I don’t really understand why I need to explain (as I’ve tried to acid) why people get more upset about downvotes. It feels more like an attack and it’s a very strong reminder of how little power smaller stake holders have. It’s also scary to think that all your rewards can be erased by a single person when you worked so hard to gather support.
As for autovotes, I don't see them as much of a problem when they aren't excessive, as some of them are. Same way I feel about downvotes.
I’m very appreciative to all the people who help keep this place running. I haven’t demonized anyone here. I just think that there is a better solution than just “people can do what they want with their stake”.
Downvotes came about as a solution to people abusing that kind of mentality, so we swayed far in one direction and now we are swaying in the other. There is probably some way to make this much more comfortable and fair. At the very least I want just want to encourage more communication and understanding when people are unhappy about it.
That's not what we're saying, if excessive downvotes are used on content others deem worthy of some rewards people should step in and counter it, even if it means a cost on their ROI. I've seen that happen as well and I've taken part in it, especially on retaliative downvotes and personal ones due to disagreement of something other than rewards. I also understand that big downvotes can cause a lot of drama and controversy and I'm personally more for smaller ones that disincentivize autovoting and overrewarding both the author and curators but the sad part is that most of these content creators turn against Hive and most things they've said in the past faster than I can make my mind if I want to step in and counter some of those downvotes. You'd think that after years of being rewarded it would take a while for them to accept that some big downvotes are occuring but it's not that bad as each and every post isn't that important to get rewarded considering they've been rewarded for hundreds of not thousands of posts before, but I guess it's all about the rewards so they don't have the patience to wait it out even a week to see what would happen if they just ignored it and moved on with their posting. Instead they instantly turn against Hive and how things work here and go all drama and "how hive will fail", "i'm going to tell everyone how bad Hive is", "censorship" and stupid shit like that. It's embarrassing. So yes, I'd rather add my downvotes on top of such authors than attempt to help adjust some of their rewards upwards after such childish actions.
This is the best I've seen you say it.
Childish actions. Yeah. They are sometimes. 90% of adults are still children, us included I think 😛
I totally agree with everything you say here man. And I almost feel bad pulling you in to have this debate again. I know you deal with a lot of bullshit and bust your ass for this chain. I only hope you can understand where they are coming from when they get angry and you can stay calm and sympathetic yourself. It's a lot to ask but great power requires great responsibility and all that.
If all the downvotes were always this reasonable and patient about these disagreements i doubt this would be an issue. When I see the 100% downvotes that come in a few minutes before payout I can only feel it's a malicious move and that's one of the things that prompted me to write about this. That and the fact that eventually I want to see more of an effort to create mechanisms to decentralize influence a little bit more than where it is already.
I'm already really impressed with the progress we've made up until now and you were right a few times when I was wrong (I'll always remember I fought you on 50/50 curation and it ended up having a positive effect)
Thanks for responding and I feel like I understand where you are coming from a better now. I really feel much better after reading that. I wish the downvoted could feel that but I think their suspicion of larger stakeholders doesn't allow them to. Oh well.
You probably mean in the last day as a few minutes before payout they would have no effect. I don't agree with downvoting on the very last day but then again not too early either as then they love calling it censorship from trending or whatever. Truth is downvotes aren't incentivized at all and only come with an unending amount of drama if you attempt to explain them and other retaliation and bad things so it's not like you sit there waiting for the best time to strike, more like you take some time to find those posts you feel could use less rewards and happen upon an author once a week or once a month so you just hit whatever overrewarded posts they may have then. There may be people who place them on autodownvotes at a certain time which isn't that bad either unless someone beats you to it and you end up taking too much. There's been a few times I've downvoted certain posts and another downvote landed on it after turning the rewards to 0 so I've had to unvote but it's hard to notice these things so we could use better tools for it. There's been some talks about incentivizing downvotes with some sort of rewards but that's going to be difficult as receivers of downvotes will look for any reason to call them foul, even now they like to say it's so you get more curation or post rewards even though they're spread literally with the whole platform and maybe at max make a 0.001 hive difference on your returns.
Let's see if some people come up with some better solutions, I've been a proponent of people experimenting with this on l2 but not too impressed with most l2 tokens to date. Most seem like moneygrabs where you have to buy in or the owners receive a ridiculous share early on.. as if they didn't learn anything from Steemit...
I definitely jumped the gun when I first looked into the social side of Hive. I saw someone fighting for free speech against the "oligarchy", I was on it! After learning more, I understand now that this was a knee-jerk reaction. I've found all kinds of efforts on here that I didn't realize existed and they are run by the "oligarchy." I will be ending my proxy and redistributing my votes based on who is doing the most for Hive as I did originally before jumping on a proxy.
A lot of people just don’t know what they are doing or how any of this stuff works. I was like that for two years. I think There are even second layers that are just thinking “it’s easy, why not?” I mean I almost considered it for cross culture but I don’t have the time or energy to manage that and I think most of my team doesn’t have the particular skills or know how for it.
Also in general, There is a lot of mistrust for large stakeholders and people feel like it’s so hard to get into certain peoples good graces. DPoS is a complicated power dynamic. It’s sometimes difficult for poor and rich people to be friends in society. It’s even harder when the rich people can give you a piece of the inflation with a vote. All kinds of strangeness. I’m not complaining. I love this place. But it’s new and imperfect. We are still figuring it out.
Sure but many of these have been around for years, it's not like I'm judging newcomers for overreacting to downvotes. Not that many get downvoted either, it's a very tiny percentage but they are loud as fuck for obvious reasons.