Week 10
So this question has been delayed a bit, sorry for that but it was thanks to the Silver Gold Stackers discord chats that I found new inspiration for the next questions. Today marks week 10 of this initiative and I think it's a good moment to make a compilation post of the questions that have been asked including the links so that everyone who's interested can easily find back all the great resources that have been shared by the community members.
So after this week's payout, I will create a compilation post of the previous ten weeks because I've personally collected quite a few bookmarks with resources that I find very valuable. As there seem to be some new stackers on the horizon in the discord chat, I think this is the perfect time to ask some serious questions about how to avoid buying the fakes.
This weeks's question
I've already read some answers in comments before, reading blogs about it, people shared some Youtube video's and I believe our very own @bitcoinman sells some tools to help you check if you have the real deal.
I'm personally going to decide for myself which tool I should buy first to start covering myself from being scammed, partially based on the answers here as well as what I already read in the discord. Not everyone is a member there, so it's good to discuss that here too, let's help each other (read: us newbies, lol) out here :)
My personal answer
This week, being so new to collecting precious metals myself I can't give you the advice on how to check for real silver rounds or bars because I have been going the reputable dealer route and hoping this was enough for now until I have funds to collect myself some tools to quickly find the fakes whenever this happens in the future. Preferably before I bought it, of course.
When it comes to jewellery, I check for markings with a little magnifier I carry in my bag which I bought on one of my last flea market visits and it's been great so far to check if I was dealing with actual silver jewellery. I've also used it to see if I had any errors on circulated Euro coins or found things making me doubt if I had a precious or valuable items in hands which needed to be examined first before using it to pay for something. Best to check those coins first!
To avoid buying fakes, I decided to probably (until I have tools) not buy any silver coins on markets until I know a bit more so I don't have to deal with that. What I do look for instead is those circulated (or once circulated) coins that I find appealing to look at or those that just make me curious to find out more. These are small purchases though as I would never pay more than a few bucks, risking I'm way overpaying for something that I can't quickly research on the spot. I prefer doing that at home, without feeling pressured.
In the future
I hope to be able to at least check for these real silver rounds on these markets though and have one or more tools at hand to do at least a few basic checks as I can see it happening that there will be an item that I have been doubting to buy online and vote against due to shipping fees. If I have to pay a few euros more on the market but still be off cheaper than paying for high shipping fees, it's still a good purchase if I really want a piece. For now, I will just look and enjoy the shiny things they offer though.
Your answers
I hope a lot of the OG stackers chip in this week to answer and we can make this a resourceful post for the newbies or those interested in collecting. I've noticed (with myself too) that sometimes FOMO can kick in and you can get overly excited making a stupid decision, I don't wish that on any of my fellow stackers so throw your answers in the comment section, or if you like create a post yourself. If so, please drop the link in the comments below so I will not overlook it when going through the answers.
HSBI shares
I will pick at least 5 people who joined and send everyone a HSBI share, if you're lucky or if I loved a lot of answers, I may throw some more shares your way. Five is the minimum every round. I'm very excited reading your answers, pictures and videos are bonus points because they add to the fun!
Let's go!!!
Picture of the Hive silver round is my own..
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If someone is selling below spot price, red flag.
If someone is selling and discourages inspection in your hand, red flag.
Bring a magnet and see if it sticks, if it does, it's a fake.
Check the weight, if it feels too light, red flag.
Do a "ding" test for silver. It should "ding" like a bell, not "dunk" like dross.
I really need to get a magnet as it's just a super simple test to rule out stuff.. It's on my list :)
The ding like a bell, not dunk is a nice explanation haha thank you!
Your contribution is appreciated, thank you!
!PIZZA
It's really difficult and a lot trickier than one might think. Everybody talks about the magnet trick. For instance, a silver quarter and copper coins both move with the magnet test, so the magnet test alone is not conclusive.
With the "Ring" or "Ping" test, you can hear the difference, but you have to be in your game to hear it. The other is the "Drop" test. For silverware and jewelry, unfortunately, you've got to know your markings. An example would be a lion with its foot in the air which is the mark of sterling silver, or the word "sterling" or "ster", or the numbers "92.5" or "925", chances are it is silver. Buying silver requires knowledge of the years and marks (hallmarks) of silver.
Another way is using the Acid test. Watch the video.
