How High is Enough?

in LeoFinance8 months ago

With the recent movement on the Bitcoin price that pushed it above 50K (briefly for now), a couple group chats started getting messages, after being largely dormant for a little while. It is interesting that while some people don't talk about their interests that much in crypto, as soon as there is upward price movement, they are back into engaged mode and ready to once again acknowledge their dreams of crypto wealthiness.

What is wealthy?

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Have you considered this for your location and preferences?

I am not wealthy. Nor am I rich, well-off, or upper-middle income. I am not even middle-middle income. I guess, I would be somewhere around the lower-middle range, though my wife and I have managed to get a house together, because we made a couple of decent moves with previous apartments, so we had enough for the deposit. It also helped a lot that we bought a "fixer-upper" instead of something that was "ready", and have been renovating it for the last four years.

It is a bit strange though in some ways, as "having a house" seems to indicate to people I know here that we must be well-off. Most of this is because they do it through comparison, where because they aren't in a house, that we must be in a better situation than them. Yet, this is likely not the case, as most likely, they earn more than my wife and I.

However, there are a couple things that will differ amongst people and their usage of money that matter in this regard. One is the obvious way that money is used, where there are people who spend far more than they "need" to on things like cars, holidays, and eating out. This cuts into their ability to save, as well as their sense that they can service a house mortgage, even though it is likely not much more than the rent that they are paying, or a mortgage on an apartment. For instance, one of my friends bought a 40m² old apartment (430ft²) in Helsinki, for the same price we bought our 200m² (2150ft²) house, on a 1100m² block in a smaller city.

It is a lifestyle choice.

The other aspect to the way money is used, is also through risk, where some people are willing to invest, but they aren't necessarily willing to put it into a house. This is probably what is the case for a number of my friends, which means that while they live in an apartment, they have a high rate of invested wealth in stocks and the like, including some in crypto.

Nothing wrong with this approach.

For many, it makes a lot more sense to do it this way, especially if they aren't settled with their job, or the city in which they live. It gives freedom and reduces the hurdle to move if needed, as wealth moves with, unlike a house. Yet, there is still this interesting phenomena where people in this situation, seem to think that people who have a house are doing the same, plus having a house.

Some are.

How many? I don't really know, but if we are looking at the impact of wealth, the wealthy are those who are able to have more financial options that they can take simultaneously. I am not talking about the ultra-rich where there are no limits, but wealthy enough that a person can own a house, have a nice car, travel, spend liberally on consumer goods, and still be able to put the majority of their income into generative investments.

The rich get richer.

Because it is very hard for them not to, just by human nature. Once there is a significant level of wealth available, the constraints of low-level spending come off, but the high level spending is still in place. The richer one becomes, the harder it is to live hand to mouth, because the mouth just can't take that level of spending. So, there is always wealth left on the plate, and that get cycled into more investments.

An interesting observation of this situation is where people seem to make an assumption that to be wealthy, bad things have to be done, or people have to be very frugal. But, at the same time, if a person loses their wealth or "wastes" their wealth through constant spending, the general opinion is that the person was an idiot with their money. There are plenty of lottery winners (and inheritance kids) who fall into that category, because they probably haven't developed the financial habits and hygiene that someone who has "earned" their money has over the space of years.

A friend of mine was earning twice as much as I am now, seventeen years ago, and had nothing to show for it. He was living hand to mouth to the point that he would run out of money a few days before payday, and have to borrow from friends. I found this insane, especially since at the time, I was earning about a third of what I am earning now, and was struggling to make ends meet.

Frivolous.

Was he wealthy? Not at all. But, he had the potential to be, but his behaviors meant that he wasn't able to turn it into something tangible. Instead, it was just financial potential wasted, and the worst part was, he wasn't even happy in his life. He wasn't using the "privileged" amount of money he was getting, to improve his, or anyone else's lives at all-. Well - I guess the places he spent copious amounts of money on drinks benefited.

