Entitlement vs Entitlement

in GEMS4 years ago (edited)

Hello, Hivers,
Today I am responding to a prop by @bluemist on the state of entitlement on
#Hive

When I learned about this invite for suggestions, I felt motivated to participate as I believe that everything related to making us (Hive) better is almost mandatory.

untitled 1.png

Before we get started, I want to make a distinction between two definitions of entitlement according to the Cambridge Dictionary;

  1. Something that you have a right to do or have, or the right to do or have something

and

  1. the feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are. E.g man entitlement

Now, I am not sure which of the two Bluemist was referring to. But I will be referring to the first definition: the right to do and to have

From what I understand, the main discussion here is curation rewards, which are part of our voting system. As such, we are talking about a political system

As in any political system, voters (curators) have the right to choose what to vote for and authors have the right to create what they want.

With that in mind, one may say that both curators and content creators entered into a contract with Hive, which granted them such rights.

This is the kind of entitlement we should always have in mind. Because we should not confuse entitlement with deserving. These are two different concepts, even though they are related to each other.

And this is where the second definition comes to place: feeling we are entitled to be rewarded because we deserve it.

But in reality that is not what we agree to when we enter Hive. It is just a premise.

Rules were set and we accepted them.

The criteria used for voting is not up to authors, even if they deserve the vote, it is up to curators and curators only. So we should expect not to expect a vote based on content itself.

Same thing happens backwards. Curators are not entitled to determine the kind of content authors create. They are only entitled to choose among creations. So we should not expect authors to create what we would like. It's not part of the agreement.

This bring me to another thought:

Curators are nothing else than investors

The same principles apply here:
Investors are entitled to invest in what they want to invest, and producers are entitled to produce what they want to produce.

If for example an investor chooses to invest in the Coca-Cola soda, even though it is proven to be toxic, that is their choice. They are probably not investing in the product (content), they are investing in the brand (author). And that is perfectly natural and valid. Same happens with authors, who are entitled to keep producing Coca-Cola if that is what they want. We may not like this but that's the way it is.

So discussing content when referring to the voting system can be useless from the perspective of politics.

So...what can we do?

We cannot change a political system entirely, but we can go around it. So I would suggest the only thing I can think of as someone who does not know about the technical aspects of this platform:

Commenting Power

One of the features on Hive we can use to give power to content is comments

I would like to start with quoting @roadstories, who made interesting remarks on the fact that comments should be as important as publications.

I can remember that a comment is also taken as a publication, I think this is the best way to express yourself, directly in the publication and not make a new one…
...I have never seen a comment on the trends, why? if you are supposed to do the same as a "new post" format only you don't have tags or title"

Perhaps empowering comments could be a good idea to motivate people to make comments once they learn that their comment is as valuable as their original posts. One way to achieve this could be by adding a special amount to quality meaningful comments and include the other features like tags and titles as Roadstories suggests.

Another option could be setting goals for commenting. Perhaps reaching a number of comments to earn badges and rewards. These comments would be assessed by qualified evaluators. If this activity becomes trending, we will eventually see people more interested in commenting than in voting. We will enjoy the real feedback, see where we are at in terms of quality or topics, and also have the opportunity to explain ourselves, plus the benefit of the possibility of getting rewards in the process.


In regards to people qualified and dedicated to assess comments, we already have an example of this:

@elcomentador (the commentator) has started a project by opening an account solely aimed at commenting and curating comments. In fact, he specifically states that he would not be curating content publications.

He also established a set of rules for commenting which include a reasonable minimum of words; positive feedback, use of appropriate language which would make people respond respectfully (though unfortunately it is always up to users to do otherwise, but they would not be eligible to be curated); he also mentions quotations, additional information and mentioning other Hivers.

I find this last feature to be most interesting because it would get other users involved directly into a discussion or debate, which they probably would not do so quickly by finding the post by themselves.

I believe that emulating this project and having multiple accounts doing the same thing will make commenting more valuable.


I also believe that rather than commenting, the key word here is interaction, which ultimately leads to engagement

Engagement is also key to grow, not only for Hivers themselves, but for Hive. The more people make comments, the more they connect to others, the more they engage, and engagement between Hivers would lead to team work; I have seen that one of the most attractive topics are the ones related to the improvement of Hive.

By brainstorming together, we would have better ideas and more power for making changes, because there is always strength in numbers, to boost Hive to the outside world, which I believe is necessary for growth.


I cannot say I agree with Roadstories when referring to curators as employers, making the content creators the employees. Certainly, thanks to curators, content creators receive rewards, and that is like having a salary as per this analogy. But if we look at content creation as a job, we would be saying that we create content to satisfy curators.

I do not believe that is the case, or at least it shouldn't be, in my opinion.

Hivers create content for a variety of reasons besides getting rewards.

Some Hivers do it just for their desire to share their passions and talents, others to make their business, organizations or networks grow, and rewards are not their primary goal.

Others have their own show or podcast they share through spaces like 3Speak. Some would get great rewards, but others won't. Despite this,they keep doing it because their main goal is to be seen or heard.

