This week in my #weekend-engagement topics week 89 I posed a few reasonably challenging topics for people to select from with one in particular seeming a rather difficult one to address or answer...but I don't think so. The question is below and in this post I give my response.
If you could save only one child from a burning house who would you choose to save and why? They are six-year-old twins, a boy and girl and the one you do not save will die. What is the logic behind your choice and possible implications moving forward.
If you've had any experience with burning houses you'll know there is very little time to think and act. With so many highly flammable things inside the home a house ignites quickly and fire takes hold in a very short time.
One doesn't have a lot of time to make decisions...and this is why I have a fire evacuation plan (which is discussed and practiced monthly) in my household, fire extinguishers, fire blankets and a go-bag with a few essential items within which can be grabbed and taken if rapid evacuation is required. (Documents, money, credit cards, car keys, contact details and so on.)
A modern house is full of plastics and other flammable items: Paints and lacquers, fabrics, flooring, bench tops, furniture, utensils and so on. These things ignite and burn very rapidly. The intense heat, choking smoke and fumes means one can't see well or breathe safely meaning time is of the essence and so...there's not much time to think.
If you leave your thinking and planning to the moment this emergency situation occurs it's almost certainly not going to end well. So, be prepared...You know, like the first responders are prepared for when they arrive at the scene of an incident so they can approach the situation calmly and with professional efficiency...and save lives.
But back to the hypothetical situation.
The scenario
The house across the street is burning and the mother of two kids is out the front screaming that her twin boy and girl, just six years old and sleeping in different rooms, are still inside. The fire service has been called but they are not there yet however the fire has firmly taken hold and flames are shooting through the roof.
For the purpose of this post I'm eliminating any practical precautions and actions I'd take to mitigate the risk to myself as I enter the house and am just focusing on the save the children part.
So, here's who I save and the thought process behind the decision.
My decision and action
Which one do I save? Well, for me the decision is very easy...Which ever child I came across first.
Keep in mind I'm not working around a known situation here but let's just assume I enter and come across child one, cowering in fear within the bedroom. I pick the child up, shield them the best I can, and exit the house carrying the child to safety.
At that point a secondary decision needs to be made based on the assessment of the fire-conditions I've just experienced inside the house, what I learned about the layout and condition of the house itself and how likely it is I would be able to make it back in and out again safely. Of course, in this case I would almost certainly go back in and make an attempt...but that's a different post. For this post...well, the job's done as such.
The first one I came across
For me this isn't a decision about saving the boy or girl as both are equally valuable; To think otherwise is ludicrous. It's not a gender-decision, it's a logical one.
It's not a decision on who would live the best life if they survive, who was the best or smartest and certainly their gender isn't a factor...It's a practical decision based on saving as many lives as one can. Situations like this are hostile, extremely hot and it's impossible to breathe as the fire consumes the available oxygen and the burning plastics release toxins, fumes and smoke. Seconds count and scooping up one child then looking for the other is likely to cost all three lives. Scooping up one child and removing them to safety delivers a result.
The other consideration is that there is no assurances that the second child is still alive, or reachable in the conditions the house is in. If I had a live child in my arms then that one deserves to exfil to safety and to have a chance at life.
Moving forward
I believe, in the scenario I describe above, I'd face a lifelong battle with my decision. I'd replay the moment, the thought-process and decision to go back in or not and I'd blame myself for not saving the other child of course.
Post-traumatic stress disorder is a terrible weight to carry and almost impossible to eradicate. It sits within a person and claws at their mind from the inside, it tears a person apart internally, changes behaviours and is so deeply ingrained it becomes a part of the afflicted individual. It can be tempered somewhat, the symptoms alleviated, however there is no known cure. I believe a situation like this would leave a mark upon a person; Guilt and shame? Probably.
People do difficult things like this every day; first responders, medical staff, soldiers and civilians alike are faced with choices that could result in potential loss of life.
The sad thing is the latter group above, civilians, are largely unprepared to make those choices and that exacerbates the potential for disaster.
These decisions are rarely easy to make however must be made because being slow to act decreases the percentage of a successful rescue or result. The sad part is, being a little prepared doesn't cost much, if anything, and is quite easily undertaken...but people are lazy, ignorant, arrogant, falsely hopeful or whatever nutbaggery they use to justify their lack of preparedness. I just call them irresponsible and lazy.
