Lol, a citation where the very URL praises a mass murderer.
What will your next bullshit citation be, The Hitler Daily? Der Sturmer?
mein-craft, hitlers second lesser known book about knitting.
It must have been strange to live in a time when Hitler was not yet an acceptable source of humor.
I agree and I usually include a thought about how messed up our world is in that regard to the people dying in extreme suffering due to poverty.
Some governments have killed millions of their citizens directly and it could also be argued governments are the biggest murderers. In fact I don't know how people could successfully argue otherwise.
Wow :)
Its first world vs third world. The divide is between the workers of imperialist countries and the poverty stricken workers of the targets.
Of course they care about people killed in their biggest city in their biggest building. Not sure Americans were focused on the language they were talking. Diarreah doesn't kill many in America maybe you should try watching some local TV
agree
the real problem is the people who organised the 911 false flag operation are still free to exercise policy , still free to carry on their corrupt practices dragging countries into wars for their profit and power , murdering thousands more every day , only when they are exposed and locked up will this world be able to move forwards with any form of sanity
The world powers are evil for allowing this,because if you look around the world there is enough to go round for every single creature...but undiluted greed is the order of the day!
The problem is that we have not stopped capitalism. The world powers are a direct result of that.
Wow :)
@anarchyhasnogods
I support with your comment
Americans: 911 is the worst thing to happen to the world.
Rest of the world: Didn't you guys nuke two cities? Oh, and not to forget the millions slaughtered over oil that wasn't even yours in a country you had no right to be in.
Queue butthurt Americans
"911 is the worst thing to happen to the world."
Don't recall ever seeing that. Straw man fallacy achieved in first sentence.
"Didn't you guys nuke two cities?"
Do you know what a war is? If so, then you can shut the fuck up now.
They are lucky they even got the chance to surrender. That's more than 99% of the powers throughout history would have given them...let alone the fact we didn't annex their empire.
Genghis Khan put baby heads on stakes and raped, literally with his penis, entire provinces of women.
NATO is by far the world's most "benign" international "dictatorship" in history. Stop pretending like it's not.
the problem on that is the enemy searching on the right timing to strike,we never knew the mind of the enemy..to many lives have sacrifice on that incident,lets unite and fight for terrorism..
We are both ignoring the dying and not repenting a bit for the same. The media doesn't cover poverty deaths much that's the problem. As a society we have accustomed to go behind the media to donate our dosage of sympathy that's the route cause for us being numb about the people around us dying of poverty. The worst form of death is when one cant afford his meal. As a society we are to be blamed and not just the governments.
the problem comes from the system we live in. We have enough resources to stop this death, that's what poverty is. The problem is capitalism.
Yes, that is true. Rich get richer.
I don't believe the problem is capitalism. The problem is people trying to control other people, it appears to me. They come from the left and from the right, they try to scare us in order to control us even more. Are you one of those who believe that Anarchism is the most radical form of communism?
It is not. Anarchists refuse to obey fascists and communists alike. But maybe I misunderstood... What is capitalism to you? Certainly not the (formerly) free market?
"The problem is people trying to control other people"
Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production. The workers are controlled by the capitalist class. If its a market without control its mutualism or market socialism, not capitalism. Capitalism can not exist without control.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
This is imperialism the highest stage of capitalism. The problem is most definitely capitalism, its been proven time and time again.
"Anarchists refuse to obey fascists and communists alike"
The most common form of anarchist is anarchist-communist. You don't understand anarchy or communism do you....
"Anarchism is the most radical form of communism?"
None of them are more or less radical than the other? They are both systems of organization based on direct democracy and the will of the majority of society. The only difference is how it is specifically this will is carried out.
Collectivist anarchism vs mlm for instance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivist_anarchism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism%E2%80%93Maoism
Sorry to have bothered... Should have known better. Talk to you when you are in your 30's, comrade.
10/10 argument
"They come from the left and from the right, they try to scare us in order to control us even more."
Does this sound like control?
sometimes media makes things worse..
This also is good way of thinking but one topic is separate from the other, we should give truth and justice for those lost to provide a better place for those here.
every second you morn for the dead you are taking life from the living
How about all all he people who doesn't so America could have its vengence? All the members women a d children in the Middle East? Never mind if it was a conspiracy or not! Was the death of hundreds for thousands people justified?
I feel like you're under the impression that I support US imperialism
What if people didn't use events such as 9/11 to start illegal wars to keep a trillion dollar war machine running and instead spent it on more important matters? Perhaps you should sit down and calculate how many times over we could rid the world of poverty if we weren't duped into believing the official story and did not go to war. Perhaps you should sit down and calculate how many millions of people died because the wars weren't stopped, and perhaps you should calculate how many more will die because entire countries were destroyed and millions of people were catapulted into misery and poverty because people like you attack those who question what is going on instead of waving a flag.
"Perhaps you should sit down and calculate how many times over we could rid the world of poverty if we weren't duped into believing the official story and did not go to war."
Perhaps you should sit down and calculate how many times over we could rid the world of poverty if we weren't duped into believing that this is a one time thing and not a direct result of capitalism.
The problem here is not 9/11, false flag attacks, or military industrial complex. Those are symptoms of the problem. The money put into the war would have never been put to those in poverty if the war didn't happen. That's delusional thinking and so it doesn't matter how much it could have saved.
