Buy-in, Sell-out, Buy-back

in LeoFinance3 years ago

I was thinking a little bit about the current price of HIVE and how far it could move - what do you think?

$5? - $10? - $20?

Does 20 sound crazy? Yeah - to me too. 20, and I am a technical millionaire.

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The top is hard to predict though, isn't it? It is interesting to think however that so far this year, HIVE is currently up around 14x from the January lows. OF course, lots of things are up though, as this is a bull market.

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It has a long way to climb still, I believe.

Do you believe?

We all know that when it comes to price, scarcity matters, but in general, most tokens have zero utility, so pretty much all of them are liquid all of the time, which is one of the reasons there is so much volatility in crypto. Since gains require required buying low and selling higher, people had no other reason to hold, other than to wait for a higher price to sell, before everyone else does.

This has changed somewhat now, as while there still isn't much utility, there is reason to hold, because tokens can attract more tokens. Pooling and providing liquidity for yield is highly lucrative and while 100% a year doesn't compare to a 1400% run, there is a consistency and safety in it, as one doesn't have to sell holdings in order to benefit. I believe that this is massively attractive for the largest holders, as they can go into pools and earn large amounts, risking very little - especially on the single-sided pools.

For example with me, I have a fair amount locked up into the CUB Finance platform and it has been very good to me over the last 8 months, as the daily yield has allowed me to invest deeper, without having to worry about trading at all. I average about 35% yROI on what I hold there - why sell? And of course, the value of what I hold has increased with the value of the markets, so the value of the yield has also.

What this does though, is create liquid scarcity on the markets, as people weigh up the potential values of selling with getting that consistent return. Less tokens free on the market at times of high demand, the greater the upward potential as the market is quite thin. I will get back to this.

Hive

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The third number is "virtual HIVE" - if all HBD was converted to HIVE, as that is technically possible through the conversion mechanism.

Vested HIVE

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So, only about 40% of the entire HIVE supply is vested and subject to the 13 week powerdown, meaning that 60% is liquid on the markets. That is quite a lot! But, this actually doesn't quite tell the full story, do you know why?

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Shit! That's a lot of liquid HIVE!

This is the @hive.fund account and it is what feeds the Hive Development Fund. It is really interesting to see the wallet activity for this account, as the @hbdstabilizer account plays the markets and puts more HIVE or HBD in there consistently.

This fund holds around 18.5% of the entire HIVE supply. Not only that, 8.2M HBD, it also holds 33% of all of the HBD.

The current-ish market capitalization of HIVE is a 550M US dollars worth and this is based on the circulating supply, which includes the HBD conversion, so 387M HIVE. That means though, that the @hive.fund account is worth almost 20% of the entire market cap. This is the fund that will be used for development through the proposal system. The higher the price of HIVe, the more development that can take place.

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That is incredibly important.

105 million worth is a decent slush fund.

However, it is also important to note that this Hive will never hit the market in some kind of lump sum sell, in the way that it did in a private sale between @ned and Justin Sun a couple years ago, which led to the forking of the community and creation of HIVE.

What this account means though, is that while the staked HIVE is at 40%, there is another 20% that is effectively locked up and only released at a trickle, and not enough to really affect the markets, considering the volumes now. The 24h volume on HIVE was almost 220M worth.

This means that there is about 150M Hive liquid around the place, sitting on exchanges and in various wallets - is that scarce enough o get a price of 5, 10, 20?

I think so.

The reason is that the largest holders, aren't likely the ones who are going to be selling low, meaning that the smaller sellers will start to ladder out of the market as prices climb and often earlier than the larger would. This creates a massive gap in the market, where for example, if the largest sellers are looking for 20 dollars, the smaller ones are going to likely run out of HIVE before 10, leaving the markets thin past that point. This means it doesn't take too much to push the value up, before the liquid whales start their sell offs. Hard and fast up, quickly down the other side too.

I think we can see this illustrated a little in the volume on Binance (HIVE/USDT), where after the initial spike last week to 1.31 that cleared out a lot of sellers, the move to 1.54 has been pretty low volume, as there is little resistance on the way up.

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But, Hive has some reasons to use it also. Sure, everyone wants those high sell prices, but there is a lot of uncertainty around that also. What is certain is being able to earn some curation returns. Yep, it might only be 20% but for example at 10 dollar Hive, my vote is worth around 80 dollars a day. That is 400 worth from curation a day. That doubles at 20 dollar Hive. Of course, to get that value, it would still have to be sold, but that is selling earnings, not capital.

