So it will be interesting to see if some of the discussions this week affect HIVE PowerUp Day PUD tomorrow. I actually used the recent price dip last month to invest more and have a big one (big for me) planned. I must say I'm a bit disappointed in some that are choosing constant power downs instead.
This is a small example of a good Solar PowerUp day. I'm pleased when my Solar panels provide a good powerup during the day that can be used later. Like Hive, I expect this investment to prove it's worth and payout over the longer term. This was a good day, producing almost as much as I used for the day and the night. More on that in a later post once I have the full month data.
What I really wanted to focus on was some of the recent discussions by multiple authors around the recent highlighting of folks constantly Powering Down and not contributing to the growth of Hive as much as they could by Powering Up.
For more on those discussions, see these posts and the hundreds of comments:
Are you on HIVE to Invest or Milk the Cash Cow? -- @slobberchops
Power Up.. or No Votes. -- @galenkp
Is it okay to stake the bare minimum HP and withdraw everything else? -- @solominer
The Next Round -- @tarazkp
Top 1000 Hive Stakeholders! Moments of Pleasure, Years of Pain!
-- @azircon
I've thought on this a few days now.
In six years, I've never powered down, so you can see how I struggle understanding this.
I will likely be thinking about it for the next month, but likely start adjusting my votes. Perhaps a few of the folks I like will make some adjustments, perhaps not.
One side of me is extremely disappointed, even feeling betrayed that several of the folks I have regularly given high value votes to, previously delegated to or even provided a Helper UpVote to were in this class of constant, immediate power downs. This includes a few that could easily be giving me nice Dolphin or Orca size votes back in return by now, but return my support of them with a .02 upvote since they've been constantly removing their HP. And I don't mean the outliers of occasional power downs, I mean folks that could be giving back to the community with .30 or .50 upvotes (as well as earning more curation for themselves). Part of me just finds that rude, offensive, and short term greedy on their part.
Another part of me strongly upholds their right to do so and use HIVE however they choose as long as it's not abusive. This doesn't apply to all those that have powered down, that is part of normal operations, but it's another level to become a "taker" and just pull all out immediately all the time without re-investing in the community or in your "friends". I'm one who enjoys supporting others, wants to help the community grow and thrive, and I feel like the takers are just one step above the spammers.
Like some others have voiced, I am really struggling now to give them those big votes, or even upvote their content at all, even though I enjoy their content.
I never really paid much attention to this in the past, in fact, didn't even know how. But now that I've looked, I can't help but be impacted by it. Like several other Orca's have voiced, I will likely be altering my voting on some of these accounts. Yes, they are free to do that, but I am also free on who I choose to vote for and choose the size of those votes.
I know many have scripted this and may have better ways to pull it up.
I thought I'd make it easier for other folks that may not know how to look this up manually...
In Ecency, go to the person's wallet, then scroll down to the "History" section and filter on "Stake Operations"
as shown circled in the screen cap.....
In PeakD, go to the person's wallet, then scroll down to "Transactions" , then filter on "Power Up / Power Down" as shown circled in this cap.
That's it for the rant. I'm open to discussion and to hear the other side, but I'm struggling to see the value in supporting those that are not supporting others.
It's your stake, so it's completely up to you how you use it, and I see no issues with your reasoning, they're valid points. I understand some people rely on Hive for a living in less fortunate areas, but it would be nice to see them power up at least a small portion for a couple of reasons:
They could earn more curation rewards in the long run, which would also allow them to support others in similar situations who are contributing quality content.
In general, I think some people are taking advantage of the situation. They're happy to receive support and cash out, but they're not really contributing to help others on the platform. Morally, that bother me.
I believe the platform would benefit overall if people weren't just cashing everything out. Thankfully, it seems like most people aren't doing this.
Yes, you hit all the key points on the head. Their claim of "making a living" doesn't fly with me. Maybe I don't understand, but I think it is them who are missing the picture. Per your point number one, they would be making more of a living and increasing that living over time if they re-invested at least half of their earnings into HP. They don't have to of course, but their excuse does not make financial sense for more than the shortest term.
!INDEED
Many people seem to lack financial awareness. It’s surprising how many I know who don’t budget, save, or invest. Maybe they’re aware, but just don’t put in the effort
(1/10)
@bostonadventures! @ksteem Totally agrees with your content! so I just sent 1 IDD to your account on behalf of @ksteem.
I think both your thoughts are legitimate. I have said multiple times in my post that I am not judging but I am showing the reality that often lay hidden in plain sight simply ignored. I simply given people a measure of their behavior. I am glad people found value in it. I am at home recovering from a major surgery and had some time at my disposal so I used it this way. My intent was not to point fingers at people.
Mine either, and no fingers were pointed in yours (or my) posts...facts were stated though, and they needed saying. I'm voting differently and will not longer support extractors, I'm sure there'll be some disgruntled ones but they have themselves to blame...they chose their actions as I do for myself with my stake I've powered up for over seven years.
Yes your stake your choice. I think your ask is reasonable. You are requesting and looking for financial commitment towards this ecosystem
Yep, that's right, and adding to the revenue of those who are showing commitment rather than those simply draining it.