For coins and silver bars, you would like to weigh it. Precious metals are typically weighed in troy ounces and pounds. You will need a high quality weighing scale. It does not weigh right, it will save you a lot of testing. Next, check the dimensions of the coin. You will need a digital caliper. The diameter and the thickness of the coins need to be checked. In coins, the weight, diameter, and thickness are usually good indicators of whether they are fake or not. Coins are defined by their size, weight, and dimensions. Then you can do a ping test. And you can use an earth magnet (the magnet will just slide slowly on the coin's surface if it's real silver). Last, you can use a "Sigma Metalytics" or a Precious Metal Verifier (which I do not have).
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I can totally imagine that I'd make a mistake with this test (especially the first times) if there are too many background noises. I can get highly distracted by that anyway so in certain not so quiet environments, or sellers distracting you, I think this is not one to be trusted alone (at least for me personally)
About the acid test, it's good to know, but I will pass on that one for now. I know I could trust my boyfriend with that having some experience in the field working with that type of stuff in his years in school but I would prefer not to have that at home right now. But I guess an honest dealer would also do this test for you, if not, it's probably a red flag :)
Thankfully, I have a high quality scale so at least I have something that I can check, together with the dimensions.
Thanks again for a great contribution !LADY
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If you stick to common coins, it's easier to avoid the fakes. Those have known weight and dimensions.
If the price is too good to be true, pass on it.
If the seller won't let you test it in front of them, pass on it.
You can get a cheap Neodymium magnet to carry with you on a keychain. If it sticks to it, it's fake. If it passes the magnet test, weigh it.
If the weight is off, pass on it.
If the weight is right, check dimensions online from a reputable online bullion dealer. Use digital calipers to measure the thickness and diameter. If they're off, pass on it. If they're right, it's likely genuine.
Jewelry is a little tougher. You can get a Kee gold tester for gold only. I'm not aware of anything cost-effective for silver other than filing some off and acid testing, but that destroys the piece. You can weed out some fakes with a Neodymium magnet and a Loupe to check for hallmarks, but it's not a guarantee. I once bought a 5oz coaster marked as Sterling and passed the scratch test, but it was very thick Sterling over top of ceramic.
!BBH
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Wow, this is such a great comment @bulliontools, thank you for this!
I bet I'm not the only one that is very happy reading these tips :)
Since a few weeks I carry a magnifier in my purse to at least check for markings on jewellery which has been helpful because sometimes it's hard to see them with the naked eye!
So far I haven't found a dealer in the area where I could walk in myself, but I'm sure when I do, if they won't let me test it the trust is gone immediately. That's a huge red flag for sure!
That magnet for the key chain is a good idea!
Again, thanks! !PIMP it
No problem! I hope you find lots of cool treasures and share pictures with us! 😁
!LUV
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That makes two of us!
!PIZZA
You must be killin' it out here!
@thisismylife just slapped you with 5.000 PIMP, @bulliontools.
You earned 5.000 PIMP for the strong hand.
They're getting a workout and slapped 2/3 possible people today.
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In my opinion, the best way to stay away from Fakes, is to buy Common U.S. Coinage now, and Exchanging it (Face Value for Face Value) for our New Product Line of "Circulating" Silver and Gold Coinage, on the other side of the U.S. Monetary Correction... Think of it as getting in on the Ground Floor with very little risk at all... Even if I'm totally wrong about the Reset, our Common U.S. Coinage will still have Legal Tender Status, long after "Physical" Fiat USD's go to Zero Spending Power...
Ok that would be valid for people in the US, I'm in Europe though so what is sold for certain amounts of money and has a certain good price with low shipping, often doesn't ship to Europe or for high fees.
That's another part of the journey that I'm personally facing because although there will be similar approaches for some things, this surely doesn't count for everything I guess.
Thanks for your contribution though, I appreciate it!
!PIZZA
The U.S. Mint does ship all over the World... I personally think the best deal would be the Boxes of $1 Native American Coins...
I have checked quite a few in the US, the fees are high if you're not (yet) buying more than one or two a piece. So for now that's not the best way to go for me. Luckily I found a few places to buy here as well, so I can save on shipping ...
I'm sure you'll be fine doing it your way, if you still have any doubts about our $1 U.S. Coins increasing 100 Fold in Spending Power... I even know how to do better than 100 Fold...