I think people are starting to understand that selling capital is a risk and that the consistency of return on at least a portion of their holdings through various yield mechanisms is valuable. There are going to be a lot of sellers in crypto, but are they going to sell out their entire holdings? I don't think so. Staking is too lucrative and even if for example they sell a lot of a token for stables, most won't go out to fiat, and they will stake what they have back into those pools for a percentage yield. I predict the future floor to be significantly higher than the last, because people will not be getting out of crypto. I also think that HBD might become attractive for many to hold as an option also.

As said, I don't know what the actual price is going to be, but I do think that there will be a fair bit of scarcity on the markets as we move toward a top and, it will only be near that top that the largest sellers start selling. Believing this means that I am reluctant to sell "low" as I don't want to be the one that has the tokens shaken out of my hands at 10.20% of the top. I think others are expecting a much higher high too, so that expectation means that they are going to move their ladders up and, create even more scarcity in that mid-range, after all the weak hands prematurely distributed. The buyers in that range who are looking for a 5-10x from there, don't mind picking up "cheap" HIVE.

Cheap and expensive are only opinions. For some, selling HIVE at 1 dollar seemed like a great idea - until it sits at $1.50. Buying at $1.50 seems like a terrible idea considering it was 11 cents in January, until it hits $15 dollars for a 10x gain.

I don't know what the absolute top will be, but I plan on making a bit of it this time, unlike I have done in the post and just held up and all the way down. But, don't take this as a sign of "getting out of Hive", as I plan on keeping most of my stack intact and using what I have bought more recently to take advantage of the thin markets up to the top and then, buyback in the midst of the bear, so that when the bottom comes, I am a whale, participating hard until the bull returns.

That "bottom" might be around where price is today. That means for people selling today, they might never hold that much HIVE again. But this is the way it goes. 10,000 BTC could buy a couple pizzas, now it can buy almost anything. However, it doesn't matter what you held, just what you hold.

Most people sell.

But the real differentiator is, whether they buy-back.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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Yep one can never know. I sold a lot in the last pump at $1.2 and was going to buy back at 60 cents but it never got down there. Could be $18 by March next year or could by 20 cents. Anyone who claims to know is lying (as the markets are so dethatched from underlying value). The important thing is to keep a moonfund of hive (that you never sell in case it 100x) and then trade with the rest and don't look back. There are opportunities everywhere in crypto. Hive is one that I am personally vested in for 4 years but that is not to say there are not other opportunities elsewhere. So selling to take fiat and selling to invest in other things are two different scenarios IMO.

Anyone who claims to know is lying

Yes. It is all guesswork!

The important thing is to keep a moonfund of hive (that you never sell in case it 100x) and then trade with the rest and don't look back.

This is my plan. I have my base Hive held in mind and won't go below that - and will try to gather a lot more over the coming years.

So selling to take fiat and selling to invest in other things are two different scenarios IMO.

I am learning. I have never gone to fiat but for a very long time, I was 90% Hive. I have diversified a bit from there, but it is still a big bag.

Sold my last liquid yesterday at $1.7 and now $3.1; wow. I was thinking it would retest the $1 tops. Looks like its heading for $10

I think we can see this illustrated a little in the volume on Binance (HIVE/USDT), where after the initial spike last week to 1.31 that cleared out a lot of sellers, the move to 1.54 has been pretty low volume, as there is little resistance on the way up.

THIS.

It’s very impressive that, this time, HIVE has been been advancing on such low volume. In at least the last three pump-and-dump cycles, the pump came on high volume and the dump was on lower volume.

Yes, so I am hoping we are shaping up for some strong hands for a while at least. there is some resistance around 2, but past that, there are some blue skies to 3 :)

It will be interesting to see how the price fluctuates on the 8th December with the chaos cards going on general sale.

Yep, that might be an interesting time of things too!

Was actually going to write a little about SL tonight, but not sure if people can take anymore of me and Splinterlands! :D

My question would be what % of Splinterland players since the NFT surge buy Hive before converting to DEC , SPS or do they buy those credits straight from paypal. Do they even have to touch Hive dollars so it mightn't have must of an affect on the price as I presume.

I think Splinterlands is drawing a lot of value in from other places now. Also, most of the "hive holders" in SL sold their holdings ages ago.

I had at one point a little bit of HBD, I sold as I was getting 5 to 1 or better ratio. Hive to HBD is not that great right now, but still I am buying some HBD, (slowly of course), to add eventually into my savings account. I am up to 50 HBD and have been getting about 1.15 HBD per Hive, not that great a price but still in a year, who knows, I do like the 10% earnings on HBD, and hope to get my balance up to 100 HBD. I will be working on that more diligently after I reach my Hive goal.

In the mean time I watch and learn and grow.

I was going to trade the HBD I had to Hive the other day and was thinking "99 seems too expensive"...

Are you learning a lot during this period?

