So downvoting is a necessity in hive, it shouldn't be treated as nuisance.
It is nice to see you come around, you and I have historically not been on the same page on downvotes but we are still cool because you are reasonable. You have been downvoted before and you did not freak out like a maniac 🤣
But yea, for some reason Blurt people are under the delusion that what they are doing is not bullying and Hivians are going to run to Blurt.
If the Blurt people were just nice maybe we could have some kind of positive cross chain relationship. But people have to be nice first and they need to stop thinking downvoting is an attack if they want HIVE and Blurt to coexist in a positive way.
HIVE has downvotes. Blurt does not. They do not want downvotes. Sounds like they should be happy with Blurt then 🤷♂
They are not happy with Blurt. Why is that HIVE's problem?
Well, if you have been wronged and needed the steam out just fart and be ok. Its not that I did not felt bad being downvoted and sulk for sometime to it specially that i did not do something wrong and just followed community standard criteria. But as I explore more about using HIVE functions and meeting OG's, reading their things and get me educated, i saw that they never care and do what they want to do.. in a reasonable way of course. Maybe from the long years of experience and the drama of getting downvoted is just a replay in their own view. And i bet, that you santa hurt, as a new breed of whale was just being tested by the spammers of the old age for the reason that they were just treated as a comment footer by the old guys.
probably and hopefully that blurt users are not all like this.
why not place the download button to blurt too. So they also have downvote topic and avoid goin to hive to race this every now and then 🙄
Yet these top blurt users post here daily.
It’s a troll clown show over on blurt.
Btw not decentralized either.
!BBH
!PIZZA
!ALIVE
!LADY
i thought the are united there? never visit so idk what is going there.
The whole point of Blurt is to not have downvotes.
It is the downvote free alternative to HIVE. Why the Blurt people spam HIVE they would have to tell us.
I think it's actually to not have taxes. Indications of approval or disapproval aren't really what yanks peoples' chains. It's the taxation that angers them.
I am not a huge fan of taxes. I am more libertarian myself but not like we don't need police libertarian. That is too libertarian for me 😅
I do agree to some extent though, most people are mad because they are not getting paid. Which I think is a bummer because people should enjoy the fact that HIVE is free to use and anyone can post regardless of their race, creed, socio economic status, gender, sexual orientation, and the list goes on. HIVE has a lot of great things about it outside of the reward pool.
All true. As to police, I started training my kids to use firearms when they were three. We lived on a gated compound innawoods where I homeschooled them, and if someone bad came to do bad things the police weren't going to stop them. We would have to do it. We were always ready, but there's not often bad guys doing bad things innawoods, so thankfully everything turned out ok. Maybe I'd feel differently If I'd have been raised in a city.
They really need to this. We can't understand what is on someone else mind unless the BLURT the truth😄
Most of them came from Hive, and left because they were taxed at 100% of their earnings. Because this is possible on Hive, and they know it causes people to leave - as Yintercept just posted he is leaving Hive because of that today - they advertise the DV free Blurt here.
That is my understanding from talking to them. Also, they're mad at being taxed excessively, so they are striking back with spam (the spammers) because they can't effectively tax whales back.
It looks like intercept thinks he is being downvoted for cross posting on Blurt and Steem?
Edit - I just read his post again and don't understand why he is being downvoted 😅
I don’t have a strong opinion on cross posting but it is copy pasting on multiple platforms so I can see why that is an issue.
I’m not sure it’s a tax because the reward pool is a shared resource vs revenue.
Shared resources are limited so they are allocated where as revenue is theoretically unlimited and purely earned.
The reward pool comes from inflation. Inflation happens at the expense of stakeholders.
It makes sense larger stakeholders are more sensitive about how the reward pool is allocated.
I think if getting downvoted will make someone want to leave that means they are mostly here for the rewards which is kind of a bummer.
I think downvoting was intended to be innocuous but only people with large stake are incentivized to use it.
