Hey @theferalone.
It's nice that you took the time to research this. However, I must debunk some of your points, them being simply untrue.
Being a vegetarian to prevent killing of animals is the same as eating less meat to do the same - animal agriculture is animal agriculture and killing is (almost) always a part of it. To produce milk the cow needs to be fertilized which means you'll have a lot of calves. Males and females are born in a 50-50% ratio - what are you going to do with the males? Similar can be applied to birds aswell - you need to breed them to eat them, and chickens for example, require much more females to satisfy the sexual needs of the males - you're gonna have to kill.
Growing grain to feed livestock for meat is totally pointless, you're on point there - but so is growing grain to feed livestock for milk/eggs or whatever.
Moderation is a fallacy altogather. Check out this Greger's video.
Here's another one on fish.
Aaaand here's another one on phytates.
There are plenty of very strong reasons to go vegan - and all counterarguments are, in fact, excuses.
In the health aspect, it is completely superior - no other diet decreases chronic disease risk so much.
In the ethical aspect it is completely obvious - you cannot be ethical and go around killing sentient living beings that have been proven to feel pain.
In the ecological aspect, land use reduction and greenhouse gas emission reduction is, again, superior.
Don't be such an apologist. Become an ethical vegan, look at what Greger is telling you and you'll find yourself having very firm points.
Btw, followed you for the permaculture (and the possibility of you becoming a real vegan) ;)
Im totally agreeing with you. Im a happy Vegan! 😁
I am not sure if I agree that veganism is completely superior from a health aspect. I think it depends on the individual. Many (most?) people can go vegan and feel great if they make an effort to find alternate sources of protein, etc. Humans evolved as carnivores over millennia; I would be surprised if evolution would select for such a costly trait unless it was providing some health benefit for that particular species.
One friend of mine had a terrible paradox. She had recently taken precepts as part of converting to Zen Buddhism and her personal interpretation was that she should become a vegan to facilitate this.
After about 18 months, she had to quit and go back to a diet with meat and dairy because her health was deteriorating visibly and rapidly. She spoke with her teacher (and doctor) about this at great length and the teacher told her that while it is noble to become a vegan to reduce suffering in the world, one should not try to reduce suffering in ways that increase your own suffering. She tried all sorts of ways to stay vegan including tons of supplements, careful nutrition, and so on. For whatever reason, her body does not function well in a vegan state. I think this is the exception rather than the rule, but people with absorption problems, etc. need to be more careful when switching to a vegan diet.
Again, a fallacy. Our bodies did NOT evolve to become carnivore, but herbivore (fruit, veggie, nut and grain eating herbivore). To support my claim, I offer to you to watch these three videos.
About your friend, it's just an anecdote with absolutely no proof. Studies on thousands of people are obviously true, while your friend's story might as well be just a story.
People with absorption problems need to be careful following ANY diet!
Life isn't always as cut and dry as we like it to be. Every body is different, what may work for one can be harmful for another. My wife and I have very different needs, she doesn't do well with a lot of nuts, I can drop a mason jar and feel great. Thank you for sharing.
I would totally agree that there are plenty of strong reasons to go vegan. But there are some assumptions you are jumping to that were outside of the scope of my article.
I listed very little data on dairy for a reason, there's no outstanding data that says they are nutritionally, economically, and ecologically unsound in moderation. Without the data to match the fervor, it's hard to stand so firmly on an ideology.
Ethically with dairy, you have somewhat of a point. But these ethical issues scale with the size of the farm.
I had my own flock of chickens for a few years. I got my initial flock from a local guy who bred all of his chickens and kept the roosters. They ate only our kitchen scraps and what they could forage for most of the year. They also provided extra fertilizer for the garden. I did end up buying more from an online breeder, and yes, they culled the males. But maybe 15 baby chicks in total. For 5 + years of egg production, that's 1 bird death for every 1216 eggs. I would think a cat would kill more birds in that time it takes to consume those eggs.
Small scale organic grass fed dairy farmers usually take great care of their animals, and if they do cull one, every part of the animal is used for some purpose. Milk farming doesn't have to be unethical, it just is to maximize prophets in most cases.
Maybe one day I'll be a vegan. I have nothing against the diet. But the sensationalism needs to calm down a bit with the community. I left religion for a reason. Anyone eating less meat is doing better for their bodies and the environment. Everyone can choose what that looks like for them.
Thanks for the follow and hopefully we can continue the conversation in the future :D
Heey, milk causes cancer and that's not enough?
About the chickens, 15 killed chickens is still 15 sentient life taken away for absolutely no reason. As I have said, being a vegetarian is like eating less meat. In this case, a lot less meat.
Yea, it looks like you're into the "personal choice" now... And you know, the animal has no choice, right?
Connecting veganism to religion is like connecting people that were against black slavery to religion. It's not a religion, mkay?
It's a rights movement.
We need to give all sentient beings a right to live, to be free, and NOT to be abused.
One way to do that obviously - becoming an ethical vegan.
I would appreciate for you to post studies as the sources instead of videos. A simple link will do. I am comparing proselytizing veganism to religion because they both are based on dogma and extremism. We’re on the same side, yet you seem to be trying to force your brand of thinking on everyone else. I don’t think that’s an affective method of bringing about change.
The video is full of studies you can bring out of it. I'm not going to do that for you. Lemme rephrase it - it's not dogma, it's not extremism, extreme is the one killing the pig and raping the cow. Bye bye