Wealth is a funny concept, because while many people say things like "health is wealth" and "money can't buy love", money itself is just a tool that can be applied to affect the conditions. Being poor doesn't create the environment for health or love any different than being rich does. But, money can change the effective environment, where there are opportunities to meet people, work with people, buy better quality food, experience, atmosphere and a whole range of other influential factors. It doesn't guarantee outcomes, but used well, it can increase the likelihood of improving wellbeing. Money can't buy love, but it can help create spaces where love is under less pressure due to the daily grind.

What is considered wealthy in your region?

What would that look like in your opinion and, would you want to be wealthy? What does it require, what are the behaviors needed, the job needed, the income level needed to effectively build the runway to wealth? What tools do you have available, networks, skills? What are you willing to do?

Maybe, it isn't important to you at all, and that is a fine approach as well. But, if what we are doing isn't aligned with what we want from this life, we are likely going to find it increasingly difficult to meet the basic needs that money can't buy.

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How high does it need to go?

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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I am one of your friends :)

Would like a house or an apartment, just don't fancy the 25 year mortgage - I'd probably need a 20 year one at my age. So the plan is to live somewhere nice (it's really nice!) and sunny (and really sunny!) and hold my crypto til selling half buys me a place - maybe this one.

How high does it need to go?

2x btc, 10x hive, thanks!

I think for you, it isn't going to take too long before you are settling into a fully owned place :)
I am looking forward to visiting you.

2x BTC?
I obviously don't have enough :D

10x on hive would be okay though.

I like your optimism :) I was hoping for that in 2021 but had a feeling I'd need another Bull.

Not much BTC for me, just need the 10x HIVE

10x Hive and I am debt free for life. Wouldn't be bad.

My wife and I would probably be considered lower middle class as well. I also think there is a huge difference between owning a house and paying on a mortgage for a house. If I live in a $300,000 house (I don't) but I owe $280,000 on the mortgage, then I really don't own anything. I remember those years of renting and I wish I had that money back now. I can appreciate not wanting to feel locked into anything, but I just really wish I had done things differently.

Yes, it isn't owning anything really, which is why I would rather the house over an apartment of the same value. My friend will probably look to have a family one day, so will have to move again anyway :)

I didn't end up renting for "too long" but long enough. I came to Finland with nothing though, so had to build from scratch and it has taken a lot of time and effort to even get this far.

Doing things differently... A few small tweaks ad everything changes to a extreme. Wouldn't be bad to try.

I just had to drop you a message to say how much I loved your recent piece on wealth and finances. Seriously, it was like you were reading my mind!

Your take on the whole "owning a house equals wealth" thing really hit home. It's so true that people often jump to conclusions based on appearances without considering the bigger picture.

I like how you dug into the different ways people handle their money – from splurging on luxuries to smart investing.

I am currently about to start my life and some things I practice I learned from some of your posts like how you did your wedding.

Thanks for giving us all something to chew on.

Just starting your life? Have your studies finished now?

Have your studies finished now?

Yes I have finished my studies and also passed my exams fo practice medicine in the US.

Being wealthy to me means not only having investments, but also being able to prepare for the future and grow your resources. It's about having financial stability and the ability to increase your wealth over time.

Have you considered how much that would require for you?

Yes, I have.

I guess our household is also "lower middle" in most senses of the word, except maybe for the fact that we own our house outright (no loans) and due to the insane property prices in the USA, we basically live in "a million-dollar house."

But it doesn't really mean anything, in the sense that this is our home, where we have been for 15 years and we don't really see it as a negotiable asset/investment.

Which brings the point I often contemplate: Wealth really IS a mindset, not a number.

Most people never pause to consider what "enough" looks like, they fixate only on the word "more."

Mostly, I'd like to see Hive thrive, from a crypto perspective. We often talk about "$X Hive" in dreamy tones... for us $10.00 Hive would likely mean the freedom to re-allocate our efforts differently... and very little else.

=^..^=

Most people never pause to consider what "enough" looks like, they fixate only on the word "more."

Exactly. As you said about reallocation, it is not just assets in the physical sense, but also in the psychological sense. Spend less time on what might not be seen as overly valuable to life experience.