Others do it to help the community, to encourage the crypto market, even to have their own tokens like LEO and make them grow.

As for me, I mostly share my passion. I write short stories and I have seen how literature is only a trend within the communities of writers. You usually don't get to see there high curation rewards as other communities that are perhaps more popular.

Most of the writers support each other but a great number of them are Hivers who do not have much Voting Power yet, like myself. So until the community grows in terms of VP, we will receive low rewards for a while. For example, I have gotten between 100 and 500 upvotes in my posts, but only a few got high rewards, as opposed to the 3 Hive tokes I've earned in some cases. But not to worry, I love getting hearts ;)

So satisfying curators per se, is not for me. I rather create the quality content I am passionate about and see who likes it, so I can build an audience.

Personally, I'm not sitting around waiting for whales, nor chasing them. Simply because that is not the way it is supposed to work. And also because I did not come to Hive to have a "boss".

Yes, and I quote, "I came for the money…
but stay for the community

In my case it has been the community of writers where I feel I can grow. So I'll continue to be part of it regardless of the rewards I get.

Don't get me wrong, I do like money, as any other Hiver, or human being, as it is a means to improve our quality of life.

But I decided to be patient and build my networks over time, as the large marine species did. We have got to respect that.

Fortunately, I make a good living with what I do, but Hive has given me the space and encouragement I needed to do what I love and get paid for it.

I'm planning to write a book someday, sell it and ultimately make a living with it and take a long break from my career.

I have the opportunity here not just to build an audience but to learn about the literature world. The Ink Well community, for instance, will start a school that will include webinars and assessments to learn how to write a novel. They are finding ways to make their community on Hive a go to destination for outsiders who love literature, and would hopefully become potential Hivers.


Unfortunately, this post is getting too long, and even though I would like to extend my remarks, I guess I will leave them for another time.

So I would like to conclude by referring to the previous remark.

What do I think we need to change for us to improve?

Our behavior

Let us go to basics and stop looking at Hive as a place for competition between ourselves looking to please our bosses

I believe that sometimes we lose perspective of the true spirit of the platform, and that is to create, build and grow., not only our crypto but ourselves. And to generate as many possibilities as we can.

If Hive was created to make people grow in many different ways, the only competition possible is with ourselves. To try to be better, to improve the quality of our work, to connect to others. So we should compete together with the outside world, so we can ultimately become stronger.

And we are also losing perspective of one of the reasons we are here. And that is...

TO HAVE FUN!.

If we get frustrated in the process for such things, and we stop having fun, then why do it in the first place?

I would like to thank Bluemist for opening a space for this discussion, and for the work put into our community. I would also like to thank all the Hivers out there who are making their best efforts to make our community better.

Hive is like a second home to me. And I'm here to stay and to contribute in the ways that I can.

Thank you for reading.

#hiveentitlement

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I think that making upvotes worth their real theoretical value for vote counts under $5.00 would go a long way towards encouraging more comments. The rewards curve currently favors vote counts higher than $5.00 and penalizes those under. So, what do people do? They pile on the higher votes counts in an effort to maximize returns and they avoid low vote counts like the plague.

Since comments by nature are almost always going to get lower vote counts, they don’t get many upvotes, and that, of course, discourages comments to begin with. If we want to encourage comments, the reward schedule needs to change to one that creates incentives to upvote them, and not disincentives.

I really like your reflection on what entitlement really is BTW and the dichotomy drawn between curators and authors. No doubt about it, everyone’s agreed to previously established rules!

Thank you for your comment and illustrative affirmation.
I actually still haven't quite understood the voting curve and schedule of votes, as well as the reasons why it was set that way.

But you're right. This promotes a behavior that no only discourage people to commenting, but also affects people who produce quality posts but
are starting on Hive and haven't got much visibility yet to get high rewards. The worst consequence is that good content creators would ultimately leave the platform.

I agree with you when saying

If we want to encourage comments, the reward schedule needs to change to one that creates incentives to upvote them, and not disincentives

Incentives can be created in a variety of ways. I'm sure and hopeful that our experts can come up with them.

When discussing an issue, I usually look up for the key concepts in order to build an opinion. In this case was entitlement, which got me to reflect on that. Because even though I believe in this, I did feel discouraged at first, but then decided to enjoy the ride regardless of other people's attention or support. But then I realized that interaction is key to thrive on Hive, and with that change of perspective I've gotten better results.

Thank you again for your input. It was definitely rewarding 😉

I'm no expert either on curation rewards and I always reserve the right to be wrong. 😂

But I really liked the distinction you drew. More often than not we get confused by symantics, especially in the euphemistic world we live in. In order to make good decisions, we need the best understanding of the matter that we can get, and if content creators think they have the right to be upvoted while curators think they have the right to decide on content, then we are the blind leading the blind. Good job fleshing out that misunderstood and misleading concept of entitlement.

"The blind leading the blind" That should have been my title! 😂

Thank you.

A hug.