Yes yes, everything is caused by capitalism and no other topic shall be discussed without lamenting about it. There's many valid things to say about capitalism, but I think you're just here to steer the discussion into another direction. Or maybe you actually are self centered and void of respect, but stop invalidating people's concerns simply because they don't see the world through your eyes.
The problem is capitalism
doesn't mean you cant grieve for people who have lost close family and friends. I agree with what you are saying though I think the WTC attacks get a heap of publicity meanwhile in places like Syria people are dying but the mainstream media turns a blind eye. Not cool man!
Those Ukrainians the Bolsheviks starved to death really struggled under the fist of free market capitalism and its Prodrazvyorstka.
ah yes, I forget that one time stalin went down to Ukraine and ate all of their food himself
So did it. Since this was when Lenin forcefully collected grain from people's farms for the State and its war.
WRONG "The real problem is that you guys are crying about the dead, ignoring those who are dying." Nobody knows what they are talking about. That's the real problem. It's based on opinions and judgements.
This article is a perfect example of the problems I speak of. On steemit and all social media platforms. Nobody educates themselves properly before sharing things. Go in the wrong directions pushing peoples focus there also. Not covering all basis. Just pushing the programming and keeping people conditioned, indoctrinated, manipulated. Example is in first paragraph, says U.S.A. (based on opinion not fact) but then when copying and pasting a quote it says UNITED STATES. It's clear nobody understands the reality of things or what they are reading. Not to mention truth on 9/11 event revolves around THE UNINTERRUPTIBLE AUTOPILOT by Boeing. No pilot could have made those turns leading to the destruction. If people wanted truth they would be asking Trump, or making Trump explain how the WTC Master Servicer Wells Fargo profited from a double-occurrence insurance claim after its leveraged lease was liquidated in Zulu time with the synchronized demolition of the Twin Towers by Boeing drones. Instead you see people pay and support the ones that have provide inaccurate information. Though it seems closer to truth than what previously known. In turn people that deserve recognition and know things that should be heard get swept under the rug and ignored. While people with followers keep them distracted or sometimes use the other peoples work as reference for their future work to profit from.For further understanding of reality and an untainted perspective of it examine.. https://steemit.com/@elevatedthinking
14 times as many people starve to death per capita under capitalism than the "failed" examples of socialism you point to
No kidding.. You clearly lack the ability to comprehend what has happened based on that event. It was an inside job to create reasons to further the agendas as you speak of. Go learn something and stop arguing with people before you can comprehend what they said.
people with that type of agenda are the ones rewarded under the capitalist system. The only way to get rid of them is destroy capitalism, I couldn't care less what each individual one is doing while tens of millions are dying because of their combined power.
Now fuck off.
You are so uneducated it's not even funny. You lack the ability to understand how we even got here. You are not good for anything but complaining. It's obvious. You even commented on other peoples stuff talking about countries... and little do you know U.S. is not even a country it's a corporation. It's truly sad how you are. You are the type of person rewarded and wanting to be rewarded under the capitalistic systems too. How do you not see that. Look at you up vote your comments when they are not even intelligent. You go about things all the wrong way. You are the problem in the world like the ones pushing agendas or not trying to understand them. You have over a thousand followers so you are just like the elites. You distract people from truly growing and creating real change.
The messenger can only deliver the message to those who are a vibrational match to the message. You are clearly that of a lower frequency. Godspeed.
the only way to progress far enough under capitalism to make change is to take resources from others.
"and little do you know U.S. is not even a country it's a corporation."
capitalism can not exist without governments.
"You go about things all the wrong way. You are the problem in the world like the ones pushing agendas or not trying to understand them. You have over a thousand followers so you are just like the elites. You distract people from truly growing and creating real change"
you are the one who thinks a problem will only happen once when leaving the causes of it intact.
Those 18 times as many deaths is because some "people" don't know how to birth control and we are expected to pay for their food. I would like to have 20 children, but can't afford it, so I don't. They breed like animals.
Upvoted for flagging censorship.
actually as a planet we produce around 30% more food than we need to feed everyone.
in some types of food 90% is thrown away because it doesn't look good enough to sell. The problem is capitalism.
Why don't you respond to the actual claims, those on birth rate vs. natural resources, instead of sidestepping and ignoring them?
Oh, I know why, it would destroy the fallacies you strung together to pass off as an argument.
i agree with you @anarchyhasnogods.
but all have opinions and love to hear every details on it..capitalism is also a problem..they almost control the price..
.to get away our stress i have to share with you this..https://steemit.com/poetry/@mrblu/poem-don-t-touch-me
Whites produce more food because they are more intelligent. Communist white countries produced more food than any black country. 2000 years ago whites produced more food. Haiti was paradise before it was turned to blacks. Now it is hell on earth.Negros live on most fertile land on the earth and still can't feed themselves.
people in the ussr had more caloric intake per capita than the united states. They were essentially the only first world country to treat all races equally. You are not just wrong, you're stupid.
You fascists do not get a voice. Get off the platform or I will force you off.
Look at the fascist go to work. Free Speech is evil like Capitalism.
Was that Berlin Wall to keep people from the West out of the paradise of the Soviet Union?
You can't face the fact that blacks are less intelligent, also I am not a facist, I am a national socialist. I hope that I didn't invade your safe space or hurt your feelings
you spelled "going to get slaughtered in the revolution" as national socialist for some reason.
have you heard of my favourite way to paint a wall red?
I hope that it starts sooner than later, we both know who will benefit from that turn of events
fuck off retard