So I'm moving back to Thailand soon (sorry Vietnam!)

in ASEAN HIVE COMMUNITY4 years ago

I had planned on this being a one-way trip when I moved to Vietnam and at least for now I don't have any rock-solid plans to go anytime soon. However, I have gotten the ball rolling, so to speak on getting a long-term visa for Thailand and likely using it, sometime in the next 6 months.

This was a fun little experiment that mostly began out of necessity, but while I am not 100% sure just yet - I am more than likely going to move back to Thailand before the end of the year and probably stay there too. There are many reasons why this is the case.


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Let's see if I can keep this as brief as possible even though it could easily be a 4000 word blog-entry about why I am doing this. I'll just focus on the major factors.

Thailand is being "cool" about their visas now

The number 1 reason why I ever left Thailand had nothing to do with me disliking the country. It is quite the opposite actually. I love that country and even though I like certain regions better than others and the country isn't without its hassles (honestly, what country doesn't have some hassles?) I generally spent every day in that country very happy that I lived there.

The reason why I left was because they were being outright "jerks" about the visas. The objective of Immigration seemed to be to NOT let you stay regardless of your circumstances or even how much money you had (obviously the super-duper-rich were exempt from this, but that is now what i am at all.) You would be treated as though you were scamming the system by default and both Immigration and the Labour Department would treat you like a criminal even though you had done everything by the book the entire time you lived there.

I moved to Vietnam because at the time, it was a place that was welcoming people with open arms especially if you are American - and I am. Covid has changed a lot of this: Thailand is one of the most reliant on tourism countries in the world for their overall GDP and the complete lack of tourism thanks to the virus so deadly you have to be tested in order to know you have it has resulted in massive losses and unemployment for Thailand. Therefore, they are basically begging people to come there now and this was something I predicted a long time ago.

I have recently found out that I can, for a relatively low price, secure a no nonsense 1-year renewable visa that at least for now seems to be capable of being renewed indefinitely. I am applying for it now and if it goes through as I have been promised it will, the stamp will have a 6 month or 12 month validity (meaning I have to go there initially in that time-frame.) I intend to do exactly that.


Vietnam is likely going to go in and out of lockdown for the foreseeable future


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Depending on your perspective, Vietnam has handled the pandemic better than most places but now we are starting to see a reversal of fortune as far as all of that is concerned. I am not an expert and not interested in a debate on this but our complete lack of lockdowns in the past year (for the most part) may have actually just delayed the inevitable and while a lot of the rest of the world is starting to open back up again, it is starting to seem as though Vietnam has just begun to do what all of you have already been going through for the past year or more.

I don't really mind not being able to go to places that I took for granted before but when a "recent spike" - which means that there was just more than zero cases, happened, they basically locked down the entire country. From insider information that I have heard that honestly, is just a bunch of rumors, the plan is to keep this going and I am in the camp of believing that this virus cannot be stopped, only delayed. I think that things are going to get worse before they get better here.


I can speak Thai, I know almost zero Vietnamese

A lot of expats never learn the language of any country they move to and for the most part you can get away with this. For me though, I have seen both sides of the fence in this situation and I can say from experience that the entire process of living overseas is definitely enhanced if you can speak the local language. This should be obvious but learning a language, especially tonal ones like Thai and Vietnamese, is extremely difficult. Because I am older now I just don't think I have it in me to learn another one and am not going to.

Ignorance truly is bliss when it comes to this factor because people who never were able to communicate in a local language over in this part of the world don't really know how much better life is when you can talk to everyone. Outside of "hello, thank you, and one more beer" I don't know how to say anything in Vietnamese. I once got into a debate with a police officer in Thailand and won. That's how well I speak Thai and while I don't make a habit of getting into discussions with police officers in either country, being able to do so certainly has its advantages.

It took me a decade to reach that level of proficiency in Thai and I'm not going to do it again. Sorry Vietnam but your language is too difficult!


Strange things are afoot with Vietnam visas at the moment


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I don't know if it was because a massive number of people decided to do just like I did and change from Thailand to Vietnam a year an a half ago when visa procedures were getting out of control in Thailand and all moved to Vietnam at the same time - but the friendly, easy, and cheap visas that were the envy of the expat community in South East Asia in Vietnam are slowly but surely disappearing. Multiple people I know are having their visas scrutinized and many people are being told that they have to "go back to their home countries soon." This has not yet happened to me but I don't want to find myself in a similar situation. I have zero desire to move back to my "home country." I have not lived in the United States for nearly 20 years. I have a USA passport but don't really consider it to be my home anymore.


This is not a great place to have a dog

Let me refine that: Everywhere is a great place to have a dog if you love dogs as much as I do. The city that I live in here in Vietnam is just not conducive to doing the things that I want to do with my dog such as enjoying some daily exercise outdoors.

I detailed this in a recent post and for the most part we spend an inordinate amount of time indoors because I am not allowed to bring her anywhere public. There is a ban on dogs, leashed or not, in most public areas. I want more for her than just walking down the sidewalk sniffing what little foliage exists in those environments. Thailand was much better in this regard.


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We were reprimanded and kicked off the beach shortly after I took this photo which was just ridiculous because as you can see there is literally no one else around

So if everything goes according to plan I will be back in Thailand by the end of this year, perhaps earlier. Of course I am expecting some "hiccups" along the way because even though they have eased the restrictions as far as visas are concerned in Thailand they still seem to really love paperwork over there and I am expecting to have some problems.

