The curation floor and moving more

in LeoFinance3 years ago

Today, my curation was 66 HIVE, which I think is about where it will be on average after hardfork 25 and the changes to curation. As I was not a curation maximizer previously, this will be about 20% up on what I was getting pre-fork, helped along by me also being a comment voter, which was penalized by the convergent curve earlier. But, this is about what I had predicted the change in curation return would be for me and people similar to me. Of course, the maximizers are getting less, but there is more going to average curators in general, and there is nothing being returned to the pool now, whereas before, there was up to 20% going back in for redistribution.

viski.jpg

The curation return amount is only steady when voting in the first 24 hours, but can be increased by people voting after that. This means there is a floor curation if voting in the first 24 hours, which is pretty much getting the 50/50 split. Being a little more conservative, I will probably get more like 60 HIVE a day and with the current price of HIVE being 28 cents, that is about 16 dollars a day in curation. That probably sounds like quite a lot for some people, but it comes from years of powering up in order to be at this point.

It is a fair amount though and what is cool, is that is about the amount that is also going out to others in the community too and hopefully, they are powering what they get up also and pushing it out to others again. It is a bit of a challenge at times, because I want to support people who are looking long, but it is hard to find those who truly are. So many times in the past there have been the "all in on Hive" kinds of people only for the them to scarper as soon as it gets remotely difficult or the market declines.

I heard that there is the ongoing conversation (been ongoing since I have been around) getting more traction for increasing the voting values, so that they can carry more weight. For example, having a 200% vote instead of a 100%, meaning that the entire days voting can be done in 5 votes instead of 10. There are pros and cons to this, but one of the big pros is it would be possible for large stakeholders to be able to really boost great or very important content highly, as they can effectively double their vote value on one post. This can lead to far greater incentive and therefore competition for the high end for authors. Negatives to this is of course, people voting less widely and of course voting on their own content heavily - but that can be countered similarly as it is now.

While a lot of this kind of information only interests people because there is money involved and people like money, it is important for content creators to understand the ecosystem they are creating for, as well as the audience. My recommendation for people looking to build a significant presence here hasn't changed in 4 years and for those who have followed it and stuck with it, pretty much all of them have seen better than average performance.

"Better than average" is important for content creators as if what they are doing is the average, they aren't going to stand out enough in order to be seen and attract attention. A lot of people try to shortcut their path to attention by creating drama and this can work - but it rarely works in attracting stake. For the most part, stake prefers content and user who they feel are adding some value to their stake, which is quite a natural path to take.

Oh, I should probably bulletpoint some tips.

  • Learn about Hive
  • Create good content
  • Interact and engage well with a wide range of Hivers
  • Look to help and add value
  • Stay up to date
  • Be consistent
  • Be critical, but not whiny
  • Accept conditions as they are and know they can change
  • Create a niche for oneself
  • Be ethical
  • Look further than the payout
  • Take the good with the bad
  • Care about what you do and where you do it

Well, that should be enough of a rough idea to indicate that there is more to it than dumping a post onto the blockchain and reaping in rewards. This is an ecosystem in more than the technological sense, as there is a complex social structure involved with it also and while not everyone respects it, the system is far more advanced than many give it credit.

Too many people over the years have participated and got stuck in the moment of the blockchain, without acknowledging that things have, can and will change constantly. Some times those changes are a benefit for an individual, sometimes a hinderance or cost - but the changing landscape always brings with it opportunity for growth and innovation, if paying attention. The problem is, many get stuck in their ways of the time and then fear changes when they arrive, not embrace them.

16 dollars a day from the Finnish perspective is not going to do much at all, but since I look long and understand that conditions can change significantly, my financial hope is that in the future, HIVE is at 1, 2 or 5 dollars consistently, meaning that at 2 dollars, that the daily return could be 60, 120 or 300 dollars a day. That seems impossible to many I am sure, but there is far more chance of that happening than of me getting an equivalent increase in my paid IRL work for the same.

It is interesting what people will do for a 5% payrise a year and what they won't do to get that same amount or far more through investment and alternate income sources. There is close to no way that my work is going to double my salary in the next five years, but HIVE at 2 dollars in the same time?

The markets are notoriously difficult to predict, but there is one thing for certain, to have significant gain from the upside, stake of some sort is needed. However, those with no stake are still going to be affected. The world economy affects us all, whether we have money or not and on Hive, it affects us also, including who has stake and how they use it. Anyone can buy stake, as long as they have the economic availability, but earning stake on the platform is a different animal completely and not one that everyone handles the same or treats well.