I am, or so I believe. I do not think going into 2022 that I will be as active on Hive-Engine tokens, or I will be more choosy and look at the numbers much much closer. An account balance of $1,100 does not mean you can sell your tokens and end with $1,100, more like maybe $500 if you are lucky. I was using H-E as a place to earn and hold yet also to sell and get liquid funds, for the most part it has worked out, but not as well as I had hoped it would.

As for HBD, I think by spending a little bit now, slowly, that the peg and the interest will be worth it. 100 HBD in savings is only 1 new HBD a month, but that could in the future convert to 1 Hive worth ten dollars.

I wrote a post about somehting similar tonight as the resistance is sell orders is non existent. Last night at the $1.20 mark it was mainly single or double digits and would love to know what is ahead before the ATH. Next week will be a big week I think as this is all lining up perfectly to hit $2 or more easily. $20 is not that far fetched considering Bitcoin hasn't really done much of late and we need it to kick off. Who knows Hive may make some big moves before Bitcoin putting us way ahead of other coins.

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There are some sells around 2, but they can be gobbled up fast. Not much past 2.3 up to 3 though on Binance. The bots play a role here, so if they fire in one location, they fire everywhere.

@ykretz.leo bro I am using hive from 2017 I don't think we are going to loss anything because hive is most decentralized blockchain nobody can take control of it that's why there is no chance of huge loss until someone takes control of whole blockchain and taking down it

I don't think anyone is going to take this chain down for a while.

Agreed Sr.

@tarazkp is it technically possible to take down hive blockchain?

ummm.. technically, anything is possible. Likely? not really

@tarazkp very said to hear that means hive is not 100% secure

Nothing is 100% safe/sure/secure over this planet. Uncertainty and chaos is the fuel that moves the world ;)

i have master key to take chain down, but i don't use, i promise #justinsun

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I'm sure I'm gonna stay for a long time and if someone tries to take control of the chain he's stupid because it have been created just because a guy took control too luch of steem

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Nice thoughts bro

I see it clear, how couldn't I having into account your great concise but efficient explanation.

I wished I could make those "movements" and get in those opportunities but my funds aren't enough so my plan is to keep holding and holding till the top you stated seems prehistoric cos of we are well above 100$ :P

I think as you that the potential development of the HIVE blockchain has only started its way so we are going to see amazing use cases within some time. I'm excited on the future I can almost see on the horizon that I some time ago only could imagine. I'm not talking about numbers (money/value) but more about the utility that coders will bring to "our" chain so the incoming flow of common users even those that won't know that they are moving/interacting with the blockchain at all.

I think the hit would be that we could swap inadvertently with our FIAT, let's say use our bank cards to buy products/services with HIVEs/HBDs like we do it nowadays when paying $ with € and vice versa.

The time for crypto is coming and I think many are already using the "crypto cards" to do the conversion, rather than selling into fiat. There will be more crypto business coming in the near future though :)

It would be amazing to have something like Amazon accepting payments in HIVE, why not to dream big? hahaha...

"selling capital is a risk"

Taraz, 2021.

The age old dilemma of the hodler... To sell and lament when the price skyrockets or to hold and wail as the top rollercoasters back down and you count what could have been!

yeah - I am never sure what to do - so i am going to do a bit of everything :)

Me too. Fingers in too many pies syndrome!

Yes 5$ sounds very crazy already. Now that India is baning crypto there will be a small bloodbath. Although Hive is diametrically to what was going on the last few weeks, the Bitcoin standard is still in place, no more than 7$ and as I said 5$ are already Alex's crazy wonderland

Don't you find it interesting that they "ban crypto" as a risk to people's economy without acknowledging that the reason people are taking the risk is that the current economy doesn't work for them at all?

Yes exactly that's the reason why I'm not selling 😁 Rather minting my first piece of my new collection "Disciplin & Despair" this Sunday @nftshowroom 😛

That sounds great. Hope it goes well :)

It's going better already cause this is exactly the output I need right now 🥰

In short-term I believe that the price of HIVE will remain over $1. In middle-term I think it will fluctuate between $1-$2.

$5 might be sensible price for selling HIVE; however, then buying HIVE might not be cheap anymore.

(All is my opinion, not a financial advice)

it might be cheap at 5, it hits 10 :)

$1.70 right now :)

To me the short term target is $5 and long term is $10 not to be too optimistic. Let's see where it goes.

10 would be great :)

Most of the ones who joined the crypto ship a few years ago and who are not professional traders have "suffered" hodling their crypto assets while the bear market took place. It is true that looking back it seems a shame not to have sold and bought back on the lows but things are easier to say when looking back that the moment they are happening, plus, all those who did, have also seen nice overall portfolio gains from the airdrops plus yields Hive offers, so in the end, it has not been a bad strategy at all. Especially compared to traditional finance yields which for most of us would have been the ridiculous interest rates we would have gotten from our regular bank accounts. :)

Just HODL the HIVE! I believe it will reward us all - handsomely mind you! :)

I am a hodler from way back ;)

I think it's good that Hove is climbing slowly but surely. We don't want the pump and dump type of scenario and will surely want it to rise to 5 in near future.