I actually agree. I have spoken with Dan, the genius who created the platform. He had a misunderstanding of what DV's are. He thought a downvote was the opposite of an upvote, and didn't conceive of the incentives that would prevent the platform from growing if downvotes enabled that growth to be suppressed. It is my understanding that they are taxes that explains why this has happened.
Let's compare another industry to Hive. There are creators posting on Hive, and there are auto manufacturers making trucks. Toyota makes great trucks, but has to break into a market Ford dominates. When Toyota makes a sale, that's the same thing as a new user getting an upvote on Hive. People that like Toyota trucks buy them, and people that don't like them don't buy them. The opposite of a sale is no sale. It's the same thing on Hive. People that like your post upvote it, and people that don't like it don't upvote it. Except for taxes. Imagine what happens to Ford and Toyota when they can tax each other to the limit of their stake. Ford is an established manufacturer, and has a lot of stake. Toyota is the new kid on the block and has only ambition and talent in their pockets. Ford will eliminate Toyota from the market if it has the power to tax Toyota 100% of their profits, and it doesn't matter how awesome and popular their trucks are. That's what happens on Hive too.
Every sale Toyota makes takes money out of Ford's mouth. In terms of Hive, upvotes that go to new users don't go to established authors. So, Ford has a financial incentive to prevent Toyota from profiting from truck sales. IRL if Ford has government contracts to make trucks for the military, then Ford taxing Toyota 100% of their profits provides more money to the government to pay Ford to make trucks for the military.
That's exactly what downvotes on smaller accounts do on Hive. Not only do the downvotes prevent inflation from going to new users instead of whales, returning the rewards to the rewards pool enables the whales to get them, because they capture 90% of rewards. The opposite of an upvote is no vote. A DV isn't the opposite of an upvote, it's a tax that removes someone else's upvote and the creators income. If Ford had this power IRL Toyota would never have sold any trucks and ISIS would be driving Fords.
Toyota could have made fidget spinners or phones, but they liked trucks, so they went into the truck business. People could make Christmas wreaths, but they like posting blogs, so they come to Hive. If Hive enables them to get paid for it, and other platforms like X do not, then Hive will take over social media completely and crappy censorious platforms that take all the value bloggers create will die out. Why hasn't that happened? Because Ford taxed Toyota 100% of their profits, and Hive wasn't better than X, Meta, or Reddit. Because being taxed 100% of your rewards is unfair, people didn't just leave, they ragequit and complained to everyone they could that they'd been censored and all their rewards were stolen by whales. That makes Hive look really bad in the market for new Hive users. That's why onboarding never again repeated the influx of users that came after April 2017. That's why people that have been traumatized get so crazy about being downvoted.
This platform was once #3 on coinmarketcap (before the fork). It's now <400. This happened while the social media industry became the largest sector of global financial markets, more valuable than mining, manufacturing, and transportation. Hive could have captured all that growth - all that money - but instead taxed it's value out of existence, so the whales could maintain control of Hive governance and maintain their maximum ROI.
That's just the same thing as Ford being sensitive to how truck sales are allocated when Ford is granted government contracts to provide trucks to the military. Toyota providing trucks to the military is bad for Ford. Many creators being rewarded for content on Hive reduces the portion of the inflation the whales receive. The more lesser staked users that are flagged off the platform, the more of the inflation the whales get. This is why a growing user base increases decentralization of stake, and a shrinking user base increases centralization. What is best for the platform isn't what is best for whales, either as a group or individually, because cash is king, not risky growth and capital gains if things don't go sideways. And they are at high risk of going sideways, as Sun capturing Steem showed. The very plutocratic stake weighting mechanism that enables the whales to maintain control of governance is the greatest threat to their continued governance, because all it takes is more money than they have to capture total control of governance. If Hive starts growing as a plutocracy, and becomes a valuable token rising in price, a real IRL megamouth shark will gobble up our little whales like a snack and turn Hive into their personal property.
