Lately I have been seeing discussions pop up related to the floor rental price of SPS. The current interface mechanisms built by the team don't allow for renters to set their price and we're seeing more of them begin to use automation to fill bids at targeted prices. Also, many community members seem to feel that the 0.001 DEC floor is too low and could be devaluing SPS.
I figured this is a good opportunity to run a multiple choice poll and see where stake lands on this issue. Do we want to change anything? Do we want a higher floor price? What should the floor price be? I will put multiple options for a higher floor price, but I think it would make sense on some level to look at any vote for an increased floor price in aggregate.
Thanks for your time and feedback!
I think there is a better solution to raising the floor to 0.002, but it would take DEV input and work. I will vote for raising to 0.002 as that's the best alternative at this time imo.
So put another way, I think we can end up with a much better solution down the road, I think for NOW its good if we move it to .002 and keep the market liquid - since imo that is where the vast majority of rentals are taking place anyways.
Yea I think the SPS rental market very much suffers from the MVP development model. Third party services are more or less required at this point without very active management.
yes I agree. That's why I support this to have a floor, so that we give them time to make it a much more dynamic system.
Also increase the BURN FEE of DEC from 2% to 10% this is very important
I prefer to let market pricing dictate price rather than for a floor. I would support another decimal .0015 to be added for all rental tiers. Rental is not the only choice for SPS holders, they can stake with DEC, Colony or swap.hive there are other options for SPS returns. We should not be forcing market prices.
SPS has been on an upward trend for a while now, and NOW you guys want to change things? Smart move, I say.
I already posted my thoughts on Discord, but I guess not everyone reads that, so here it goes again:
This is a BIG mistake. If anything like this passes, the SPS price is going to drop, or at the very least, it won’t increase as it should.
Why do I say this? It's actually pretty simple.
In any market, the price of an asset (whether it's a rental price or a sale price) is driven by supply and demand.
The demand is driven by people using SPS because of its utility. We want SPS to have more and more utility so that the same people want more and more SPS.
By doing ANYTHING that hinders or diminishes that utility, all you will accomplish is actually decreasing the demand for the asset.
You decrease the demand for the asset simply because you increase the cost of it. Think about any kind of the game for example Eloise. How many of us want that card? Many right? But how many of us will actually buy it? No that many because even tho is the best card in the game its price its pretty high. For a card like Eloise thats fine because the supply is really low but for any asset with really high supply that doesnt make sense at all.
If you double the floor price, you won't increase the demand for the asset (the total amount of SPS needed for ranked will be the same), nor will you decrease the supply. All you'll accomplish is reducing the token's utility.
Less utility = lower price. It's as simple as that. Thanks to this sps is going to drop.
Bring in more demand for SPS. Let the markets market.. :-)
I’m not sure why we should intervene in the market. I personally don’t use any bots, but it seems like a simple matter of demand. There just isn’t enough SPS to go around. A few months back, there were bids at 0.002, not because of bots, but because demand was high enough to support it. If providers don’t have SPS to rent out, the rental price will naturally rise on its own. I think the team’s time would be better spent on other things, as this issue will likely balance itself out. Am I missing something here?
I don't think you are missing anything. I have the exact same thoughts. If we don't see a spike in the demand for SPS in the next 6-8 months that would just mean that we failed to bring new people in.
we already intervene in the market because the market can't see who wants to rent out their at .002.
The only people shown are the people that can't get filled, so I'm for improving the ability for the market to find a good equilibrium, but since that will take dev time and agreement to provide a 2 sided market, then this is the next best thing.
Yes, I agree with you.
Let the market adjust the price when there are enough demands.
Raising the minimum prices will reduce the number of active players
I think that's fair. As someone that doesn't do rentals (or particularly care for them at all honestly), my understanding of the situation is that the automated services essentially snipe anything above a 0.001 bid and that leads to an illiquid market where people are waiting and praying someone will fill a 0.001 bid (like all the others that are sitting there) and don't understand why it's not happening. The people not using automated services feel like there's no way to compete with them and either have to choose to rent out at 0.001 or not at all. You'd probably get a more nuanced discussion on this topic from people actively involved in the SPS rental market.
I've been insta-renting 150,000 at 0.002 for months. If people want to get SPS fast then they should pay more. All those sitting there waiting their bids to get filled at 0.001 for days/weeks/months obviously don't really need the SPS that much.. :)
you're looking at it only from the renter standpoint.
There's a cost to people using automation and getting a 2x return over those that don't. That cost could be argued to be very big if it results in people not wanting to own the underlying assets.
I know I really hate that I either have to use automation or accept 50% less in return. Honestly even I consider whether its worth even owning the SPS with that kind of disadvantage accruing to those using the botted methods. In the long run I'm very aware of the impact this will have, so its a negative thought that I think is silly that we even let be an issue when there are far better ways to accomplish fairness, transparency, liquidity, and a good user experience.
