Mendel's Rules

in #garden3 months ago

I recently bought cannabis seeds, which are now perfectly legal in Germany.
I looked at strains and genetics and the ignorance of the cannabis crowd is annoying me.

There are some ridiculous myths and misconceptions.

In the following, I'll try to exlain, what P, F1, F2, hybrids, phenotypes, genotypes are and how feminised seeds (XX chromosomes) work.

This was part of the German school curriculum and I learned this stuff in 8th grade.
Yet, nowhere - from the seed ctatalogues to canna-youtube - nobody gets it right.

Mendel

wiki

Apparently, this dude Mendel found all this out as late as 1865.
My 2 cents: man have domesticated plants and animals for a long time and I am sure selective breeding was invented many times...

Mendel bred peas and by pure observation discovered these priciples.
In the following, I'll try to explain in my own words (and pictures), how it works.

Intermediary Inheritance

I don't even know if the term 'intermediary' is correct. Googling doesn't work all that well (in English).

Instead of peas, I will use flowers to explain.
Let's say: Mendel had 2 flowers of the same species, but in different color.

These are the parents, or the parential generation in the following called P.

flowers.png

One is red, one is yellow.
They come from a variety (strain) that breeds true; the red flowers will always have red offspring, the yellow flowers will always have yellow offspring.

Let's assume, Mendel tried this a few times:

He took 2 red parents (P), cross-pollinated them, harvested the seeds, grew them to flower and received red flowers again.

These children of a P crossing, we will call 'F' for filial generation.

flowers2.png

If you took these seeds of the first filial generation (F1) and bred them again with each other and create a second filial generation (F2), you would receive the same result: red flowers.

If the seeds breed true like that, we will call them homozygous.

Homozygous vs Heterozygous

Mendel took a homozygous red flower and cross-pollinated it with a homozygous yellow flower.

flowers2.png

All offspring was orange.

I took orange as the middle between red and yellow.

If a trait expresses itself and inherits like that from the parents (P) to the children (F), where the mix of two traits meets in the middle, we call that intermediary inheritance.
There is a different type of inheritance, which I will get to later.

Eureka

Mendel took two flowers of that orange F1 generation and bred it again with each other, creating a second filial generation (F2).

This is where it gets interesting. This is where Mendel's accomplishment lies.

flowers2.png

Mendel observed that the offspring of a true F1 (under intermediary inheritance) will display the traits of the P generation as well as the F1 generation under very specific distibution.
In our case this means:

25% red, 50% orange, 25% yellow.

Mendel observed this oddly specific distribution and came to the conclusion, that every genetic trait must somehow be present in the plant twice.

Let's say all genetic information comes in pairs.
A single information we call an allele.
During pollination, the child gets one allele from each parent and ends up with a full set of two complimentary alleles again.

In case of the red flower, it has two alleles for 'red' and so the child always inherits one allele 'red'. Same for 'yellow'.

There are 4 possible combinations, but they always end up 'red', 'yellow'.

flower3.png

In case of breeding one F1 with another, we get Mendel's distribution.
A parent can provide either a 'red' or a 'yelllow' allele, each.

flower3.png

Mendel assumed this, because it was the most plausible explanation for what he observed. Today we got better technology and could observe that his conclusions are basically true. I am sure you have somwhere seen the double-helix DNA illustration...

Phenotype vs Genotype

or

Intermediary vs Dominant/Recessive

In case of red and yellow, I assumed an intermediary type of inheritance.
There is another type.

Let's assume 'blue' flowers was a dominant trait.
If there is a 'blue' allele, it dominates over 'red' - the 'red' allele gets ignored.

If a homozigous 'blue' flower pollinates a homozigoues 'red' flower (P), their offspring (F1) will have the genetic information 'blue' and 'red'. We call that the genotype.
Since the 'blue' trait is dominant, all flowers express 'blue' flowers, though. We call that the phenotype.

flower3.png

This means a plant can express a certain trait, but have 'hidden' information for another.
This will not matter during the plant's life, but it can pass on this recessive trait to further generations.

In our case of the imaginary flowers, this means two blue flowers (F1) have a 25% chance of having a red child (F2).

flower3.png

Final Additions

  • In observed nature, things are not as simple as 'red' and 'yellow'.
    Things are far more complicated; Genes work in sets, certain genetics need triggers to express, during every interbreeding random mutations can occur, mitochondrial (RNA) that gets passed on only by the mother, there are things like epigenetics, etc...
  • To stabilize a genetic trait in a strain, you need to first crossbreed the targeted trait into your genetic and then selectively breed again with a parent (P) in basically an incest geneline.
    Incest over generations leads to bad genetics - a population needs variety, otherwise problems can occur.
    Stabilizing a trait and creating homozygous seeds (true P) is a huge challenge and needs many generations and selection.
  • DNA is 'organized' in sets. These are called chromosomes. In species that have male and female, gender gets determined by the Y and X chromosomes, respectively.
    Females have two X chromosomes. Males have X and Y.
    In 'feminized' seeds -this is a thing with cannabis- there are only X chromosomes.
    This gets achieved by forcing a female plant to express male flowers and pollinate (itself?).
  • F1 seeds are 'special'. First of all, they are all homogenous in genotype and phenotype. But also: being a fresh crossbreed of two incest lines, makes them unusually strong and robust. Outside of the cannabis bubble, these are called hybrids. Hybrids can have high yields and exceed their parents.
    A lot (most?) of commercial field crop is grown from F1 seeds.
  • F2 seeds are generally not desirable. They are a 'mixed bag' (quite literally) and can express all different traits of their parents and grandparents in an unpredictable (wild) mix.

