Listening to feedback regarding HBD APR (and Posting Rewards)

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Hey all,

I think my latest post became one of the most commented posts I've ever shared on the chain. Thank you all for your inputs.

First of all, I'd like to address a few things I read throughout the day.

Witnesses bad! They coordinate following one guy creating centralization!

Not really, that's not the case. I first put forward my motion about 4 months ago. It has been probably discussed a million times since then and even before.

HBD interest doesn't affect inflation

Remember, HBD Interest is completely separated from Hive inflation. So things like posting rewards, curation rewards, DHF, passive Hive Power inflation, witness rewards etc. All come from a pre-determined (at chain start) inflation rate that is decreasing over time. However, HBD Interest is printed out of thin air.

When we first increased HBD APR to 20% (with a staggered increase) we were thinking of competing with LUNA, who offered similar rates for USDT/C we all probably know what happened to LUNA, but that's a topic for another day. On top of that, BTC was quite high, Hive was close or over >$1 so we were golden! Lets take this opportunity.

However, now it is not like that. The market has gone down significantly since then with Hive, as of now, being traded at about $0.29 per HIVE. Does this mean we cannot afford 20% APR? If we had our old debt ceiling, probably. But not now since the debt ceiling has been increased a while back. But please don't forget that for every HBD there has to be HIVE in the background "backing it" since HBD is "Hive-backed Dollar" after all.

But reading your comments, I believe it is nice people gathered around to share their ideas, feedback and potential future suggestions. We can always find more uses for Hive and HBD both on-chain and off-chain (or side-chains). Time to go back to drawing board with more ideas :)

Lower HBD interest but increase posting rewards

That is not possible due to the explanation above.

Side note: Posting rewards

As I mentioned in my previous post, about reducing posting rewards, that is NOT consensus. It is an idea a few witnesses were mulling about with nothing being set in stone, nothing is being changed and further discussion is of course needed. While it is easy to change HBD APR with just a few parameters, any major change such as posting rewards would require a hard fork, which necessitates supermajority approval in the first place.

So why did you change your HBD APR?

I have increased my HBD APR from 12% to 15%, I believe it is a nice middle ground to wait on until we have filled our drawing board a bit more.

Thanks, I've written enough for this month, see you on my next development update or the next controversial post :)

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To tell you the truth, this whole debate seems absurd and arbitrary to me... 20% APR in HBD hasn't hurt us at all and I don't see it going to do it... Why change things when they are going well?
I also don't understand why 15% is better than 20%.
The only thing that is needed in HIVE is more marketing and less touching the parameters of a blockchain that works like a Swiss clock. And I'm sorry, I also do not have a solution to improve the marketing of this project since I am not a professional in this regard. Still, I hope that, at some point, someone is and does it but for this, we need more visibility and more exchanges that include HIVE and HBD.

The "Hurt" comes from less people holding HP and therefore less people to vote within the Governace.

Right now Governace is sacrified for fast profit. Lowering the HBD Apr might people to stake more HP and join in the Governace :D

I don't understand. Why do we need to fix something that is not broken?

HBD doesn't even have utility yet, other than the 20% APR.

Your assumption is this:

Lowering the HBD Apr might people to stake more HP and join in the Governace

But my gut feeling says people will just cash out their HBD to fiat currency HBD -> HIVE -> USD
rather than power up HBD -> HIVE -> HP

people will just cash out their HBD to fiat currency HBD -> HIVE -> USD.

They are already doing that, so what is the difference? They are just doing it slowly now on a month to month basis

They are already doing that, so what is the difference? They are just doing it slowly now on a month to month basis

Not really, from what I've seen liquid HBD seems to be in decline. If they were removing HBD from savings each month, wouldn't liquid HBD be going up?

If liquid HBD is in decline, is that because people put into the savings account? Convert it to Hive or pull it out of Hive??

Data suggests, they are put into the saving account since savings and accounts that hold HBD savings are growing.

There has been only 1 million HBD getting converted this month so far, but I believe that data includes conversions done by the stabilizer.

Do they cash out ALL of their HBD in their savings now on a month to month basis?

Even if they do, it still holds my concern that the assumption is not correct. Assumption that they would put their HBD into HIVE then power up to HP.

Ohh, ye everything is quess-work. We have no data on what would happen :D

or not

Or not to people holding less hp or to governace?
Or to lowering the hbd??

Such a nothing answer xD

Lowering the HBD Apr might people to stake more HP and join in the Governace :D

When you use the word "might" you are saying to yourself that chances are "governance" won't be impacted either.
It is only a possible remote benefit.
We have a visibility problem, the experiment of having 20% APR has not worked because we are not visible (THERE IS NO MARKETING) but it has not harmed the HIVE Blockchain economy either.
Everyone is speculating about something that "could" happen but doesn't and I doubt that anything will happen but, going back to the topic, why can 15% be better than 20%? And why not 0%... everything seems very arbitrary to me, really.

Ofcause I use might because we don't know yet, we don't have any data.

0% APR might also be better, but again we don't have any data on that either.

We know none of these things :D
We don't know what will happen if we continue to have HBD at 20% either.
It is all guess work :D

I don't know if it will me more governace or not. No clue :D

hahahah!😂
ok! so you are aligned with my opinion too.
Look, I have lived myself many changes (I'm here since 2017) and my experience has not been so good every time someone decides to change parameters that work well.
If the intention is not to exceed the debt limit of 30% then we still have a lot of margin!

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or am I wrong @dalz ?

I also don't understand why 15% is better than 20%.

We can also be objective and say... Why 20% is better than 15%? 🙂

Witnesses bad! They coordinate following one guy creating centralization!

lol yeah I was seeing a lot of this.

"We should have town hall discussions about these things and talk about them first."

Like lol what do they think is happening like right now?
People are funny.

15% sounds reasonable and lucrative as well if the chain can afford.

HBD faizinin bir şekilde %10' a düşürülmesi ya da en azından %15' e düşürülmesi gibi bir fikriniz varmı Tanıklar olarak? 😀
Ayrıca daha önce birkaç gönderide HBD faizinin yüksek olmasından dolayı Hive fiyatının yükselmediğinden bahsediyorlardı. Senin yazdıklarını okuyunca şimdi kafam daha çok karıştı.

Ben normalde 10-12% civarini daha uygun buluyorum, fakat bir kac kisi 15% istiyor, bi kac kisi 20% istiyor, karisik bir durum.

I'm in the middle of a powerdown to stake HBD. With all this discussion, I'm not buying anymore hbd, but since I also had a life changing year and don't have as much time to contribute to Hive, I guess I'll have to consider pulling my hive stake all together as I have gotten out of most low cap tokens.

Currently outside of Hive, Leo and Koin, I'm in Bitcoin and ETH, but not really seeing what the future holds for Hive even when Bull season returns, we aren't promoting, we aren't encouraging development and now we aren't paying interest, as a user I was fine with all that, but as an inactive investor, I'm too unsure about the future of the project and where it is heading.

I personally do not think that the interest rate should be a parameter set by the witnesses. The blockchain itself should determine what the interest rate should be based on the debt level.

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