A strong neodymium magnet is always a good start. If it's fake it will stick strongly. Of course examining with a magnifier is a great move as well and checking the weight. Fakes rarely weigh the proper amount.
Great question!
!PIMP
Thanks! I was inspired by the discord chatter and this will help me decide on what I need to buy myself to check things rather than trusting the sellers ;)
I have the magnifier but that's the only thing, I have magnets just not very heavy ones, assuming these are not suitable :) The weight is something I can check luckily as we have a small very precise scale. Seems like I'm not doing that bad yet :)
Thanks for chipping in and being helpful answering the question!
!PIMP it
Neodymium's aren't necessarily heavy, just strong, they can be small and still do the job!
!PIZZA
Good to know, thanks!
You must be killin' it out here!
@thisismylife just slapped you with 1.000 PIMP, @thebighigg.
You earned 1.000 PIMP for the strong hand.
They're getting a workout and slapped 1/3 possible people today.
Read about some PIMP Shit or Look for the PIMP District
You must be killin' it out here!
@thebighigg just slapped you with 5.000 PIMP, @thisismylife.
You earned 5.000 PIMP for the strong hand.
They're getting a workout and slapped 2/2 possible people today.
Read about some PIMP Shit or Look for the PIMP District
So on the advice of several in discord I went with the following:
Get a strong neodymium magnet. Which I have got in the form of 12 small magnets that I will make a slide out of.
A digital caliper which makes measuring easier.
I am in the process of buying some jewellers scales.
Next purchase will be a pinger as easy to carry around.
I am also trying to find reliable sellers who arnt out to scam me.
Yeah all good advice.. Did all your coins turn out to be legit btw? At some point there was so much chatter that I probably missed a part as I don't remember.
I hope everything was legit!
!PIZZA
Yea it looks like all legit which was a real scare
Constitutional silver and gold is the easiest to spot fakes by just your eyes. There are tons of ways to check. A pocket pinger, a magnet slide, a Sigma verifier, acid solutions, and more. The number one faked item is a one ounce gold bar, second is the Morgan silver dollar.
Thanks, that's a valuable tip right there as I didn't know that the Morgan silver dollar is the second most faked one. I've been checking listings with these lately and almost bought one not too long ago. Now that I know this, I will definitely hold off to that for a bit, haha.
Great info, thank you.
If you are looking for one please find a true coin dealer. The amount of fakes out there is staggering and without a trained eye they are getting harder to spot.
It was more that I found some coins I put in my favourites to check later, compared prices and it was one I had my eye on. Now that I read your comment, I'm definitely not going to purchase that one anytime soon, unless I can either buy it in a shop in person (assuming they won't risk selling fakes as they get in trouble, which is another assumption btw) or if I know how to make sure I can check it.
Until then, this one is not on the table for me, and I will just go for others. This is why I love this community so much, these are the type of things you can't just learn all at once and we live and learn by mistakes but I'm happy you prevented me from this mistake I could have made otherwise.
Thanks again, I think this is my final !PIMP for today :)
Don’t be afraid at a local coin shop. They can’t afford to sell you fakes they will lose tons of business if that gets out.
I totally understand your trepidation, but I’m sure you will find one.
!pimp
To be honest, the only reason I have not walked into one of these shops here yet is not even the language barrier, because I know I can overcome any struggles that may (will) arise in these shops easily. It's simply the fact that I hate going into that particular city and love to stay in our corner where they don't have such shops. The city is not my thing (this city at least) and parking is a nightmare :)
We have to go there in the not so far future for some paperwork stuff and when we do, I plan on going to one of the coin shops to see what they have there. Until then, online it is.
It's good to know that I'm probably right about them not being that stupid to risk selling fakes. And who knows when I have one that I have my eye on, at some point a dealer can find it rather than me not being able to.
I'm just starting and my next silver rounds will be the silver mermaids in honour of my two daughters. I'm taking it one piece at a time and dream a bit here and there at the same time.
Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it!
I totally get it. Unfortunately I don’t have one close by anymore. But that’s the way to go.
Very nice, can’t wait to see the post.
We all learn from each other.
!pimp
You must be killin' it out here!
@thisismylife just slapped you with 20.000 PIMP, @silverd510.
You earned 20.000 PIMP for the strong hand.
They're getting a workout and slapped 4/4 possible people today.
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That's an answer I am saving for a blog post way to much to discuss, I would say stick to reputable and learn before going private need some know how and tools !BBH
Sure, I hope I won't miss the post, feel free to tag me or drop the link here when you published it!