So, that's about it for me in respect of this topic; It's a rather simple decision. Sure, I'd approach it with the expectation and hope of saving both children however I also understand scenarios like this one, and the tough decisions that often need to be made, reasonably well. Taking one child to safety saves one child and, for me, that one would be the first one I came across. I'd deal with the second if and when I could.
If you have some different thoughts feel free to click the link above to the announcement post and follow the guidelines for entry and do a post about it. Alternatively, comment here if you like. Your opinion may differ from mine, but you're still entitled to share it.
Design and create your ideal life, don't live it by default - Tomorrow isn't promised so be humble and kind
The image is my own
So true!
Sometimes it feel more than guilty not being able to do the equal favour to someone affected and choosing one out of multiple is always a dilemma human being battle with.
Btw, it was a thought-provoking post my friend. Made my brain exercise for a while, which is quite uncommon these days.
Thanks for taking a read and commenting. I think it's a terrible choice to have to make but people are required to make tough decisions every day right?
Yeah, taking decisions on our everyday life is something we struggle with constantly; more or less.
Yet, we live our life to the fullest, from our own perspective.
Keep up the good work mate 💯
Just as I go to bed I see this. I knew you would choose that option. I would too, you simply don't have a choice if you want to make it out yourself. I (stupidly) ran into a burning flat about 15 years ago. At least I attempted to, I never made it. I mean. It was a flat on the second floor of a four floor tenement in Glasgow. A tenement just being a block of flats. The smoke was so thick that I barely made it to the door of the flat in question. Despite me holding my breath the problem was that I could not see because the smoke was so thick and acrid it stung my eyes so badly. It was literally like walking in the dark. And then you think you can sneak a breath through your sleeve but you can't, it just makes you choke. I had to turn back thinking this isn't how it's meant to be??
Fortunately the fire brigade came quickly and got the guy who was inside, out. The same guy who started it because he was an attention seeking arse.
So I know in those cases despite the best will in the world you don't have the option of choosing. If you can get one, get one and get out.
Ps, the firefighter who was speaking to me outside laughed and called me a dick. I couldn't agree with him more
I like your last line a lot; the fireman was right. The reality is that most who go into a situation like that without training and BA (breathing apparatus) dies. Simple fact. I alluded to it being a hostile environment and it is...Breathing super-heated air (that probably has no oxygen in it anyway) is never going to go well.
My question was more about the moral aspect and I'll be honest and say I was surprised how many people weighed it up from a gender perspective. That surprised me.
Anyway, my apology for delaying your sleep bro. 😀
Damn you sleep destroyer!
There were some interesting answers. The guy who wanted to change his wife was entertaining!
Oh jeez man, I read that post and was like 😦
Maybe the language barrier caused an issue but...Nah, I don't think so.
I thought it might be that at first then it just got worse and I was like, ouch!
Ouch indeed.
This is one of the most important statements I've read on Hive and being prepared, as you mention, is not that hard to do or even expensive. It's not like the "preppers" on tv, although I applaud them for their self reliance and dedication to their own safety.
Not only are civilians not prepared to make decisions like above, they are woefully unprepared for the weight of those decisions in the future. PTSD does not just affect military and cops, it can get it's claws into anyone for some things that may even seem random or mundane to some. It is about the impact on the individual and their is NO SHAME in seeking help.
Grabbing the first child I came across is what I alluded to in my post and as difficult as that might seem to some, it is the only way to absolutely ensure at least one of them lives. Fire waits on no man!
Excellent post, friend!
I'm not about to disagree with any of what you say and there's not much to add I guess.
I said to someone last night that you and I think alike and are alike; that's clear to see. This, in reference to your post and my own on this topic, which that person had not read yet, and still probably hasn't...but will.
Logic is difficult argue with mostly, and for those who are somewhat prepared for crisis and emergencies, it comes more easily. This is why I prepare myself, focus on it and put into practice what I know in trial-runs.
Thanks for reading.
