Do you know where your DAO-C is?

I just got off the phone with a friend and we ended up talking about the White Hat / ETC shitstorm that has erupted over the past few days. I made the comment that it seems like the overwhelming response from DTHs has been “just give us our ETC like you did and we’ll figure it out.” They want a big red button. In my view, that was reasonable. As he was quick to explain, it’s not that easy. A withdraw ETC contract simply will not work.

Do you know where your DAO-C is?

How much do you have? What happened to it when you withdrew from the ETH Withdraw contract? When you withdrew your DAO from an exchange after the HF, did they send you DAO-C?

• There are no tools to view DAO-C.
• DAO-C actually has no value as this time, cannot be traded, cannot be viewed, and so on.
• Exchanges have hoards of DAO-C. A withdraw contract would mean that they win, and the DTH’s lose.
• The DAO-C contract is still super confused about how much it has. Remember, that chain is like the HF never happened. That contract and subsequent tokens are still completely screwed up.
• If the White Hats want to distribute it fairly to the DTHs — the first question is: who are the DTHs?
• I’m not the sharpest tool and have no interest in trading. If I was able to come to this conclusion, some whale holding is already holding all the DAO-C for hoping this would happen.

It would not be fair (IMO) to set up a contract based on current, literal DAO-C Token Holders. Based on the last post by the White Hats and the fact that they have not done this already, they have already realized this.

What happens if you withdraw from the hypothetical DAO-C Withdraw Contract?

I’m making a huge assumption and saying that using the DAO Withdraw Contract did not affect your DAO-C tokens. I do not know if this is true or not.

If you had 100 DAO tokens at the time of the hard fork and the only action you took was to use the ETH Withdraw Contract...

• You have 0 DAO Tokens
• 1 ETH
• 100 DAO-C
• 0 ETC

In order to use the totally hypothetical and unfeasible ETH-C Withdraw contract you would need to send a small amount of ETC to your account and then withdraw. Now you have:

• 0 DAO / 0 DAO-C
• 1 ETH
• 0.70001 ETC (whatever the equivalent value is + leftover gas, it won’t be 1 ETC but who knows what it'll actually be.)

Looks alright, right? But what if you sent your ETH to an exchange after you withdrew? What if you sent it to your friend for a pair of shoes? What if you…whatever. This is what would happen in that situation:

• You withdrew your ETH for DAO — (1 ETH, 0 DAO, 0 ETC, 100 DAO-C)
• You sent 0.6 ETH to MyEtherWallet’s donation address because you are an amazing person & loved the big red button — (0.4 ETH, 0 DAO, 0 ETC, 100 DAO-C).
• You did the above using a standard transaction because you didn’t have any ETC in that account so there was nothing to replay.
• Two weeks later….
• You send a small amount of ETC for gas. — (0.4 ETH, 0 DAO, 0.001 ETC, 100 DAO-C).
• You use the Withdraw ETC contract. — (0.4 ETH, 0 DAO, 0.70001 ETC, 0 DAO-C).
• Your transaction that wasn’t replayed earlier due to the fact that you didn’t have any ETC in your account at the time. But now you have ETC! So, that earlier transaction of 0.6 ETH will now be replayed and you will send 0.6 ETC to MyEtherWallet. Which is awesome, except it wasn’t your choice to do so. And you can’t do anything about it.
• You have 0.4 ETH, 0 DAO, 0.1 ETC, 0 DAO-C.

Not so good right?

The above are two very simple outlines of possible situations people’s accounts are in. However, the reality is most people’s accounts are much more complex. There has been ETH in and ETH out. They may have had ETH and ETC in the account before they used the Withdraw contract. There have been transactions to contracts, via ReplaySafeSplit contract. People have received from exchanges and sent to exchanges. People have sent to themselves. People have sent in exchange for goods or services or donations or whatever.

I don’t know. This is a fucking mess. I’d appreciate comments on my above assumptions and why they are wrong. I’d appreciate a more technical, problem/solution-based discussion rather than more rhetoric and drama and arguments. I'd like to live in a world where we assume the best solution is the one where the DAO Token Holder's win.

What would your proposed solution be? How do you distribute a buttload of money on a chain that no one expected to exist in a fair manner?