Certainly valuable. I don't think anyone took it as finger pointing or used it that way (to my knowledge). It did help wake me up and take a look at some before I blindly voted. I wasn't sure at first, but the more I ponder it, the more it seems to matter to me. Collaboration, team building and friendship along with building the HIVE infrastructure is why I'm here. The finance is of course a nice bonus, but not the sole reason. Given the time and effort some of these folks put into content, I thought theirs the same. Perhaps some of them are just not aware, and will decide to invest in the community. For others that know better and are just taking advantage, then good riddance to bad rubbish.
I appreciate the kind word. I was generally looking for how to bring more value into the ecosystem. I write, I talk to people to make good friends, I play games, I live my life in this ecosystem. This is my home.
I'm sure it will gain you some new (valuable) followers. I'm glad you did and am one of those new followers :) Thanks for all your support into the Hive!
Sometimes I feel that Hive is so depressing because of all the crap and milkers around, and it gets very frustrating that there is little that we can do about it. These posts this week certainly have drummed up a lot of discussions about the health of Hive, and no doubt made some genuine manual curators like yourself more aware of who they're supporting. I'm not sure if and how much impact and lasting effect all this will have, but Hive wasn't built in a day. We've come a long way since 2020 and as long as there are people with enough stake who can create awareness and make noises, we have hope.
Education, awareness, and continual gradual improvement are all anyone can ask for. Expecting perfection is just downright frustrating. I've been able to accept where it is, and my role in just improving a few areas where I have the energy to contribute.
First off, thank you! Reading through your post made me realize you're a supporter of Worldmappin, a community I’m always posting in and where I’ve been getting some nice upvotes too.
About your post, it's a hot topic on the platform right now. I’ve already read most of them and checked out many of the comments. It made me realize how urgent this issue is. I don’t usually look at other accounts' wallet activities, so I wasn’t fully aware of this until I saw Azircon’s chart.
Hmm... since joining Ecency’s Guest Curator team, I’ve been focusing about 30% of my upvotes on content, regardless of the user’s wallet activity. The other 70% goes to users who I think are actively building their HP. Personally, I like rewarding users who are growing their accounts... it’s a great way to support the platform and the community overall. A community that cares about Hive and has strong HP holdings makes the blockchain more secure. If a big investor ever tries to dominate, high HP users can push back. That’s why I’m all about supporting users who are building their HP.
As much as I want to vote purely based on content, I prefer to give more attention to users who are also focused on growing their HP because, in the long run, they’ll be supporting a broader part of the community.
Even though my HP is just above the young Dolphin level, my effective HP is at the Orca level thanks to the delegations I receive. So, it’s in my delegators' best interest that I’m careful about where my upvotes go.
Thanks for your insightful post; it really helped me solidify my thoughts on my voting style moving forward.
Thanks for your thoughtfulness. I think many folks vote largely based on content. I know that is also my normal go to. I've just decided that I'll take a little more time and focus my voting a bit more on those helping to grow the systems vs. just taking. It benefits everyone, including myself.
Given the current state of Hive, it’s rational to support people who are dedicated to growing their accounts. I believe that having more users with Dolphin and Orca-level Hive Power on the platform will be beneficial to the ecosystem.
This is really an interesting and funny paradigm shift. Anti socialist introduced me to this concept like 6 weeks ago and I’ve been noodling on it ever since. I just last week started to implement it and it does feel good to put the most rewards and effort to those people who are going to keep the stake in the account instead of just treating it like a piggy bank. It’s funny because I just scheduled a post on this and I didn’t realize a few others had made this change besides Taraz. I’m glad people are doing it though honestly. There’s lots of people mooching off the ecosystem and we need to send them a message that shit doesn’t fly.
It can definitely be annoying to see that those you curate don't even try to build and just cash it out. Trying to look from their perspective some of them may really need it urgently, I know I take from my liquids from time to time for emergencies and even to invest in other places both in and out of Hive, not sure I've ever powered down for that though. As I'm trying to build my stake to something meaningful. Anyways, like you said everyone has their freedom. It's up to you to vote, and it's up to them to do what they want with it.
My vote is worth 13 cents.. you're welcome to it
lol, and thank you Sir!
I think, all these discussions are indicating the fact that, the middle class like us is getting more organized to support others who wants to grow and does not want to just take away. This is definitely a good sign for the chain.
I have mixed feelings. I think the best thing for Hive (other than more apps) is good quality content. If you choose to withdraw your earnings then that's your decision. Hive's biggest selling point, at least the social media aspect, is that you get paid to post. Kind of worthless if you can't do anything with it. If good authors are "punished" just because of they choose to do something else with what they earn here, then that will just push more people away. Now how many quality authors routinely power down is a question I can't answer.
On the other hand, I appreciate those who support the ecosystem by keeping most of their hive powered up or otherwise invested in the ecosystem and think this is important for the value of hive.
I take sort of a middle road. My strategy has been to upvote the content that I like to encourage more of the same. However, I will typically give lower value votes to those that power down.