Seriously, that is one of the best compliments I've received in a long, long time! I hope you know I hold you in high esteem and you have my respect, which is difficult to earn lololol
Thank you in return.
One of the coolest things I find about hive is the relationships, from across the world, with people who I'd never usually meet. It's one of the reasons I'm still around. In case you're wondering who I was speaking to it was @andrastia. She's going to need some help determining a handgun for personal/home defence soon and I told her you'd be a good person to check in with although there's others, such as @jacobtothe.
Anyway, I think she'll post about it at some point.
What's the best personal/home defense handgun? Easier asked than answered. As a former cell phone salesman from back when Android was new and Blackberries dominated business markets, I would revert to the style of questions I would ask people then.
What experience and training do you have, and what specific problems do you want to solve? Here, the scenario already eliminates rifles and shotguns, but what do you know and what do you not know? Honestly assess your situation.
What is your budget, especially after taking into account extra accessories? Yes, I sold a lot of bluetooth earpieces and belt pouches. Similarly, a gun purchase likely also needs a cleaning kit, holster, ammunition, and potentially some training courses. The price of the gun is a significant portion of the total expenditure, but nowhere near the entirety.
Specific to guns, are we talking open carry, concealed carry on your body, or carry in a purse or backpack? Is it something that will live in your bedside stand? How much time and money are you really willing to devote to practice?
Do you live with other people? Does the gun need to be secured so children or a mentally-unstable family member cannot readily access it? Personal anecdote: I once lived in an apartment where I was playing water gun games with some neighbor kids, and one neighbor's toddler waddled out with daddy's revolver. No harm was done, but words were had later.
As for specific models, sure, I could say, "Just buy a Glock 19." It's to handguns what the Honda Accord is to sedans: boring, reliable, kinda ugly. Good enough for most, not necessarily ideal for everybody. Or I could say, "Just get a Smith & Wesson K-frame in .357 Magnum." It's more the Chevy truck equivalent. Old roots, reliable, plenty for most situations. It's also not for everyone, though. My personal interest is in weird stuff. New experimental designs. Old models that got discontinued when I was still in diapers. Oddball calibers. Foreign guns where even Brownells or Numrich doesn't have ready access to spare parts. Think a Renault or Saab car equivalent in the 2022 America market. I would advise against those very strongly for the first-time buyer, but circumstances may require thinking outside the box, too.
Legal restrictions play a huge role in what models and calibers may be available even within the US coughCALIFORNIA&NEWJERSEYSUCKcough and I wouldn't even know where to begin advising someone who lives outside the US.
All good stuff indeed. It will come in handy when the young lady posts and asks for some insight. If you don't see it I'll tag you in the comments.
Well on the bright side with most house layouts the bedrooms tend to be clustered so as long as they're sleeping in different bedrooms (and one isn't in a master bedroom or lounge room or games room or something inconveniently on the furthest opposite end of the house) you should theoretically be able to find one in one room and find one in a neighbouring room.
Now having said that you do end up with houses like mine that are stupid layouts because they started out as one type of house and then haphazard diy extensions happened.
Failing that, unless they're unconscious or otherwise crippled, I'd probably be inclined to throw a chair or something through the window, chuck the kid out after it and tell them to go out the front to mum (and make sure they go while taking a quick breath of fresh air, this is also assuming that I can see to the front and there isn't a fence/gate in the way) and then duck back in to go and find the other one.
Afterwards (having either found the second child or having had to bail out or die and probably having made my lung issues significantly worse because smoke inhalation) I would probably do all the frantic panicking I put off at the time XD
This reminds me, I should probably actually clear out the stuff blocking the side door (weird layout of our house means all bedrooms are conveniently right next to an external door) and see if the kids remember the fire plan (we haven't discussed it in depth for a while).
I'm guessing this was a hard question because you mentioned genders so people hyperfocused on that? :)
If this post does nothing else except get you to think about fire evacuation and clearing of halls and doorways then I'm happy!
And yeah, people focused on the gender thing which is why I threw it in there along with the kids being the same age. I wanted to see if people would make it a gender thing and many did.
Anyway, let's hope this situation ever happens to us, although it's inevitable it'll happen I guess, to someone.