But, we each make our own decision to join Hive, how we act on Hive and whether we stay on Hive. There is opportunity for many, but pretending that everyone is the same doesn't do anyone any favors. People doing what I do will only work for some people, but that doesn't mean that doing something else can't be effective and successful. This is the beauty here, as there are many possible approaches and for those who take an interest in finding their feet, their voice and taking responsibility, they can probably find a place where they can grow and in time, thrive.

I think we all want to feel like we have opportunity in this life, but I also think that the healthiest way is to create the opportunity ourselves. It probably isn't a quick process, an easy process, nor a process without costs - but it is possible. I guess it is the same in all parts of life - most of us never find out what we are capable of, because we are unwilling to put in the work and, just incase it doesn't work out the way we had hoped.

I don't think I have ever tried for something this hard or for this long before in my life and I am no stranger to work. It is interesting to me to think that once upon a time, I would never have put so much work into this much uncertainty, let alone invest myself even further into it. Yet, it is the most satisfaction I have had working for the future I have ever had.

The future is never guaranteed.
Economy. Culture. Code.
All things change. All things are connected.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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Buying hive is the easier way, you correctly say that getting rewards from writing is the hard part.

i think i went form average 9% to 11.X% after the hf. so people that did not use bots and did not snipe will mostly get more from curation now. that is probably ok as organic voting will at least not be punished.

Yep, this is a pretty good result and I will see the same, if not a little more because of so much comment voting,

You make a good point about what people will do for a 5% raise, versus the ease of doing the same thing on Hive. I like that on Hive, I can buy myself a raise. If I want to earn more, I put in more cash. Boom! Instant raise. It's like a vending machine. You put in your coins and get out the treat.

It's like a vending machine. You put in your coins and get out the treat.

I wish more realized this. Then on top of itz there are ways to have a lot of different kinds of fun in top.

I wonder how many of the proponents for the 200% vote have thought of the effect that would have on down vote efforts to prevent abuse such as haejin an rancho are perceived to be doing. It takes a lot of effort to cancel out or remove their vote. What effect would two free 200% down votes do? Would the larger orcas look more closely at malicious down voting of content because the the down voter disagreed with the content not the rewards, or malicious down voting because of country or race or politics. Right now when the largest accounts down vote content there is not much people, even other large orcas can do about it.

There is a lot that can be done on the up and down voting front, I hope for HF 26 some of the vote issues can be resolved.

I think that for the most part, a lot of the malicious downvoting has been counteracted by the community. What has been interesting is that some of the people who have been getting downvoted haven't built up much social capital through their behavior. For example, some of the POB stuff that has been going on. However, they can still earn and do earn a lot of POB, which is the benefit of the tribes and one of the reasons for having these niche tokens.

There is a place for all types on line, and I am sure that tribes will grow, especially with some of the tools being developed at Hive-Engine for second layer applications.

Earning about $1-$2 has been one of my life long aim on the block chain and am so surprised I did achieve that with time and not giving up.

Hopefully I can increase this to $10 daily in the future which is a great milestone especially when you're from this part of the world.

Hive is a great place to learn and earn on the go which no other platforms can offer you that much.

It'll be interesting to see you earning 100$ daily hopefully when hive hits $1-$3 in the future which am positive it will. NOW IS EVEN THE BEST TIME TO BUY AND KEEP STACKING
#HODL
!PIZZA

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Hopefully I can increase this to $10 daily in the future which is a great milestone especially when you're from this part of the world.

I think this is important for people to realize - their are a lot of differences around the world and what is a lot in one place, is almost nothing in another. However, a lot of the market price support is coming from the "richer" countries, allowing the poorer locations to benefit significantly. It is an interesting dynamic building now.

However, a lot of the market price support is coming from the "richer" countries, allowing the poorer locations to benefit significantly. It is an interesting dynamic building now.

100% correct. This helps create a type of semi-balance to the worlds financial system and with time things will be even more interesting and exciting.

Inflation of fiat is not becoming too much of an ado like it was before, due to the decentralized financial system that crypto currency offers.

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I'm here for the content and the community. The financial rewards are not my motivator, but those have been curiously addictive for me. I remember making my very first 1/2 cent - it had taken three months of posting, commenting and upvoting until I earned anything at all.

Since HF 25 my curation rewards have doubled, from half a hive token to a full hive token. lol. I make 30 cents a day, and feel happy about that.