!PIZZA
Will do , I'm thinking of arranging my blog posts to have some sort of table with links
That's a good idea. When I was writing guides, I also made sure to link them back so everything was easy to find. I'm also going to bundle these weekly questions in smaller sets and then make a collection (I think, never created one before, but that's the idea now).
I have already found so many valuable tips that I want to make sure that I can find it all back later.
I hear that the issue I have with collection is it's only on peakD !BBH
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You mean it's not visible on other frontends at all? I've never used it only seen some people use it so it's a new thing I'd try !LOL
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You may have seen this picture on the SGS Discord
Other than carrying a normal magnet, I am already very familiar with the sound of a silver coin.
I have a great local bullion retailer that I have done business for years, they have been in business in Precious metals and currency exchange since 1969. I have even talked to the Manager of this business assuring me that they test all products coming into their business. They do have Verifiers stationed at a table behind the counter with all staff trained in it proper operation. Explained that they are a registered Royal Canadian Mint Dealer and an accredited with the LBMA as a Dealer.
A large majority of my Stack has been from this Dealer, so I get a few perks like free Coin Tubes and monster boxes to store my stack in. The prices are always reasonable.
What I am saying here is to build a long termed business relationship with a reputable retailer. Their good standing in the business community is priceless.
Knowledge,familiarize yourself with the weight and feel of a bullion coin with it's details and security features. Silver coins have a distinct lovely tone when you ping them.
Instincts and common sense; when a price is too good to be true ... its likely fake.
❤️
No one scams a !LADY pirate and lives to tell the tale ☠️
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That's good and very reassuring for sure!
Yeah that's the end goal for me which at this point seems not to be possible in person due to the lack of having one near so it seems. We won't stay in this area forever though so I'm sure that will be achieved in the future.
Yes, I almost bought that fake bar (without risk as I took screenshots of the ad stating it was silver) just to feel the difference and maybe get it in real silver too. But in the end the seller admit it being plated and cancelled the sale. @silverd510 (I think it was you at least..) was quick enough to show an AliExpress link to the fake bar lol.
But as I mentioned, I totally expected it to be fake but there would be 0 costs for me due to the platform's buyer protection and free returns, especially with me taking screenshots as proof..
Thanks again for such a wonderful comment even though I know it must be hard to do so.. I would totally understand it if you don't share much due to your pain, but when you do, I appreciate you even more than I did !LUV !LADY
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Yoooo I always ping that ding with a flip from the thumb. Silver is the metal that naturally attracts itself around me (to and fro), so over the years I 've come to know it well. I learned at an early age to listen for the sound of silver in mostly 90% & 40% American coinage. As an adult I am now an audio engineer, producer, and vocalist.. so you can see why that makes cents (PUN!) into greater value.
Of course if you are versed in coinage, it's history, and markings (or at least know enough to pinpoint with some Google Oracle assist), the vetting process gets a little deeper. This part of the process allows you to reveal if there is any greater collector value in what you are speculating.
No matter if its coins, rounds, or bars.. I always tap for that ping to reveal it's potency. I wrote an article recently with more in depth details about this silver sound topic , if you are intrigued.
P.S. - I was almost done writing a much more poetic version of this comment that spawned from nowhere... but then I hit the page back button on my mouse and it was gone! This isn't what it was, but the best version I could regurgitate. Thank you for inviting me to participate @thisismylife !!
Bless the Method.
You are right your post was in-line with this week's question which is cool because now I also got to connect with another person I didn't know yet.
Thank you for linking that post, I'm bookmarking all the links people drop in the comment section to collect the valuable resources as I have plenty to learn.. But I love the journey and the community has been amazing and helpful.
Again, sorry for your loss of the comment you wrote in the first place, but this one is just as valuable to me and I'm happy you contributed to this initiative.
In a few days I will pick the HSBI "winners" and a new question.
Have a great day / night over there!
!LUV
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As a silver newbies, thew main way i collect silver is through my country official coins dated from before 1967 as they were all made out of silver and it's easy to compare them with other coins i have as they should be the exact same. Heard of things like magnet or so, but i don't have that for the moment. Just getting some CHF silver : )
If they are all the same and you know what the real deal is, good approach I guess. Thanks for your contribution :)
I'm on blurt feel free to go vote my post here
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