It seems that some things change with the times while others stay the same.

When getting married, I figured I wanted to spend less money on rent and turn that into an asset we could live in. I figured a condo would be great but discovered that condo fees were the same expense as rent and then you had a mortgage on top of that.

So, we bought our first house and now are in our second, with only maybe 20% of the value left on the mortgage. Not because we aggressively paid it off, just gradually and then real message values doubled almost overnight a couple years ago.

So, there is the same perception here. You own a house. Prices are way too high for me to afford one so you must be wealthy. Not really but I am far on the other side of the line almost owning something that most people simply cannot start to purchase, let alone pay for unless they are in a very well paying job with a double income and a solid marriage.

Things are tight as hell right now with limited income, and an entrepreneurs “salary” that is dependent upon business success which comes and goes in the early years.

So definitely not wealthy, waiting for my crypto lottery numbers to come up, feeling I haven’t bought enough tickets.

It seems that some things change with the times while others stay the same.

I suspect, that cavemen were looking to solve for the same needs as we do now, just in different ways.

Not really but I am far on the other side of the line almost owning something that most people simply cannot start to purchase,

Yes, so what is the actual worth if there isn't people able to buy?

and an entrepreneurs “salary”

Painful! So many memories of lean times, with little light up ahead.

So definitely not wealthy, waiting for my crypto lottery numbers to come up, feeling I haven’t bought enough tickets.

This is the eternal problem.

"wealth" has been completely skewed in my region recently. The influx of Californians has led to a massive increase in home prices and rental costs. Used cars are absurdly expensive. Just breaking even is a burden, because pay barely keeps up with national CPI inflation, to say nothing of real local cost fluctuations.

Your state needs to start taxing more! ;D

I barely have any BTC, but I have been getting more Hive. How high does it need to go? With my 2k Hive, a lot haha. As for other investments, I do think owning a house and lot is significantly better in the long run. Because for apartments/condo, you're basically just holding a piece of paper. If the building gets demolished, almost all the value disappears.

If the building gets demolished, almost all the value disappears.

There have been some recent cases of this kind of thing I have read, where the buildings weren't built properly and need to be taken down. Owners lose.

I wouldn't mind getting a house but those prices tend to be quite high. It also depends on what people really need to be good enough, but I have a feeling that a lot of people will never have enough. Living enough and having the freedom to do whatever I want is all I desire though.

The demands on what is a decent house today, is very different to what it was 40 years ago and, there weren't all the other subscriptions and entertainment needs on top then.

Cryptos go up: the rise of the dead
Cryptos go down: the death of the risen

And on and on and on....

Lols - I like that.

A lot of youths from my country now believe that you need to bad things or engage in fraud or any kind of bad act before we can be wealthy which is a lie. There are many things we can do that can make us extremely rich but some people’s mind has already been glued to the bad thinking

It seems in some places, that has been the common practice. Governments are corrupt, but it might be a chicken and egg problem.

Having a house plus a car is the symbol of being well off here in my country :)

Here, it is possible to check ownership and finance status :D

How High is Enough?

100 dollars Hive would satisfy me.

That would see me through...

Wealth is not just about having lot of money investment sites but also having the wealthy mindset and to how we use wisely for investment

In my area, money are usually seen as a synonym to the things one owns use in an indulgently way but wealth, in its real sense, is not only defined by assets accumulated. It consists of being financial security, mankind satisfying and the possibility of giving back to society positively. Being successful and rich is not an option of having enough money but also prodigious skills, strength to go through hard times, and a temporary goal you continuously pursue.

Some, perhaps, may be big on money while the others may be interested in mind-blowing trips, quality time spent with friends and family, or giving back to others. Finally the one with what wealth is isn’t merely a theoretical dispute but the definition can alter from one person to another, depending on several factors. Which is a pivotal task, because being true and harmonious with what is really important for every individual, regardless of form, is the key.

Never high enough when I'm having a good toke!

But when it comes to money, I just DCA and play the long game. I don't have the sense to own and improve a property, so I continue to rent in a big city and save on transportation costs.