Oh, I don't care either way. As I said, I'm already renting it at 0.002 (btw last couple of weeks it's been insta-filled by Vugtis so I guess he's found a way to automate the process, which is understandable with the amount of SPS he has). I actually gain just 1X when renting over the multiplier I get by holding 360K SPS, so if the floor is set at more than 0.002 I'll just stop renting. :)
yes I understand that. And I'm not blaming anyone either btw, everyone is doing the best they can with the rules as they are.
voted for .003 but happy for anything that would potentially put us back on some sort of equal terms with those who can code up a bot.
Man, I’m torn on this. In one hand I see how it could overall be beneficial. I also hate the idea of trying to fix the number as I think it’ll work itself out over time. Gotta do a little more thinking on this.
Personally I think 3rd party devs have already 'solved the problem' but I don't rent anything anyway so I guess it is what it is.
Yeah, I don’t they either in or out, so I haven’t been following all of this as closely as I probably should.
And this is what the road from capitalism to socialism looks like. Price should always be a question of supply and demand. Not a cartel agreement.
I personally think that we should just leave it. I don't really like artificially raising the floor. I'm a big believer of "Let the markets market"
0.002 is not much its not even the 1/fourth of SPS price
why not if we set it to 1/4 of the SPS market Price.. for example current Price of $SPS 0.00912÷4= 0.00228 that will be 0.00228 .. when the SPS price go up the Rental market price go up with it if it come down it will come down with this we dont have to do changes again and again
if we set fixed 0.002 then if SPS reach 0.03 or more then we have to change it again which will need dev time and resources so why not fix it in one go
And also not forget to increase the BURN FEE of DEC from 2% to 10%
Renting should be temporary and painful IMO I think a raise to the floor is a nice compromise to just removing sps rental/delegation
I also wouldnt mind seeing a pause in SPS rentals until it can be returned automatically to the owner after the 7 days instead of manually having to do it. IMO nobody should be getting extra days of SPS delegation because the owner is busy or forgets.
If I'm thinking right, this is similar to a minimum wage law but sort of in reverse. It would change from the current situation(no minimum wage) where every SPS owner who cares to rent out their SPS can get a renter(employer) but at a lower price, to a system where every SPS owner who wants to rent it out has to wait in line for a wanna be renter at the artificially higher price.
So instead of dirt cheap SPS rentals we would likely end up with a glut of SPS for rent with few people willing to rent it. But maybe with a slight increase to say the 0.002 or 0.003 option we might be able to thread the needle and find the sweet spot of plenty of rentors and plenty of rentees.
I would love it if the system changed to where people put up their SPS for rent and renters come rent it out, and then it auto undelegates after 7 days. Instead of the way it works now where you have to manually find a renter and manually undelegate.
I'm all for a system where true price discovery happens, and auto-undelegating happens. Plus I'd like people to stand in line based on when they showed up and not cut in front for some ridiculously low amount of money.
This is more a question of demand than anything else. I'm somewhat confident, that this is going to fix itself once (and if) more players come in that need SPS.
I don't think it hurts to increase the floor, though, so why not go wit 0.002 for now.
I'm not sure just forcing people to do a min is the best option but I mean I want some DEC for my SPS so lol
Thanks for sharing! - @azircon
The floor absolutely needs to change, it’s much too low at the moment. The way it’s now gives a perverse incentive to renting SPS vs (the preferable) ownership. If we’re worried about scaring away lower leagues and starting players, we might think about the DAO renting small amounts for a lower minimum (for example max 1000 sps per user ign, for 0.002), while larger amounts can be rented out by players at a higher rate (with a minimum of .005?).
!PIZZA
$PIZZA slices delivered:
@danzocal(7/10) tipped @clayboyn
0.003
I think 0.002 is a better value.
Intervene in the market without significant increase in players.
It will only reduce the liquidity of the battle and even cause player to quit the game.
If there is a large increase in players, then orders with bids of 0.003~0.005 will appear in large numbers.
Before you do this... can someone please show how they make a profit in wild when they would have to rent the SPS instead of owning it? - Cause I know it´s absolutely impossible to make any kind of profit if youre the one renting the SPS at 0.003. This is dumb!
There you are with a poll.
I love to have a poll before making any draft proposal.
That helps us make a good proposal and can move forward with it
I like polls, I just think we need to get them on-site for more visibility. As is we're not getting enough participation. It's a decent sample size though I suppose. Definitely better than nothing.
Absolutely!
Voting to get more for what I have, that's how I see it. When will we vote to distribute what the DAO has among the SPS owners? 🤦🏻♂️
I'm fine with increases