Love that photo!

The financial rewards are not my motivator, but those have been curiously addictive for me.

It is an incentive for everyone, as it is needed by pretty much everyone. I am yet to meet anyone in all of my travels who is outside of the financial economy completely and I know people who live alone in the forest and have very little contact with the outside world.

I remember making my very first 1/2 cent - it had taken three months of posting, commenting and upvoting until I earned anything at all.

This is a common experience, but it seems to be that those who are interested in learning and developing, as well as adjusting themselves, tend to end up doing better by 6 months in. It is a long time for some, a short time for others.

Since HF 25 my curation rewards have doubled, from half a hive token to a full hive token. lol. I make 30 cents a day, and feel happy about that.

For the first six months I was hear there was a 2x curve in play, meaning that I earned essentially nothing on my curation, even though I had thousands in HP (SP at the time). After HF19 when it was flattened, I started earning really for the first time. all conditions change.

I got here right after that was changed I think. I had just started earning a bit on the small paying posts that I supported (because they were in my part of the pond) when the convergent curve hit. Suddenly I could make nothing on curation, and my posts made even less too. I know it was supposed to modify behavior, but I resented having to modify my own behavior (stop upvoting small accounts, stop upvoting comments) just to make a few cents a week.

I wonder if trying to modify behavior isn't futile, and if those regulations/modifications don't always harm the smaller swimmers here. A lot like real life. This recent fork seems to have helped some, and I am back to upvoting very low paying posts. My posts don't seem to make any more than they did pre-HF25, maybe even less. I know it's early and things are settling down.

BTW, I really appreciate your frequent support of my posts!!!

I’ve always been a bit of a lackadaisical curator, not trying to squeeze a bit more out of the reward pool by timing things just right, and haven’t done any autovoting since before the fork from the old chain. I just checked hivestats.io which, as a snapshot in time, is showing a curation return of 11% on an effective power of just under 29k HP which works out to about 61 Hive a week. I’ve got another approximately 20k HP out as delegations, some earns payouts and some doesn’t.

Since I don’t need any earnings right now, I’m still planning on never powering down. But if Hive goes 10x or so from here, I’d be sorely tempted to skim off some liquid earnings for an income stream, even though I’d still let HP grow.

60 a week sounds about right. I think once settled (I am still having affects from the curation thing on my calcs) I will be at about 460-500 a week, depending on later voters. 11% is pretty good.

2 or 3 dollar HIVE and that 60 HIVE in CR looks pretty good, so does selling 5000 or so for a lumpsum :)

]Being a little more conservative, I will probably get more like 60 HIVE a day and with the current price of HIVE being 28 cents, that is about 16 dollars a day in curation. That probably sounds like quite a lot for some people, but it comes from years of powering up in order to be at this point.

Quit rubbing it in, will ya🙂

Nah, it isn't rubbing it in, it is giving a demonstration of possibility. I use myself as an example because it is mine to use, but there are many out there that have done similar.

I joined this platform almost exactly at the same time you did. About 4 years ago, just a few months later than you did.

But I have never been consistent here, and you were. That shows in the results. You are a top author on hive, and no one knows about me.

When I joined in 2017, I was active for 3-4 months. And got good results.

The only problem was I couldn't see long term. So, I stopped writing, being active here.
I don't regret not having a big stake on hive(although I would want to), as I have gained and lost big amounts in crypto trading and investing in shitcoins. So, I know you can never get it always your way.

What I regret more is not being consistent in writing. Being a non native english speaker, I couldn't write one post in 2017. Last year, I was active for 3 or more months, I was able to write 90+ posts. And writing became easier for me.

This year, I have written a few more posts, and they are coming better.
They might be still trash, unclear and unconnected ideas from other's perspective, but quite better in comparison of my performance when I first started here.

The idea that being active here not only gives you an opportunity to make money but to grow in other area as well is what I missed to grasp.

I have made many friends here, who are completely different, think differently as compared to IRL friends.

Being consistent for 90 days alone was a remarkable memory for me. Something I haven't done before on an online platform(pushing myself when no one asked me or expected me to do). And I could only imagine what you would feel being consistent and putting so much work for 4+ years.

Maybe seeing short term was in my learning curve. So, this time, I will focus on long term. And hope to be consistent for a few years🙂

When I joined in 2017, I was active for 3-4 months. And got good results.

Yes.

The only problem was I couldn't see long term. So, I stopped writing, being active here.