I am happy that I decided to broaden my horizons and move to Vietnam for a time but honestly, If i could click my ruby slippers together and magically be back in any of the cities I lived at in Thailand right now, I would do so.

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 4 years ago  

Let us know if you need any help getting your dog in with you once your visa is approved, we have a lot of connections with this sort of thing. Visas are a pain, aren't they?

 4 years ago  

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 4 years ago  

I may need to take you up on that. Thanks for the offer!

 4 years ago  

I'm sorry to hear about the visa rule that VN Govt changing now..!!! I have just heard from some of my friends...:(( Some prepare leaving the country. Sad.
I've been to Thailand and Philippines. Those seems easier with the visa extension. I don't understand why our authority makes it complicated and difficult..!! I don't also want to understand as I'm going to move overseas after the pandemic 🙂

I hope you're having a good time in Vietnam now. Thailand is a great country!!

 4 years ago  

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 4 years ago  

I would like to stay here a bit longer. You and I have never even met and that is a pity. I just don't like the idea of getting the "red stamp" on my next extension because I don't think I can get my affairs in order in the mere 2 weeks that most people would have left after they get their passports back from the agents.

At the moment I don't even have my passport, just a photo from the agent showing my extension is "all clear" for now. I'm not going to wait until it isn't "all clear" before I prepare for potential upcoming problems though.

Wow, I have to admit, I am actually a little surprised by this, but it makes a lot of sense. Especially if Thailand is starting to be a little less crazy about their VISA policy. I know that was the big reason you moved in the first place. The biggest question is will you move back to Chiang Mai and will you start a new bowling league there? Maybe you will just hook back up with the HHH group! I am really happy for you, you seemed to like it there, though you seem to make the best of wherever you are. I hope it all works out for you. I took my wife to the Thai place we have near us the other day. She really enjoyed it. I know it is probably nothing like the authentic thing!

 4 years ago  

At the moment the moving process is complicated as you would expect. I have every intention of getting back up to Chiang Mai. That was my favorite place that I have lived in the past 15 years and really enjoy everything about that place other than the smog season.

Best of luck with that. Hopefully everything falls into place!

 4 years ago  

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The language issue is a killer. I'd love to move to Vietnam, but I know I'd never be able to learn the language. I think South America is my only option. I can do Spanish, but the tonal languages are beyond the capabilities of my mouth and brain.

 4 years ago  

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 4 years ago  

the tonal languages are beyond the capabilities of my mouth and brain.

Honestly, they are beyond mine as well... This is why it took me a decade to learn it and I am still not completely fluent. A 4th grader could confuse me if they wanted to and I am sure I pronounce things incorrectly.

I wonder how a non native can beat a native at an argument in their own language, and a police officer at that! The language barrier is the biggest flag for me; Thailand has more to offer from where I stand

 4 years ago  

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 4 years ago  

I think the only reason why I "won" was because he was expecting that since I am a foreigner that I wouldn't speak any Thai and was a bit dazzled that I could hold down a conversation with him. I think that he let me win just because I was going to be more trouble than it was worth when he could just move on to the next person and get an easy payout without the hassle.

 4 years ago  

Visa situations change so rapidly in Southeast Asia, and that is my only real burden there when it comes to staying long-term. We are still on a trajectory for the USA, trying to imagine how we will make an exciting life there similar to the one we had in Cambodia.

More and more we are leaning towards buying a used sailboat, nothing capable of crossing any oceans, but a coastal cruiser we could live aboard. The three years it takes for my family to get their passports could be spent mastering the art of sailing and developing a greater passive income so that we could live on the boat full-time.

Ideally if this dream works out, we could put the boat on a trailer and send it to Cambodia when it becomes possible to return. The business opportunities of having a sailboat in Cambodia are endless, so at least we have something to dream about. We're also contemplating a run at the Great Loop in the USA if we could find sponsors.

Good luck making it back to Thailand, I'd still love to see that Thai village in the north of Vietnam if you get a chance to go there before you leave.

 4 years ago  

You are one of the few people that I can talk to that remembers the "glory days" of easy visas in basically every country in SEA. The crazy thing is that once they started tinkering with the rules, the populations started to suffer rather than thrive.

The old saying goes "if it isn't broken, the government will fix it until it is" and I really feel as though the visas and tourism industries in all SEA countries were doing very well until the government started meddling and changing everything every couple of months.

I know people that are legally married to people in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos and even have children there but even they have difficulty maintaining visas. It's just backwards.

Yup! Life is very interesting and dynamic! Good thinking out the long term stuff. On the whole, I think Thailand would be quite a safe place for the next two years when all crazy things will brake lose. The future scenario is not going to be pretty at all in most places.

One thing though, don’t go to big cities! Things are going to be beyond our imaginations. I am planing my escape at the moment! It’s life changing experience for me now, but it will be shocking for most people who are not prepared. Any way, still praying for some miracle!

Good luck.

 4 years ago  

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 4 years ago  

What a pity to hear so! However Thailand is good to move back as you can speak Thai. I wish you all the best there ☘️

 4 years ago  

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May your upcoming time passes well in peace! best wishes!

 4 years ago  

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Thank you for these tokens 😊 these kind of supportive step for a new user are helpful and motivated to stay more active

 4 years ago  
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