There is an old philosophical paradox. Suppose a donkey is equidistant between two piles of hay of equal size and freshness. How can the donkey choose which to eat? The philosopher would argue the donkey must starve, but we know one will be chosen at random to satisfy the want in reality.
Assuming the neighbor's house is a tract home, perhaps identical to yours in floorplan, it might be fairly easy to reach a bedroom and rescue a child even in the chaos of a fire. Even so, it's a matter of who you find first, not some philosophical debate over who has more value.
I can't agree with you more...Sound thinking, logical and spoken by someone who would not have to stand out side pondering which gender is best to save, who might have more value or whatever. Get in, pick up kid and get out. Maybe then take a moment to assess if going back in is viable (which it probably won't be). Boomy mentioned trying to get into a burning apartment in another comment to this post...Says it all really.
Thanks for your comment which is, as always, measured and valuable.
Quite. The viability of even making the attempt would depend on the level of smoke and flames. To state the obvious, fire is dangerous. Making yourself another casualty helps no one. As with so many things from medicine to guns to cars to courthouses, TV really skews the public perception of the possible and practical.
Indeed, I could write a post (and may) about that to be honest; the way people's perception is formed from the rubbish they see on TV and movies. It's laughable really...but is no laughing matter at the same time.
You have a point, a strong one I must say. And the notion about philosophers, it made me 😂
It's easy to laugh at the early philosophers, but their first forays into trying to understand the rules of how the world works laid the groundwork for all of modern mathematics, science and technology. Check out the History of Philosophy (Without Any Gaps) if you want a good overview of the topic. Giraffes are surprisingly relevant for illustrating concepts...
Thank you for the reference.
And the example of giraffe, it's just perfect 🤣
You have given the same answer that had occurred to me, save the first child I found.
Another form of election does not make sense.
And you've made a great statement about the importance of preparing for these events.
Thank you so much for sharing it.
It seems fairly logical although it is a difficult question to answer as one doesn't know all the perametera. I guess that's why I broke it down to the most simple.
Find kid, remove kid, assess if it's safe to go for the second and act accordingly.
Thanks for your comment.
Your welcome.
I think it is the healthiest way of thinking, the one you have raised. Because it is a way free of preferences or prejudices.
Going for the simplest is what can help solve complex problems.
This question that you have answered will always be complex, due to the fact of having to "choose", that should not exist, it should always be possible to save both of them.
In an ideal world both would be saved. In the real world it's not always possible. Thanks for your reply.
In a situation like the one presented there is not much time to think and if we use elementary logic the correct answer is the one you propose. Before the fire burning you must react in a quick way. In this opportunity you really raised many uncomfortable issues but that make us think and so far the publications that I have read are excellent each one exposes his point of view and as you raised in this weekly proposal, we get out of the comfort zone to face these challenges. Greetings.
This would be a very tough decision and I'm glad I don't have to make it for real; people do have to though.
Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it.
That is right, it's not even deciding which one to save but whoever it is that you find first.
This is what most of us lack. We don't even have fire extinguishers in the house. Not that we are expecting things to happen but one can never know.
No one expects it to happen...But it does happen and so people should expect it and be ready. That's what prepping is about.
Yes, I myself needed to hear this so thank you. Preparation is really a must.
It's a message that, if it got through to everyone, would save a lot of heartache. It's not just about house fires but any and all risks humans face on a day to day basis. There are many that can be prepared for.
That is so true, because whether we like it or not, we are faced with risky situations and or circumstances. This is quite an eye opener really. Thank you :)
The problem, of course, is that there is only one correct answer; but that there is makes the question all that much more abhorrent. If you’ve ever read Sophie’s Choice by John Fowles, you’d probably feel ill at the mention of choosing one life over another. (I won’t add a spoiler by telling you what the outcome of her choice was, but she’s forced to choose which of her children to save from the clutches of the gas chamber).
Obviously, it is “this” question that you’ve posed that spun one of the most horrendously fascinating novels of all time. So as reasonable people, do we immediately arrive at the only possible solution - the answer must be that we do, so to save myself angst (especially on the weekend), I could never choose this option since my response would most likely be identical to everyone else’s (despite the fact that it’s a damn good question anyway)
Having to make a choice of this nature is a difficult one in any situation however I guess it's made many times each year by many. Life is hard at times and choices need to be made. Your reference to that book is a good one too. Tragic.