This can be solved, but Hive would first need to not be a plutocracy that any passing megamouth shark that can gobble up the little whales on Hive could buy total control of and eliminate the present oligarchy. The whales have to be willing to lose control of governance in order to enable Hive to dominate the social media industry. Instead of taxing users 100% of all their rewards and driving them from the platform to keep their control of governance, they have to encourage new users to stay on the platform, and brag about how happy they are to be creating content on Hive. They have to risk a lot to profit a lot. If they don't Hive will continue to decrease in value, until it follows Golos into the void.
@valued-customer
🤷♂️
When he says 'my own articles' he means articles he authored for the community he is founding, that all rewards on go to that community. Look down two paragraphs and you'll see where he states that. He isn't self voting and getting the author rewards. He is authoring posts for a community that is getting all the rewards for the post, and all he has to support the fledgling community is his stake.
He says he doesn't care, but in his last post he talks about how fearful he is of getting DV'd. He repeats it over and over, and talks about how many posts he has not published, and his constant worry over how to censor himself so that he won't get DV'd.
The people we meet all have trauma they deal with in different ways, and when we discover the particular triggers people that haven't dealt with that trauma successfully, we can quickly drive them to act in unreasonable ways.
His fear about being DV'd has caused him to speak irrationally, because he isn't self voting and rewarding himself, but rewarding the community he is trying to support with his stake by upvoting the communities' posts. He just happens to be the author of those posts RN, because he's creating the community.
If I posted for TradFi from the community account and then upvoted myself from my main then people would complain about it and I might get downvoted too.
That's why I did not go that route for my community.
I mean he posts to Blurt and Steem too. Seems like he has done quite a few things that get people downvoted around here.
Edit - I think you are making a lot of false assumptions about a lot of things. That is my opinion and we may have to agree to disagree on what you think I am doing or what people think my goals are.
I am trying harder to leave comments these days as an olive branch to the small accounts that want me to do this. I think people trying to force other people to leave comments via social pressure is a light scam. Downvoting should be used to allocate the reward pool better, but downvoting at all is a freakshow right now. There few small accounts that have the "balls" to do it and these small accounts I am tracking and they will have my respect even if we do not agree on everything.
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@hurtlocker/re-taskmaster4450-t8giyb
It is certainly possible. But if you can convince me of it, I will be happy to learn I have been wrong and change my mind to become right. It is only in discussions with people we do not perfectly agree with that we can benefit from their better understanding in that way. If you do think I am wrong, I beseech you to not leave me in that untenable condition, but to avail me of reason that I might join you in becoming right, so that I do not err, perhaps even to do people harm against my will, in my mistaken understanding.
I have undertaken to not make any untoward assumptions about your motivations, and indeed have come to your considerable defense in discussions with KillerG. But I have undertaken to discuss with Blurt users at length, just as I am with you, and you will note I am not on Blurt, nor do I advertise Blurt. I bear none ill will, and just like you, feel all free speech platforms can work together to make all of them stronger in a better world. That is not a commonly expressed sentiment of Blurt users, many of whom continue to bear ill will towards Hive and whomever did them the harm they feel they have been done. They ubiquitously IME consider DV's theft, and Khrom has posted on Hive incontrovertible mathematical proof that DV's inevitably centralize stake. Despite the fire in his belly on that issue, and in conversation with me, his post is not lacking in good comity, and because of that I did reblog it here.
[edit: I think for the reasons I have pointed out, and you have seen demonstrated, downvoting is likely to always be a shitshow, because people understand taxation is theft, and hate it.]
As I have pointed out downvoting does indeed reallocate the rewards pool, and always towards fatter wallets. Now, when DV's don't have as their purpose reallocation, but rather prevention of circle jerks, bot abuse, abusive self voting, and plagiarism I absolutely agree - and always have - that preventing mischievous and rapine avarice with DV's is entirely appropriate. I hope I have not once in our conversations expressed that I consider whales that do not do those things bad, evil, or greedy. Nor have I sought to malign anyone for being prudent and well managing their stake. I agree above that Dan did not consider DV's as bad or theft, but when the use of DV's to drive literal hordes of new users off the platform began, he quickly gave up on the platform and went onto build others. I didn't have opportunity to discuss those events with him, or his reasons for doing that. But it is likely that he saw that DV's were having impacts he had not foreseen and because governance was in place and benefiting from those unforeseen effects, and he was oath bound to not undertake governance with his ninjamined stake (the Founder's stake he and Ned promised the OG miners was solely to be used for development), he shied away from humbly recognizing he had made errors and facing the music to rectify them. Ned eventually did worse, by selling the Founder's stake to Sun and moving on.