Curators are nothing else than investors.

Long term investors does curate with long term mindset.

The problem is most people don’t know how to invest

I couldn't agree more.

Thank you for this reflection :)

Vaya! Pasa el tiempo y con el aumenta el estímulo por hacer,crear y divertirse... Tu post me da más información sobre el sistema y sus cimientos, coincido con tu visión sobre las observaciones que haces sobre los curadores y la razón del porque muchos estamos acá... Más allá del dinero, que obvio es necesario, es la acción espiritual que te llena e inspira. Hive para muchos es un espacio virtual de relax y tranquilidad.
Apuesto a que el sistema siga mejorando en pro de quienes hacen vida en hive, y que los comentarios que se realizan formen parte de la curación, ya que un like no implica una opinión con profundidad...
Gracias!

Gracias a ti por pasar por aquí y contribuir con tu opinión. Es un ejemplo de lo importante que es interactuar :)


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Me complace ver que esta iniciativa de comentar ha calado en la mente y corazón de muchos bloggers. Quizá suene utópico lo que escribes de que puede que llegue el día en que "veremos personas más interesadas en comentar que en votar", no creo que llegue, y tampoco sería rentable, porque ¿y las recompensas? Lo que sí sería ideal es ver que por cada voto exista un comentario.
Por otro lado esas propuestas que mencionas son excelentes: "establecer metas para comentar. Quizás llegando a una serie de comentarios para ganar insignias y recompensas". Sería magnífico obtener una insignia por ser un Comentador de Élite, como yo les llamo. Ojalá podamos llegar un día a eso, porque también cito algo que me gustó: "vine por el dinero, pero me quedo por la comunidad". Uff, sé que a muchos les ha pasado eso acá.
Gracias por compartir tan espléndida publicación. Un abrazo.

@garybilbao

Sí. Definitivamente las recompensas juegan un papel importante al decidirnos por cualquiera de las opciones que existen en Hive para ser recompensado, y estas pueden ser muchas. Así que se le da peso a lo que más vale, o mejor dicho, a lo que se le da más valor.

Ser un comentador de Élite puede ser también un incentivo. Ya el hecho de formar parte de un grupo que ayude a mejorar la plataforma, vale. ¿Y las otras recompensas? Las desconozco aún jeje, ilústrame 😉

Pero más allá de cualquier recompensa económica, la interacción es importante para avanzar, como ya lo he dicho, porque lleva al trabajo en equipo y ese es un gran incentivo para mí.

Gracias por este comentario significativo y por todo el trabajo que estás haciendo. Sigue así y cuenta con mi apoyo 😊

Un abrazo.

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You distributed more than 500 upvotes. Your next target is to reach 600 upvotes.

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The more encouragement that can be given to people to curtate and comment the better.

Part of the problem of a monitised system is that those that get it, the notion that you get paid for curating and possibly if you comment your comment will also get upvioted, is that a lot of people give one liners, which although are an engagement of sorts are not really an engagement.

I mentioned in my latest Russells Chatter that, content crators are creating to engage in discussion, why else would they be putting their opinions, ideas and information out there, so as curators of that content we should also be engaging in the discussion.

If we upvote a post, then engage with the post.

One of the pitfalls of curation trails is that people join them because they will increase their curation rewards without actually having to engage.

As you have seen I offer extra incentive reqwards for engagement, not just upvotes, trying to encourage people to actually go into a post and comment on the post, even if some of them are just answer this question. at least it gets people engaged.
I average aroumd 20 engagements a post these days which is quite good when you look at others, having said that I can average around 75 upvotes a post, this does show the inequity in curation and engagement.

I also think that those that create for creation sake and do not actually have anything of great value, eg , posts that just say, Hi It is me etc, will not get the engagement that other posts of quality content will get.

Again I see groups , who's sole purpose is to curate each others posts.
eg a curation trail is set up amongst a large group of people, every person in the group becomes a member of the trail. then no matter whatthey post, the whole group upvotes, as the groups curation rewards increase their voting power increases and thus some posts with absolutely no engagement but a swag of upvotes gets a good reward.

This to me seems outside of the ethos of what the Blockchain platforms are about, but in a decentralised world actaully gains momentum

But back to your point, Curators will curate what they believe, subjectively, is worth curating, and content creators will create what they believe, subjectively is worrth creating.

Because these contents and contexts are subjective, the horse will not necessarily drink from the trough it is led to :)

Having an expectation of your content being liked by others is developing an expectation that most likely will not be met, because if the content is created for the expectations of others then it is not coming from the self and will most likely refolect that

Thank you for reading and for your feedback.

Yes. Instead of giving so much power to expectations, we should just simply focus on engagement so we have better chances of meeting our expectations.

You know. We have been watched and heard hehe. Kidding. Actually the project if El Comentador have been promoted. I just learned about the Hive Comment Initiative by @theycallmedan on precisely what we have been discussing.

I think it will be interesting if you participate because the work you have done is an example of how we can contribute to engagement.

Thank you, and see you around 😉