Hi guys I am Inotia King a youtuber, redditor and gamer who likes theorizing about the story. I actually cobbled together a list of some of my more important theories with respect to the game Genshin Impact and Star Rail that I have been basing all of my newer theories on. I'll be putting more of those up on Hive along with new stuff but if you're impatient I also archived all my theories here. I hope some of you guys are game theorists too. Let's try to figure out these great games together!

(This theory was originally put up on reddit. It's long and there's a ton of ground to cover so I've added a summary at the end.)

Last time I said that I don't think Phanes and Celestia are two different things. My justification then was just that the Enkanomiya lore from the Before the Sun and Moon was internally inconsistent and depictions of Phanes line up with depictions of Celestia.

But wait. There's more. Let's get into it!

When we think of gods in the modern day we don't really consider their parentage. (I mean sure Jesus is God's son but Jesus is also God part of the Holy Trinity so that doesn't really count.) That's because "God" these days is some cosmic entity that has existed since before there even was anything and is the creator of all things. But when we go back in time the story changes. Once we consider polytheistic cultures then even some of the gods have their own creators. In that case it becomes weird if we go by the theories suggesting Phanes is the true god when you realize it had a creator too.

Phanes is a real god in Classic Greek religion and just like in Genshin it is a creator god responsible for the creation of the world. Just like in Genshin it was born from an egg the World Egg and when Phanes was born out of it the top half of the egg became the sky and the bottom became the Earth. (in Genshin it's splitting the universe from the microcosm)

The simple fact that it was born from an egg leads us to asking then: well who laid this egg? It's not as well known but there were old gods that just existed in Greek mythology. Phanes is the son of Chronos the God of Time (that might get a little confusing for Genshin's lore lol) and Ananke the Goddess of Fate. (also maybe confusing so let's go with Inevitability because that's the kind of "fate" they were talking about) Chronos and Ananke are part of a tier in Greek Theogony called the Primordial Deities. They just exist with no parentage. It's only after Phanes is born you get the gods we're probably all familiar with like Zeus.

Now of course to us lowly humans it doesn't really make sense for something to exist when there's nothing there so Socrates and other philosophers tried to logic it out. In one interpretation there's something like a sequence of events. You have the nothing which is then personified as the God Chaos. (kind of defeating the purpose here my dudes) From Chaos you then get the next Primordial Deities including Chronos for time and Ananke for the inevitability of creation.

The reason I'm explaining it this way is because this wouldn't be the first time we Hoyoverse players should have seen this sequence. If you guys play Honkai the nothing of existence is something called the Sea of Quanta an endless sea of entropic potential. Then out of this sea comes the Imaginary Tree a nonsensical thing that sprouted for seemingly no reason like its creation was inevitable. Once the tree came into existence the rivalry was set. The Sea of Quanta doesn't want there to be anything in existence. It likes the fluidity of nothingness. So it constantly tries to reabsorb the Imaginary Tree back into itself. To prevent this the Imaginary Tree grows an absurd amount of new branches and leaves so the sea could never consume it completely.

But in order for the growth to continue outpacing the sea's consumption of the tree it's hypothesized by Otto Apocalypse that the tree prunes itself. The thing it uses to prune its leaves? Otto claims it's the honkai. I'd actually like to debunk that theory because I think there's a better candidate.

I think the honkai is a by-product of this rivalry. In other words it's just entropy. When something is built somewhere down the road it will be destroyed. (One of the main factions in the game is Anti-Entropy. They combat the honkai.) So that's not exactly pruning is it? Instead you need something with more of a directive. So how about a will inside of the Honkai? The Will of the Honkai.

So if the Will of the Honkai is a creation of the Imaginary Tree doesn't that also sound like a god birthed from a Primordial Deity? Something like I dunno Ananke the Goddess of Inevitability creating the God of Creation Phanes? This is also against the Chaos of nothingness that is the Sea of Quanta.

Ok in case I lost some of you guys somewhere up there here's a summary:

• Sea of Quanta (Honkai) = Chaos the Greek Primordial Deity of Nothingness (Genshin)
• Imaginary Tree (Honkai) = Ananke the Greek Primordial Deity of Inevitability (Genshin)
• Will of the Honkai (Honkai) = Phanes the God of Creation son of Ananke the Imaginary Tree (Genshin)

So with that in mind what exactly has been happening in Genshin? To figure that out we go back to Honkai. In that game the basic premise is that the world is plagued with honkai. As soon as technology advances to a certain level honkai erupts and causes tremendous damage setting humanity back. Sometimes they even want to wipe the slate clean and you get the Will of the Honkai influencing specific humans to awaken as Herrschers. Finally the world ends with the arrival of the Herrscher of the End preceded by a series of disasters and Herrscher attacks that overwhelm humanity.