It is amazing how many times in life we stop doing what is working for us.

The idea that being active here not only gives you an opportunity to make money but to grow in other area as well is what I missed to grasp.

We aren't well suited to bigger picture, especially when we have immediate wants and needs to satisfy. We sell ourselves out more often than having opportunity taken away from us, yet people so often feel the victim of the world.

That's so true😄

Since I'm a manual curator of posts and comments I'm seeing an improvement too. I didn't really grasp before that the old system didn't reward comment curators. Now seeing the difference the lightbulb has gone on. 😂

I'm not keen on a 200% upvote personally since the pros for it seem to depend on what is considered to be "good" content and that is a debate that has been raging the whole time I've been here. I'd rather people spread their curation around to more than 10 upvotes rather than fewer.

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I didn't really grasp before that the old system didn't reward comment curators. Now seeing the difference the lightbulb has gone on. 😂

Most didn't. People would take it for granted that I and other continued voting on comments, seeing it as no big deal, but the "personal cost" (potential) was very large. For me, it would likely amount to quite a few thousand HIVE "lost" because of the curve, but I saw it as more important to reward than maximize.

I'd rather people spread their curation around to more than 10 upvotes rather than fewer.

I am in two minds at this point and will think more on it. What I do know is that it would be useful for some to be able to have a larger vote at times, and of course they can still split when they want. I can't imagine what it would be like to have a 100 dollar vote, let alone a 1000 dollars if it hit 10x from here to distribute. It is a massive amount of work, considering a 10% vote would be 100 dollars worth and they can do that 100x a day. How to find 100 posts worth at least 100 dollars a day?

How to find 100 posts worth at least 100 dollars a day?

Ah. Yes. I see what you mean. I don't really vote that way though. I'm not asking myself how much a post is worth in Hive/dollars. I vote based on how much effort was put in, how unique a post is, whether it made be laugh, made me think, taught me something etc.

The size of vote is relative to the other posts around at the time rather than to an absolute quantity. So when there are lots of great posts/comments everyone will get a bit less and vice versa.

!ENGAGE 30

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I vote based on how much effort was put in, how unique a post is, whether it made be laugh, made me think, taught me something etc.

Yes, I do mostly the same, but imagine if blocktrades or theycallmedan for example di the same as this. Even when they vote widely now, they are criticized for not being wide enough and much of what they vote on might not be personally of interest to them.

Even when they vote widely now, they are criticized for not being wide enough and much of what they vote on might not be personally of interest to them.

They are in the minority though so blanket changing things across the board with the whales in mind doesn't work for me. It's an interesting dilemma though.

If I was in their position I'm not sure what I'd do. That's a whole different ball game and I can see how dollar amounts start to matter more here.

Maybe there should be a maximum vote value for any one person to receive and some more creative uses for excess VP. Just thinking outloud here . . . 😂

!ENGAGE 20

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This isn't a blanket change for the whales. It seems that small accounts are far less wide than many seem to believe. The whales are probably among the widest now. My point is, this is a dpos platform, so stake matters.

There were many complaints when the whales voted on the hbd stabiliser, which effectively took something like 3 million Hive out of circulation.

No change is ever going to make everyone happy.

No change is ever going to make everyone happy.

True that! 😁

I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing, grateful for the increase in curation rewards.

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Feeling knocked out of focus by circumstances I am not accustomed to...yet...I am at least still manually curating. You know what I forget about all the time?

!BEER

And I don't mean the kind I should focus on forgetting about. If focusing on forgetting is a thing.

Cheers!

It is the ebb and flow of life on and off the chain. For me, I have been able to combine the two so that no matter what is happening off, I can use it for on also. It has meant that there is very little separation between on and off, which is easier for me, since I don't have to make anything up - other than the bits that are fiction... semi-fiction ;)

It's super easy to be all in on anything when things are going well xD

Yep. Everyone loves the government until they stop the handouts!

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I think I wouldn't know what to do with myself if the price of Hive ever got back up around $1 and just stayed there for a while. It would almost be surreal you know. I'd love to say I don't care about the payouts anymore, but they are certainly not top of mind like they used to be.

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 3 years ago  Reveal Comment

i wish voting power can be utilised in the sense of curating originality and quality contents no matter if auther are well known or not on hive blogging platform.

What many will find is if they look at the commonly rewarded authors, many of them are actually producing the better content consistently on the platform. Consistency in reward generally means building trust with the community.