It will dump into the bear, but it will hopefully be more of a slow evacuation to the mid and lower range, giving opportunity.

The way things are now, we're only one good pump away from $5, $10 if my beloved Koreans participate in the pump <3

Yep - It isn't as farfetched as some people believe.

Selling, holding in HBD and buying back. Not financial advice but if it was, it would be wise.

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sounds like a plan :)

And then we have terrible hoarders like me XD

I might sell at some point but it would be a specific amount for a specific thing, I would much rather just use the hive if I could

I was a bit O_O when I happened to notice the price last night (which came in the form of "what why did my upvote number change" so I checked my wallet) and told sibling dearest about it and she was all SELL XD and I was like but I don't wanna x_x

I showed J as well and he said he didn't think it was going to drop too much, I'm not sure what was going on inside his head when he was looking, maybe he thinks the same as you :)

Some people sold yesterday, they missed last night :)

J is right I think. A couple months still to run on this.

I wouldn't bet against the run. Topcall = impossible before it happens.

But all coins are under 500M MC pump. It is not because hive goes mainstream.

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Yeah, mainstreaming is some time away.

If this will keep going like it is now Hive will be better than any santa claus. Because it is real. This jump is already quite insane.

just warming up i hope :)

I tend to sell what little liquid HIVE I have during pumps. I sell for HBD. Then, when price comes down again, I move back into HIVE. This is HIVE, typically, that I earn from leasing, not from my post and curation earnings. That HIVE gets powered up.

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This is a good way to do it :)

I swear I did a double take on your photo. Looks just like something I have taken. Hmmmm....

I hope Hive goes straight to the moon. Isn't that what we are all supposed to say? 😂

I swear I did a double take on your photo. Looks just like something I have taken. Hmmmm....

All my photos are always mine - unless stated. I can probably count on my hands how many times I have used other people's images in 5 years :)

Hive is coming down from the moon, but it will start looking for the sun soon :)

"All my photos are always mine - unless stated. I can probably count on my hands how many times I have used other people's images in 5 years :)"

You sir, are an artist 😊

I try to be :)

If you lived through 2017 you know to take some profits along the way but you also know how high things can get and how fast they can do it.
I am just sitting on my hive, 22k is enough and it needs to be at least 10+ to be worth it to sell and if its at that level I would presume my other bags are pumping as well.

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and if its at that level I would presume my other bags are pumping as well.

Yeps. I have liquids now (unlike in 2017 :D ) and have been trading for months backwards and forwards - so selling some doesn't "cost me" so to speak - it really is just profit. However, I am looking to get back in at the bear and move into whale territoty this time.

but you also know how high things can get and how fast they can do it.

Yep. I think some people are surprised at the rapidity of this - but we have seen it before. It was funny last night in a tightknit discord where while it was moving to ATHs, people were excited, but just went off to bed as it was late. :D Back in the day - all would have been up til the end.

i also think that the whales sell very close to the top, sure, they can move the price. And I also think some take 5 dollars as a target mark. I will sell piece by piece and will also be one of those who will definitely not sell a significant part. Because it may well be that I will never get hive so cheap again. I think 20 dollars is possible but who knows... very interesting thoughts!

push it up on low volume, dump on it with high. I'd be happy to get something up in the near-twenties sold - but 10+ and life changes significantly for me too. I am hoping that in two years, I can be a whale here :)

@tarazkp if whales started selling there are many others to purchase hive and become whales

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Check out the last post from @hivebuzz:

Hive Power Up Month - Feedback from Day 21

That has given me a more understanding of Hive thanks for this info @tarazkp

Not been long in the crypto business at all. In fact, I just started CUB-ing up recently. I do understand though that my Hive Capital would still be in place. If we happen to go $5, I may sell some and keep those funds somewhere and maybe (who knows) it may dip again and I would be picking it up. If it doesn't dip, I'm gonna hold the ones I have and hope for the best. It's a gamble ...😀

people will post more content, now than before...

Its going amazing what do you think the price of hive is going to reach in next 2 years?

2 years? about 50c - $1.

4 years? $25 -40

That will likely be me. I'm in this for the long term. I retire in 10 years. I think HIVE will make a great place to post travel adventures. So, I have time to grow my stake and audience. Using 50/50 rewards, the HBD payouts could be some decent beer money by then. I would keep staking HIVE rewards.

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