I don't think that makes either of them evil, nor do I ascribe malicious intentions to them - although they certainly are just as human as you and I, and fall short of our aspirations to be blameless - nor do I think whales doing what they think is wisest and best for their personal stake they alone have responsibility for managing well are evil (unless they do practice deception and maliciously profit from harming others by abusing their stake, or worse commit criminal fraud, as has been alleged by credible witnesses). All my interactions with Valueplan principals are on chain, and despite the extraordinary defensiveness of one of them who continually accused me of making false allegations, I very carefully avoided doing so and did my very best to phrase my confrontations with them just as I have here, of credible allegations from claimed eyewitnesses. It is that desperate defensiveness I found most convincing of fraud, and am not surprised to have recently seen again accusations of fraud surfacing from their ongoing operations managing DHF funds. But that is not proof, and to my best recollection I did not then, nor have since, stated there was any proof, or that they or anyone was guilty of fraud. The witnesses alone can do that based on their direct knowledge. The VP principals flatly refusing to provide proof they did not commit or enable others to commit fraud by providing receipts is only evidence, not proof.
But it is very convincing evidence Valueplan principals are deliberately enabling theft by fraud, and proof that Hive is failing in it's fiduciary duty to ensure no theft of DHF funds is occurring by failing to demand GAAP from DHF grant recipients.
Anyway, this comment begins only to reveal my incapacity to demonstrate that brevity is the soul of wit, and I hope I have successfully lobbied for you to show me that I am wrong, and not do me the injury of leaving in that condition.
Looks like this is the norm I guess 😅
Blurt freakshow at it again.
@bpcvoter4 will you at least talk instead of being crazy?
I am not sure how this is helping anyone. I literally do not care about the HIVE Blurt feud. I don't even really care about cross posting.
A lot of people do care about cross posting and when Blurt people act this way you are the one's putting me in a position where I could never advocate for cross posting.
I am stepping away. @bpcvoter4 I am reasonable. Me expecting people to talk to me like a normal person on social media should be considered reasonable.
Don’t feed these trolls. They are ranting lunatics. Mute and ignore is best way to deal with these bad intentioned trolls.
!LADY
!BBH
!ALIVE
!PIZZA
Yea I am trying to view the experience as a new user vs a user who has been here a long time. I am not sure the best path forward but if I mute on peakd their activity no longer shows up.
Might make sense to have a list of most muted users or something so new users know who to mute 🤷♂
This is a great idea. It's something this platform has never had, and has always needed. When users first log into their accounts, their homepage could have some useful articles about what witnesses are, how witness votes work, what proposals are and how the DHF works, even more in depth articles about vests, inflation, the rewards pool, curation, and up and down votes, amongst other things. Peakd does a little of this now, but it could be greatly expanded to good effect IMHO.
Many people here have little or no understanding of some of these aspects of Hive, and I think providing such articles (which could be links to posts widely acclaimed as easy to understand and accurate information. There are posts that have been published on all the above topics over the years, but the search functions poorly and they are very hard to find - especially if you don't know what you're looking for).
A few pointers regarding Hive etiquette would really help you guys countering abuse. Examples of spam, scams, and plagiarism would make your jobs a lot easier, or at least cut down on the protestations of innocence when bad actors are DV'd for the bad acts.
Yea one thing I like about HIVE is we can basically create our own onboarding experience. Anyone can do it and should be encouraged to also if they are passionate about doing it for the right reasons.
I don't really like paid onboarding through the DHF or Reward Pool though. It obscures if people are doing it for the right reasons.
I think this would be a really good idea. I think a lot of new users that start to get greedy think they are trying something new when they try to farm the reward pool and don't really realize that people here have seen every trick in the book by now.