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.
❤️💕🤗
Ah... this was simply brilliant. In that I mean, you answered the question so easily that it made it seem not that difficult again0! However, I might have a... well call it a sort of different point of view of you will:
You know when being faced with such a hard decision, it seems most logical for someone to be inclined to choose the first child! Because I most certainly thought that that way at first. But by the vagueness or lack of details in the question, I thought perhaps we should answer the question as plainly and directly as it is was written.
I guess what I mean to say is that: in my mind's eye, I didn't really want to mock up a full scenario such as the one you mentioned with the burning house and helpless mother screaming - No.
What I imagined was simply being in that situation where you are standing in front of these two children together in that burning house and you have to choose either one fast before it's too late.
Take for example:
You're standing upstairs in that burning house, right in front of the twins, as one of them is hanging on to a broken board in the verge of collapsing and the other is stuck under a fallen shelf or something.
Just an example
I don't know if you get my analogy there but yeah! That type of brutal situation makes your decision a whole lot harder! Because you no longer have the comfort or advantage of choosing the first child but instead you have a much tougher decision to make – choosing one right in front of you!
Lol, i'm not sure if that makes any sense because I might just be overthinking the whole thing a little too much...😅
But regardless, I very much liked your take to the Option.
Oh and before I go, I must mention that the thing you said about not making a decision because of their Gender makes a lot of sense!
To be honest, if you asked me, I'll say it's a bit ludicrous.
Ahh ..I just wish I expanded a bit more about it on my post instead of using only one word - Genderism.
If you're standing in a burning house there's little time to think...In fact, if you read the @meesterboom comment in this post you'll understand that just getting into the house is difficult, and often impossible. So, yeah, I understand the question wasn't that specific and that's ok, everyone answered it as they chose, myself included. I'm a pragmatic man, a realist, and a prepared dude, so I answered it based on that.
Thanks for your comment. :)
Ohh... okay. I think I understand.
And no, thank you! It was my pleasure.
Super easy topics this Friday...And if you believe that you're bloody bonkers! 😄
Ha! You've got that right!
Good day, the lack of details also made me hesitate in the answer, it was always in my mind that the children were together and in the same place, space.
So it made me hesitate to pick one specifically but obviously the final answer was to grab the first one and then I come back for the second one.
Sometimes the lack of preparation for these events as @galenkp mentions is not so personal, a person prepared for natural disasters or any accident acquires what he has in his environment, that is to say there are nations that have by culture the education of this type and that seems excellent to me, sometimes we are ignorant because of the lack of preparation that comes from our culture. But it is not nice to label people for that either.
The interesting part of the question is with preparation or not, the answer is the same, save the first one you meet.
I liked your comment very much @zeraton
Ah... Why thank you!
I'm glad someone else felt that way as well. But you're right though! For better or worse, just save the first one you meet.
Rescue him and run !! 😊😍
Good evening.
Of all the questions you presented to us to choose from, I consider that this is precisely the most difficult to choose, because one must choose between life and death.
I chose your second option, I am an ordinary person with no preparation for this type of situation, as you said I took the challenge to answer and participate this weekend, with all due respect Mr. @galenkp you say that there are no good or bad answers and motivate people to participate, which I did.
But apparently my publication, to be more specific my answer was to your liking, because you left me a comment that I then deleted pressing me to respond.
I felt very invaded, I took it as a joke and nevertheless I responded because challenges always make us grow.
My response to his comment was exactly the same as the one you propose in this post. Save the first child I meet.
I apologize if it caused you any discomfort, but if I stop commenting I would stop being me.
Excellent. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you for replying and not deleting the comment 🤣
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My saving the children is exactly the same as yours, I would be racked with guilt that is for sure.
I am impressed without your precautions and preparations for fire, you never know what can happen, unfortunately.
I know what happens when emergencies arise and people are ill-prepared so I make sure I'm prepared, not unlike all your fire drills on the off-shore rig. I apply the same process and ethos to many aspects of life. One never knows what my pop up.
It's back to the little things, they make a massive difference in life.