You might think this is the fate for Genshin too right? I've seen so many "the end is nigh" theories about Genshin's story. But you guys subscribing to my theory can relax. I don't think Teyvat's in anywhere near as much danger as the Honkai world. This is because I think Honkai is in the pruned category while Genshin is one of the healthy leaves on the Imaginary Tree. In Honkai Impact 3rd we're already in a world that's been destroyed at least one time. (It turns out it was destroyed multiple times.) Not a few cities or an older civilization. Honkai's past is called the Previous Era because everybody died and the whole world started again with the same people eventually born to the new world. Looking over the lore of Genshin we know that hasn't happened yet.

So while in a dying leaf like Honkai's you have the Will of the Honkai creating Herrschers to destroy the world what are we seeing in Genshin? Phanes doesn't want the world to be destroyed. Instead it's much more delicate. (if chucking a giant rock pillar down like an RKKV can be considered delicate) Instead of wanting the whole world destroyed it just wants to remove specific populations that are proving problematic for it. In other words it's more about control than extermination.

And actually the Will of the Honkai is about control as well. It's just that if your world is failing what exactly is the plan? Prune it. Hit the kill switch to cut down on your losses. The Imaginary Tree loses some dead weight so the energy can be used on universes that still have a chance. But there's a mechanism here that explains how it actually effects its strategy with control: The Herrschers, humans that are given godly powers that defy common sense. In Honkai these powers were just used to destroy but in more recent events we can see that Herrschers don't have to be destructive. Elysia was a "human" born from honkai to be the Herrscher of Humanity, a benevolent being. Our favorite tuna K-423 started out as the revived Herrscher of the Void a tremendous threat to humanity but these days she's become the Herrscher of Flamescion.

Side Note: Flamescion isn't a real word so let's break it down. I don't think I have to explain flame to anybody but what's a scion?

You guys played to the end of the Sumeru Archon Quest right? Right now Kiana's path in the game is to be the world's savior whereas she'd been its destroyer in the past. She is that leaf's only chance at survival and yet she is still a Herrscher. The Will doesn't necessarily want to destroy. It enacts its will through the Herrschers to decide on the ultimate fate of the leaf it presides over.

This role of Kiana's is even more clear when you look at the Chinese name for Herrscher of Flamescion: 薪炎之律者. Unlike the made up word flamescion 薪炎 does actually mean something. There's a phrase in Chinese 薪火相传 which means that the experiences of each generation (the knowledge and arts that were gained, the emotions that were felt) will persist. Kinda adds yet another layer to Everlasting Flames doesn't it?

Ok so hopefully I've established essentially my explanation of the Hoyoverse in Genshin terms and that the Imaginary Tree's Will isn't necessarily malevolent. Then if Phanes isn't really a bad guy why does it keep harming civilizations?

At the end of the day it isn't humans that the Imaginary Tree cares about. It's how far the Sea of Quanta is towards devouring another leaf. In Honkai we can see it's pretty far. Death and destruction is commonplace and Honkai players have been feeding the sea with their tears for years.

But on Teyvat Chaos is just getting started. A long while ago we got the Three Realms Gateway Offering event and it came bundled with new information from Tsumi.

She talked about how the Void Realm was the thing feeding the Abyss Order. In other words the Abyss Order isn't the same thing as the Void itself. Instead they're just using it as their weapon. This could be why the forces of the Abyss weren't affected by the inverted city's fountain that was harming Dainsleif and the hilichurls in the Requiem of Echoing Depths Quest. But it's not exactly a healthy weapon to use as Tsumi calls it intoxicating and addictive.

The Void Realm in Chinese is actually called 虚无界. The key word here is 无 which means without. So it's a realm 界 without 虚 this word. This word is also found in the name 虚数之树 aka the Chinese name for the Imaginary Tree. So the Void Realm is literally the realm devoid of the Imaginary Tree: The Sea of Quanta. The Abyss Order is being fed the powers of the sea which has the goal of destroying all universes created by the Imaginary Tree. And what is the goal of the Abyss Order? We learn it from our sibling.