It's definitely a hard issue and there are always two sides to the story. I tend to agree with many of the posts here, but then you have to consider the people who are literally trying to live of Hive because their situation or location demands it. I'm definitely going to be looking more closely at the accounts my votes have been going to. Additionally, there are several who have pointed out that some practices done by the larger accounts while not directly powering down is just as detrimental and they see this current "movement" as hypocritical. Whether it is true or not, I think in all fairness it deserves consideration. I also think a lot of people are misinterpreting the situation all together.
Definitely most I think are in the grey area. However in reviewing some of my more common voting patterns with some regulars, I found at least 4-8 that my vote patterns will definitely be changing. I'm not sure I buy into the living off Hive argument, because building at least some HP will actually increase their curation rewards and monies available not only to them but also for others, I think others mentioned how a split model is actually more productive than a full removal in fairly short time. My own account is a prime example of that. Yes, I've made a handful of relatively small fiat investments in buying hive, but the majority was earned from PowerUp and Curation. The more you build, the faster it grows, exponentially so, and in doing so, helps increase the value of votes for others as well. Good discussions, hoping for more information from all sides. Maybe it will result in even more Hive improvements over time as we work through these type things.
This is kind of how I feel too, but I am trying to be a little empathetic. When I get around to looking at my votes I am going to be looking at whether they are powering down and I am also going to be looking at how much of their HP they have delegated away. I've been here since January of 2018 and I haven't powered down at all that I can remember. My account isn't as big as it could be due to moving a lot of my rewards into HBD, but pretty much all of my growth has been organic from posting, commenting, and curating.
You say what needs saying...I wonder who will listen. All that remains is to cease voting on those accounts that extract all those funds and see if that causes them to adjust.
Funny though huh? You support them with chunky votes, they extract it all, and return you a pathetic 0.02 vote...and you keep supporting them.
Time for a change huh?
Yes, I was quite surprised (and actually offended) when I looked at a few of them. It felt like I had been giving them handouts while they had a Tesla hidden in the garage and a secret trust fund... And it's not just their vote to me personally, it's their de-valuing of HIVE overall that really pisses me off when I'm working so hard to help increase it. Arggh.
Meanwhile, I'm the one still looking for a job... Ugh.
Handouts indeed...and I bet they feel entitled to it.
Amend your votes.
I'm now voting people I'd stopped voting on for whatever reason, just because they power up and don't extract more than they power up. I don't care if there's smaller accounts that could "use the support", they should have powered up and built stake and now they'd not be so little huh?
Hive isn't a charity and I'm not inclined to act in charitable ways for people that simply take advantage of it. I totally understand how you feel.
It's clear to see who's abusing it when one checks wallets and the way forward from there is also clear...don't vote on them.
You know this reminded me of a famous YouTube personality who cajoled people into a go fund me campaign to buy himself a laptop to continue making YouTube videos. The response was so overwhelming that he raised $900K and bought himself a new Ferrari. This is true. People did find out later and it was a scandal and removed a lot of support from his channel.
Exactly right. Once the light is on, the cockroaches scatter or get squashed.
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It has two faces always if you ask me. Yeah I do appreciate it a LOT more if someone is doing more towards the system and keeping it all circular (for instance...love the buy a hivefest ticket with hive kind of thing) and that is then again also the cool part about the power of manual votes. We can choose who can give them to. Not liking the vibe on someone? Then they aint getting the vote.
But then again, if one makes an awesome post post with a cool story and awesome shots, puts a lot of work in there and cashes that out. Who am I to judge on it. It was also again about the quality of the post where it all started with blogging and we also shouldn't forget that entirely. (the politics)
For me it is still about human interaction, people you can relate to and the fun of reading others stuff and seeing cool pics. Ofcourse it shouldn't be about milking the system totally, don't get me wrong. But when one decides to use the funds otherwise....I cant always judge
Just my 2 cents (literally ;)))))) )
Always good to hear multiple views. Like you said there are certainly some who are in a grey area and contribute to the platform in multiple ways. I'll still be voting for those folks, (but keeping an eye on them, lol). I may vote less for them until I make up my mind, and will likely stop voting their "borderline" posts that I used to in order to help support and grow them, (why should I help them grow if they don't care to grow themselves?) I will definitely be more choosy about voting their exceptional posts only. But some others are blatantly obvious about it. providing little to no value other than a pretty pic or quick garbage or near garbage post, then reaping immediate rewards from it, and just draining from the HIVE pool. They are free to keep doing that if they want, some I may keep following, some I may not, but they will not be getting my votes unless they are providing value to HIVE rather than "just" draining it. To your point, they are called "rewards" for a reason. Earned, not entitled.
Thats true....and that is cool that there is a choice for us all who we want to vote.
Ps love the solar factory. Looks familiar.. enphase?
Yes, it's enphase, I did a longer write up on it a month or so ago when it was installed. After tomorrow I should have my first full month's worth of reporting to share and will do a longer writeup. Looking forward to hearing how your Hivefest visit goes as well.
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