I'll take a controversial opinion that counters this movement!
Bid-Bots are almost always scams. The ROI almost always destroys any liquid returns and the notion that it "helps" minows is false by the fact that they are usually having their money ripped from their hands without their knowledge.
Carry on!
Wow, what a clearly uninformed response to something that has nothing to do with this post.
Bots are not about ROI in most cases. They are about getting noticed, which they have helped so many minnow do. If you are using bots for only for a profit, you are really missing what they can really do.
The proof is in the thousands of minnows that will gladly show and tell you that they have indeed been noticed from using them.
@enginewitty, @tattoodjay, @topkpop
Yes, this has been my experience, and what I've shared with other newbies like me. I don't expect to have a positive ROI just off the bot. I do expect to have a positive ROI longterm off growing my follower list by having my posts stand out more in the lists and attract more people to actually read my posts! I think I write good posts, so all I need is to stand out in the list, and that's what the bots do.
I came here from the resistance blog and honestly hadn't used sneaky-ninja before, but I'll be looking for it in the bot tracker list from now on! I can't really afford to donate SBD right now, but I hope to contribute toward your project in the future. I also like the "upvote healing only" approach. I don't feel good about being a part of downvoting, even if the person being downvoted is that asshole cat.
What invisible hand of the market is creeping into your wallet if you're fine choosing negative ROI over a confirmed positive ROI by a competitor
I have no idea what you're talking about "invisible hand of the market." Where did I make mention of that? I'm saying, I make more money using the bots. I can tell from the posts that I have or have not used them on. As in .13 or $8.
The difference isn't coming directly from the bot, but as an indirect result. I pay maybe 1 SBD to get the equivalent of SP and SBD back of say .98 SBD, but then because of how others react to a post with a couple dollars on it when it's showing in their feed, I wind up with many more viewers of the post. Since I do write really good posts, more readers means more upvotes. So I make more because of using the bots, just like any business expects to make money off advertising. They don't expect the advertiser to actually deposit more money into their bank account than they paid for the ad though.
Trust me. I know all about the organic Hot votes. I'm saying is you made the conscious decision to get negative ROI when you could have all args you made without negative ROI through vote sellers and queue list bots. That is the idiots... I mean invisible hand of the market.
Let's take all the benefits and ignore the harms. Let's take all the competitors that solve the harms and ignore them as well.
THEN let's tell people that the harms, which have been solved by competitors, are worth enduring rather than using the competitor that has no harms.... Right?
Also you don't get your investment back in SP, read the whitepaper and read the explanations of how the split is made.
Also also, do you even track when STEEM is rallying or... I'm just going to assume since you don't know how the split works you also don't know how MA affects payout.... Probably why you still think bid bots are worth inflating your post worth.
Oh, so you're saying, don't make money off their tool. Make money off this other tool instead! Okay, well we can agree to disagree about which tool to use. I'm not even 3 weeks on here so just glad to have even discovered the bid bots so soon. Before I did I was going down the road so many newbies go down of getting no visibility for their posts (because we start with no followers). But maybe over time I will be ready to use other tools. Right now I will not deny that the bots are helping me. I don't consider them negative ROI because I'm not only looking at the immediate return. But you do you. I'm certainly not trying to convince you. I'm sure what you're doing is working for you or you wouldn't be doing it.
listen, don't listen to this guy. You are on the right track. The truth is that if you don't have/get a whale in your pocket you will never be noticed here no matter how great your content is. Every single person that has actually used bots will tell you what you have said, you get more notice and more votes/views from others. There is also this...
since you get much of your original sbd back you can then use it time and time again on future posts with bots to gain cumulative roi.
I have not been able to figure out why this guy is being such a dick, maybe he's being paid or something but basically none of is argument is based in fact.
Welcome to steemit. :)
You can't agree to disagree on math! This is why I am more persuaded by grumpy cat than the stance made by the alliance. The math is clear. The math is obvious. The math is indisputable.
Bid bots are essentially scams. They convince you to accept negative ROI based off a damn marketing campaign that says "you'll get the organic votes from being in the Hot section"....
Hmm 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Let's go over what I said just so that we are clear.
EVERYTHING that you can "get" from bid bots are ENTIRELY non-exclusive. You get the EXACT same benefits from vote sellers and queue list bots.
Bid bots give negative ROI and sellers give 270% ROI. And queue list bots give 300%
You just proved my point on inflated post values. You've been on here for 3 weeks??? You're a noob! You never actually made a SteemIt grind for 5 months to get your level of post payouts. Instead of natural growth, bid bots have created a skewed pay to play system. A pay to bid bots to play the system.
If those 3 points that I've made oh too many times doesn't convince you that bid bots are a waste of money consider the morality behind it.
Any vote bots are typically created through SP delegations. So consider these.
I am a part of the team for 2 queue list bots. One reduced ROI a month ago and the other just recently.
If it's no longer profitable forus to sell votes that give you profit, why are there so many bid bots?
.... Because they are scammy as hell! They give you negative ROI!!!! ALL THE ROI IS GIVEN TO THEM.
You understand why grumpy cat flags bid bot users??? He's an OG. You haven't been around long enough to see how SteemIt has changed. You haven't been around to see what bid bots did to SteemIt. You haven't been around long enough to see that you are being scammed and that's why you refuse to accept that you've been scammed.
Grumpy cat is flagging because there's no other way you'll learn!!! You are sheeple that can't see how much money... Your money is being stolen by an utter marketing campaign that has turned you into a bid bot addict.
He is punishing you for the addict you are so that you can go to SteemIt rehab and get help for your addiction before you start spending your USD for SteemIt at a loss.
perfectly explained. :)
The entire case for bid bots is entirely non exclusive to vote sellers and queue list bots. Any rational actor would avoid bid bots which is why why professional blogger on SteemIt don't use them while any amateur blogger is going to Artificially inflate the value of their posts.
Great perspective!
From my understanding, this was to combat GrumpyCat's attack on bid bot users.
That is an honestly sad excuse for allowing bid bots to take away minnow's money. Minnows have to work hard to get their money and they blindly fork over their money to get god awful returns. Talk to any bid bot developers in servers, much like realwolf, and they all are utterly confused why people are willing to fork over massive losses just to get... visibility? That's as bad as resteembots. The better solution would be to improve vote seller markets which allow 270% ROI or queue list sellers that provide 300% ROI.
You didn't upvote me
This reply was for @indigoocean
hahahaha!!!
awesome!
Back at ya 😀
For instance, if you look above you will notice that this post was viewed by over 540 people. That was entirely because of bots.
Have to disagree. The bots themselves are not the scams. Neither are the owners. They are called bid bots for a reason. Granted, if you bid poorly, your ROI will not be significant, if there is one at all. But, they still help to boost people's posts higher in the rankings than trying to forge for organic votes they may never get.
In world A, we have vote sellers and queue list sellers with ROI ~ 270 - 300% ROI which leaves marginally higher to profitable returns minus curation and 50/50 split.
In world B, we have bid bots driving up delegation markets, giving marginal losses to heaps of losses, and whales using bid bots to further destroy the ROI for minnows.
World A, minnows profit, get visibility, get growth, and may get organic votes.
World B, minnows lose, may get visibility when competing with whales using bid bots, and may get organic votes.
Which world is better for minnows? Which world steals from minnows through aggressive marketing campaigns designated to make bid bots look like they are minnow success tools?
@GrumpyCat