Hmmmm I should clarify for the localization again. "Destiny" here is just the Heavenly Principles. But we get the idea right? Our sibling and the Abyss Order want to destroy the world. In the quest we get after the one pictured above we learn that the point is to remake it and to return everybody Celestia had punished back into the cycle.

Previously they had the operation Loom of Fate which I had theorized was actually the point of just about all the operations of the main players we've encountered. The Loom of Fate is the Rubedo step of alchemy is the Genesis Pearl and is gnosis in Gnosticism. In terms of the Abyss they hope to destroy the current world built by Celestia under their Heavenly Principles and then reset it. They call it the Loom of Fate because if you can control the Greek Loom of the Fates you essentially control life and death including those poor souls Celestia had punished.

Of course Dainsleif is right in scoffing at their plans because of who I'm suggesting gave them this self-destructive idea: The Sea of Quanta which would love nothing more than to see the imbeciles actually destroy the world themselves.

Anyway since the sea is banking on these guys then we know how far away they are from actually realizing that goal hence why I believe Genshin's world is a healthy leaf compared to Honkai's and why Genshin's Will of the Honkai, Phanes isn't ready to give up on it yet. Instead what has it been doing? It punishes for forbidden knowledge. Like the forbidden knowledge that comes from the very bottom of the Abyss.

Remember when the Sustainer tells us "the arrogation of mankind is at an end?" Yeah this incident took place during the Cataclysm of Khaenri'ah's destruction. We know that's also when Rhinedottir attacked and set off her "negredo" step to "burn away the impurities" of the world.

Side Note:

Btw if I still haven't convinced you there's one last little detail. Much of Greece's Pantheon actually comes from older religions. For example our God of Time Istaroth is an amalgamation of Ishtar and Astaroth but they are both the same god. Ishtar is the God of Love and War in Babylonian religion who later was adopted by the Phoenicians as Astarte and then by Greece as Aphrodite. Astaroth comes from the Jewish translation of Astarte into Ashtoret. Anyway Phanes is in this bubble too. It came from the Zoroastrian Mithra.
And in Zoroastrianism Mithra is a God of Light and Contracts who oversees the people of the world and ultimately judges them when they die. So if we take that more broadly doesn't that also sound like pruning? Instead of judging humans, Genshin's Phanes and Honkai's Will are overseeing universes and judging whether or not they deserve a chance to thrive.
Finally if Zoroastrian Mithra isn't even enough to convince you guys how about Gnostic Mithra? You see Mithra appears in Gnosticism too and is said to have saved the first human from the darkness. (like the darkness of nothingness that is Chaos the Sea of Quanta) Alternatively Gnostic Mithra is said to have established structure to liberate Light which was lost by the downfall of man. (something similar to the control against forbidden knowledge by Phanes against the unbridled ambitions of humanity)

Alright fine so then what exactly can we even do when you have gods above gods engaging in an endless war far beyond us? I mean at this point a battle between creation and destruction is well above our pay grade right?

Not necessarily. That's where the "Genesis Pearl" and "Rubedo" and "Loom of Fate" come into play. Previously I claimed that it would fall onto our shoulders and I said this would be the case because everybody else attempting this will fall short.

There's actually a set of plans that each of the major players in this game is undertaking. There's no official names for these of course so I decided to make them up. It was actually funny because we have Three Realms and the plans actually line up very well with them so that's what I went with.

The Void Plan (for the Void Realm) I already talked about. This is the misguided belief of the Abyss Order and by extension our sibling that they need to destroy Teyvat and force everything back into the Ley Lines to be reborn in the next cycle. This plan does actually have merit but it's the fact that they're being manipulated by Chaos that makes this the Void Plan and will lead to the worst possible outcome which is the obliteration of the world.

So if I'm saying that being reborn into a new cycle isn't all that bad doesn't that mean it could be its own plan? And in fact it is: the Human Plan. In Zhongli's Character Quest we leave off with Zhongli hoping that we'll act as a record of the events of Teyvat. That's because he realizes that even if he etched the history of Teyvat into stone the stones would eventually erode and those records would be lost. Then if you play Yae Miko's Character Quest (and also check out some of her Voice-Overs) she essentially means for us to do the same thing only she has us write down our story, hiring us as new light novel writers. This is because while anybody can keep a record she hopes to properly remember them. But I'll let Yae tell you herself:

Even supernatural beings eventually pass away, including gods. It's a terrible shame when their tales are lost to time along with them, never to be remembered again. The problem is, only those with first-class writing and composition skills are qualified to commit these stories to paper. If there is no qualified writing talent in the world, we must cultivate it... Yes, home-grown writers are what we need, capable of adequately capturing these stories with the written word.

