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RE: HBD APR

in #hbd3 months ago

I will have to disagree to some extent and i was quite sad when i saw that 15% to tell you the truth. This conversation has been done so many times already and after a certain point, i think some people actually ignore arguments. I remember some of the arguments being about Hive losing money, the value with a drop, lack of marketing etc. I remember so many posts and comments stating that isn't the case.

I will only agree to the lack of marketing and that to some extent as well. Currently we face another crypto bear especially in Hive that dropped below 20 cents. A stable coin offering a certain amount (20%) was something that gave a lot of people hope and they also had their plans. I consider it as literally the worst time to initiate any drop in that 20% APR. It will once again have only a negative impact on Hive.

Also from my perspective and point of view and as someone who knows a thing or two about marketing and finance i would consider the DFH a huge issue instead of the 20% APR. Literally, people are stealing money daily and taking advantage of the rest of us. We are talking about volumes of Hive and money greater than what the HBD APR offers. There have also been countless talks about that and i haven't seen anything yet. Anyone who either knows a person or two with a lot of power in here or who is a bit lucky can literally start earning huge amounts of money with no control or consequences.

Also, fun fact, i remember a couple months ago a huge talk about HBD and lowering the APR. Over 100 people made a comment and i checked every single one of them and their wallets. Out of those that were pro lowering the APR, not a single one had any HBD in savings. At the same time though the people that were pro 20% APR, 90% of them had both Hive staked and HBD in their savings. Anyone can make their own conclusions regarding that ;)

Finally, 2 days ago, I talked with a good friend of mine that I have been trying to bring over to Hive for some years now but he prefers to have a certain amount staked and earn a 3% APR in dollars. When i told him about our 20% APR he seemed excited. I explained the whole process to buy/sell hive convert to HBD etc etc and was quite skeptical but said he would give it a go. Then he saw that the APR changed to 15% and even though it's still way better than what he earns he said that he would pass. The reason was that there was no stability here. He literally said I have certain plans with my money at certain times, at least here i know that i will earn 3% for certain. How do I know that the next day, someone will decide to decrease the 15% to 1% or even 0. No matter what argument i tried it won't change the outcome.

A lot of people like Hive but we get to see a tendency for most of them to leave and or be absent for a while (like me). Besides one of the main reasons that most decide to drop out and move is the earnings, a lot of others that stay for a while or a here for a while longer get to see the constant exploitation of Hive for the sake of self-benefit, like with the DFH for instance and are simply tired and give up.

Now i don't know if what i said matters even a bit, as from what we've seen from many conversations and many arguments over HBD, DHF, Marketing, and any big-time thing in here something that will make Hive look worse and lose its value will happen at the end of the day. This isn't a rant or something that's intended for you, you know that I really admire your work here and I hope the game is successful. I am simply sharing my views, some of which are opposite to yours but mainly highlight other big issues that actually should have been priority in my eyes instead of this.

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It’s unbelievable the lack of arguments they have in order to decide that 20% is too high.
I fully agree with everything you have written here.
20% is an incentive for the people who still remain here, saving both, HIVE and HBD instead of spending them

I agree with you as well! It's quite tiresome to keep on talking about the same and same thing like there aren't any actual issues going on.

Eventually, that money will leave. Right?

The growth of HBD in savings has been quite stagnant as far as I can tell, not counting HBD created from the APR, even the top account is only selling the earnings now. I realize not all coins are doing well but the general market is not too bad which begs the question why close to no people, both people on hive and outside aren't taking any profits and bringing
their BTC/ETH/SOL earnings over to HBD. The proof is in the stats, even though they may be up with the mentioned coins and whatever memecoins u may have, they aren't picking HBD even at 20% APR, so what makes you think they might do so later?

I haven't looked at the data of powered up hive lately in comparison, maybe that's probably equally as low or non-existent but I don't think keeping it that high will change anything.

It feels like it failed to garner more value at some point, the conversion are quite flaky and you can't move too much at once and right now it just feels like something people already on Hive would like to have just because it feels nice to earn a predictable amount in fiat compared to HP without caring where that value is coming from.

I will reply to both of the comments in this one. I actually think that there are multiple factors that it seems that the HBD feels stagnant which i have a bit of a different opinion. If you check the number of savings accounts that exist we get to see that we reach a peak when Hive is doing great like for example in March we had 3285 accounts while currently the past months they dropped and constant talks about lowering the APR the savings accounts dropped from 2900 in June to 2838 in July and most probably will drop more in August and September. At the same time like it happened again in the past, it is a great opportunity for some to buy Hive cheap and then sell it for HBD when the price increases. That won't change even if the APR goes to 10% or lower. In other words that's a perspective and one of the different reasons why the savings accounts feel stagnant or drop. Note that last july we had a pump and the accounts were around 3000 at the time but comparing it with July 2022 when we again had a pump (which means increased accounts again) there were 2440 accounts. Currently in a gray period for hive we have seen a 16% in savings accounts since 2 years ago which is something. (ofc we don't know if some of these accounts are bots, communities etc etc).

Now regarding the link and the supply that has been going down lately, it's literally as stated in the first sentence of that post, due to the drop in price of Hive. The price dropped, people sold their HBD and bought more Hive, also the stabilizer bought some HBD. It would be great as you perfectly said, to see a comparison of how much hive powered up at the same time.

The reduction according to the stats is 0.7 million excluding the DHF. In general, the let's say interest per year that the current savings account is generating is around 1 million dollars HBD. At the same time yearly we spend, invest, name it as you wish close to 6 million HBD.

The conversation is basically about what's the point of having it at 20% while a few people or non are joining as a result of it and at the same time the supply is going down. I would say instead to argue about that amount, which attracts some people in my mind, provides them with some stability in the Hive ecosystem, or even acts as a complimentary benefit to someone that got into Hive another way, let's focus on the DHF first. Let people having the above, realise how many people are taking advantage of Hive and the HBD through the DHF if we sort these funds out i don't think 20% APR or even more would be an issue.

and right now it just feels like something people already on Hive would like to have just because it feels nice to earn a predictable amount in fiat compared to HP without caring where that value is coming from.

I can understand how you feel, especially since you have given so much to Hive and everyone in here and even though i haven't given even a 5% of what you have, i am here since the beginning as well so i have seen stuff :p People though don't care where the value is coming from and i am not talking in regards to hive, that applies to every crypto and mostly everything in general as well. In terms of value, a lot of people prefer some form of stability over constant risks and HBD provides that in my opinion. I will agree with the "can't move too much at once" opinion though!

I think i wrote a lot again and it may be tiresome. In any case, i don't see Hive going in a "good" and "healthy" direction, there are other areas that we need to focus, but i hope i am totally wrong. In any case, I am here for the long run! Have a great weekend and thanks for writing about a controversial topic like that, not many would do so!

a lot of others that stay for a while or a here for a while longer get to see the constant exploitation of Hive for the sake of self-benefit, like with the DFH for instance

Or that egregious 20% HBD APR