Cannabis Specific

I am not sure, what seedbanks actually provide (F1 or homozygous). Or their product descriptions are weird.
With seedbanks for regular vegetables it's 50/50 - some provide good descriptions and I found providers for homozygous seeds (heirloom).

I also don't quite understand how people claim hermaphrodites (in cannabis this usually refers to the undesirable female plant that expresses male genetics and risks pollinating your cannabis flowers) were a genetic problem, generally; All 'feminized' seeds are the offspring of hermaphrodites...
I understand that for a female to express male flowers is an undesirable trait in cannabis strains. Forcing a plant to do that (ususally with collodial silver), however, should have no direct influence on the genome. Likewise, a random male flower on a plant could be from a whole host of factors and does not have to be genetically hardwired.
I hear that genetic degredation from incest will lead to a genetic disposition to go hermi. If I am correct and feminized seeds are from (self-pollination even?) inbred lines, then wouldn't 'feminized' seeds have a higher tendency to do it as well?

I think the cannabis scene is driven by marketing.
Good seeds are a thing, but if the people involved in it almost without fail can't even explain Mendel's rules without fucking up completely, I have doubts.
I mean, nobody even uses the word 'phenotype' correctly.

Sort:  

Greetings @felixxx ,

Thank you for the explanation and illustrations.

In the flower and vegetable seed categories....it is recommended to buy Heirloom Seeds...so it makes sense to buy Heirloom Seeds in other categories as well.

It does seem complicated...and I am amazed at your ability to explain it in one post. ^__^

Kind Regards,

Bleujay

it is recommended to buy Heirloom Seeds

I tested heirloom sweetcorn vs. super-productive hybrid seeds as an experiment, once.
The hybrid was better in every way.

It's important that heirlooms exist and people work with it, but for good yields, I'll go with hybrids, if I can.

Thank you for your kind reply @felixxx .

Definitely worth experimenting the idea....I shall give it a go as well for my assortment of salad greens.

One thing you will see a lot of in the cannabis space is 'bro science'. So much misinformation, and myths are around. Perhaps due to the illegality of it, and the people who are educated with all this info most likely went to work in legal industries, while it was left to outlaws to grow. This also led to people breeding for THC levels rather than the other components that make the flower so special.

Thankfully it is all changing, but this also means the market is flooded with so many shady people only in it to make a buck. You just have to weed out all the bad to find the good.

Here are a few a companies I recommend. Not sure if you can get them over there, but it is worth trying

Seed Junky

Humbolt Seed Company

Exotic Genetix

Also about the FEM seed, what you say is 100% correct, and is the bad way to create FEM seed. The best way to make FEM seed is with Colloidal Silver. Although as legend goes, some of the greatest strains out there where made on accident from herms, like Girl Scout Cookies, and GG4, but I would not practice breeding by chance, lol

Also about the FEM seed, what you say is 100% correct, and is the bad way to create FEM seed. The best way to make FEM seed is with Colloidal Silver.

What bad way? I mentioned colloidal silver. (I misspelled it, though)

Sorry I overlooked that. The bad way will be stressing a plant out during flower while flowing, such as interrupting the dark cycle , or other stresses which is usually caused unintentionally.

As for the bro science in the cannabis scene: It's partially due to being illegal for so long, of course. The modern myths and misconceptions are because of economic interests, I believe.

There isn't much money to be made with a plant that grows so easily. The special fertilizer, special pots, special lamps (thank god I can grow legally on my balcony now and use sunlight) are all unnecessary, expecially now that it is legal.

Also, I doubt that they can create really true strains in these facilities in the Netherlands (that's where I have to order from).

I believe they:
Crossbreed some material, grow a bunch of specimen and take a cutting from each.
Then they bring the plants to flower, harvest, select the best specimen, go back to the earlier taken cuttings and use the clone of the best plants to get the colloidal silver treatment and then sell that stuff as a 'strain'.

From what I see, people get huge variety just from seeds out of the same bag.
And then they 'select for the best phenotype'.
What a joke.

I agree. So much seeds are released , without proper testing, and stabilization. I’m curious are you able to get clones?

Probably, yes.

The 'legalization' here has quite strict limitations for now.
I can only have 3 plants and 50g dried flowers - however that's supposed to work...
Under my special circumstances it's best to use small automatics on my balcony. (I also don't want to annoy my neighbors too much)

I take it as a challenge. Also that way I can get more harvests and get experience quicker, maybe.

I used to have a decent indoor setup, but now I do t have the room and forces to also grow autos. That’s on my @jonyoudyer account. Not doing so well though, still figuring out autos myself:)

Brain Burning ✅💪🏻

Curious about HivePakistan? Join us on Discord!

Delegate your HP to the Hivepakistan account and earn 90% of curation rewards in liquid hive!

50 HP
100 HP
200 HP
500 HP (Supporter Badge)
1000 HP
Follow our Curation Trail and don't miss voting!


Curated by dlmmqb

Even though I learned this in elementary school, I forgot everything.
I have a friend, he is involved in the development of new varieties of soybean seeds, when he starts telling us what he does, we get a headache 🙂
Luckily, we're meeting for a beer, so we'll quickly slip away from the story about genetic material 😄

!WEED

I turned that bot off last night :D
It's in repair...

I hope he broke down not for long
!LOLZ

Comic Sans walks into a pub
The bartender shouts Geto out of my pub! We don’t serve your type!

Credit: ifiwasfrank
@felixxx, I sent you an $LOLZ on behalf of iceledy

(2/8)

PLAY & EARN $DOOM