Regardless of how they want to get it done it's pretty clear the point is that this serves as a backup plan. If the "Herrscher of the End" happens on Teyvat and this becomes a Previous Era the Archons hope to preserve as much as possible in the new era. (including themselves btw, see Rukkhadevata) Also so far we're committed to this goal. In the Sumeru Interlude Quest we name ourselves the record-keeper and we refer to ourselves as "witness" in the Fontaine Archon Quest.

But what if that's not good enough? What if you want to do better than just survive? What if you want to bring down the oppressive system of Phanes and its Heavenly Principles to give humanity some agency in its own destiny?

And that's the Light Plan. Rhinedottir wants to attain rubedo to reach the power of the gods in order to defy them. The Tsaritsa wants to collect the Gnoses in an attempt to rebuild them back into their original form, the Third Descender which would be equal to Phanes. The Fatui are attempting to rely only on the power of human ingenuity and want to remake the world devoid of gods.

Ok so what have we learned:

• Phanes should only be the First Descender and not related to the Gnostic true god because it has its own creator.
• Instead the true primordial gods that existed by default were Chaos and Ananke who could then be Genshin's versions of the Sea of Quanta and Imaginary Tree.
• As such Phanes may be Genshin's version of the Will of the Honkai or Cocoon of Finality which works as an agent of the Imaginary Tree to "prune" its leaves and keep it alive so the Sea of Quanta can't fully consume it.
• Ultimately these agents of the Imaginary Tree desire control. In universes where the sea is winning the agents try to reset the world and have it try again and if it should fail too often then it will prune it. In universes like Genshin's however it tries to minimize the damage caused by the sea and if possible shelter the universe from the sea's influence.
• As seen in Honkai Impact 3rd, Kiana had been the Herrscher of the End multiple times to reset the Honkai universe. But in the most recent era she took control of the Cocoon of Finality and is working to eradicate just the honkai (entropy) keeping the universe safe.
• The Imaginary Tree doesn't actually care about the humans caught in the middle of this struggle. So long as the universes remain healthy it will survive and that could be accomplished with or without nurturing humanity.
• But in Teyvat the sea hasn't gotten very far yet. It is the Void Realm which relatively recently amassed its forces to destroy Teyvat, the Abyss Order.
• The Abyss Order though believes they are simply opposing the unreasonable control of Phanes and resetting the world to return all those cursed by Phanes back into the natural cycle.
• The control Phanes exerts is shown through the Heavenly Principles. It restricts "forbidden knowledge" and some of this is knowledge about the Abyss, the Void Realm.
• The factions within Genshin are all working on different plans towards the same goal of undermining the Heavenly Principles. These can be categorized into three types which thematically relate to the three realms noted in Genshin's lore.
• The "Void Plan" is the Abyss Order's plan which is the misguided attempt to force everyone back into the natural cycle before resetting the world.
• The "Human Plan" is more like a backup plan. Similar to the Abyss, Zhongli and Yae Miko hope to maintain a record of the world's history which when returned to Irminsul will preserve that information to be reborn again in the next era.
• Finally the most productive plan is the "Light Plan." Rhinedottir is attempting to attain rubedo. The Tsaritsa is collecting the Gnoses which are pieces of a Descender's body to create a vessel at the same power level as Phanes. Her Fatui are trying to rely only on human power and ingenuity to create a world devoid of gods.

But I claimed these plans are all going to fall short. Rhinedottir's quest for Rubedo will stop at Citrinitas with Albedo becoming a monster that will threaten Mondstadt. The Fatui might be advancing in human technology but not exactly in an out of the box way. For example Pantalone wants to control Mora which is a creation of an Archon using the power of Celestia. The Delusions are a facsimile of the Celestia given Visions. And while it might not seem like it even the Tsaritsa's plan is flawed. I don't think Light is the Eighth Element.

So that's where we come in. And it'll be us that attain the true Eighth Element of Gnosis, the Loom of Fate, Rubedo what have you. And what that is and what we'll do with it, I'll get to next time.

Topic originally created on December 24th, 2022.